Turborich

Tonight @ 21:00 the Plattekill Fire Department was dispatched for a PIAA on the NYS Thruway at mile marker 71.1 South Bound. Car 1, Car 3, Engine 1, Engine 2, Engine 4, 645 and 47-36 where all responding when @ 21:11 We were advised that Engine 4 was involved in a Motor Vehicle Accident, roll over with entrapment.
I have a been some sort of a chief officer for 13 years now, in the fire service for 21 years and never once did I instantly feel like I was going to vomit while responding to an incident...not until last night. I can tell you there are so many things that are going through your head after receiving an alarm involving your own...
What do I do? Whom do I call? How difficult is the extrication? What Happened? What did they hit? Who is in the truck? But the toughest question, the one that still rings in my head is "Are they alive?"
I will not speak of specifics. I will not release the details of this incident and I will let the authorities finish their investigation. But what I can tell you, 4 of the 5 firefighters have been released. Engine 4 is a total loss and the definition of brotherhood was re-taught to me through the actions of area fire departments and fire departments through out the state.
Cronomer Valley whom handled the incident...Thank you!!! Your professionalism went a long way tonight. You are our brothers and for you I am thankful. With out getting into every department that has reached out to us, because I can guarantee someone with be forgotten, whether it be at either at our stations or through phone calls, I had 132 missed calls, Thank you!!! Never have I had such an out pouring of support just for us.
I ask you, do you know what it is like to have to sit at the back of your vehicle trying to coordinate different responses while your Firefighters need YOUR help? Not something I EVER want to handle again.
For years we instill into our memberships heads...Seat belts, seat belts, SEAT BELTS... and on November 2nd 2013 @ 21:11, those seat belts saved their lives.
At St. Francis Hospital...the support continued. Fairview, Roosevelt, Arlington Fire Departments, with Engines, and Lisa Gardner, whom provided me with very informative updates, met the inbound ambulances to assist with ANYTHING we needed, ANYTHING. Tears is the word that best described how I was after I was notified of your support! I cant say thank you because thank you doesn't cover your actions. I owe you... period.
At 1:21 we called back in service, My membership continuing to want to help the community, knowing that what we seen tonight could have been completely different.
We will continue serving the community, we are Plattekill. We ARE Plattekill Strong.
I ask no one post NO Photos or post no details until the investigation is complete and I approve of such postings.
Thank you Everyone.
Chief Christopher Mancuso

The best hospital response I heard came after a very verbose radio presentation of a pt. After hearing the report the triage nurse simply asked "What's his fovorite color?"

Ahhh, so now I finally make the connection! LMAO.
We're fortunate to have a great crew - thanks for the compliment

This is one of the sorriest excuses for a document I have ever seen. All it does is "recommend." Yes, NY is a home rule state, but it does Require 229 hours of training for career firefighters under their document Administrative Standards for Firefighters. Where's the "home rule" in that? I believe the State could require a lot but just chooses not to. Even the 229 hours is minimal. Responsible fire departments are giving their probies somewhere in the range of 400 hours before they hit the street. Along with that, the required 100 hrs per annum cannot scratch the surface of the things they should be training on annually.
Where was home rule when the state mandated PASS devices and personal escape systems? The state jumped right over home rule when enough people demanded these items, and the state can do it in regards to training. All you have to do is get together and make a stink to enough stste legislators.
The argument for "home rule" and "recommendations instead of requirements" over the years has usually been something along the lines of "If we force too much training on firefighters, we will lose volunteers." Well, how would you rather lose them, because you require too much training, or would you rather carry them out in stokes baskets and put their name on that ever growing stone monument in Albany. (By the way, that monument sits in front of the place where they only "recommended" training. Ironic, isn't it?) This is not a salvo aimed at volunteers, either. The vols that see the need for training will stay.
I spent almost 35 years on the fire department and I cannot remember a time when I didn't want more skills and knowledge. Even in retirement, I am still learning. The Authority Having Jurisdiction should be within yourself. You should be begging your department for more training and knowledge.
How would you feel if you were personally responsible for losing a guy because you chose not to train on whatever killed your fellow firefighter? You have to live with that for the rest of your life?
Never let a man say that his training let him down.

