firemoose827

WOW, I didnt think Id get so much response. First, I forgot to mention that they do give us a donation, and we have 2 vendors at the fair who give us one free meal for each 6 hour block you work. Plus the squad buys gatorade, chips, burgers, and dogs that we grill all week behind the first aid booth. And one EMT from a squad in the county works for Boars Head meats, so he gets us coldcuts, dogs, burgers, and even roasts sometimes for cheap or free. We always have atleast one emt and one driver on site with one ambulance for the fair . Our squad has two rigs, one is dedicated to the fair one is village. For that week we have two crews sign up; one for the fair and one for the village. When the fair crew transports, the village crew is called to the fair and a mutual aid rig is on stand-by for the village. Cobleskill Regional Hospital is 2 minutes from the fairgrounds so turnaround is fast. All communications are done with the EMT who has to man the first aid booth/radio at all times and the ambulance reaches them via 2 way radio. The EMT at the booth than calls dispatch via landline to inform of the transport and keeps a log of times and call info. The log is turned into the fair and the county at the end. During the week both of the County EMS Coordinators come and go and hang out in the "air conditioned" first aid booth so there is always at least one medic on the grounds. Sorry I forgot about this info, I didnt want to bore all of you with details. But that is how the fair is run. Thanks for your input.

Oh, ok, our birds have ft crews stationed on the top floor of Albany Med ready to respond.

Interesting topic, one that I have had mixed feelings about for YEARS now. I have read a lot of your posts and most of you talk about the need for life net and whether or not it is overused. This is interesting to me because I have taken the outreach training put on by Life Net out of Albany, and the medic who spoke at the seminar told us what they want in an LZ, how to conduct ourselves during the landing and after, and what we can do to the pt to assist them before they even land. They also mentioned that the bird could be used for ALS intercepts?! I couldnt believe it, they would actually fly out and drop off their medic to ride on an ambulance. Myself and most of my brothers and sisters agree we would never do that, unless there were a LARGE MCI somewhere and our resources were taxed to the max. They also stated that "Stand-by's" are a waste of time. They are located, in our area anyway, on the roof of Albany Med, and in the town of Glenn just north of Schoharie County. Both locations have full crew quarters, so the "stan-by" notion is totally useless. He said if we need them, call them. We could always cancel the bird and send them home. (This way the pilot gets his/her hours in!!!) It only takes five minutes to fire up the bird and take off. The class was extremely interesting and gave a lot of info on how to set up the LZ, I highly recommend you contact your local Life Net station and set one up for your counties. As far as waiting for a bird to land, for more than 5-10 minutes????? Our trauma centers are Albany Med (45 minute drive) which is level 1 I believe, and a level 3 trauma center in Bassett Hospital in Cooperstown about 30 minutes away over windy, back-mountain roads. If you can have the pt extricated and/or loaded in the rig relatively fast than you should be enroute to the hospital and either cancel the bird or meet them enroute at a differrent location. We have a back-up spot half-way between us and Albany located at the Duanesburg airport about 15-20 minutes away from us. Its a small private airstrip thats PERFECT for landing birds. So we arrange to meet them there instead of "waiting" on scene, that way if something happens we can atleast say that we were on our way to the hospital instead of "waiting for the bird to land". It takes 5 minutes to start it up and take off, 10-15 minutes to get to us depending on weather, and another 10-15 minutes to assess pt and render treatment, than 5 more to load and take off, than finally the 10-15 minute flight back. Thats 40 minutes (being nice by using the lesser numbers), in that time we could be arriving at the level 1 trauma center and getting the pt the rx they need before the bird even lands on the roof. THATS why I have mixed feelings about calling the bird. I would only call it if I knew that I had an extensive extrication time. By then the bird will have landed and the medic could assist us with extrication and get the full report. I dont know, thats just my opinions and feelings. Have a great day!!!

