firemoose827

Anyone know when the next round of AFG grants are opening? I thought it was every spring...

May he Rest In Peace and may his brothers and sisters take comfort in our support. Its a tragedy that needs to be stopped. Not specific to his incident because I dont know how or why he crashed, but I see it too often up here. People drive recklessly to calls in their POV so they can make the truck and be first in the fire...Why... I hope the family and friends are coping, all my best to everyone. STAY SAFE...

He was, by both our chief and his at our drill night following the fire. It was a modular style ranch house with energy efficient windows and doors, and it just snuffed out the fire. When he opened the front door the air slowly started to feed the fire, which was about 40 feet away from the front door but only 6 feet away from the back slider. When we took that the air hit it and it took off. It flashed in the laundry room just off the dining room where we made entry and started to come out into the dining area quick, but we hit it there and stopped it. There was even-char in the dining and kitchen, skylight covers melted in the kitchen but the glass held, and it just smoldered from there. We were lucky no one got hurt, and our crew got the full critique 2 nights later and we explained it better to them as well. We also told this guy to never cancel our MA or our FAST response again without our approval, we ended up calling the MA BACK to the scene and they were a little upset, and the FAST team asked us what happened as well, but we explained it and they laughed it off. Lesson Learned, everyone went home, no one hurt (except ego), and we have a better working relationship with our mutual aid dept now as a result of this with regular joint drills being planned.

Not all campus' in the area have paid responders coming in. Ours, as mentioned, has the paid crew but they only have one rig, and do interfacility transports from the local ED as well as mutual aid response to the county for ALS assists and second ambulance responses for MVA's. If they are 45 minutes away delivering a patient to a higher level of care, the school has to rely on the local volunteer group. They are ALS, have 2 rigs and run about 600-700 EMS calls a year. They are a great group, but are getting hit hard as a volunteer group. Having the Student Medical Response Team at least gives us someone on scene to initiate treatment and update incoming crews. In my eyes, this group near me is a necessity.

I had an interesting fire a few weeks ago that reminded me of this topic and I just had to share it. We were dispatched to a structure fire at around 0530 along with our automatic mutual aid dept per our protocols. I called enroute to the station, and while responding, an assistant chief from the MA dept calls on scene and starts to call off all of our MA including the FAST response...Ok, at that point I guessed it was nothing. I arrive on scene in the engine to find said chief standing in the yard, no gear, hands in pockets, telling me "Its nothing, just a tiny smoldering fire near the back door"...Ok, starting to get a little annoyed by his canceling our MA and FAST. I walk towords the front of the house to do my sizeup and see blackened windows, an open front door with smoke banking down to knee level and intense heat felt through my gear, the windows were hot to the touch...Im starting to think at this point that this chief needs to go back to being a black coat. I find out at this point that I am the only officer on scene from my dept and realise no report or assumption of command had been made, and I started to get my radio when my assistant chief shows up. I tell him what we REALY have and he too looks at me like hes going to go and give this "Chief" a piece of his mind also, than tell the crew to stretch the crosslay to the front door while I went to get a pack. In just the minute or so it took to pack up, this "Chief" tells my crew to take the line around back instead of the front door, which was like a 300 foot stretch and our crosslays are 200 foot. My chief is now around the back doing his sizeup and could not stop them. By now Im pissed. I find the crew, who were all anxious to tell me that the line wasnt going to reach the back door, I calmly tell them thats exactly why I told them to go to the front door. By now our chief just yells for the pump operator to throw 3 more lengths on the line and we go to the back door, a glass sliding door, locked with the panic bar on the track, so we couldnt even force it. So...A perfectly good sliding door had to be broken. I make entry and immediately feel the intense heat through my gear, and see the flames start to grow deeper inside the room, than whammo, the laundry room about 6 feet in front of me receives the fresh air we let in and it flashes over. Turned out that the fire started, than lost oxygen and just smoldered in the laundry room. The small "Smoldering" fire this chief saw was the drapes that caught fire, dropped to the floor, and were still burning by the slider. When we took the slider out the air rushed in and fueled the fire and it flashed. COuld have been worse, yes, and we were lucky, actually that "Chief" was lucky. Another 10 minutes and both myself and our chief would have been at work and there would have been none of our officers there to stop them from just going in to this house blind and getting burned. We talked to this chief, and asked what he did when he arrived, and he said he just looked through the back door nd saw the small lick of flames, he went and opened the front door to start to vent the smoke out so we could find it easier, than called dispatch to cancel the mutual aid response. Good sizeup is KEY to the outcome of the fire. This chief knows about good sizeup now, and he learned it from us. Stay Safe

Yes but they could be more considerate!! I mean c'mon, 3am every thursday night? LOL

They make those tape measures for dummies, with the incriments spelled out for you. Maybe the department should buy one and send it to the firm as a gift? I hope they can get it resolved before the truck is too damaged from the elements, or even worse, vandals. Does anyone know where the truck is being stored for now?

