antiquefirelt

Not to be too harsh but we need firefighters to understand and support sprinkler systems to ensure these laws get passed. Sprinkler heads will activate far before the fire consumes much, typically 30 seconds in to a spreading fire, when the heat reaches a mere 130 degrees. Systems that are off the municipal water system typically use a 275-300 gallon water tank and an electric pump to supply the requisite flow (two heads for design requirements). I have one sprinkler contractor in my area that will can sell this tank/pump set up for $1000 on top of the typical piping and design. The point it to be able to supply two heads until the occupants can escape the FD can arrive, about 10 minutes. Statistically, one or two heads put out most residential dwelling fires if equipped and cut the property losses dramatically while reducing deaths and injuries to nearly non-existent. Our 'Burg passed the sprinkler requirement in NFPA 101, for all one and two family dwellings in December 09. Yesterday the Maine State technical committee on the building code decided 10-1 to not require sprinklers even though they're adopting two codes that require them. Ours will remain until the politicians feel the heat and cave.

It's hard to tell what you're saying here, but I think you are generally supporting the medics actions as going above and beyond typical duties. I'd agree it should not be downplayed as no big deal as any firefighter would do the same. We could only hope that was true while knowing sadly far fewer would have acted so selflessly. I think maybe your wording sounded almost over the top and sarcastic. So if you are actually supporting this mans actions I'd suggest the following: I would not call what this firefighter did a "stunt" and I would say that with the training and knowledge others here attribute to this man, I'd say that it was not "total disregard for his own life", but a calculated risk/benefit analysis requiring quick actions with significantly increased risks to his personal safety to save another's life . And not to take anything away from this selfless act but a Presidential Medal of Freedom? I wouldn't want anything from a man who won the Nobel Prize for not being George W. Bush. I think the respect and praise of his Brother's is far more fitting. maybe a nod at the Firehouse Magazine Heroism Awards?

To be absolutely clear our senior men are those firefighters with the most time on our FD and holding no rank. There's one per shift and without a doubt the previous posters have really spoken to the best traits a senior man can have. But like so many other jobs, our senior men have positions have lost some position power due to the reduced age and time on of the total crew. Years ago, we had numerous guys with 20 plus years OTJ, now not one career person has over 17 years in this department! The seniormost firefighter has just ten years. These guys still do a good job, but the lack of fires and the heavily weight of EMS has sidelined a lot of tradition. Our senior men are basically responsible for teaching the new guys everything they can in-house, while the proby is still married to the LT outside the bricks. If there is any question about how something is supposed to be, the senior man is the first stop. In our case in the absence of the shift Lt., the senior man (not the seniormost man) completes the daily log, otherwise it's left to the A/C to complete. In my specific case, my senior man is ex-military which has a huge benefit, because he truly understands what it's like to do your job well, even when you don't like the task. He's great to keep the bitching to a low roar with a quick look or "STFU"! In a day where so many new people know so little about real work, a senior man who motivates the crew is a big plus. And of course you'll not see the term "senior man" in any written policy or guidelines. The position is one born out of tradtion and respect and has no contractual benefits, though the actual merits are palpable.

Testing for promotions would go a long way toward breaking down the career/volunteer barrier. Appointments and popular votes are a black eye in the volunteer fire service. Not all the officers promoted this way are bad, by any stretch, but it does leave a question as to the competency of the person. In our FD, when I started we had 8 call officers who had been promoted through appointments, no testing, yet they held rank over firefighters and lieutenants who had tested for their jobs. The first call division (POC) positions tested for, still only tested FF II skills and knowledge. The tests for career lieutenants require a significant amount of study in leadership concepts, tactics, building construction and of course proving your previous FF knowledge has not been lost.

It seems a good part of the TSA's screening is just a facade. I've seen all ends of the spectrum of screening quality, sometimes in the same airport day to day. The on thing that is standard, is that there seems to be no standard. Flying in and out of DCA this weekend, it will be interesting to see if this incident has any effect. BTW, wouldn't it be easy to leave matches in your pocket and pass through a metal detector vs. putting them through the X-ray where they'd possibly be seen?

