ja3kfd

Article: http://www.lohud.com/story/news/local/westchester/2015/03/22/putnam-police-consolidation/25204439/

Tonight, at the State Of Putnam County address, the Putnam County Executive announced the new Commissioner of Emergency Services for Putnam County, Anthony Sutton. Commissioner Sutton is the former commissioner for the Westchester County DES, has held numerous other emergency services leadership roles in the area, and a very good man who I think Putnam County will be lucky to have.
Congrats to Commissioner Sutton!

All dependent on the service your town expects from its fire department. You get some of these tiny towns out west in the middle of nowhere, where you get 2 guys in traffic vests and hard hats because the community contracts its "fire service" out to a couple of yokels in a wagon from 1950 that barely runs.
Are most of our politicians/residents ignorant to the level of service their fire departments actually provide in comparison to what they're paying for it? Absolutely. But I'll bet the same happens for the police, DPW, and education services as well.
All that being said, you're absolutely right. Its not a career/volunteer issue if you have a 100% union career department that only has 5 guys split between an Engine, Truck and Ambulance? Guess what, you can't handle a fire without mutual aid. If you have a volunteer department with 3 stations, 4 engines, 2 rescues, 2 ladder trucks, and 9 Chief cars, but you can only get 6 guys for a fire at noon on a Tuesday, 5 of which are old enough to collect social security? Same deal.
I'm not sure if its reasonable for a town of 10,000 people to pay for enough staffing for a full NFPA-compliant response of 12-14 Firefighters for a residential structure fire. (Source) All the more reason to consolidate to one combination department. Less equipment, standardized training and SOPs, and you ensure that everyone in the area gets the same level of service for their dollar.

Yes we do, but more so we owe it to ourselves to be honest with ourselves. What I mean by this is that we are the greatest obstacle to solving the problem of inadequate responses and until we can admit that truth there is little hope of progressing. Like an alcoholic the first step in fixing the problem is admitting we have one and having the willingness to do what it takes to fix it. Most can readily admit to the first part, that there's a problem, but very few can honestly say they are truly willing to do what it takes to fix it. Oh sure, many will loudly jump on the consolidation bandwagon and proclaim that this is "the answer", until that answer involves them making concessions to serve the greater good. "We must consolidate, but my agenda is more important that yours", "we must consolidate, but don't change my contract", "we must consolidate, but don't touch my apparatus", "we must consolidate but don't take my rank" and so on and so on. Sadly, egos, agendas and a warped sense of self importance makes it virtually impossible to progress out of the tradition of putting ourselves first. And make no mistake we have always put ourselves first, otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion. The public will only get what they deserve when we put their needs above our wants....and that my friends is a tall order indeed.

Like I said, I agree it should have been municipal employees not a contract service.

Yeah, you hit the nail on the head!
PARENTS! Not the school, not the FD, not the government.
Good for you!!!

I agree that the ultimate responsibility lies with the parents and that more parents should take a more active role in their children's lives. This does not mean, however, that the school system and the FD do not have a responsibility to the student. We entrust the schools with teaching and caring for our children, if we aren't educators ourselves I don't think we really have the right to second guess every one of their opinions on what is best for a student to function properly. Wouldn't you want the school to take an interest and say something if your child was falling asleep in school all the time? It shows that they are actually invested in the child's future, isn't that a good thing? As far as the FD, we often take members 16 or 17 years of age who still have a year or two of high school left, that schooling should be their main priority, it's going to serve them in whatever they do for the rest of their lives whether it be firefighting or not. 16 and 17 year old children shouldn't be the backbone of our firefighting service, in fact they shouldn't even be interior members. The immaturity, inexperience, and feeling of invincibility that all children have is something that needs to be monitored closely. I'm not saying that some of these kids won't go on to be great firemen, I'm saying that they need a proper education and careful mentoring from those above them in the fire service.
P.S. If anyone takes issue with me referring to 16 and 17 year olds as children, let me say first, I get it, I didn't want to be considered a child then either, it took years for me to realize what a jackass I actually was. Second I will paraphrase Kurt Vonnegut who once said that in this country boys and girls do not become men and women until they have either served in a war or graduated college and entered the real world.

From the Westchester EMS Facebook page

How about etiquette in general? How many parades have you been to where you see guys in uniform with their shirt untucked, tie falling off, hat all crooked, drinking beer? And some ff's wonder why the publics perseption isn't always favorable. Ever see military personnel look like that? Nope, because there is respect for the uniform and what it stands for.

If you don't say something to them, you are not helping anything. I say something to the tool bags wearing sunglasses, and the party ribbons on their lapel. I don't give a $h1T if someone gets offended.

Sadly much of the fire service etiquette seems to be slowly fading away. And those of us who have been around awhile are to blame. If we look the other way when members act disrespectfully or distastefully then the fault lies with us, the "older guys" who should know better. I more often than not find myself at odds with both the younger members and the admin of my FD, as I always speak up and see to it that the nonsense stops when members Facebook or Twitter or act disrespectfully at solemn or formal occasions. When such situations arise I hear the standard lament, "it's not 1980 anymore, it's a different time, you can't expect guys to act like they did years ago, wah wah wah, blah blah blah. I'm so f><king tired of that lame ass BS excuse. As I see it here's the deal, there is a right way and there is a wrong way to conduct yourself when in uniform and that goes doubly so for when we're present at funerals or other significant events. I think many will agree, but I also think that beyond agreeing we have to act when we see the wrong way happening...if we don't who will. I joined my first FD at 16 and believe me, my friends and I were hellions in the extreme. The older members made it clear what was and what was not acceptable....just as it had been made clear to them before us...and they made sure we learned exactly what that meant. I truly am thankful I had men like that around to show me the way...and sometimes do more than just show...because I came out a better person and a far better fireman for it. No matter how many volumes of the latest new age, progressive, politically correct management theory drivel is shoved down my throat I KNOW that what I learned and how I learned it is what works best and is the right thing. Society might be crumbling all around us and there may not be a helluva lot we can do about it outside our world, but in our world we still have control...so when guys need straightening out it's up to us to do just that. 10, 15, 20 years from now those same guys will be thankful we did

I saw this 13yrs ago at Ground Zero. Guys taking pics of each other I/f/o/ utter devastation. Are you friggin kidding me? Yeah that's it, let's take one of the worst days in American History and turn it into a photo op! Morons!

