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Here's a question that I have heard debated many times. What's the best supply hose(s) for a rural fire? Should we drop the 4" or 5" - or should we drop a double lay of 2.5" or 3"? I've heard some say that we waste too much water "filling" the LDH supply line, and I have heard others say it takes 6 lengths of 3" to equal the amount of water in 1 length of LDH. Opinions?

I've taken both the Intro to Fire Officer and Fire Officer I courses. I am also a NYS Certified Fire Officer Level I. My main concern with the officer training courses is that they don't focus on tactics. You review paperwork, employee management, record keeping, public relations, public eductation and briefly touch on size-up and implementing an action plan. Now, I am not knocking these programs, they have their good points, but to be an effective, more confident officer you need to be taught what to do after getting on the scene. In our department, we have been debating back and forth for a couple of years as to which courses each position should complete as they move up the ranks. One of our best guys and former officers has stated that for company level officers, it's more beneficial to take courses such as AVET, TCO, etc. instead. I almost agree, but I think the better answer lies with OFPC implementing a better group of courses for officer development. Take the Intro to Fire Officer Class and call it Fire Officer I, make Fire Officer I a Fire Officer II, etc. Make these classes more situationally driven so new officers aren't rolling up to a scene and wondering what to do. There's a lot of great books and Instructors out there (Salka, Norman, Brunacini, etc.) that help new officers get a grasp of things. I'd love to see courses like the FLIP school availalable to volunteer officers as well. Maybe then we could be given more credit and viewed more closely as equals. I know that a lot of the decisions we will make as officers are derived from a few sources, which include training, experience and the good ol' gut reaction. The election process (see: popularity contest) is antiquated. The days of saying it's someone's turn, or voting for the kid who goes to the most calls are gone. We can fool ourselves into thinking the current officer classes make us better officers, but we all know how that really goes. And as far as combination departments and their chain of command - make officer training (and for that matter, firefighter training) as equal as possible for everyone so the playing field is the same and we lose some of the bickering and battling that is only going to destroy the fire service.

I agree, spec'ing a rig to be bigger or better then someone else, or specifically for Mutual Aid, is insane. But in this case, I don't think that's what happened. Although I am quite familiar with some of these rigs you speak of...

From the top rope!!!! LOL!

Excelsior?! All kidding aside, I hope it all works out for you and your other brothers in the WPFD. Eliminate top officials and keep the men and women in blue (FD or PD), they're the ones that really make a difference in a community!

So, maybe someone from Tarrytown can weigh in here... What are the differences between the Crimson and the Seagrave that resulted in the $68,000 difference. Drivetrain? Building materials? Warranties? Equipment? Perhaps if we all knew the differences in the rigs, it would make some more sense one way or the other...

If they are all seated and seat-belted as required in the NFPA recommendations, I don't think it would matter how many people are in there. It may be tough, but it isn't like others haven't done it. Some places are keeping tools and SCBAs out of the cabs because they're realizing how crowded it can get.

You're not trying hard enough. The next NRFD Engine should be a Pumper/Tanker/Heavy Rescue for your I95 jobs...

Define "normal." The only thing that happens "normally" in Westchester is that nobody agrees on anything. Some places send only 4 members (that's all they have), and others send 10-20 because they have the manpower. We've gone on Mutual Aid runs with packed rigs, and we've gone with only 5.

Thanks Chris, I am well aware of the bid process. If Crimson had a rig that met the specs and came in as the lowest price, then there really is no argument. If the rig spec'd is not being purchased and the Village is picking what to get, that's a slippery slope to be on. It will continue, mark my words, and it will trickle into purchases for other departments and even communities that see this happening. Some departments respond with a driver only - some sit on the apron and wait on sufficient personnel to show up. All I know about Tarrytown is that E80 is their Mutual Aid Engine, so if they're on a standby or going to work, the more the merrier. The same arguement can be made as to why paid/combo departments running with a driver only or only 2-3 firefighters get 6 seats in their cabs. It's because smarter departments don't want to fit 50 pounds of $hit in a 5 pound sack. Or in this case, a smaller cab. Nothing wrong with ensuring purchases are monitored and following the letter of the law. My issue is with government heads looking at the dollars and cents - but ignoring the input and needs of a department, whether paid/volunteer, PD, FD, DPW. Should a municipality's leaders tell DPW what saws to buy, PD what guns to get and FD's what apparatus to buy? I don't think so.

Good shares! At work, we have definitely heard (and possibly said) our share of humorous transmissions. One that I always laugh at involved a certain department north of mine a few years ago. "Engine 1**" on location, establishing Command." "Received E1**, on location with the command at **** hours." "Car 2*** on location, I'll be establishing command." "Car 2*** on location, now establishing Command at **** hours." "Car 2*** on location." "Car 2*** on location, Chief will you now be assuming command as well?" "(Laughing) That's affirmative, Control." No specific call, but many times I have heard a unit ask "Can I get that address again?" The reply, "It will be the house with the cop car, Fire Engine and Ambulance on the scene." And of course, nothing beats the "We're totally out of control at this time" transmission at a fire a few months ago. I was home listening and had to ask people if that's what I heard. If you don't have a sense of humor, you're far too uptight. Life requires a little laughter once in a while...

From what I hear, Crimson is a good builder of apparatus. Every manufacturer, when you get down to it, has been known to make great rigs and to make some lousy ones. It's like the old saying, "You don't want to buy a GM car that was built on a Friday..."