Roscoe has a Ford/ Sutphen 75' Tower I think as well

Well this is truly amazing. According to lohud, over 60 police units had to respond from as far south as Tuckahoe to deal with this unreasonable and unruly crowd. Why? Because their "muslim sensibilities" were insulted? Give me a freakin' break. The rules are posted and for certain rides, there is to be NO WEARING OF ANY TYPE OF HEADGEAR period.
Why do these people think they are exempt from the rules, the laws? I know what they would like; Sharia Law. Their own version of a justice system implemented in the countries they emigrate to. I think that is a disgusting disgrace, as were the actions of these supposedly "religious" people at the Playland park.
Look, you people want to assimilate in this country, fine. I guess we have to let some of you in. But if you don't like the system, the rules in place... TOO F'IN BAD, go back to the place you came from.
The difference between these people and the ancestors of many of us here in this forum is our great-grandparents had a huge desire to assimilate into the American culture. That's why on my mother's side, they came from Italy, moved into the south Bronx and gave up teaching their native language to their children, my mother, and therefore I don't know Italian today as a result. I wish that part were different, but the point being these people were so anxious to "fit in" they even gave up their language. Italian was forbidden to be spoken in the house by my great-grandparents, as a result their great-grandchildren only speak English.
Now these muslims with their headgear, the hijab, they can't even get on the Dragon Coaster without starting a ruckus? Like Playland OWES them something, like WE owe them anything? They should kiss the ground of freedom they walk upon, shut their damn mouths, follow the rules, or else.
What a waste of PD resources to have to direct half the cars on patrol up to Playland because these freaking people were "insulted"! Enough! Fit in or GET OUT!
http://www.lohud.com/article/20110830/NEWS02/110830004/Police-arrest-15-Playland-dispute-over-Muslim-headwear?odyssey=nav|head

I hate to sound like a sap, but this is a truly touching story and i wanted to share it here. I read this in the paper today and it made me think of how precious life really is.
Kudos to the brothers of Engine Co.1 and Ladder Company 24 for showing this brave little angel what the Brotherhood is all about.
I was truly touched and impressed on how the brothers took this child in as one of their own and made his dreams come true.
Little Liams family is a very strong one and my heart goes out to them.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/columnists/molloy/index.html

