Monty

From my limited understanding of the law, the question is around 'off-duty'. Maybe within your town, county, state etc you are never off-duty. Dunno - may be one of these iffy areas for the court to decide. I'd be surprised though, that if you are a village PO in NY that you have a legal obligation to intervene with a crime while on vacation in RI. This may just be an urban legend to support the carrying of weapons off-duty. Got to say though - I agree with Mr(s) Goose Just to get things going a bit more. One of the cases cited is a lawsuit against an FD where the ladder on the ladder truck was out of service. It was dispatched to a fatal fire - the court ruled that their was no special relationship and the lawsuit was dismissed.

I was reading the latest firehouse magazine (August 2008) and there's a pretty good article that addresses this topic. I tried finding it in the link that was mentioned here previously for the NYS Library - they only have the July issue online so far. (This link - http://find.galegroup.com.dmvgateway.nysed...amp;source=gale - may lead you to it eventually.) Essentially, as a bystander (not on duty) - you have no legal duty to act (regardless if FF / EMT / LEO). If you do get involved though, you create a 'special relationship' and you do then become responsible to act (whatever that may mean). So, the article by Curt Varone talks about duty to act. He states that the concept dates back to English common law and holds that no one is obligated to come to the assistance of another in the absence of a special relationship. ie in general no one has a duty to help another. The exception is where there is a 'special relationship' - such as parent - child, employer - employee, teacher - student. Other examples are contracted persons (lifeguards, doctor - patient), someone who voluntarily assumes responsibility (eg someone who voluntarily starts CPR), someone that creates a dangerous situation, sworn duty (LEO, FF on duty). Additionally Curt says that many states have adopted legislation that requires people to act (eg car driver that causes an accident must render first aid). The next part refers to scope of duty. He cites an example of a day care that was sued for not 'providing adequate life saving aid'. Essentially in the end the case was rejected on appeal. The center had a duty to act, which they fulfilled by calling EMS. How about a window washer that is incapacitated - the local fd does not have high angle capabilities. There's a delay getting a rope rescue team. The FD is sued for not having rope rescue capabilities - but did they act by calling a rope rescue team (as they did not have that capability)? My own local twist .... a boater has a fire in the Hudson. The AHJ does not have a fire boat - they call for a fire boat - have they fullfilled their duty to act? There are a couple of other case studies - and the question asked - what is the appropriate assistance? Who decides - basically the court / jury. The article then goes on to cover public sector cases. In general, there is very limited duty to act (with supporting cases), however there is an example where a dispatcher says an ambulance has been dispatched and would arrive momentarily. This created the 'special relationship'. In general, there are 4 cases that lead to the 'special relationship': 1 An explicit assurance by the government to the victim 2 Knowledge by the government that inaction could lead to harm 3 Direct contact between the government (actor) and the victim 4 The victim justifiably relies on the government (actors) assurances Interestingly, another example cited is the case in Waterford NY. On appeal, this was sent back to the Jury, because the fire department physically restrained the husband from entering the building to rescue his wife (where she died) from the fire. The court said it was for the jury to decide if a special relationship was created, and if so was that duty breached. Unfortunately, searching on Google I couldn't find anything more on this. Then there are several examples where the FD / Town / State was not held liable for a duty to act - in some cases even though they were called, and did act they were still not held liable in the regard of duty to act. So, in general I would say form this that if you are off duty (whatever that may mean as a 'sworn' officer) - there is no legal duty to act. Morally? Maybe a different story. On duty - quite probably a legal duty to act. However, that may only mean notifying someone that is able to handle the situation. In the case of a 'bus' with no EMT coming upon an MVA, your duty to act may be just to call the dispatch center. Of course, I would think you would want to asses injuries to your trained level (CPR, FR, nothing), block traffic, make the scene safe etc (according to your training).

Hey Good luck, enjoy! - boy does that make me jealous though

Understood. Certainly I wasn't envisioning a rig pulling up and the Officer sitting there and going through the list. I do think it would be a good reminder as you are responding and preparing for arrival - helping get your mind on the game.

My guess is 3 ....

I respectfully disagree. I think it is a good idea (even assuming that the officer has been taught / learnt this), that's why airline pilots use checklists. They know the stuff by heart, do it all the time yet still they have those checklists. We're all human, all fallible, why not use the tools available to us to do our job better?

Surprised this hasn't been mentioned here. Came across this at http://www.westchestergov.com/emergserv/training.htm 08-43 WESTCHESTER COUNTY POLICE AVIATION UNIT OVERVIEW (To be held at F.T.C.) July 28 Opened Register

As several have already said, fill out the structure assignment. In my old town, the dispatch procedures for a dumpster fire reported to be next to, near, against, in a building was automatically dispatched as a structure fire (complete with automatic EMS dispatch). Don't know if any departments / 60 control do likewise?

The Albany Airport, is actually in the Town Of Colonie. There is a medic that is assigned as the Flight Medic. I believe during the shift, they can be on a 'roving' type patrol and assist with other calls, but not necessarily the lead medic. They get dispatched by the Town Dispatch to respond to the airport. Obviously they also do training with the NYSP on a regular basis. I don't know, but suspect that if the helicopter is called for Police support / Law Enforcement activities that they don't carry the medics - and obviously if already committed would not be available for S&R / EMS (likewise if the weather minimums cannot be met because of fog etc). But that's no different from any other situation where you need plan B. http://www.colonie.org/ems/index.html#anchor45252 talks a bit about their special ops division (although it looks like it might be a bit out of date, quoting 1998).

