Jason762

Well that is pretty much what I said. The best of the volunteers leave those ranks to become career guys leaving th volunteers with "the rest". This isn't the case always, but quite often it is. As for volunteering after you become a career guy, it certainly is frowned upon by the union, and the guys should not be doing it. They are opening themselves up to all kinds of potential problems. But that is a whole 'nother topic.

Like I said, there are problems in the career fire service as well, but the level of service provided by an all career fire dept. far exceeds that by a vol dept. We show up to every call on the first request (no need for 2nd and 3rd req for a response or additional manpower), all members are trained to at least a minimum requirement (no exterior only FF's, or social members), and we get on the scene quickly which reduces fire loss by limiting the extent of the fire and gives a much better chance to save a life, either by making a grab or arriving quickly for an EMS run. Like you said, there are good vollies, they take lots of classes, they care about quality service, but they are the minority and as we all know it takes more than a few good FF's to do the job. Also it seems (and I'm sure many will disagree) that the most motivated vollies actually want to and sometimes do become career FF's and (as they should) leave the ranks of vollies. And yes there are some career guys that complain about being in class all day, but guess what, they are still in class all day, thus giving them more knowledge to take back to the firehouse with them allowing them to provide a higher level if service. As for the tax system comment, I guess YOU can put a price tag on the cost of someones life. I will not. If the average person understood firefighting, the manpower needs to effectively control a fire, and how quickly fire spreads, they would not feel safe under the current vol system. How many people will show up to a call? Who knows... How quickly will they show up? Who knows... You get my point. . In addition, you are wrong, paid is better. Better level of service, better response time, better manpower (both in quantity and quality). The vol. system leaves too many question marks (?) that cannot be answered. Its time to employ some progressive, forward thinking. Vol. numbers are decreasing, minimum standards are increasing, this country has changed a "little" since Ben Franklin formed the first "modern" vol. fire company in 1736. Its time to start looking for solutions instead of holding onto the past. It may cost more money but can we each put a price tag on our own and our loved ones lives?

In reading all these posts it makes me further realize one thing, the volunteer fire service is/should be, a thing of the past. Do we have problems in the career fire service? Yes, absolutely. But, do we put the public at risk? Absolutely not. We are a group of highly trained, experienced, and motivated professionals that provide an essential service to the public. These problems that are brought up time and time again by so many volunteers, from so many departments are serious life threatening problems. You are putting the public at large in great danger (and yourselves) because of incompetance/bad attitudes. Yes there are many good vollies, but there are so many of the other type as well. We all know the type, the Gall's clothing wearer, multi-pager carrying, been there done that even though he/she has never been into a fire or actually performed in a professional manner or helped save a life. These are the types that are killing the vol. fire service. Folks, this is not a game, many people, includong ourselves, actually die. Would you hire a doctor to perform a surgery on you that was doing it on a voluntary basis, because he liked to help people. No, you would choose the best trained, most highly educated doctor, that does it for a living, and will do the best job. So many innappropriate attitudes have come out on many recent posts (ex. why should I go on the BS calls when there are career guys to do it). Your attitudes make you look unproffesional and the grammar and spelling of some makes you look like a child (but that is a little off topic). These are deep rooted problems that stem back generations, before myself and many others were even involved in the fire service. There is no changing them. Try and try as you might, it will NEVER change. Vollies as a whole will be less trained, less manpower will show up at calls, the firehouses will still be places to congregate as social clubs (AKA cheap beer), and the members will have far less experience in dealing with actual emergencies. Through my relatively short time in the fire service I have been a member of both the vol and career fire service. I have seen how both sides operate. I have many friends still involved in the vollies, and the differences are NIGHT and DAY. As a disclaimer so this post won't get deleted, I am not picking on any one FF or FD this is a general statement about the fire service as a whole. I could go on but I'm sure this pissed off enough of you so I'll stop here for now. Yes we all have problems, but when it comes right down to it public safety is not the number 1 priority in most communities.