My oh my how the times they have a-changed. First thing, I personally want to give the original poster a pass (just my opinion) for the way this thing got broken out into a new topic. I admit he did overreact to what was done, but I personally understand his point. I also understand the moderators point, so lets let it go everybody? There's more important things going on right now than to bicker over how this became it's own thread.
But now that it is, let's take a look at what happened. The chief in question, it's my understanding he wasn't the most popular of chiefs, but who ever is? He put basically his whole life into an organization of 10,000, and rose to the top. But because we are all so conditioned to think firefighting/policing/EMSing are SERVANT careers, it's done for free in so many places too, etc., it brings peoples' blood to boiling when they read something like this.
Yet the payouts to the bankers who have made such a mess of the economy; nobody blinks when they see 50 million dollars, 20 million dollars to this or that executive of an investment bank. We are conditioned to accept the fact that bankers make huge money, but somehow firefighters should be "kept as servants."
The pension costs are going up for the NYCP&FPS (different from the state) because of how many 9/11 ailments the Brothers are contracting. The FDNY does breathing tests. If you can't pass it, you're out. So, the city has to pay for the additional costs. and is that so much to ask for the sacrifices the FDNY members have made since 9/11? How many of you personally know a Brother with 9/11 related illness? I happen to know two.
You know what Zadroga is about from an FDNY member's standpoint? It's about those sick members wanting to see to it that their wives continue to get their pensions if their ailments turn into cancer and they die.
Think about that.
Is that so greedy? Is it so greedy that a chief who served over 40 years of his life, probably had more than his fair share of risky moments during his career, probably saved a few lives along the way, which is more than you can say about the banker walking out the door with a 20 million dollar severance package, that he gets a quarter million a year?
Why the outrage? Why have so many forgotten so quickly? In the aftermath of 9/11, there were the famous people out there talking about how the FDNY was going to get better pay and compensation going forward. You know what Rudy gave them in the two years after 9/11? ZERO and ZERO percent contract. Where did the talking heads go? They had their moment in the spotlight, on the deaths of hundreds of Brothers backs, and where did they go? What did they accomplish? Where are they now when the FDNY needs them badly?
They want the Engine officers to start doling out tickets for car fires and accidents. They are going to be trained in A.I. They are going to wind up in courts in the middle of battles.
And yet, the department readies plans to shutter and brown out companies at night.
Where did the RESPECT go? Time.......leads people to forget. And then add in an anti-union rag like the NY POST, making a big deal about the chief, enraging people against the fire department. Nice job Mr. Murdoch, now please return to the Land Down Under from which you came and belong.
Listen guys and gals, the working class people in this country are under attack. I posted a link here recently showing the average payouts from the NYSP&FRS. It's NOWHERES near what this city chief is making. The State fund is 107 percent funded right now, the healthiest in the country. Good planning, now just watch your politicians don't go and screw with that, which is what they are trying to do.
Whenever politicians see money sitting there, set aside and invested for the working people, they can't resist trying to get their greedy little hands on it. Well hands off the pension system, and you know what? New York city residents are going to have to PAY UP for the pensions that the Brothers need, especially the sick ones. It's the least they can do in the aftermath of our country's worst homeland attack in our history. and i'm sure Manhattan real estate is still going to rise past the average million dollars for 600 square feet. They'll survive. The chief gets to live good for his remaining years; why begrudge him? Why vilify him?
NEVER FORGET, we all love to say it, wrap that Flag around our shoulders. Yet do we forget when we vilify some FDNY members because the NY POST says we should?
Think about it.

I heard the family that owns that company are real idiots.

I heard the family that owns that company are real idiots.

True...but imagine the size of them backstraps with some cold Blue Mountains!

Exactamundo.
Compare AFD's aerial to this new Seagrave Tower Ladder:

VES.. good one!
Figures the photos go up of the rig and bang; there's your second alarm for Arlington yesterday...
Also, not to get obsessively technical, but with the lettering removed in the photo it's a good time to point out that this rig is not a Tower Ladder.....it's a Ladder Tower...I know, I know nobody wants to hear it, what's the difference, but there is a difference, and the vast majority of platform aerial devices out there are indeed Ladder Towers, even though most depts refer to them as TLs.......I guess it just rolls of the tongue easier saying it that way. Best Luck with the rig AFD. Anybody know if Joe T. is still in the shop for AFD?

Sounds like they should put 2 more career men on and staff their own ambulance!

Terrible incidents such as this (as the post mentions) spurred the growth of unions. Nowadays, the well paid commentators on talk radio as well as certain cable news shows bash unions and blame them for many of our Nation's financial woes. It's true that some unions got out of control over the years and have some very costly clauses in their contracts, but there are many unions whose main function is to insure a safe work place along with fair wages and benefits. It's very apparent how these 'media experts' blame the unions but never mention why unions were formed nor do they bash greedy corporate types who stuff their own pockets while underpaying and laying off hard working people.
God bless all of the victims of both of these tragedies and remember all of the Firefighters who had to deal with the victim recovery. If you've never had to perform that function, I can assure you that it is very sad and it stays with you.

Bus might be a good option, the trailways bus station is not that fair from Kingston Plaza

