antiquefirelt

How about meeting with PD supervisors and explaining why we block the raod? Show them that not only are we safer they are too as well as the public. This is what worked for us. Our meeting turned in to a bunch of PD guys talking about the numerous close calls and clips they had at accidents and traffic stops. Ask them why the traffic has to get moving? What is the major outcome? They need more help to redirect or control the scene? Tell them to bring this up next contract time, let us speak on your behalf. We support your need to better control the traffic and the need for more cars on the street.

I agree there are times when everyone can just go to the sidewalk and make our the paperwork and open the lane. That makes sense to me other than teh PD guys who are now walking around taking pictures out in the roadway with no barrier. But this is their issue not ours. Just recently we were at a scene to check that a car wasn't on fire after an airbag deployed (cop thought the wheel was hot?). No injuries, no EMS. We block the lane and investigate the car, no fire, time to clear. Meanwwhile the PD is interviewing the witnesses and occupants on the yellow dividing line at night in the drizzle!! So as you can see common sense ain't so common.

1. Who honestly cares if the PD has or doesn't have standards for when they are taking care of traffic? I for one don't. Nor do I , my point is that we don't have any reason to do any traffic control, why would we when we have more important duties and if we did would be held to a higher standard. 2. While the chief has responsibility for overall public safety, that does not make the scene "my scene" or the "fire departmetns" scene. PD is still responsible for the investigation and documentation. Here, once the FD is called and arrives the safety of the public is the responsibility of the FD. Of course the PD doesn't forget this is also their responsibility, but they are not equipped to help other than traffic control. (No ESU in our state) Investigation and documentation are not priorities while traffic is buzzing past personnel and civilians at the scene. 3. The comes down to common sense and many still do not get it. Its not about you, its about the people we serve. ALL OF THEM, the ones on the road that didn't have a problem as well. Ah, the cops arguement to keep traffic flowing. Well I'll bet that most of the people sitting in traffic are not having as bad a day as those involved in the accident. In 20 years in this business, I've been bumped by cars passing through scenes, I've seen a drunk pass three cruisers, a fire truck and an ambulance then stop when an officer yelled at him, we've had cars take mirrors off ambulances awhen they were watching the scene and not the road and the number of other close calls is ridiculous. So I really don't care how long people have to wait for the road to open if our patients or personnel are in the roadway. What is an MVA for the FD....9 times out of 10 you are doing an EMS assist. Facilitating the removal of patients for EMS and mitigating any hazards to them and the person involved. Lets not lose focus. Again, in our little piece of America, the FD runs EMS. The engine is an essential peice of apparatus at an accident scene as a large blocking barrier. Of course it would be rare to see more than one engine and maybe a squad if the Jaws were required, so some of the overkill is not an issue for us. But, are we assisting EMS or is EMS assisting us by transporting our patients? As you previously stated the end goal is providing the fastest most professional service to those in need.

Up here in the Right hand corner, the Fire Chief (read FD) , by law, has the ultimate authority at accidents scenes to ensure the safety of the public and personnel. Unti recently this has conflicted with many PD's who feel that keeping traffic moving is the most important issue. The next problem started when some Fire Chief decided to get a law introduced to mandate fire depts have traffic safety training and special equipment to block traffic or otherwise direct traffic. On the surface this seemed smart, but now we have a mandate as to what must be done, what must be deployed and what we must wear if we are controlling traffic in any manner. The police have no requirements! We have to wear vets put out cones determined by the posted speed limit and carry large pink signs, the PD? Nothing, stand in traffic with dark blues and nothing else if thats what they want to do. Our dept. decided we won't direct traffic at all. THis means no one waves anyone through or turns them around. We just block off the lane or road and go to work, immediately requesting PD control the traffic. For the most part, the PD understands and agrees, having themselves had numerous close calls and can read how many officers are hit each year (many more than FFers). Once in a while this rsult in some ruffled feathers but we have yet to have anyone arrested or even threatened with arrest, and we do maintain our safety zones until we leave. While I can understand an officer's need to control traffic safely, I would refuse to move any blocking vehicle while any of my personnel or civilians were still in the roadway or needed to go into the roadway (retrieve stuff from the bus or truck).

Career guys live and vote in the town where they work and pay less, putting more money back in their pockets. Vollies have an incentive to stay and work in the community and are more available for runs. Town makes out by not having to hire more paid staff, but keps the Union somewhat apeased by offering a peace gesture (affordable housing). And while I'd be very happy to have more personnel per shift in my dept. I know realistically this would not hire enough to fight "the big one". Day to day a few more staff gets the job done more efficiently, ie: smells and bells, FP duties, housework, room and contents. But when there's a big fire and you need lots of help, those extra three guys per shift aren't gonna cut it. The answer is to find a way to get enough career staff to run safely and effieicently (more than 3 per apparatus) to most of the jobs without cutting off the volunteers who back you up.

