firemoose827

Hey Seth, great shots. From the looks of it the fire started on the ground and burned into the eves? Dont know if you chatted with anyone there but thats what it looks like from the "V" pattern and the one pic of the firefighter poking at something on the ground covered in foam, couldt tell if it was an engine or a second BBQ (one right behind him). Looks like a great stop, could have been worse.

My county baffles me, they use a variety of things and its silly. They use plain english when speaking to units in the field such as "Respond incident under control" but have an elaborate (yet confusing) dispatch priority rating system. Alpha- No imminent danger, respond code 1. (Little old ladies who are lonely with the sniffles) Bravo- BLS Non-emergency. (Small cuts and bruises, fallen and cant get up) Charlie- ALS Non-emergency. (not sure if something even qualifies as ALS NON emergency) Delta- ALS Emergency. (Chest pain, dyspnea, diabetic emergencies etc etc) Echo- Everyone drop what your doing and get here now. (Codes, unresponsive pt,) To me, its a waste. Hit the tones and tell us to respond to station. We get a crew and respond, you can tell us enroute what the nature of the call is. Just get to the scene and use the old fashioned patient assessment skills to determine the true priority. For fires its the same thing...tone us out, when we respond tell us the nature of call and let officers determine priority and mutual aid needed. Once on the road its either respond priority or not, its not that difficult a thing to comprehend and does not need codes or priority dispatches. Do away with codes, use plain english, K.I.S.S

I agree. He and many others offer invaluable information on a daily basis for free and most people bash them for it. Does that mean these people were proven wrong and cant be mature enough to admit it? If I could I would hire Bnechis to come to our county and give a lecture or a seminar on firefighting, and pay him all we could afford. As volunteers, we all too often hide behind the term when we discuss the requirements and time away from family, yet when someone as knowledgeable as Bnechis speeks up about the training standards being less than equal when compared and that people may be entitled to a better service, these same people get defensive, and claim we are the same...Im sorry folks but we are not. Volunteers need to be trained to the same standards, plain and simple. In regards to covering calls, we seem to have forgotten about the one most important thing here, the people we serve. This isnt about departments ego or reputation, we are talking about getting a trained response to every call for help in a "TIMELY" manner. Anyone worried about response statistics and call volume and numbers of trucks responding as opposed to number of TRAINED providers able to actually help mitigate the incident responding as fast as possible, realy needs to re-evaluate the reason you are in the service. Its all about getting help where needed WHEN needed, and not a minute later. If your house is burning and your wife/husband is inside, the last thing you care about is the whining volunteer firefighter complaining about his family party being ruined or the fact his boss wouldnt let him/her respond right away. You do expect to see trained help arrive in a timely fashion that CAN help you, instead of 20 well intentioned good hearted people who are not trained interior firefighters that cant save your loved one. To see a group of firefighters in full turnouts standing around unable to help due to lack of training is a waste...sort of like going to an ER for help and seeing people dressed in white lab coats but none of them are doctors, kind of makes no sense right? So why are we still letting newer members with no training ride to calls? Why are we letting ANY member with no training respond to calls with an expensive suit of gear that they should not have? Sorry, end of rant. Thank you for the replies to all who did, and thank you Bnechis for your professional attitude and demeanor in handling some of the insults, your contributions to this site are appreciated by some of us and I look forward to more in the future. Stay Safe everyone.

We actually tried this on a certain level. Years ago, we were toned out to "Chimney Fires" which usually turned out to be false alarms. (People see smoke from the chimney that is darker than usuall and they automatically think its on fire) After a while we would only get a chief and 2-3 firefighters for these calls, and on a few occaisions these chimney fires got loose into the walls and turned rapidly into a structure fire. Suddenly you have everyone and their brother coming to the call, each with their own excuse; "I didnt hear the first tone, must have been out cold" or "I was on the throne when we were first toned" or "I was outside with the dog and my pager was in my bedroom, but I heard the upgrade when I got inside"...yadda yadda yadda. So eventually the county started toning us out to these as "Structure Fires". It worked for the first few months, until people caught on and actually lost manpower for structure fire calls as well, or people would wait for the chief to acknowledge on the air, because the dispatcher would tell the first chief on air that it was received as a "Chimney". So no matter what, you will always get the "Fair Weather Firefighters" that only come to the big calls and never train unless its nice outside (god forbid they get wet or cold on a drill) I believe (in our county anyway) each department, whether its fire or EMS, should just be toned, and told to respond to the station for a call. When the first piece leaves the house with a full crew it is given the nature of the call. I wonder if this would end that problem? These are good questions, dont worry you are justified to ask them. Our department only has 2 person cabs (driver and passenger) and we keep air packs in a compartment on the rig. Personnel will respond to the scene if they hear the trucks leave, and they are instructed by officers and fire police during drills on how and where to park at fire scenes, sometimes blocks away from the call, so they do not interfere. Isnt this a state level issue then, and not a specific department issue? I feel real crappy now, knowing that I may have received a certificate for a class that is worthless. If there is a curriculum for Firefighter I than it should be the same for me as it is for you, shame on the authority that has jurisdiction on training standards for allowing this. I agree, the career school is MUCH more in regards to training and wish it could be available to those of us that want it. I took a number of classes in order to be considered as a Level II Firefighter though and not just the one class (firefighter II). I believe it was Fire Attack, Fire Attack II, Haz-Mat First Responder yadda yadda. Bnechis, who can I talk to to start the change? Who can I most effectively wine to to get oiled? This needs addressed soon. There are times that as a volunteer I feel completely helpless and dont know where to go first. Training has always been a big issue for me but until now have had trouble finding a decent department that takes it seriously. Thanks for all of the great advice given by numerous members in this thread, its why I am a member here.

