Jason762

Here is the way using/downgrading rescue rope is handled where I work: If the front line rescue rope is used for training purposes and is not shock loaded and appears in good condition during post-use inspection it can remain front line rope. If front line rope is used on a job it is to be cut up or downgraded to training rope. Again the determination for this is made based on findings in post-use inspection. The bottom line is all rope use must be documented and a log kept. Also all ropes must be inspected after each use and rotated/inspected/knots re-tied every 30 days. If any rope is shock loaded cut it up. If the outer sheath is damaged cut it up. If you suspect the inner core is damaged cut it up. Always pay attention to edge protection and how the rope is being used. As for personal bail-out rope, I have trained with mine numerous times and worn it into fires but I always inspect i afterwards. If it comes down to hanging on that rope or dying I'll hang on the rope.

Who says when you use a rescue rope for training it can never be used again?

I'm curious about what system is being taken advantage of...

In the city where I work the local paper posts the top 100 city employees salaries each year which includes everyone from the mayor, right down to members of the FD and PD. It is public knowledge so unfortunately they are within their rights.

How about the occupancy of the building? A 1 1/2 story commercial building is going to require different tactics compared to a 1 1/2 story residential, right?

A Rescue Company should be both a truck full of tools and highly trained personnel to operate said tools. All the newest high tech equipment won't due a thing if there aren't highly trained, competant people to operate them. This takes a HUGE commitment from both the department and the personnel assigned to the unit. The dept. has to invest a lot of money in equip. and the training so the members will know how to use it. And the members have to invest a lot of their time into learning the disciplines inside and out. Where I work, I'm the Lt. on the rescue company and we respond and are supposed to be trained in the following disciplines: firefighting, search and rescue, extrication (both vehicle and industrial), dive rescue, cold water/ice rescue, high angle rope rescue, trench rescue, confined space rescue, USAR, Haz-mat tech., and elevator rescue. Now with all that is listed you think we might do/need a lot of training? Luckily most of the disciplines have one thing in common, rope work. If you get good at rope work you have a basic understanding that can carry you into the different aspects of rescue work. Rescue work also takes constant re-training. Just because you learned how to set up a 4:1 hauling system or a double-prussik belay system 6 months ago doesn't mean you'll remember it now. We try to train on ropes every day we work. If you don't you start forgetting what you knew and thats how people get hurt. Rescue work is VERY dangerous and without the right training and supervision it is easy to get someone hurt.

Stamford, CT FD-7764 runs

And how exactly do you discipline a vol. firefighter? Unfortunately a vol firefighter really has nothing to lose. Career guys can get written up which can be placed in your personnel file and can affect you down the road when it comes to promotions, further disciplinary action, etc. Also they can take vaction time away, suspend w/o pay, and terminate an employee. None of this can be done to a volunteer, which basically makes them unaccountable for their actions. There is no vacation time to take away, promotions aren' t really promotions and certainly aren't done in the same manner as paid jobs, you can't suspend someone w/o pay as they aren't getting paid anyway, if you suspend them, who cares they just won't come around, and if you terminate them they still don't lose anything except the ability to be a member of the FD (no loss of pay, benefits, etc.) For these reasons I can see a real problem with disciplining a volunteer. In the paid service when we have a problem with an employee there are many avenues you can take, and the threat of losing ones livelihood is usually enough to make people straighten themselves out.

Well where I come from when you're talking about 3rd and 4th due "trucks", that would mean the 3rd or 4th due ladder company. If I were to ask my boss who the 4th due truck on the scene was he would be a little confused unless it was a pretty large fire. It's not just semantics, if you ask for another truck to the scene and you really wanted another engine, you're going to be pretty disappointed when the big red "truck" with the really long ladder on top shows up...

ENG47INE, FYI a "truck" is a ladder company, what I think you are referring to is the 3rd or 4th due engine. As for positioning of apparatus the front of the building should always be left open for the first arriving truck co. If you're going to park the rig and go to work get it out of the way...And where I work I don't have to worry about 3 or 4 engines getting there before the first ladder arrives anyway. So I still stand behind my statement, if the rig is not going to be used all members should get dressed and go to work.

Depending on your jurisdiction the driver may need to stay with the rig when out on details (ex. food shopping) for security reasons. As for when operating on the scene, unless the driver is needed for driver type duties, he should get dressed and go in with the crew.

I'm not sure why the same thing seems to be stated over and over in this thread, yet so many of the younger and less-experienced members just don't seem to get it. It's not about "living in a bubble" its about not taking unnecessary risks. Yes firefighting is dangerous and yes you can get hurt tripping down the stairs, but why in the world would you want to take unnecessary risks such as riding around on the top of a hosebed for ANY reason be it Santa, post-parade celebration or whatever... If you review this thread it seems that the career guys and the more senior/experienced volunteers are the ones preaching safety. Why would that be? Maybe because they have been around and seen enough injuries to know that taking stupid risks is just that...studid!!! We certainly wouldn't stand for riding around on the hosebed on my job, and neither should any other department. As for the statement of "Sometimes, I think "Safety" preaching and practices is going way overboard.", I don't know where to begin with saying how ignorant that statement is. Get some time in the fire service and you will see how valuable all that "preaching and practicing is". I'm not quite sure how you could make such a statement either, being that you say you are a "Probationary/New Firefighter". Maybe if you reach your goal in "Pursuing a fire career", you'll meet some officers and senior guys who can tell you a horror story or two about what happens when we do things unsafely. Attitudes like some in this thread are one of the reasons why we still kill 100+ every year. Keep telling yourselves, "that won't happen to me" and hopefully it won't.