Something like this could NEVER happen around here Kind of sounds like several VFD/combo departments we know of. This is what happens when politicians put public safety behind the need to save money. How much is your life/house/property worth????

The advice that has been given to you so far is all true. In addition I will say this...Education is always a good thing. Look into the contract between the White Plains Firefighters Union and the City of White Plains to see if they have a college reembursment program. I don't know if they post the contract online, some FD's do. If not ask someone on the job, they will be able to tell you. As for becoming a volunteer I would have to side on not doing so at this point in the game. If you are already on the list and will be getting hired soon then there is no need to affiliate yourself with a VFD now. The main reason being, once you are on the job, you will be strongly discouraged from being a volunteer. No need to waste your time for a few weeks/months getting into an organization that you will ultimately be leaving shortly. The experience you will gain in this short time period is very limited. Instead, continue to focus on physical fitness and education. I've been in your shoes, its a tough situation, but be patient it will happen.

In Stamford we have one on each truck co., two on the rescue co., and several of the engine co.'s have one as well. We use ISG's and have been pretty happy with them. The biggest thing to remember when using them is to not forget the basics of search. Always remain in contact with a wall, rope, hoseline, other person, etc. Don't get tunnelvision when using the camera. You may think you see something and go straight for it and become disoriented yourself. Don't become a victim! Stick with the basics and use the camera as a tool. Also they are great for investiagtions such as overheated ballasts, searching for extension, overheated motors, etc. They can also be used during haz-mat situations to view chemicals during a exothermic or endothermic reation. We use ours almost everyday somewhere in the city and they are great. Just remember your training.

Hey BedfordFire, That high school class in Ossining you asked about was on Channel 7 ABC news tonight...Maybe you can find more info on it, on Channel 7 online if you missed the airing. They may also re-air it tonight at 11. I missed some of it but it looked like a good way to get kids involved in the fire service, and teach them what it's all about, not what Hollywood makes it look like.

Date:01/14/06 Time:1829 Hrs Location:12 Hillside Ave Frequency:800 TRS Units Operating:E1(RIT),E2,E3,E5,E6,E7(relocate downtown),T3,R1,DC3 Description Of Incident:Working Fire in 2 1/2 Story Wood Frame SFD Writer:Jason762 1829 Hrs. Full assignment for Box 264 transmitted for the report of a kitchen fire at 12 Hillside Ave. E5,E3,E6,T3,R1,DC3 assigned to the box 1833 Hrs. R1 arrives on scene reporting heavy smoke in the area. They will attempt to darken down fire with can 1835 Hrs. Working fire transmitted. E1 dispatched for RIT. Medic 3 and Medic Supervisor 901 to scene. 1845 Hrs. DC3 requests an additional Engine Company to the scene. E2 dispatched. 1849 Hrs. E7 dispatched to relocate to the downtown fire district to cover Fire HQ. DC3 requests fire marshal to respond to scene. 1851 Hrs. DC3 reports fire under control, holding all companies. 1917 Hrs. E7 released from HQ to return to Springdale fire district. 2044 Hrs. Engine 6 last unit cleared from scene.