I was going to mention that, as well as the fact that some people gerry rig their electrical service to "Cheat" them and somehow by-pass the meter. It is dangerous to ever touch the meter at fires, leave it to the utility company. They can make sure the power is off by pulling the wire directly from the pole, its the only way to be sure. Than there is the "Hot Neutral" instance when the neutral becomes charged through contact with a bare hot wire. I have seen some videos at the academy when I took my investigator training and electrical c/o I and II. Its dangerous stuff to mess with. Only do what you are Trained and/or Licensed to do. Stay safe.

Here is a little "Foam 101" for you brother. Found it online, but I am computer illiterate and couldnt copy and paste the link for some reason. [edit] Class A foams Class A foams were developed in mid 1980s for firefighting wildfires. Favorable practical experiences led to its increasing acceptance for fighting other types of class A fires, including structure fires. [1] Class A foams facilitate wetting of the class A fuels, lowering the surface tension of the water and assisting with saturating them with water, which helps suppressing the fire and preventing reignition. [edit] Class B foams Class B foams are designed for firefighting on class B fires - burning flammable liquids. Using class A foam for extinguishing of a class B fire may lead to unexpected results, as the class A foams are not designed to contain the explosive vapors produced by the flammable liquids. Class B foams have two major subtypes. [edit] Synthetic foams Synthetic foams are foams based on synthetic surfactants. Synthetic foams provide better flow, faster knockdown of the flames, but limited post-fire security. Aqueous film forming foams (AFFF) are water-based foams, frequently containing alpha-olefin sulfonates, and/or perfluorooctane sulfonate (PFOS) and perfluorooctanoic acid (PFOA) as surfactants. They have the ability to spread over the surface of hydrocarbon-based liquids. Alcohol-resistant aqueous film forming foams (AR-AFFF) are foams resistant to the action of alcohols, able to form the protective film even in their presence. [edit] Protein foams Protein foams contain naturally occurring proteins as the foaming agents. Protein foams flow and spread slower, but provide a foam blanket that is more heat resistant and more durable. Protein foams include regular protein foam (P), fluoroprotein foam (FP), alcohol resistant fluoroprotein foam (AR-FP), film forming fluoroprotein (FFFP), and alcohol-resistant film fluoroprotein (AR-FFFP). [edit] Applications Every type of foam has its best application. High-expansion foams are used when an enclosed space, e.g. a basement or a hangar, has to be quickly filled. Low-expansion foams are used on burning spills. AFFF is best for spills of jet fuels, FFFP is better for cases where the burning fuel can form deeper pools, AR-FP is suitable for burning alcohols. The most flexibility is achieved by AR-AFFF or AR-FFFP. AR-FFFP has to be used in areas where gasolines are blended with oxygenates, which prevent the formation of the film between the AFFF foam and the gasoline and break down the foam, rendering the AFFF foam virtually useless.

We dont have any in place right now but we all realy should. I mean if you look at the LODD stats 90% of them are cardiac related. Its a scary thing especially for someone like me with an extensive family cardiac history. My father coded at the age of 45 and was rescusitated. My dept has a weight room and a portable basketball net but they dont realy inforce any fitness levels. I am going to ask if we can form a softball team to enter in a local league and have the dept sponsor us in an effort to start SOME kind of fitness program, but I dont think it will go over too well. Than there are time constraints, if you cant get someone to come down for calls or drills, they definately wont come down for Physical Fitness programs. Unless ofcourse you have a surprise drill consisting of excercise!! (Other than the 16 oz curls.) If you find any guidelines please send me a PM, I would be interested in starting one for our dept. Good luck. Stay Safe