During my time with the career EMS unit I worked in Upstate NY, I worked very closely with the local SUNY EMS response agency on campus, and I have to say, they were extremely dedicated, professional, caring, and always wanting to help in any way they could. I have had numerous trips to campus for the infamous "Intoxicated Subject" calls at all hours of the night (Notice I didnt say day? ) and this group always responded, always had full sets of vitals every 15 minutes for us, always helped us carry them down with our equipment and always had someone ride with us to the local ER. Very helpful group. They had a fly-car that was kept at the campus clinic, if there was a call someone went to get the car while the rest responded on foot to the building. It was a fairly big campus with numerous buildings all interconnected with sidewalks big enough to drive vehicles on, and they had the campus security officers too that were a branch of the state police. Very efficient system they had.

I agree with you brother. I have been here for 22 years, I am a captain now, and I see it way too much. The same old excuse every time the training schedule comes around, their too busy and have no time. But then when it comes time for the chief to pick someone for a task, they suddenly feel as if they are more than qualified? If you dont have the training you wont do the task. They cry all the time that its too much time...suck it up. You want to fight fires you need to know what your doing, yet they all think they can pack up right of the street with no training, and why, well ofcourse, because their daddy is or was chief, or their uncle, grand-daddy, mother, brother, sister, aunt....Does having a relative in the dept make you trained?? Dont think so. I have a guy in my dept running around telling everyone he is trained as an interior firefighter, yet he cant give us certificates when asked. So one day I get sick of listening to the blowhard bragging and I call the fire coordinators office and request a copy of his training transcripts. What do I get? Two classes...Essentials and AVET. After an extensive argument at the firehouse I finaly got him to understand that you cant hide behind the term "Volunteer" and pretend to be what you are not. Essentials of back then is the equivilent of todays Scene Support Ops, I told him if he wants to be interior he has until fall to get Firefighter I, FBAA, and Firefighter Safety & Survival, then he has to get checked out at a drill. Sorry for the rant, its kind of jumbled and off topic a little but its something that bothers me. We go into IDLH situations every time we get the call, and yet there are still volunteers that do not hold themsleves to the same training standards as the rest of us, and no one does anything about it. Not me, not any more, now that I am an officer things are going to change in my department. I would rather have 2 or 3 QUALIFIED interiors and have to rely on mutual aid more, than continue to have people with little to no training. Stay safe out there.

My old department has them every April, Regular meeting is the elections, than the "banquet" on the first saturday of the month. My current dept has them in December, and they take over office January 1st.

Great pics Seth, wish you were still here to give me some pointers! Wish the good weather would hurry up and get HERE!! Tired of the cold and snow, want the spring weather!

People are always quick to use "Taxpayers Money" in these rants. We have fundraisers all year long, and not just people standing in the road with a hat collecting money, actual fundraisers where people come in willingly and pay money for a service or a product such as a meal or a community wide yard sale. We than use some of that money (Very little) to throw an annual banquet. Thats not a bad thing. I agree with you though in some aspects, there are some providers (Notice I said providers, not 'paid' or 'volunteer' or 'basic' or 'advanced') that just plain suck. They have no compassion, no skills, no clue about whats going on with the patient and they should be removed from EMS. But to flat out come out and say that all volunteers should go ASAP...Thats not just a humble opinion. LMAO...Great story, Im sure we all were in your shoes at one point or the other!! lol And to ALSfirefighter...There are times when someone is just plain mad at something, and rather than spew out a long and meaningless post attacking someone, we choose to pick our words carefully. Thats called "Self Control", which I use daily. I was merely beat to the punch by chopper who worded his response very respectfuly and tactfully. Which Is why I chose to thank him. One persons opinion can differ from others, and when you say to someone that "Volunteer EMS should go ASAP" thats a blow to everyone whether you like it or not. If he had stated that some providers need to pay closer attention in class and maybe even persue some extra studies to sharpen their skills...I would have agreed 100%. There are providers everywhere that do not even posses the basic skills to treat a splinter, yet they are out there and responding to the calls armed with their trusty clipboards, and they are ruining the reputations of other providers that give 150% every time the go to a call, even the little old ladies that need a hand to hold. I have been both BLS and ALS, I have been an officer for years, spec'd a new rig and got it in service as an ALS unit, worked both as a paid provider and volunteer for at least 16 years now, and trust me...I see the bad ones too. But just because they suck doesnt mean the whole entire lot needs to be removed ASAP. Just the bad ones. I apologise if I offended anyone, I was merely being honest myself and stating that I felt that there was a definite issue with bad providers, and that the transition from classroom to field was where they were being misled down the wrong road of patient care, without the proper "initial" guidance from officers or experienced providers. Without someome to tell them the difference between book smarts and actuall reality, on the streets knowledge...They get lost in the crowd. Stay Safe.