From the standpoint of an officer in a small department I can tell you that it is often difficult to change the past. In a small FD, everyone knows you, your past successes and more importantly-failures or weaknesses. While most people cannot actually change who they are, some can excel when they get a new start. Sometimes this is at promotion time. I've seen guys who spent to much time as firefighters become bored and subsequently less motivated, who when promoted excelled at the new challenge. Others have been passed over for the same reason. It would be nice to be able to lift a guy upon promotion and place him in a new environment. At the time of my first promotions testing process, I had already passed on one due to being just barely eligible on time. I had seen many officers and knew what I liked and didn't like in an officer and was determined to use that to mold myself as an officer. Of course seeing and doing are worlds apart. I had to learn many lessons the hard way-by screwing them up! The stuff we study for on testing day is by far the easiest part of the job. I'd go to incidents all day every day, even complete the paperwork, but dealing with people and personalties is by far the most difficult part. Dealing with divorcing firefighters, one who are cheated on, those in bankruptcy, or those who are bored with their job or life are the real challenges in firehouse life. Treat people how you'd want to be treated. Most of our guys are adults (legally 100%) and should be treated as such. There are more than 5 ways to do almost anything, yet some officers feel the need to micromanage every task to have it done their way. I'd much rather set an expectation level and have the crew accomplish their tasks safely and efficiently. How they get to the end result means far less as long as it was safe and within a reasonable time frame. It's like making sausage, you love the end result but really don't want to see how its made! As a boss of bosses it's a little different. You're responsible for the leadership of a much greater number of people and tasks and you must rely on subordinates to run these tasks. I tell all Lt's under me that I expect them to be advocates for their people. They must enforce our rules, but should always be looking out for their personnel first. I expect some push back from these guys on some things, it shows they're advocating. I also expect they know when to say when and how to move on and bring the crew along too. With regard to leadership, I've always liked the model that goes like this: Tell them the task, clearly explain your expectations, give them the tools and latitude to get the task done, and then get out of the way. If they fail, look at where you failed. Did I set the expectations clearly enough? Did they have adequate tools for the job? Was this within the scope of their abilities? Only if you can answer yes to all three of these should beyond yourself for answers. And in the end, hold yourself more accountable then your people. Similarly a success is their success, not yours. Don't worry your leaders will see you passing the praise as easy as they see you stealing the glory, selflessness benefits everyone, selfishness rarely serves anyone well.

Not that I don't agree, but wouldn't that basically make any diplomatic immunities * and void? Then our diplomats won't be able to drink and drive in other countries! Maybe this also prevents our guys and gals from being prosecuted for some of the crazy laws in other countries? I think the point of DI is to make them non-prosecutable for most of the same crimes as you an I. Definitely send him home for good.

It's a damn shame, period. Sadly we've typically come to expect less from volunteer outfits so the sting may not have hurt much, but unacceptable amateurish operations as firefighters of any sort.

At first I thought maybe he was trying to hide under a glade of grass so no one would see him as that forcible entry circus unfolded but alas, it looks like he was doing what he knew best about firefighting, Stop Drop and Roll.

That was painful. Where to start is a good question. I hope no one here sees anything here in their own FD's. And I thought the rules requiring paid firefighters in FL would have a positive effect, my eyes are now opened.These guys graduated a career fire academy or some sort of firefighter 1 training of some sort? Sad.

I agree with your last statement. The minimum wage thing doesn't bother me. The way I see it, as minimum wage increases, the cost of everything follows: Now the orange picker gets more money so the orange grove owner has to mark up the cost of his oranges. The guys loading and unloading the oranges get more money so their boss charges more for warehousing/shipping. The store shelf stockers get a raise so the supermarket marks up the oranges to cover their raises plus all those that came before them. The result, oranges are more expensive and everyone paid over the new minimum wage that didn't get a raise now has a higher cost of living (or at least oranges). Now think about every other employer that has minimum wage workers and look at who bears the brunt of paying for these raises. Raising the minimum wage is a short term feel good that hurts more people than it helps and continues a vicious cycle of abusing the middle class.

As seen on Firenews.org: Quote of the Week Let me get this straight......we're trying to pass a health care plan written by a committee whose chairman says he doesn't understand it, passed by a Congress that hasn't read it but exempts themselves from it, to be signed by a president that also hasn't read it and who smokes, with funding administered by a treasury chief who didn't pay his taxes, all to beoverseen by a surgeon general who is obese, and financed by a country that's broke. What could possibly go wrong? "Maxine".

So they're creating a new tax to reduce the deficit and calling it healthcare? It will contribute to each of one our personal deficits. Why not charge just what is needed to implement this foolishness? More back door politics from either side. One term without a doubt. He's ensuring a Republican will be seated next in the White House as his predecessor ensured his seat.