Wonder how many EMT Bravo shirts can be spotted at this event?

At my previous dept, we didn't have assigned companies. It was a department and not a company. Everyone was expected to perform all functions. We were always instructed to ladder every level, every side.

Great Pics. In addition to the couple of points mentioned, that solid stream looks pretty weak to me. Or am I just not used to seeing small diameter smooth bore flows?

Maybe the original post was a bit flippant - maybe tongue in cheek. However, in my department we do not have any set up for rehab - other than the Ladies Auxiliary. Most of the trucks carry some water on them - but that's hit and miss between the different companies. In my travels, I've not seen vitals being taken, cooling chairs, any organized or enforced rest periods. sounds like Cortlandt VAC have some good resources - and also some of the more progressive departments are putting things in place - but that definitely doesn't apply to the whole County. There are still quite a lot of incidents where there isn't even any EMS coverage.

Thanks for the correction. I was able to log in that way - not the nicest application to use but a wealth of information if you dig around.

It is a great service - however you need to be a state employee . You need to send in a state photo id with expiration, or a state paystub and another form of id.

Just been on a nice long car trip from the Adirondacks ... we had schoolhouse rock on for the kids. Remember "I'm only a Bill"? I bet there's only a very small number of these that actually get signed in to law, especially if they have any fiscal impact on the State Budget. However, the Politician can still put their hand on their heart and say they went to bat for the local Department.

Interesting idea ..... Personally I think you need more centralized fire protection. Probably at the County level - I think as some have mentioned, fire fighting in Kings County (Brooklyn) is very different from Essex County New York. Of course NYC is very different - but that's actually one fire department for 5 counties! Personally, I'd also suggest a more European (or at least UK) model where both 'volunteer' (actually paid on call) and career work for the same organization, follow the same rules, training courses, SOP's etc. as for staffing, in England there are risk assessments undertaken by the Counties to determine stations and manning. Some are manned 24x7, some have daytime manning, some have the first rig manned and retained (paid on call) for subsequent rigs. I don't believe you can make a blanket statement that you need the first rig there 5-6 minutes. Many places North of here, the next house can be 5 minutes down the road! (Again, that's why I'd go with a County over State department.)

It's good to see the update. It's interesting to see the changes from the late 90's. The board used to be a very closely run ship, along with the Town Supervisor. I've heard there's a lot more animosity now. Albany Med has a more 'traditional' helicopter medivac service. The Colonie / NYSP is more specialized - at least in some ways. I know they were trained to do hoist work and insertions (instead of just transport), rope rescue, confined space, water rescue. I think that the assigned paramedic was the last to be called for normal emergencies. This is really not much different than if you call for a medevac and it's already on another call. You either call in the next unit or come up with another plan. As I was reading through this, I imagined that the qualified paramedics would end up with the commercial provider puerly as flight medics. Hopefully though, it looks like it may not come to this.

Having spent a few minutes online looking for some info - I believe (NFPA?) ratings require one hard suction for the rated amount - but that is in perfect or near perfect conditions to achieve that. I recall seeing an article (by Larry Davis?) comparing the advantage of running 6" hard suction and a second (even a 3") hard suction. It made quite a difference. It's a little bit like comparing a dual 3" lay to a single 3" lay - you're splitting the volume between two hoses as opposed to one - so the friction loss will be less because the GPM in each hose is half the total. That should mean the pump has to work less for the same amount of GPM and working as hard - produce a higher GPM. Now I'm thinking I need to go to MacDonalds and get me a milk shake. Try sucking through one straw - then try sucking through two straws and see if there is any difference

Interesting to see that most of those that see this kind of thing as a bad thing are the younger guys (at least accoridng to their profiles) I think what Croton is doing here is great and I hope others follow suit. Interestingly, last night I heard Batallion 17 tell everyone to respond non-emergency (don't know if it was a relay from the IC - or if Batt 17 was the IC) - I think it was an EMS extraction from a hiking trail.

I'm surprised no one has said anything about the Likely Con-Ed strike. Anyone (admit to) remember(ing) the last one? I guess it was 25 years ago and lasted 9 weeks. Any contingencies being put in place around here? Or just more coffee and donuts for those 'wires down' calls?

Kudos to Baltimore. Some places (arguably too few) have been doing this for years - http://forums.firehouse.com/showthread.php?t=30266 It would be nice if we could get agreement of what plain English is for the old Westchester 10-20 code - and what it means! I do hear some more 'modern' departments doing non-emergency responses - maybe it will catch on. Here's another old discussion http://forums.firehouse.com/archive/index.php/t-37546.html where we seem to trail common sense IMHO

I'm not in LE, so I may certainly be missing something. But .... I'm not sure what it proves? I've seen 30+ cars on 6th ave before. Certainly makes a lot of noise and looks pretty. I'm sure its good PR and for Joe Public a nice 'feel good' thing - like something is happening. However, if something bad was being planned - wouldn't you just push it back if you caught wind this was happening? I don't know what radio comms there are and how easy it is to know where these are happening. Is part of the purpose to practice getting 50 LEO's to a scene quickly? Has it been useful at any emergencies (Con-Ed steam break? Crane Collapses?)? Just my personal thoughts ..... definitely better than doing nothing. Bryan.

Interesting story at http://www.lohud.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2008806250342 - don't who ossiningguy is that left the comment - but seems like he might have a chip on his shoulder .... ossiningguy wrote:

My prayers and thoughts with the family - and the first responders touched by this tragedy.