Date: 12/28/2006 Time: 13:36 Hrs Location: 20 Adams Ave Frequency: 800 TRS Units Operating: DC1, E2, E3, E4, E6 (RIT), T1, T3, R1, Medic 1, Medic 2, Medic Super. 901, DC6 (Safety Officer), Car 1 (Chief of Department), FM102, FM 109, Stamford PD Description Of Incident: Working fire in a 2 1/2 story W/F Mixed Occupancy Writer: Jason762 13:36-Dispatch receives multiple calls reporting a fire in a multi-family residence with an attached grocery store. 13:40-E3 on scene reporting a working fire. 13:41-Second Truck Co and RIT added to assignment. PD needed for traffic control. 13:45-2 lines stretched, one in operation. 13:52-Fire Marshal Division on scene. 13:57-Primary searches complete and negative, fire under control. All companies conducting overhaul. 14:19-DC1 releasing units from the scene as they are ready for duty. 14:58-Last fire unit clear from scene.

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I am wondering why this site has gotten hypersensitive with the topics that are discussed. Recently whenever a member would pose a question regarding anything involving paid and vol firfighters some moderators would threaten to close the thread. And now a topic was brought up about an incident that happened on a NJ highway and it was locked. It was also stated by a moderator that this was an isolated incident in NJ. While I'm here to say that this is NOT an isolated incident. Things like this happen all over the country. It has happened in the city I work in and I've heard of it happening in many other locations. They don't usually end with a fire officer being placed in cuffs, but it is still a problem none the less. And as far as I could see the thread was not overly negative or bashing so why was it closed down? Could nothing constructive have come from discussing the issue? How about we talk about rig placement at a scene? If the moderators want to steer the thread in a certain direction, thats fine, but why shut it down? I understand the moderators have a job but there should be some allowance for an open discussion on these forums

These are the minor accidents, where the vehicles have already pulled over to the shoulder, but the occupants are still complaining of injuries. This situation still warrants an FD response due to the injuries but because all travel lanes are open vehicles are flying by at 70+ mph. At at incident like this the FD needs to shut down a lane for the safety of its members, EMS, and PD. Typically traffic is like you explained, bumper to bumper, but even here the drivers are so distracted looking at the crash they pay no attention to the individuals working around the scene and can cause injuries that way. Yet anbother reason to close down a lane. Who is to say what PO's are competant and what PO's are not. Where I work we are the first responders, not the PD so who are they to call me off? As an EMT why would I let a PO with little to no EMS training or experience cancel me? Perhaps you're talking about NY only, but in CT the fire officer is in charge. Refer back to X152's post, where he states the CT statute number.

You're right Turk...I work up on I-95 all the time and the people that come whipping up that highway could care less about us. We have to slow them down and provide a means of safety for us. That means closing down the lane next to the accident and using fire apparatus as a means of blocking. Granted I don't deal with the parade of vollies cars that show up in other towns (I can see that being a real traffic problem). That should be dealt with by the respective fire cheif. I've seen members come very close to getting clipped by passing cars on both the highway and the city streets. The highway is probably the single most dangerous place we operate at. If we inconvience someone for a little while, so be it. I don't like sitting in traffic either, nut its a fact of life living in the NYC metro area. As for the thread I started earlier i did not mean to spark any hate maill sending or bashing of this site. I also must have missed the thread about the NH trooper. Once in a while I actually have to do things other than read these message boards and i may miss a few topics. So if I started an e-mail war I appologize, but I still stand behind the statement that we should be free to discuss controversial topics, unless they are harassing or involve finger pointing.

It's a shame to see these kind of problems. I worked with this DC at my old job as a DOD firefighter. Good guy and obviously he will stand up for his guys. We've had similar situations up here on I-95 but luckily no one was ever put in cuffs...

Date: Nov 24, 2006 Time:2202 Hrs Location: 11 Finney La Frequency: 800 TRS Units Operating: DC3, E1 (RIT), E2 (2nd Alarm Co.), E3, E5, E6, T1 (2nd Alarm Co), T3, R1, Medic 1, FM 109 Description Of Incident: 2nd Alarm Fire in W/F OMD Writer: Jason762 22:02-DC3, E3, E5, E6, T3, R1 dispatched to Box 244 for a reported chimney fire 22:04-Dispatch receiving multiple calls of a working fire in a condo complex 22:05-E3, T3 o/s confirming a W/F, multiple occupants fleeing apartments. E1 responding as RIT. 22:10-2 Lines stretched and operating, Truck Co's laddering roof/venting, Rescue Co. evacuating sleeping occupants 22:15-DC3 requests a 2nd Alarm. E2 and T1 responding. 22:36-DC Aide requests Fire Marshal to scene 22:42-Recall fire under control, releasing E1 and E2 23:25-E3, T3 remaining on scene with Fire Marshal, releasing all other units.

