INIT915

Just a reminder, according to the Forum's Rules, specifically Number 10: There are no shortage of Forum's that are better suited and designed for those types of debates. Thanks in advance!

Some mixed news here if you work for a municipality. For those of us here who work for the State, the new formula doesn't apply, but we'll still benefit from the overall extension. It'll be interesting to see how the first City who "tests the waters" makes out. http://www.timesunion.com/local/article/Mayors-hail-binding-arbitration-cap-4250571.php

Has anyone actually proposed repeal of Triborough? I think we're mixing the two here.

To the closest facility. They are becoming very active in New York due to their proximity and they have been transporting to St Francis and WMC.

This will be my last contribution to this thread, as we just won't come to an agreement. I don't understand how "training" can be the deciding factor. Much like how being dispatched to a scene versus rolling-up on the very same scene seems to make a difference. If you think "training" changes the dangers associated with running into a burning building or swimming into frigid waters, then I'd love to have your training. In your example of the armed robbery, "training" won't replace the safety associated with being armed or wearing the appropriate ballistic protection. It's not the end all to be all. Sometimes those in ES, just like those in the general public, are going to see a situation and take action. Absent something egregious, I'm not going to sit back and criticize their decisions, not for another LEO, a FF or someone in EMS. Just like the example above where the FF was lauded, not a single cop bashed him for running into a fully involved structure without any protection. Not so much as a peep from the Members here when it was a fellow FF. Telling, isn't it?

The only differentiation you can make is that in some cases they were dispatched and in some cases they were driving by? Your hypocrisy is reaching new heights. How does that make a difference? Does freezing water not impose hypothermia as quickly if you are a passer-by when compared to following a dispatch? Does smoke from a fire not affect the lungs in the same manner if your a passer-by versus following a dispatch? I think you have now fully answered my questions regarding your bias.

http://www.emtbravo.net/index.php/topic/35461-off-duty-fdny-firefighter-chris-murray-makes-heroic-rescue-in-greenburgh-1-22-10/ How's this one for an example. Not only did neither you nor your colleague make any critique, I'll point out that several very experienced and respected firefighters on this Forum commented positively. This firefighter, who I agree is a hero, made an educated decision with the information he had in front of him, just like the Rye cops. http://www.firehouse.com/news/10662724/fdny-firefighter-biking-to-work-rescues-woman This one also didn't just draw the ire of this Forum. Yet again, a trained professional who made a split second, heroic, decision. These two stories took seconds, literally, to Google. I wonder what the response would have been if off-duty cops made these rescues. Hmmmmm?

If you say so.

Given that a very quick Internet search also yields a number of stories regarding actions by off-duty FF's that have never been addressed on this Board, I think there must be more to the story. I mean, not a single one of those stories, (including two notable local stories, one from Westchester and one from NYC) have made it to EMTBravo, have they? I loathe to assume that certain parties have such vile for the rare moment that LEO's get positive accolades, but, it's starting to seem pretty clear. What else can explain this apparent double standard?

In some areas, if PD had to "time they're arrival" with FD or EMS, they'd have to drive the length of the city 30 times over. Remember, no matter the hour, we don't have to wake up, assemble, muster, respond, etc. We are already out there. No matter the on going criticism from our FD "brethren", we most likely will continue to evaluate each situation on a case by case basis, and make informed decisions when the benefit outweighs the risks, and when it doesn't. I'd bet my salary for the next ten years if those cops stayed outside and that guy died, and he was your brother/father/son, etc, you'd have those cops skewered on this forum.

So, PD shouldn't respond to aided cases in the event it might be a CO call? And the FD and EMS doesn't want to respond to calls in the event they walk into an ambush? Some of the comments from certain posters about law enforcement are to be expected, sadly. S.M.H.

Date: 06-15-13 Time: ~0400 Hours Location: Udell Court in Mohegan Lake Units: Mohegan Fire, Mohegan EMS, Cortlandt Paramedics, NYSP Description: Elderly female with a shotgun wound. ALS to WMC via MVAC. One in custody.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/23/us/oregon-public-safety-shortage

Some work is accomplished at Division HQ, while some work is completed at the individual Troop HQ's.

The patient was emergent enough to requires RLS at 5:00 a.m., but not so emergent as to require one of the providers to ride in the back? Am I missing something?

No one is questioning your father-in-law's qualifications. I'm sure he's a very able attorney. What he probably doesn't know, just as you don't and I don't, and everyone else here doesn't know, is the specifics of this case. You said the "cop had no right to search the magazine". That's a very definitive statement. There is no way for you, your father-in-law- or me to know that based on this newspaper article. The only way you could say that with 100% certainty is if your father-in-law is personally involved in this case. Is that the case here? If it is, such as he's involved in this arrest or prosecution, he probably shouldn't be discussing it with you, and if he is, you shouldn't be posting it on a public forum. If he's just assuming the officers had an unlawful search, that's different from saying the "cop had no right to search the magazine". And your right, there is no doubt as to the classification of the law. The uncertainty lies in the application. But, you know that right? (P.S. It's a Class "B" Misdemeanor, not a Class "D" Felony, so I might suggest you update your Penal Law.)

In general, there is little clarity with this law here in NY.

Would a group be certified in a specialty like HR without being certified as a generalist team? Is it possible the OCSO as an entire organization is accredited as an agency, without any special accreditation for their SOG?

I should add, there are States that are "must-inform" States. So the laws vary depending on where your traffic stop occurred.

1. No (See PL Sec 400) 2. I would say yes. How would one confirm the pistol possessed is the one on the permit without examining the serial number. There have been a few cases that I would argue support this. 3. Who knows? Ironically, the Columbia County case, if prosecuted, probably would have created the case law necessary to answer your question. I guess we will have to wait and see on this one.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/four_firefighters_killed_in_houston_4KIndlFKPTLFsLPVKDhfnO

There's no black and white answer to your questions. It would depend on the particulars of the case. And yes, having a loaded firearm is not per se unlawful, again, that could change based on the specifics of a case. In many cases, it would be perfectly lawful to have a loaded firearm in the vehicle. Again though, this article offered above doesn't really give you the details needed to know the answers in this particular case.

You and your "attorney slash LE Commissioner Father in law" got all that out of that article posted above? Given the scant details, it's impossible to know what happened at that car stop. What if the search was by consent? If it was, there's no Forth Amendment violation. I have no idea if it was by consent or not, but since the article doesn't give us the details, it's impossible to form an educated opinion. We need more details to decide.

They're based on Fair Street in Carmel, but they do have a few satellites, i.e. Putnam Valley, Nelsonville, etc...

What he is describing is common practice in many law enforcement agencies as well. Sounds to me like 13 DC's who all feel burnt because they were not chosen to be Chief, instead an outsider was.