Sadly, I do not think a class on etiquette would have much impact. This situation has more to do with common sense, or the lack of.

Sadly, it appears another new "trend" is coming out of our technology boom. It appears that a funeral is now becoming a "look at me event". Reportedly, many uniformed firefighters were taking cellphone pics throughout the processional and such. Many don't seem to understand that taking pictures for their Facebook page makes a solemn day of remembrance appear to be about the wrong people. What could and should be a large silent presence to honor the fallen and show the family, FD and community that we are one in brotherhood appears to be just another excuse to get out of town a drink and show off their hero costumes. Disgraceful. Too bad only those of us on the inside readily see the difference between those in uniform and those in hero costumes.

Kind of amazed at the level of misinformation presented here. The basic facts are:
The Somers Fire District did originally end the WEMS dispatching contract as of 12/31/13. At their request, they extended the contract twice, currently slated to end 9/30/14. WEMS agreed to this for the benefit of the district and the town. This gives them the needed time to fully switch to 60-Control, which is the current plan. The plan for WEMS is to re-locate our dispatch center to our HQ where it can better be managed at the end of the current contract.
Prior to WEMS being contracted in 2002, SFD employed their own dispatchers. They felt rather than continue to manage staff, it would be beneficial to outsource for personnel. The staff is shared between the two services which saved SFD a considerable amount of money rather than having dedicated dispatchers. In addition to dispatching, the dispatchers provide a considerable number of services including monitoring security cameras for four stations with over a dozen pieces of equipment. They also help manage the LOSAP system, state reporting, and possibly most importantly they provide a 24 hour emergency presence in town, since there is no full time police department. This was well appreciated with the recent storms of the last few years.
The SFD continues to evaluate the costs and benefits of using their own dispatchers, with WEMS, or switching to 60-Control. There's really no "drama" or "controversy".

Nice to see a factual, non-biased, and non-opinionated answer. What a concept!

Both.

We do both, depending on the situation, either drop ponds and do shuttles with mutual aid tankers or lay from the scene to the water source or vise versa, on our E-1 we have 4,000' of 5" hose, we also have to 2 manifolds we drop at certain points (every 1,500 feet, or a incline ect).

Interesting issues.
1) The case proved that the Village of Tarrytown clearly has no defense again its willful violation of the law. I suspect the next and final step in this story will be the litigation against it by the families of those who died. I suspect the payout will be very large.
2) The Village has "NO CONTROL" over the actions & operation of the fire department is no defense. If you have an FD, you are responsible for its actions.
3) If your Fire dept. does not have a written policy that clearly instructs all members that they must understand what a confined space is (confined space awareness) and they are never permitted to enter or if they are permitted, they must have the original & annual training, equipment, and the written procedures or you are violating the law.
For 18 years before this incident, OSHA has used this exact scenario to describe how workers and rescuers die in confined spaces. Hopefully the many depts. that do not comply with the law have taken notice and corrected the situation. This incident should never have happened, but I am sure it will again in some community that fails to learn from this.

Budgets are deceiving. You're talking about Operating Budgets - what about Capital Projects and their related costs?
We are a municipal fire department, funded by the Village of Croton-on-Hudson ($532,213.00 for 2013/2014). We provide services to the Mount Airy/Quaker Bridge Fire Protection Districts within the Town of Cortlandt for about $262,572.00 per year. Our "operating budget" shows a line for Workers Compensation of $79,268.00.
So in essence, we have a budget to work with of $452,945.00. Since the Town of Cortlandt give the Village $262,572.00 each year, we really only cost the Village $190,373.00. If you look at it this way, we are only 1% of the Village's expenses per year (a budget of over $18M).
This is basically our Village giving about $200,000 of Village Tax money to us to run a department of about 150 members, averaging 17 members per incident, staffing six apparatus, three command units, two boats & using three stations.
I'd say we're a pretty good bang for our buck.

While this looks like a good way to determine what is spent, it is very deceiving. What is in each budget may not include many items.
As an example when doing a comprehensive budget comparison of 2 depts. a few years ago:
Dept. X had 30 career members and a budget of $16m
Dept. Y had 50 career members and a budget of $12.8m
Now both pay similar salaries, so in theory Dept. Y's budget should have been about $29-30m.
So how is this possible? Dept. Y's budget did not include the following:
Pension ( Paid from the HR Budget)
Health Insurance & other insurance and medical costs (Paid from the HR Budget)
Fuel, Fleet maintenance, Station maintenance, Utilities (Paid from Public Works Budget)
Hydrant Rental/Cost (Water Dept.)
Fleet Replacement (Capital Budget)
Computers & phones (IT Budget)
Contract Fees (legal Dept.)
Grants (Development Budget)
Without understanding the budget its a meaningless number.

In NYS they are. And that's been reconfirmed by the courts a number of times

Yes was put in service Monday around lunch time

I say offer it to your members , but not mandatory , everyone is entitled to there own thoughts .

Good old quota systems working for America....