Thank you ltrob!!! You hit the nail right on the head. Just because I raised a question that has to do with vol. and career FF's doean't mean this is a this guy vs. that guy argument. I know its very easy to jum on that bandwagon but in this case its not true. I am just wondering why so many vollies are feeling burnt out. I work 2 jobs plus OT, take college classes, try to see my wife as often as I can, attend union meetings, and attend a whole lot of training, yet I feel anything but burned out. I don't understand why a person who is "on-duty 24/7" like was stated earlier, but probably only runs a few hundred calls a year (if that), and attend a few meetings and drills would feel burnt out??? If you are tired of dealing with dumb people, maybe you should find another line of work. If there were no dumb people there really wouldn't be much of a need for FF's. You should love what you do, if you view all these requirments as a hassle, then go find something else to do. This may seem like a stretch but these attitudes tie in to such things as LODD's. If people looked at the FD as more of a job and less of a social club and took things like training a little more serious (or actually attended training in the first place), maybe we could reduce the LODD's in the fire service. Lets not exaggerate things, ltjay. I'm sure you're VFD is not so busy that it is just non-stop action all day and night. Who's kidding who here...nobody is going non-stop 24/7.

I am kind of confused about Volunteer firefighter burnout. Before I was a paid guy I was a vollie for about 6 years. Now I've been a paid guy for about 10. My confusion comes from wondering what volunteer firefighter burnout is. What are you getting burned out from? Call volume...doubt it. Details at the firehouse that have to get done...doubt it. After living the life of both a vollie and a paid guy I have to say that my guys and I do more in a 24 hour shift (between runs, house details, admin details, training, and any thing else that comes up) than most vollie dept.'s probably do in a week or even a month or more. This being said there really isn't much burnout in the career service. If anything there is frustration from lack of activity. So, why are you getting burned out? Shouldn't you be excited to go on runs? Shouldn't you want to be at the firehouse? I'm not sure what type of firefighter gets burned out in todays day and age, but maybe someone can enlighten me. p.s. My above statements do not apply to EMS workers as they put up with more crap than amy other emergency workers, and it has been well documented about their burnout.

Thats a removal Why was he taken down in a stokes if it was he was on an exposure building? Why couldn't they use the interior stairs or at worst a ladder? Any which ways its still a removal. Now that is a rescue.

Unless I am misinterpreting this sentence, you are saying right here that you only have to be concerned with LEL readings when they get up to the 80+% range... And it is never okay to be in an atmosphere that is within or above the expolsive range...

While you are right about the fact that on most meters we carry in the fire service the reading on the LEL is a % of the LEL, not the actual % of gas in air, you are completely and dangerously wrong about when it is time to back out. The standard is that at 10% of the LEL inside a building and at 20% outside we vantialte and/or leave the area. Staying inside until you get to the 80-100% range is crazy and irresponsibly dangerous. Do you want to stand in an explosive enviornment? Not me.... This is why FF's get hurt, those that are leading the way, not knowing their job. The reading you are getting is what the mixture is where you are standing and at where you are holding the meter. It may be at a much higher level only a few feet away from you (possibly up or down not just in front of you, another reason to know the characteristics of the gas you are dealing with, vapor density, LEL to UEL ranges, etc.). That is why the safety factors where built in, to leave at a lower level and stay far away from the danger zone. Also know what gas the meter was calibrated to. Most are not calibrated to methane (many are pentane or another gas) and there are conversion factors that should be used to figure that actual % of LEL. Also utilize your gas companies as mich as possible. Many of them carry gas in air % meters that actually show the % of gas in the air, and they are calibrated to methane, and they are actually calibrated often and properly which I don't know if that can be said for meters in some FD's. You guys have been right that many people may look at a meter and have no idea what they are looking at, but how many of us really know how to safely use these meters. Educate yourselves before you get hurt.

It is with deepest regret and sorrow to report the line-of-duty death of Captain Joseph Sebastian Pagano, Jr. of IAFF Local 1073 - Middletown, Connecticut. Brother Pagano, 52, died on Friday, November 3, 2006 after going into cardiac arrest while at the station. The viewing will be held on Wednesday, November 8, 2006 from 5:00 to 8:00 p.m. at Biega Funeral Home, 3 Silver Street, Middletown, Connecticut 06457, (860) 346-1055. The funeral will be held on Thursday, November 9, 2006 at 10:00 a.m. at St. Pius X Church, 310 Westfield Street, Middletown, Connecticut 06456, (860) 347-4441. The burial will follow at St. Sebastian Cemetery. In lieu of flowers, memorial contributions may be made to the Justine and Marlise Pagano Educational Fund, c/o MiddConn Municipal Credit Union, 213 Court Street, Suite 101, Middletown, CT 06457.