Just to verify some things about the Albany area... I volunteer here in Schoharie County, the western border to Albany County and Schenectady county. I have taken classes taught by battalion chiefs from both the city of Albany and Schenectady at the college in Schenectady. I have always heard of good working relationships between vollies and career staff, and two of these chiefs have relied HEAVILY on vollies numerous times. There is no brick throwing or any volly/career warfare that I am aware of. About the topic at hand, I agree that once you are career there is no going back. You have established too many procedures and standards that a volunteer agency can not keep up with. Once the public has experienced the level of service provided by a career dept, they do not want to fall back on the lesser service. Ive been a jolly volly for 15 years now but unfortunately, the level of dedication has dropped and due to family and work obligations its difficult for most vollies to respond. The ones that do respond complain about the training requirements and get lazy habbits. They start to rely on crazy excuses like "I have been around the fire dept since I was in diapers, I know what I am doing." or " I was in the explorers, I dont need any more training." There are no excuses in career depts and that level can not be duplicated by vollies. MOST vollies anyway. Stay Safe.

I am glad to see so much discussion from the experienced members about this topic. I have learned a lot and respect all of your wisdom and experience. Great Thread!!! I agree with what has been said about training also. It all boils down to lack of training, both initial and continued/refresher. FF's are getting on the knob and not realizing how much water theyre using, if they are "pushing" the fire into the house or not, ect ect. MPO's are just turning the pump on and pushing water. They dont use the formulas, ( atleast the basics anyway) or take into effect the friction loss or type of nozzle being used. Heck, some depts have 3 or 4 different types of nozzle on one truck! Is that smart? TRAINING is the key but unfortunately, not as many of us believe in this as much as they used to. Ive heard guys say that the four years they spent in the Explorer program was enough training, and they dont NEED any more!! I stay away from them at fire scenes. Great Thread!! Hopefully everyone is learning a lot from this. Stay Safe.

Good post. No matter what you do someone is listening, either on the air or monitoring a scanner that has cell phone channels tuned in. The major thing is, your arent giving the PT's name or vital stats, just medical condition and Rx given to let the ER know what they have coming in. So I dont worry about that. I just give age, sex, Chief Compaint, my brief assesment, vitals, and rx rendered. I usually dont go crazy with last meal or other info not pertinent to chief complaint. The staff at our local ER goes NUTS when someone reads a book about the pt when the chief complaint is "unable to urinate" or something silly. So we have learned to keep it simple. In fact, the staff here has even had a seminar at the hospital for EMS, and they went over what they want in an EMS to ER radio report. It was a good seminar and we learned a lot. Just something you can think about with your hospital. Stay safe.

I just used one sunday night for the first time at a structure fire in our neighbors district. They are a small dept with only about 12 active members and only 4 of them can pack up, yet they have these nozzles. Personaly, unless you have training on them and use them every day they are the worst nozzle I have ever seen. They are difficult to use if you have never used them, and when I opened it up it was set to a combination fog/smooth bore pattern. The guy in front of me wasnt happy!

We have at least 6-8 trash pumps in our station that we could load onto our 6-wheeler trailer and bring to large jobs, or divide among the members who have pick-ups. We also have pumps on our tanker, brush truck and rescue. You can never have enough. When Schoharie and Middleburgh were flooded out in 1996 we sent teams down for 2 days to assist with all of the pumpouts. Whenever you see contractors or anyone else getting rid of one, ask for it, fix it up and keep it handy.