We also do a background check on people through the police, and references, and arson background checks. We also check with employers as well who also have information on people that we cant get. But like EMSer said, I believe it has to do with the crime committed and the person they are. People can change. I wouldnt admit a killer or rapist, but if someone robbed a store, or computer hacking, thats different. But around me, the only cons we will see are cow tippers and inbreaders...

Well put. I have been trying to come up with a diplomatic response to that post, but could not due to the anger. Great post. My VAC can not even buy a decent ambulance to transport patients in, let alone get us a glitzy party with all of the perks you mention. Perks? What the hell are they? The only perks we look forward to are the smiles from patients and the thank you cards we receive in the mail that make us all feel that what we do is appreciated...then we see stuff like what you just posted. You may be angered by the current level of training, or the lack of inexperience, but that is the wrong way to go about venting it. Find a more productive way to vent AND find a solution to the problem. Stay Safe.

Excellent points. I agree totally about the transition from classroom to field being the failing factor in most EMT's careers. That first few calls and the guidance they receive/do not receive is the critical factor. I see too many students that get lost, literally in the field. They pass their tests and feel "Comfortable", but than the very first call is usually on their own with no help from EMS officers or senior providers, and its usually the code, or trauma arrest in the 2 car head on collision that they are baptized by fire with. Afterwords is the feeling of inadequacy, and second guessing their treatments, and "what ifs", all because they had no one to guide them successfully into the field. THATS where the problem lies, within the agency and its leadership. Not the instructors. Another excellent point here as well. BEDSIDE MANNER!!! Where did it go? Out the door to make room for the ego trip! People feel important carrying the clipboard and asking questions. I just let them...While myself and other caring EMT's actually take care of the patient and gain their trust and comfort. After all, you do need a secretary to take down all of the info for the PCR later on, so why not just let that person do it? (Unless they are the only provider on scene, than you should slap them across the head and take the clipboard.) Patients feel so much better when the stranger standing in their home seeing them in an uncomfortable position (pajamas, or in bday suit, somewhat embarrasing) actually has a heart and connects with them, and shows they care about them. Get on the same level, cover them up and show you care, leave the clipboard on the rig, connect with them and things go so much better. I have noticed the decline in respect and bedside manner, and its real disheartning. Good post.

Hello everyone. I just wanted to share that I got a new job with the State recently as a Fire Safety Rep, and my office is in Kingston. If anyone is in the area and wants to stop by give me a shout on the messenger or an email and I will give you the coordinates. It would be nice to meet some of the members, especially for someone like me living in upstate far from a majority of the membership. So give me a shout and stop on by, but dont forget the coffee and donuts!! Stay Safe Moose

Need to know all of the facts about that one before you can truly understand the frustration level building inside of me!!!!!!!! lol Officers meeting tonight... Nathan, that is truly an understatement!! LOL I definately come over the river and through many woods to get to my office! Lots of scary people with banjos too, velcro gloves chasing sheep, SCARY!

Good, just let me know by email or message and I will let you know the address. I also travel down to the Hudson Valley area, I provide consultation in regards to fire safety and codes enforcement and my areas range from Green and Columbia county all the way down to Westchester and Rockland counties. I have a satelite office set up in Theills NY. So It would be nice to meet some of you. Let me know. Thanks!