Ok, I forgot my Dutchess County Terminology Book at home, can someone help me understand what SORT truck is please? Good stop, looks like it was a hairy first few minutes.

This was my thought as well. With the technology today, wouldnt it be possible that the "one" member that was origianlly on the radio called 60 control and told them what the deal was and they decided to dispatch the mutual aid? Just a thought to be devils advocate.

I would have loved to see the EMT starting the line on him when the needle shot out! Must have been priceless! Would warm compresses work to get the air out faster in this case? Open the poors and move more air out. Monitor for breathing and heart issues and transport, and NO OXYGEN! (unless dyspnea present but why fill with more air?)

Vinny, all my thoughts and prayers to you and your family. I only knew you a brief time as your fellow moderator but you were always an outstanding person to work with and know. Let me know if you need anything. May he rest in peace...

Rest In Peace. I knew the Esposito family from when I was down on the Island and I wish them all of my thoughts and prayers.

Sad Story, I wish his family and friends all my thoughts and prayers, and may any other member suffering as much as he did PLEASE seek help from anyone. We are here for you. Rest In Peace...

???????? Care to translate?

I think of tradition as respecting the senior firefighters, ex-officers, and officers around the firehouse, following orders both at scenes and around firehouse, any local in-house traditions such as hazing new members or new officers, having a "Mascot" like a dog, or family picnics and parties. Tradition is knowing your place in the firehouse and acting accordingly, like when you are new, keeping your mouth shut, always volunteering to do all tasks around firehouse, and not act like you know it all. As far as the fire service, it is a constantly changing dynamic environment that needs to change with the times and technology, and any tradition that impedes this forward movement should be re-evaluated and new traditions started. Just because it is "Tradition" doesnt necessarily mean it can not be changed, and new traditions started. Some traditions should become history...But others still have their place.

Agreed about the sirens notifying the community, it happens and it works. The siren on the station is god knows how many more decibles than the "Q" on the truck and some communities have them in key locations through the town, like on the station, than one on a pole near the outskirts of town. A lot of you are thinking primarily from a large district point of view, with big well funded dispatch centers and huge cities that are filled with people who dont give a dam about others so could care less if the siren goes off. Also, these large areas (cities) and large villages also have the capability to send the alert on the text messages. I dont even know if my county knows this exists! My point, in smaller areas like mine with farm land and large protection districts with volunteers spread out, and no funds to buy new pagers for new members, like my dept, we rely on the siren. One guy that responds to everything is a farmer, he listens for the siren when hes in the fields so he doesnt lose his pager or break it in the machinery (which he has done once already). He can hear it even in a running tractor. You need to think outside the box and think of all the factors. Our residents will listen for the siren and than they know to look for the trucks and the chief who responds in their POV to all calls. They have complained to us when it was broken and they couldnt hear it, and were concerned. (Not making it up ) Anyway, Im for the sirens, we need to keep them here. Stay Safe

Just a little additional info, these departments also cover a very large Mall, Colonie Center Mall, and have runs there daily. Two of the departments mentioned as being on western turnpike (Route 20) cover this mall. I believe each of these two stations only have a couple of engines and a ladder, not sure. I believe they do need to merge a few of these departments into a few strategically placed stations.

I was on the assumption it already exists? As task force 7 stated prior to me, the position of "Engineer" has been around in different departments. I know a few volunteer departments near me that are thinking of including this in their list of line officers or have it plan out like they do the safety officer or training officer and just appoint one monthly/annually and make it competitive. It is a great idea, everyone should be proficient in the truck you ride on, everyone should be able to at least start the pump, or raise the ladder. Good points.