I am not starting arguments here, just merely issuing my opinion to spur discussion. A lot of what is happening, (or not happening) is people are forgetting what "Volunteer" means. I am a volunteer and have been so for 18 years. When I first started out as a young, cocky snot nosed rookie still living at home while going to school, I was able to LIVE at the firehouse. I was at EVERY call and drill and meeting. I was an 18 year old Captain running a squad, submitting the paperwork to become ALS certified ambulance, and specing out a new rig. Now, I have a 7 month old daughter, I work 2 full time jobs, and when I am not working my wife is. I just cant feesibly make it to every call. That doesnt make me a bad person, and I dont think its fair that you say there are people who "wait ti see who fills out the call before responding." Maybe those people are like me, we cant respond from work unless its a dire emergency. Not my laws, my bosses. And when I am home sleeping, I only get about 5 hours sleep a night, I realy dont want to get out of bed any more for the old lady who fell out of bed. I respond whenever I can, and I help out wherever and whenever I can. EMS today NEEDS to be paid, at least a staff of 2. With response times and survival rates you NEED 2 people right there to respond within 2 minutes or you open up problems everywhere. I too dislike it when you go 3 tones for a "sniffles" call and go to mutual aid, only to have an MVA with entrapment 10 minutes later and get THREE full crews show up out of the woodwork. Todays vollies just dont have the heart, or the time to volunteer any more. Its sad, because I LOVE to volunteer and help people, but I cant help anyone when no one else shows up for the call. Just my thoughts and opinions and I take NO jabs at any person or organization. Everyone have a great day and be safe.

These ARE all things a FAST already is supposed to do at the scene. You are supposed to make sure there are egress points on all exposures and that all hazards are clear as you do your size up, than stand-by near the command post. Atleast that is what our county team does. NO FAST team should ever be used for "Manpower" EVER. They are there for a purpose. Call Mutual aid.

I think its an add for the EMT Bravo Flashlights!!!

Its actually a good game. My brother and I played it in the mall when we were all christmas shopping a few years ago and it was a fun and entertaining game.

Too aggressive for me. Why did they deploy there? There is no hole cut, a ladder is deployed in front, and numerous ground ladders are up. There are fire walls in this type of building but they only go to the attick level, so to answer an earlier question yes; the apartments share a common cockloft but I still see no trench cut or basic vent hole to justify the placement of the truck. But, we werent there so I guess there could have been some reason the chief wanted him there. Also, if I were the electrician for this building I would be packing my bags and heading for cover! I wonder why the occupants haven't all gone to a hotel, and why the codes officer hasn't shut the place down after all of the electrical problems. Any codes people out there that could elaborate for us????

For years and years now, if anything goes wrong, fire, injury, illness, cat up a tree......who does the person call? Usually the fire department. I think that if the scene is controlled, and only the Crew Chief and a few helpers are with the pt than they wont get scared. Sometimes having a bunch of people there to help them assures the pt that someone cares. Just one answer to your question.

As far as EMS there is NYS rules for EMT's called duty to respond and abandonment. If they see an accident with injuries they need to stop and render aid, " Duty to Respond." If they see the accident, stop and see that no one is hurt badly, slap a bandaid on someone or toss a cold pack to someone than go on to the fire, its called "Abandonment". Its been a while, am I right? Are these laws still in place? The other question is are there even EMT's on these engines at all or are they just firefighters.

" I would rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it." Around me we are starting to go to an auto-mutual-aid dispatch during the weekdays. Depts all over the county are starting it with their M/A depts to get a quicker, LARGER response. We go with our neighbors to the north, wer'e simultaneously dispatched and the first officer on scene makes the determination. Our county FAST???? We have it but there are a lot of stubborn pig heads out there who refuse to use it at all. Its a shame because we have a dedicated team, and they are always training but never called.

Im surprised not too many of you mentioned all of the Haz-Mat that could be found in basements, especially when attached to garages. There could be gasoline, paint, oil, propane cylinders, and maybe acetylene tanks for welders. Must get good info from the tenant/owner as to what we can expect which points out to Good SIZE UP. Second, as mentioned prior to me, the utilities. There are electrical panels in basements, and by dumping tons of water on these fires you could get an initial electrical hazard untill the meter is pulled. But even than sometimes the meter doesnt take away the hazard, SAFETY. Always send in the probie or the dept loud mouth first! JUST KIDDING. Also, instead of old fashioned firefighting, how about High Expansion Foam? Why jeopardize lidfe when you can dump thousands of square feet of foam on it to knock it down, than send the line in to overhaul. Just a story here to enlighten you all. My father was at a basement fire YEARS ago, and he was on the tip. He said he went to crawl down the stairs and there was only 3 steps and it leveled off. He was confused, and thought maybe it was a landing so he started to look for more steps and found none. He saw fire and it was HOT, so he opened the line and knocked it down. As soon as the crews vented it and the smoke cleared he saw what he was crawling on....MOUNDS of GARBAGE.!!! Apparently the people did not want to pay a company to haul their garbage and just conveniently stored it in the basement. It turned out to be a deep seated fire in 5 feet of garbage that was started by the pilot light on the furnace. Talk about overhaul! Remember to size up, and use your basic skills. Sound every floor, do a walk around, check for utilities, and always look for a safe approach to attack the fire. Be safe all. Think Spring