Well put, and welcome to the site. In all honesty though, this is an age old argument that will continue well into the lives of our childrens children. Just like the other well known argument... Its good to see more experienced EMS people on the site as well, and I look forward to more posts in the future.

Looked like a challenging job. Nice work on the stabilization and extrication. Couldnt have been much room to work in, they did a great job.

I dont know the specifics for this fire so I am clearly not speaking for these guys, but in my experience up here by me, driving into farms, fields, or logging roads is sometimes the ONLY way to get to the fire. I have driven in a fire engine into field and forest many times to extinguish brush fires that could easily have turned worse without water. We dont have choppers (aerial tankers?) so we have to drive it or walk it in. SOme of our departments have 4wd engines, and some dont. We have brush trucks, but they only carry 250-300 gallons of water. If we can get the 1000 gallon engine close enough to use it as a fill station for the brush units than we do it, its an effective tactic, otherwise we have to drive the brush units long distance to a pond, creek, or other water source to refill. Having the engine, or even a tanker with a pump, close to the scene helps out in the long run. Besides...every brush fire has the capability to turn into a major fire, threatening homes, businesses and lives, so the earlier you jump on it the better. Just saying that could be the reason they drove the rig into the field. Hope that helps. Stay safe.

It makes sense. There is a dept in our county whose designation is "11" and the chief radio sign is "11, 12,13, an14"...so when the chief calls on air its "911, this is 1111 enroute to scene"...talk about confusing.

There are also too many "What Ifs" for this particular scenario, as well as parameters that are different with each agency. Like with my volunteer agency we could very well have a crew of 5 people with 2 to 3 EMT's. For this scenario we would be able to drop an EMT with a kit and a radio to start treatment while we responded to the initial call. But in the commercial agency I worked for there were 2 of us, EMT and Paramedic. So as you see it all depends on the agency and the area, and their resources. I agree, if you are dispatched for a priority call, that call has precedence...but I would try to use whats available to at least try and start to help the second patient. Stay Safe.

Interesting topic, a lot of good points made and a lot that...well... I have been both EMT-B and EMT-CC and have seen both sides of these arguments. I have walked into a house where BLS providers were already tending to a patient, and doing well, but when they saw me walk in they all backed up from the patient and stopped what they were doing as if expecting me to do everything. I have been on calls as BLS where other BLS providers moved so slow it made you sick...than want to slap them across the head to get them moving. I have first responded to a call just recently, a female seizing. I got there to find her actively seizing and loosing her airway quickly. I did what I could with no jump bag, than when the ambulance arrived 2 EMT's and 4 crew walk in and just sit there!!! LITERALLY just sat there and looked at me...I had to start ordering them around telling them to get the suction and get a set of ears out and listen to the lungs. Than it was as if they were just awakened from a dream and they didnt know where they were, one guy just started to brag about how fast he made it to the firehouse to get the rig. ( I dealt with him later on) Good patient care is both BLS and ALS working together in harmony. All levels of training coming together to do the same job, get the patient to the ER alive, and somewhat better than they were to begin with. Regardless of whether or not you are an EMT or Paramedic, you should both be able to take vitals, start O2, package a pt in an extrication device, splint a wound or whatever is required. Just because the medic has all ALS procedures done does not mean that they cant help with the rest of the care. I for one am tired of seing medics sitting and watching an EMT try to finish another set of vitals instead of picking up a wrist and taking a pulse (without the big fancy machine that does it for you). Conversely Im tired of seing an EMT just sit back and watch a medic try to spike a bag and place electrodes while in a moving ambulance and not offer to help set things up. I do it all the time. I get looks some times but I still offer. What about working together? Isnt that the best kind of patient care?

I read a lot of you talking about abondonment if you dont stop to help a patient, and just felt like clarifying something to the newer EMS providers. The only time abandonment comes into play is if you start treatment of one patient but than stop without A) Transfering care to a higher level of care or Signing patient off AMA with the PT fully understanding the implications. If you are driving by someone with a bump or bruise enroute to another priority call, thats not abandonment. If that were true THOUSANDS of people would be on the phone daily with their lawyers stating that they have an injury and yet the ambulance just drove by their house and failed to stop. In this scenario I treat the patient thats in front of me. If I am enroute to a call and see numerous people flagging me down for help to assist an accident victim or someone with a medical emergency, I stop, radio in the report to dispatch and have another unit check out the first call. In court I would rather defend myself for what I did, rather than what I didnt do.