With the number of houses and apparatus in the Westchester area, like L.I. it seems that (from afar) a regional combination dept. could cut duplication, increase service and still save money. Given the density and money there a PG Co. type dept. seems like a decent model. But, this is a rarity in most parts of the country. Generally consolidation and regionalization is service driven, not cost savings. We too have struggled with creating incentives for our POC members becuase the total money allocated for 25 of them is less than the cost of one of our career staff. Of course the POC guys live in town vs. most of the paid personnel who do not. Our guys make enough money to want to buy a house with some grass and trees in the yard, but this is something that cannot be afforded in the town where they work!

Well as long as it works for you! No sense to change a thing until something happens. Heck, I probably don't need my seatbelt since I've never been in an accident and don't plan on one. With all the indications that driver inattention is a major cause in MVA's why would you argue for more things to do as the driver? How about keeping your hands on the wheel and feet on the floor by the appropraite pedals? Certainly some rigs are set up beter than others but I cannot see any good reason the person int he right hand seat shouldn't operate the siren. If the difference in how traffic moves is dependant on the speed in hich the driver changes the siren or operates the horn, he's driving to fast!

First I couldn't agree more on how many calls are "over responded to" when non-emergency would not effect the outcome. But I will argue that there is a need to have the driver focus on driving, not making whoop whoop sounds with the siren or talking on the radio, JUST DRIVE!! This is obviously even more true when responding to a true emergency "hot". For those drivers that feel the need to drive fast, talk on the radio and run the siren I say, " Go buy a Playstation! Maybe when you grow up you can come and be a professional. We don't need any more dead brothers and sisters or innocent civilians. Many of you are holding the rest of us back from being seen as a true profession, when the public percieves us to be a bunch of overgrown kids excited to make loud noises and drive real fast.

Obviously there is confusion because a real TRUCK does not have a pump!!! LOL!!

This is the NY Roof hook if it is the all aircraft steel model with the pry end. With the FG shaft it's the All Purpose Hook. The combination roof hook has the NY end wit the Boston rake at the other end. Our new TL carries: 4-6' NY roof hooks 2-8' all purpose hooks 2-6' Boston rakes (Boston jake rack?) 1-6' San Francisco hook 1-6' Eckert Hook 2-14' New Yorker tipped FG pike poles 2-10' New Yorker tipped FG pike poles 2-8' New Yorker tipped FG pike poles 1-36" Griff Hook (NY Roof hook with strap)

Badges and bugles do not command respect and followers. You still must earn your firefighters trust. Think before acting on personnel matters, often you only get one side of the story and jumping to act and needing to recant will undermine your respect and authority. Being and officer is a huge responsibility, truly, peoples lives are affected by your decisions, if you don't know something ask!

So aqt what point can't the chief go in? What if he's the first to arrive along with poorly staffed engine? Or how about a well staffed company? Is the officer in charge the IC until relieved? Does he go in? While we all know the seniormost or best trained person should be in command outside, this business is very dynamic and cannot have an absolute rule as: Chiefs never go in.

TPWS: Trust me I didn't mean or believe that you can't fight fires with fog nozzles. All said and done, I'm sure more fire is extinguished each day by fog nozzles. I just think we need to try and dispel some of the myths in this age old debate. As has been stated quality firefighters and good leadership make the fire go out better than any one tool.

WHAT????? More fire requires more water, not more psi! Fighting with fog in this situation would be like climbing down the breach of a loaded gun. Please provide something to back up this claim. I have yet to hear anyone from the FDNY say they would ever use a fog nozzle off a standpipe. Using fog on a standpipe requires a low pressure nozzle, unless you specifically buy them, fog as are not low pressure! Whats the pressure on the standpipe at the 20th floor anyway? Hows the TFT gonna work at 40 psi? Trust me, it'll look good, but looks aren't everything. What would the need be? Ever watched the fog nozzle on a LPG fire attack? The vortex created sucks the heat and flame right up to the nozzle teeth! Or maybe you dip the fog down and the heat and flame comes up over the top and is sucked in by the intense air movement? This can happen in a building too! While fog does have its place (LPG, gas, hairspray) years of misapplication of Lloyd Layman's teachings have done our job a great disservice. It was nover intended for direct attack! Jumping on the smooth bore band wagon should have nothing to do with anything but "because it works!". So FDNY is the varsity team? I guess I'd agree, you don't make varsity sitting on the bench. Likewise, FDNY uses what works for them, which should work for many others since fire burns the same way in NYC as in Boston or Podunk! Some people need to get rid of their petty jealously of the FDNY guys and realize they do see more fire than most of us and have a much larger R&D effort that can try out new things in actual fire conditions, not the artifical burn room in your concrete trainig tower. Why must we learn all these lessons for ourselves? Can't we learn from each other? Do we have to have LODD's to realize the same tactical issues others have? Sorry brother but I had to call BS on this one.