Boy, I wish some of you could live in MY neck of the woods for a while! NIMS is a system set up to get rid of the confusion, and the cluster. Like in a previous thread with the Chief calling shots from 3 miles out without even knowing what the scene looks like? NIMS stops that. It sets up a CLEAR and SIMPLE chain of command AND reminds our officers to use SIZE-UP. I have heard TOO many calls around me in my neighboring depts where I was waiting for an officer to arrive on scene. When they got there all I heard was "2011 on scene"............???????? With every change of command there should be a size-up report also, "2011 relieving 2014 from command, still have heavy fire on the 2nd floor b exposure, eng 2 is on the hydrant at the corner of &*^% and ^&%$." I have heard chiefs argue the point saying, "Yah but than everyone in scanner land will know what is happening." WHO GIVES A %#@! Its more important to let your crews know whats going on so they can prepare. Sorry, just my opinions. Hey, happy new year everyone!!!!

Hey, Anyone have a list of frequencies for upstate NY near Schoharie County? Im looking for highway dept, fire dept, EMS, Life-Net helicopter, ect. Anyone have any good websites with frequencies? FREE ones I mean? Thanks everyone.

I am actually surprised that no one asked this...if you did, sorry. Was the pt AOX3? Were they a risk to themselves or others or just drunk? I work PT for an ambulance service and we transport quite a few "Drunks" from the college, and we sign off 3x that amount because they are AOX3. Another question is were they 18? Or were they younger? Because once the ambulance is called and it is a minor, and that minors parents are 200 miles away...that changes things. We either have to talk to the parents on the phone or transport to the hospital. Implied Consent. Lots of rules and laws that EMS people have to follow. Hope this helps your concerns brother. Be Safe

Ok... I started to read most of the replies to your topic and I think that they have gone off topic a bit, so I will try to answer your question. If someone has already mentiones this...I apologise. It just started to look like a Volly Vs. Paid thing again! Our dept sends a group of us to Vital Signs every year. Two years ago, our then new Second Lt and Myself went to one seminar called "The three R's of EMS". It stood for Recruitment, Retention, Recognition. It was an excellent class and I enjoyed every second of it, heck, I even took notes!! We learned a lot about recruitment and retention matters dealing specifically with volunteer agencies. We took that back home and started a committee called "The Three R Committee" and it is run by the members. The officers have no say at the meetings; advice and opinions yes, but the final say comes down to the membership votes. It has helped to solve a lot of problems with getting people to respond to calls, drills and meetings, and now people are getting the recognition they deserve with a proper awards banquet and annual events like picnics, trips to Great Escape in Lake George, and other family oriented events like Bowling Parties. We rented out the local lanes, invited members and their immediate families, and we bowled all day. We had pizza, wings, ice cream and beverages. With all of these things we seem to have a better turnout. People are seeing that the squad is appreciative for the help they donate so they give more time. There are rules though...not strict ones but rules all the same! We implemented a point scale for membership. You get a certain amount of points for certain events, and you need 45 points for the year to be a member in good standing, and you need to be a member in good standing to go to these squad events. It is working well and our membership is improving. Hope that helps!