Here's where I get lost. How do they intend to collect said "fine" from those whom we are paying everything else for? Or is this just another tax on the actual working people who are not insured? The illegals already have the free healthcare given to all other US citizens: just show up and we'll treat you. Now we'll collect some money from those already paying enough to help expand these services to the same people but beyond ER visits. Going to the doctor will not make these people need less healthcare down the road, living a healthier life is the answer, and I'm willing to bet the number of people who would actually have done differently if they "just knew" is fairly small. Cause people don't already know smoking causes cancer and respiratory issues, or eating crap and not moving causes heart disease and stroke. yeah, add in some free visits to the clinic and we'll save money! Nice pipe dream.

I will give you that the IAFF has openly supported Democrats in every national election since before I was a member. They never asked us a damn thing, they just used us numbers as political weight. Oddly, it is often said the IAFF is one of the largest unions made up of mostly republicans. Nonetheless, while the IAFF may not give campaign funds directly, the bright yellow IAFF support t-shirts featured prominently in every democratic presidential rally in the last election. But your railing that the Union's bring more harm is slightly misplaced. The unions must do whatever they can to assist their members as employees, just not necessarily as taxpayers. Not to mention supporting Obama care, normally would be likely to help with another union cause down the road, though I think this road will be ending at the end of this term.

Sure it does for those in that situation. No one wants to see people not get the care they need to be healthy. Even the notion that healthy people will cost us less over time has validity. But, the problem is that there are tons of other cases that do not warrant the same open-mindedness. Far too many abuse the systems we have and far too many of those are not in this country legally. Develop a system that actually helps those that have no other means and really need it, but don't make me pay for everyone who doesn't want to work and would rather call an ambulance "cause it's free" vs. a $7 cab when they have a sprained ankle. So with the national healthcare program, what will keep smaller employers from offering insurance. The management of employee benefit insurance costs money and they can now offer their employees anther $2/hr and stop offering healthcare (passing the costs of to all of us).

I agree it will help a lot more people than it will hurt. The problem is that a large percentage aren't even American citizens, yet the ones hurt will be 100% taxpaying Americans. Again, the people who work hardest to get a head will be penalized and forced to "rescue" those who either don't work or we pay to work a little (yeah this one kills me). It's amazing but someone I know very well who works part time who received every dime plus more back in federal taxes this year! More than she paid in! Guess who's subsidizing that? After all was said and done 15% of my total earnings went to the Federal govt this year. How about a flat tax? Maybe around 10% of gross earnings with no loopholes? Time to change this country around a bit. This healthcare "system" will be a huge mistake by the time it's even up and running and then we'll have "too much invested to quit". And BTW, no one gets turned away from the ED with an actual medical problem. Our EMS units run these people to the ED daily with no mention of costs and no payment of the bills, and we still do it with a smile and professionalism. My point is, in many areas there is no mistreatment or withholding of care regardless of insurance. This kind of forced socialism causes further prejudice against those who are less fortunate and/or jobless and/or not American citizens. I consider myself a decent human, but it's difficult to be so kind when your constantly being taken advantage of.

I look at NFPA like you note for OSHA, PEL and DOL. They may be the only national standard for this industry, but if you looked at how many of their different standards are actually widely adopted, you'd see they really may not be as much a factor. They certainly can wand will be brought up in court, but likely very few have large widespread implications due to mass acceptance. 921, 1001, 1403, 1971 and 1901 seem to be very commonly accepted nationwide, while others are much spottier. In this case, Boston has allowing a lesser level than full pants and coats for many years, and we must assume after the big unhappy mandate of full PPE in Chicago, they were able to develop some data showing that it increases some negatives that outweigh others. Most others would have a very difficult time showing similar quantifiable data due to a lack of overall sample numbers.

It's not like NFPA means anything unless a specific standard is adopted by the individual states either. In my state, the municipal employees are covered by the state DOL who closely mirror, but not always word for word, the OSHA rules.

Somehow, I doubt that's 100% accurate. Good point! We call her: SWIMBO (She Who Must Be Obeyed)No, I just chuckle and ask the question why 5 is better than 3 for span of control when the NIMS-TTT instructor say this. I think the standard answer is "because the government says so."

This is the standard that's being taught. At 3 you need a specific leader at greater than 7 you need another layer to ensure you can limit the span of control. The funny part is that while 5 is in the middle and considered optimum, would 3 actually be optimal? The least number of outside influences on the person the easier it will be for them to focus. Less than 3 and you should be able to work it without naming the position. Anyway no disagreement, but a little pet peeve about NIMS "optimal" vs. reality.