Cogs, you make some good points, and before I respond let me first clarify...Im glad the son-of-a-b**** bastard is dead, I believe he deserved a more painful and drawn out death/prisonment with a cell mate named bubba who loves bacon at every meal and lost a loved one during the attacks, but, (theres always a but) We gave him a proper burial following muslim customs because we are better than people like him and we are not at war with the muslim religion...we are at war with the terrorists that mislead people to think that they follow that religion. Bin-Ladden was killed, an attempt was made to capture him first but he refused (thankfully) and they shot him; trouble over. Do we need to desecrate his corpse? No. We as americans are better, more civilized and show more respect for other religions and races, which is what separates us from these low life cowardly bastards that spread terror every day. The muslims have certain burial procedures and we followed them out of respect for them...NOT bin-ladden or his followers sakes. We are better than that. I agree with you about the belley-aching over the use of "Geronimo", I got sick to my stomache when I heard it on the radio this morning. Get a life people...Its a dammed code name. We killed an evil man, so what that we used geronimo as a code name, its not an attack against the indian race or meant as an insult so get over it.

I was at an officers meeting last night and we discussed the purchase of a self-rescue system for our interior firefighters, as well as the drafting of the SOP's for the use of these systems. We are a small department with only a handfull of interiors, but we go mutual aid to a larger department with a large area, industrial and commercial properties, as well as a SUNY college. So as you can see, we are facing some issues in regards to what system we can afford, what system will work for both our district and our mutual aid territory, and what training/requirements to make for our interiors to maintain this. If anyone has experience with this, and maybe has a copy of a generic SOP for the use of the systems I would like to get some advice from you and maybe a look at the SOP so we have something to go on when we write ours. Any advice would be appreciated though as I know there is a vast collection of knowledge and experience on these forums. Thanks, and stay safe. Moose.

I have been a Haz-Mat Tech for some time now and never heard that before. Maybe start by the age old method of "K.I.S.S" and drop some of the un needed acronyms so no one operating the scene becomes confused. Keep the terminology simple and universal, too many people use too many acronyms when they are not needed. Communicate well with the IC and give reports on the scene, the crews, and the support. Make sure everyone has full PPE when in the area, keep all un-necessary personnel out of the warm and cold zones, only entry teams. Make sure no entry member goes in more than twice without full EMS work-up and rehab. Always have a backup team ready and partially dressed in suits ready to respond if something happens. Hydrate the crews often. Monitor for de-hydration and fatigue. Monitor the air readings in the cold zone frequently to insure the incident hasnt spread. Just a few thoughts, hope they help. Its been a while since I was at a decent Haz-Mat drill or event so Im a little rusty. STay Safe.

You also have to look out for "False Neutral", when two wires become in contact with each other and make a complete circuit, even though the power is cut there is still juice in this circuit that can fry anyone. This also happens when the weekend warrior tries to re-wire his/her own house without hiring electricians and they ground it wrong, or wire the rooms wrong...its a dangerous thing. Be careful.

I agree 100% with all above. This will not stop here. I thought about that when my wife woke me up last night so I could see the presidents speach...I felt like I should have been extatic and joyful, yet...I felt almost scared. Like now that we took him out, the remaining loyal "A"holes will step it up and inflict as much damage and terror as possible without any order or leadership, just mass terror attacks from all over. Stay Alert. If traveling, keep your gaurd up and watch for anything. This is far from over and there are other psychotic morons that will take over where Bin-Ladden left off...

Rest in Peace chief. All my thoughts and prayers to the family, and the members of long ridge FD.

I agree. Sometimes, good people get caught in the middle of bad things, or good people do bad things during desperate times like stealing to provide for a hungry family. Everyone deserves a second chance to prove they are sorry, and regret what they did and repay their debt to society, why not allow them to do so in a productive way? These guys ran out into the water and attempted to save lives by putting their own life on the line...do you think real ruthless criminals would have done the same? We have a correctional facility that deals with teenaged offenders and they always come out to large brush fires to help with mop-up. They take the less-violent ones that have had some rehab and train them in wildland firefighting, than they come out and assist us hit hot spots and clean up. We have never had an issue with them.

Rest in Peace...

Congrats on the retirement and best of luck to you! Stay Safe

Excellent advice. I too write grants for my town. I have 2 out now for a thermal imager. We desperately need to get one, as well as turnouts for our members, ours is 15+ years old. Thanks for sharing the info.