Our meters read CO in PPM and % LEL is based on the calibration gas (LPG). Our procedures are very similar to ALS Firefighter's. SCBA on back all the time, don mask at 35 PPM. Occupants warned to leave at 9 PPM, requested to leave >35 PPM. We also bought CO meters for all EMS kits to warn us on the flu-like symptoms. Additionally, we run the new Massimo RAD that reads SPCO!! Very cool! Non-invasive CO/blood readings that the Hospital will believe. This could have convinced the pregnant 19 yoa girl who we made leave her apt. after finding reading over 180 PPM! She didn't want to go to the hospital to be checked out. It took about a half an hour to convince her of the dangers of CO to her and her fetus. With the RAD we could show the level of CO in the blood and made a more convincing arguement.

While we're not in Westchester or NY, our city figures 40% for benefits above salary. As the person responsible for calculating the payroll budget I find this is pretty damn accurate.

[attachmentid=1384] I know that you can see 46/27 from the Highway(I95). You're looking down at the building on the left (heading south), can just make out the sign over the door and the flag as its close to the highway enough to block the full view from the southbound lane.

I have a bunch of info that we used to present to our council and taxpayers regarding the benefits of a tower vs. stick. Why we needed one in the 100 ft. range vs. 75 ft. Your welcome to it, just send me your email or PM me with it. We also put together a preformance spec package and tested all demo units for our needs on our streets. They all had to make certain corners and hills to ensure we could get it around. We measured the distance from the body of the truck to the leading edge of the bucket when it was within 6" of the ground at 90 degrees to the body. We requested wall to wall turning radius's. We measured setup time, max and mim. footprint. Over height and length were factors, as was angle of departure and "tailslap" (mid-mount). The bucket had to have a lip around the three leading sides and max. sq. footage was measured. of course it could have nothing that would prevent us from working off the lip to vent or otherwise keep weight on the bucket vs. the building. This killed the Sutphen for us as they hadn't released the new SP100 with flat bottom. We ended up with city coucilor who headed a fundraising program that garnered $200K+ so the taxpayers were able to save a little dough. This does not come without serious skeptisism but we're taking delivery of a new tower next month, so hopefully all's well that ends well.

No offense intended Capt, just a few of posts regarding 70 ft. and buildinging heights and no one mentioning there's more to an aerial's length than building height. From the scuttlebut around there maybe new generation of Metz coming that addresses some of the issues we American jakes have with their trucks? While I'm not much of a Metz fan, they seem to fill a niche, of which your situation may fall within. I know we ran a Sutphen Tower as a temp truck for about a year and one thing we hated was the protrusion undert the bucket, which only one of their 100 ft. models is without. It makes it impossible to cut the roof without being on it. Also you have to be close to straight on to windows for rescue as their buckets have one center door in a flat faced bucket. We were also not impressed with the finish quality of the new Sutphens, when we were speccing our new tower last year.

I've got to say, I firmly believe that video can be a great training tool. Properly done to record responses without affecting anyone's responsibility to the response, I think that you can show good driving habits vs. poor habits. Filming the scene provides invaluable documentation of the conditions on arrival and fire progression or hopefully regression. We are fortuneate enought o have a dept. photographer who takes stills at almost every run (not EMS) but moving to video would be a huge benefit for training. And if you're scared what will be caught on tape, then you're already wrong!

All our footage has been shot from a dash mounted cam. In the future we hope to install multiple fixed cameras for taping the response, the scene and the crowd.

I can't help but point out that height is not the only consideration on choosing aerial length, especially with a tower. Setback distance is a major factor. A 3-story building's roof may be inaccessible if it is far from the street.

What's up with the Interspiro SCBA??

This too has been done. Well maybe not oversized plates, but KME has one button deployable jacks. I've yet to hear anyone who has them say they work well though. I think a few others have this option also.

Done! I saw them the other day when we got an oil delivery at home. The truck had front and rear hydraullically deployed chocks on the drivers side, as well as On Spot chains. I figure our oil dealer now considers home fuel oil "precious cargo".