That's a decent question. It's easy to Monday morning quarterback based on my own area, but I'd have little chance at knowing all the little details of Hartsdale, that a fire officer has to use to make these decisions. I'd say I wouldn't want to delay getting water on the fire 99% of the time. If this was going defensive from minute 1? Maybe the delay would be worth it. Again, from my limited view on Google Earth, I'd look at positioning the first due engine near or in the driveway to allow a 50-75' section of street out front for a 100ft. aerial. That doesn't account for laying an LDH line in to augment a poor hydrant out front. Trust me, on any given day we all have to make decisions and live with them. Sometimes they truly are the best for the situation at hand, other times we realize later some of the alternatives we hadn't considered or accounted enough for. That's why this business is not a science, but not quite all an artform either.One of the points here is that officers have to make snap decisions based on the conditions they see in a very short time, with not even half of the information they wished they had, and accounting for what they already know. Often this falls back to what's worked or not worked in similar situation in the past. The fewer experiences to fall back on, the harder the decision. Again, I'm not trying to find fault with this job, merely peaking into how we as the American Fire Service do things, similar or differently regions to region, state to state, town to town. On the roof sheathing, I was interested in that we have relatively few slate roofs. But in a former life, I was a carpenter and we built one McMansion with a slate roof. The slate roof company required that we skip sheath the roof. We also did this with wood shingles and it would stand to reason that after breaking a few slates off the fire would rapidly open the vent hole for you!

Yes, it looks like FD's practice that PAR can only be done on the lawn or in the street. Our process would be to conduct a PAR via the radio with all crews. As BNechis said, we count on firefighters remaining on task when a MAYDAY is received. All of the reasons we have crews inside are actually magnified when a member is in trouble, and definitely not readily abandoned. We still must ventilate to facilitate fire control, visibility and relieve untenable conditions. We must control the fire to limit the damage to the building and improve conditions for any citizen-victims, as well as our member with the MAYDAY. This is why we have RIT/FAST, so we can keep operations moving forward while also providing for the assistance or rescue of our own. This doesn't preclude members in the immediate area from coming to a members aid, but it should be with the knowledge and approval of the IC. This brings up a good training point. Most often we see PAR being conducted in conjunction with an evacuation drill. Maybe this sort of instills the wrong message. Maybe running a PAR in the middle of a standard live fire training would change this underlining belief that we need to be outside to conduct a PAR?

One might say a failure to properly and effectively implement something constitutes failure? I don;t think we're disagreeing here. Maybe I look as ICS differently. It seems many people see this as a tool that gets used as needed for larger incidents. My FD uses this for every call. We don't designate a "named command" for EMS calls, but pretty much everything else does. But ICS is more than filling boxes and passing out vests (which we do very little of). It is a whole organizational system. Everyday our personnel are assigned to an officer who reports to a higher officer who reports to the Chief of Department. For us, ICS begin here. My firefighters don't come directly to me, they go to heir Lieutenant, who in turn comes to me. We are small enough that this formal structure isn't absolute, but it is formal enough that outside the bricks, everyone know who give them their assignments and who they report to. No vests need 99.9% of the time. The use of position titles as in NIMS helps when the routine alarm turns into more, with off duty, call personnel and mutual aid responding. Rather than rely on unit numbers or voice recognition, your assignment is what you're title is. ie: first floor, attack, roof, exposure 2, safety, etc. the detail depends on the incident. It works on all incidents. So many of you are using ICS, you just don't call it that. One person is in charge, call him/'her what ever you like, thats the Incident Commander. Someone else is in charge of the crew that is attacking the fire. This is the company officer or attack officer. Firefighters report to the officer they're with and assigned to, that officer reports to the officer in charge of the area their in (Sector officer?) and that officer reports to the IC. Basic incident command. i'll bet most of you use it on most incidents. In fact I really don't know how things get done when there truly is no sign of ICS at an incident? My "brother-in-law" runs an EMS service north of us, and they have no command structure and everyone just shows up and does what is necessary. They don't play well with others though. In the end injured people get the appropriate care facility but it's like sausage, the final product is good, but you don't want to see how it's made.

Interesting point. I've not had an issue with First and Third, though I can imagine it with SCBA on and other background noises. In our case, this is why we stuck with numbering the sides of the building and exposures vs. using letters, as A,B and D all sound too familiar. Of course the phonetic alphabet corrects this. This of course, require us to use First, Second, Third, etc. Another case of studying other places problems and trying to learn from them as well. We shouldn't all have to learn these hard lessons first hand. Next drill I think I'll run some word games w(ithout telling anyone) to see what it sounds like.