I'm not a math wiz, but it's probably a 10-man cab so it can fit 10 people. Just a guess. This is a bad sign for all fire departments, volunteer or paid. Once municipalities start making decisions about how many rigs, what type, what pump, etc. a department needs, they're not going to stop there. It will start with the Engine, then the next thing will be a Ladder, then gear, then pagers, etc. If the guys in Tarrytown felt they needed a 10-man cab (I thought I read somewhere it was going to seat 8) with a xxx GPM pump, xxx gallon tank, etc. - there has to be a legitimate reason, no? Next thing you'll see is the Village Board telling the cops which bullets to get, or that they should buy the cheaper vests. This has bad news written all over it - not just for Tarrytown either. Other municipalities might hear of this and wonder what they can do too.

Maybe it's the angle of the photo, but those guys in pictures 10 & 11 look WAY TOO CLOSE to that fire, just my humble opinion.

Libraries still exist?! I thought everything could be found at Wikipedia, Google or Amazon!

Keep in mind too, in most cases Joe Public foot the bill for that truck. So if they want to see it at a parade, that's their choice. Our village hosts a street fair every June, and one of the big issues every year that we hear from our Village Board and members of the community is how they love the parade with all of the fire trucks. Many people comment on how parades are part of that "Americana" lifestyle so many people want. I love parades too, but the judging needs to change (or go bye-bye).

What were the extent of the FF injuries, and from which department were those that got hurt? I don't think legal action should be taken against this AC, but I do think he needs to be disciplined, especially because I am 99% sure a lawsuit will come from the homeowner. A black eye like this hurts that department, and it will cause wake effect problems for other departments in that area, as residents read about this and start wondering what coverage they get. I said it in my earlier post, nobody should cancel any apparatus until you are on the scene, size things up and determine if you have enough resources. I get my stones broken once in a while for calling help "before it's needed" but you can bet your a** I'll never be short-handed due to my ego!

I still like going to parades - to a point. I'm all about marching in our own community and our neighbors, because it reminds our community that we exist. Often times when you go to a parade in a neighboring community, civilians from your community go too. I'm proud to belong where I do, and I know the rest of my department is too. But for most of us, we've grown tired of the competitive nature parades have always been, and focus on safety and functionality on our apparatus. Our Engines always get demerits for "dirty hosebeds" because they're packed to easily deploy. Our newest Engine has a hosebed cover, and we got gig'd 10 points twice that I know of for having it down. I agree with Andy (HFD219) that we should march for the people that came out to see us, not to take home trophies. Many of the departments with firehouses full of trophies are commonly full of members that I wouldn't want on a line with me. I am more proud of my department when we have 30-40 members coming to drills, our response times are good, our rigs are filled with competent people and we put out fires without losing buildings, hurting our people or needlessly killing someone. That's why I am proud, no trophy can put out a fire, cut someone out of a wreck or jump in the water and save someone. Keep the parades but lose the semi-moronic judging rules. Give credit for safety and efficiency, and if it matters to so many people, give out marching trophies. Keep the musical trophies too, those bands are out there doing a great job.

Thanks for the reply, Captain. Now that I get a better picture of this incident, I can honestly say that canceling units before anyone is on the scene is insane. I have responded to, dispatched and listened to departments go to AFAs, chimney fires, inside odor calls and they've turned out to be legit structure fires. Any FD that thinks a chimney fire is "nothing" or they can handle it with only one or two companies better be careful. A possible chimney fire back in December destroyed a house in neighboring Montrose. At no point did anyone call back to say the house was on fire. This info, although helpful, doesn't always happen so we can't assume anything, ever. A possible chimney fire should be treated as a structure fire until such time you have units on the scene and they can verify what they have and where it is going. You know, basic size up stuff. It's hard to do this while still responding! As for the pissing contest in this specific case - that department's leaders (Chief, council, whatever) should address what happened and do so quickly. Just listening to the tone of the AC's voice I can get a feel for what the point was that he was making. I've heard other FDs take this risk many times, and it's unprofessional, immature and downright embarrassing for that department. If any of you are like me, you take great pride in your organization. Anytime someone says something or does something dumb, you want to bury your head in the sand. (I know I've done this enough times to make a beach look like the surface of the moon!) The point is, you have to address things like this and correct these actions so it never, EVER happens again. This was a poor call on the part of this Assistant Chief, I would imagine he is kicking himself in the a** for it, as he should. Thank God nobody was hurt or killed. Knowing how today's society is, my money says that this department, maybe even this Assistant Chief, will be footing the bill for the damages done. If there is a manpower issue, or a king of the sandbox problem in this area, then whomever makes the major decisions here might have to take actions that will, unfortunately, make some people upset for the greater good of that fire district. Doing what is best for your customers is far more important then keeping your pride. Swallow it, so you can take a bite out of the bigger problem.

So the TOR Truck responding automatically cancels City's Truck, then the AC from LR cancelled that?

In the 3rd photo it looks like water coming out of a 2nd floor window. Were guys in there making a push?

So to be clear, the AC from Long Ridge (712) returned TOR's Truck (67) as well as the 2 & 1 (E8. E9, T3) from City? And they had two Engines (71, 73) of their own responding? I apologize for sounding dumb, but before I voice any kind of an opinion I just want to make sure this is correct. Thank you, CTFF.

Help me out here. Who are 7-1, 7-12, 7-15, 6-7, etc? "We have enough manpower" - really? You know this on your way and before you're on the scene? That's a gamble I will never take!

Sincerest condolences to FF Liucci, his family and the brothers of the Eastchester FD. Thoughts also with those members of EVAC, E27 and 2102 who answered his call last night. God bless.

I wasn't even attempting to add all of the "special" resources everyone has. Thanks for sharing, though.