Regarding your comments about the technical terminology of the OSHA Standard, and your legal interpretation of same; you are putting forth one of the most regressive arguements I've seen in quite some time. Are you quite sure that your legal knowledge is correct? You seem to have left out a few very key words in your deconstruction of the Standard; "provide EFFECTIVE EMERGENCY RESCUE." Do you understand how much weight those simple four words legally carry?
I'll tell you who does, FEMA for starters. They granted millions of dollars in AFG awards based on the proper application of the Standard you quoted. I've alluded to the fact that my job was a recipient of said AFG award. I will tell you, in the narrative, the term RIT or RIC (Rapid Intervention Crew is one which consists of fewer than four members) was used numerous times in justifying our need to be able to effectively perform the intent of 1910.134. FEMA agreed. I'm sure PESH would agree. I'm sure a judge would agree.
Many in the fire service have fought extremely hard to make this Standard just that; a Standard.
Please don't start telling all these members that there really is no "technical" requirement for FAST or RIT.
To all the younger guys that interpret your comments that there are technicalities, and ways to wiggle around with 1910.134, follow the progressive line of thought here fellas. FAST/RIT is one of the best improvements we have been able to establish in our lifetimes regarding firefighter safety. An IC that disregards the INTENT of the Standard, and trust me an attorney would be better able to explain the ramifications of the Standard in a lawsuit against a negligent IC; exposes him/herself to major liability. Aside from the catastrophy that might occur.
Stay progressive in your thoughts and actions out there guys. Please, for your own safety.
Edit: for unnecessary harshness.

A. Did they get there?
B. Did they serve the purpose that they were called for?
C. Did they have adequate manpower/ equipment?
D. Was there untoward effect (loss of life/ increased risk) secondary to their delayed response under extreme circumstances (ie. 3 extra alarm fires in the same Battalion)?
E. Did that response/ utilization of resources/ specific department preplan save or spend manpower from a department that otherwise dedicates limited manpower to high volume areas?
F. Would it be different if it was 1100 hrs on a weekday?
These are questions that when answered will lead to a productive conversation, otherwise there is a lot of scanner listening - armchair quarterbacking in this discussion which seems to be an increasing trend in this forum. This is extremely counterproductive,leads to overall misinformation, and threads being locked.
Albeit there are a few with tride and true fireground experience speaking of this call, most partaking in this thread (including myself and 90% of the membership here on EMTBravo) have somewhat limited fireground experience (just from age and profile information) in comparison to the scopes of decision making that is required in such unique situations (ie. practical preplans for multiple extra alarm fires in the same area with limited manpower/ resources and water supply coordination for a hydranted city during a state of emergency that essentially puts all of your hydrants out of service). Perhaps before we break out the "jump to conclusion mats" we could base our $h!t talking on some valid information. Perhaps "senior members", UC 911/ DC 911 Dispatchers, Emergency Management professionals, or a Chief of an involved Department would care to elaborate prior to this becoming a "blue light argument".

A. Did they get there?
B. Did they serve the purpose that they were called for?
C. Did they have adequate manpower/ equipment?
D. Was there untoward effect (loss of life/ increased risk) secondary to their delayed response under extreme circumstances (ie. 3 extra alarm fires in the same Battalion)?
E. Did that response/ utilization of resources/ specific department preplan save or spend manpower from a department that otherwise dedicates limited manpower to high volume areas?
F. Would it be different if it was 1100 hrs on a weekday?
These are questions that when answered will lead to a productive conversation, otherwise there is a lot of scanner listening - armchair quarterbacking in this discussion which seems to be an increasing trend in this forum. This is extremely counterproductive,leads to overall misinformation, and threads being locked.
Albeit there are a few with tride and true fireground experience speaking of this call, most partaking in this thread (including myself and 90% of the membership here on EMTBravo) have somewhat limited fireground experience (just from age and profile information) in comparison to the scopes of decision making that is required in such unique situations (ie. practical preplans for multiple extra alarm fires in the same area with limited manpower/ resources and water supply coordination for a hydranted city during a state of emergency that essentially puts all of your hydrants out of service). Perhaps before we break out the "jump to conclusion mats" we could base our $h!t talking on some valid information. Perhaps "senior members", UC 911/ DC 911 Dispatchers, Emergency Management professionals, or a Chief of an involved Department would care to elaborate prior to this becoming a "blue light argument".

(Insert seizure here)
It all theoretically comes down to 5 broad factors - response demographics, departmental SOP/ SOGs, scrub area upon initial positioning on district target hazards, surrounding mutual aid resources, and primary user preference.
I will now go consult my EAP..