Yes, there is no "one size fits all" in EMS and FD. Every community is different. I don't know what town you are from, that can almost always get an ambulance out and on the scene in 4-5 minutes, but I constantly hear many, many other towns toning out for 2nd, 3rd, and 4th requests for an ambulance. Your town must be the exception to the rule, where as most towns are struggling for vollies, you seem to have enough to cover 2 calls at once. As far as competant personnel go, most towns don't have almost all of their vollies comprised from people who have paid experience, again you must come from a town that is different from most. The reason a paid person would be more competant than a vollie is due to his/her experience. A town with an all vol. system will typically be a smaller town with less call volume. Therefore the members will go on less calls and thus be less experienced. A paid EMT or Medic will usually go on 10-15 runs per shift, or thereabouts, giving him/her a whole lot more experience. This experience is essential in the treatment of patients and is a huge asset to quality of care. As for an appology from Alpha...We are all adults here, we are all entitled to our opinions. Just because you don't like what another individual says, or find the truth hard to swallow, does not mean he needs to give an apology. Grow up and deal with the fact that you may not agree with things that everybody else says. NYC response times are not really a factor in all this. I assume we have all been to NYC and have seen what gridlock looks like. There is nothing that can really be done about response times in NYC other than staffing more ambulances. This is just another accepatble risk of living in NYC. All these statements are not meant to be comletely encapsulating, meaning including all vollies. There are good vollies out there. The system as a whole though is outdated and needs re-vamping. Its all well and good to have a VAC but what good does it do when the bus sits in the bay while someone sits at home and is dying. The first responders are limited in their capabilities. I'm sure many people would have a different opinion of how "great" the current system is if it was THEIR family member that lay waiting for the ambulance to arrive when they were sick. Lets please look at the real issues and once again stop patting ourselves on the back for being "VOLUNTEERS".

I don't think that the statement made by LilBlueEyes was putting volunteers on a pedestal. I do agree at times there is a different attitude between the "paid" people and the "volunteers", which I'm not saying agree with. Many times a "paid" person will refer to a call as a job, to them it is, personally I feel my job is 9-5 in an office. I feel with whole issue started when a "paid" fireman was questioning a volunteer VAC. I am proud to say thay my agency was able to treat 807 people without getting paid. I personally have grown up with "volunteering", and has played a huge part in my life, and I would never change that. It is nice to be able to help a friend, neighbor or family member in need, and not feel it is my JOB to do that. I do it because I want to, not to get paid. ← KelliPVAC, So then am I correct is assuming since your "job" is your 9-5 office position, then you view your EMS position as a hobby. In the business of saving lives, none of us should view this as a hobby. I'm glad to hear your agency was able to "treat" 807 people, but at what level of service? A person in cardiac arrest stands little to no chance of survival if they are not defib'd in under 8 minutes from time of call received. Can you say your ambulance responds within that time frame at 10 am on a Monday morning? How about 2 am on a Satrurday night? The VAC is a thing of the past. It is time to look to the future and things like quality patient care and quality improvement. I'm not saying there should no longer be volunteer EMS but we must have paid crews on 24 hours a day (supplemented by vollies if need be), even if that means regionalizing EMS. It may be "nice" to help out a neighbor or friend in need, but I would much rather have a competant, paid EMT or medic (training) that does 15 calls per shift (experience), come help me in my time of need, rather than someone who was in the middle of a meeting at their job, received a page, responded to the ambulance bay, waited for a full crew, responded to my house and attempted to assist me. All this and who knows what this persons experience level is, or training level for that matter. How many times have we all heard the second, third, and fourth requests for an ambulance to respond, then mutual aid is called. What is the patient doind this entire time? Not getting better thats for sure. Its time we all face the facts and try to look towards the future and making things better, instead of patting ourselves on the back for a job well done. Lets take this job seriously and try to render the best care available.

City of Stamford, CT Fire Rescue Dept. 2005 run totals: total incidents:7459 runs busiest engine: Engine 1 2203 runs busiest truck:Tower 1 1136 runs Rescue 1: 1600 runs Deputy Chief: 1531 runs

IzzyEng4, First off, if you are going to attempt to make a point or an argument on your behalf, you might want to spell and grammar check your message before posting. It doesn't look too good when your post is full of spelling and gramatical errors that make it appaear a 4th grader wrote it. Secondly, a piece of advice. Don't start questioning union and city FD matters if you don't belong to either. Having friends in a big city FD isn't the same as actually working for one. And finally, if you are going to argue with anyone on union and city FD issues, don't do it with 786XP. You are out of your league and you will not win. Thanks for your time. I don't mean to be malicious, just giving a piece of advice.