antiquefirelt

Because the FD has large nearly immovable objects to place between you and other motorists for your safety. I watched a drunk one night weave through three marked units (lit up)while he gawked the scene only to stop when there was no room for him to get around the engine. He looked completely surprised that he couldn't keep going and even more surprised as he was dragged through the car window and cuffed by multiple officers. The stories of personnel, EMS, FD, and PD being struck at MVA's is endless, and the risk is far greater than a one or two apparatus response if teh FD has any type of responsible driver training program. A few places in MD this might not fit...

Again, good info. As I noted I'd not recommend ignoring threats, but I have to say I'm torn between watching our country let these bastards win the easy victory, by forcing us to change to the point that our citizens are protesting each other. We're federally funding huge dollar amounts to combat a very small percentage of threat compared to the number of persons affected by common crime and fires, yet we continue to see fire and police departments slashed to less than bare bones levels. It is a fine balancing act to adequately protect ourselves from the threat of terrorists, and maintain our open society where utilizing mass transit or attending prolific events is not so complicated that we'd rather stay home. As for the IRA, they learned to warn people as in their earlier years they lost huge amounts of support when so many innocents died. This in no way changes their acts as terrorism, but somewhat puts them on a different level than Al Qaeda, et als. The radicals we fear today are much less likely to share common Christan values such as not taking the lives of children.

We have the "no one turns us around but us" policy. It's not a slap int he face to our PD, but basically an acknowledgement that they are there for other reasons than we are. We slow our response, even call off multiple units, but one bus always continues if injuries were reported at any point. This does a few things: one it absolves the city of liability incurred when a non-EMS provider(LEO) agrees with a victims' self-assessment and is wrong about their medical needs; and two, we're been called countless times to "PD Only" accidents where the LEO is onscene for 20 minutes and suddenly the pain sets in and EMS is called. Of course we do not have 4 units responding or even multiple houses, so mass confusion at the scene is very rare. We don't give criminal advice, LEO's don't give medical advice, and everyone is capable of reporting fire or smoke showing. And we do not respond to all MVA's by any stretch, PD handles probably 60% without us, we only respond when injuries are reported or fire/fluids/etc. are an issue.

Nor would I want to be the police chief whom signs off that the area is safe. What level of detection is minimally adequate to clear a school or Walmart if you think the device may have been set by a pro? Canine search? Trained officers? We're all just passing the buck until it arrives at someone's desk who will assume the liability. For us it's the state police bomb unit, in more metro areas, and perhaps the suburban NYC area, there are more of these units and training. I do know that the number of school threats forced a change in the system as our state is "resource poor" in this area. While I will accept your information at face value on the notes/warnings pre-detonation, how many were able to be stopped or evacuations caused that led to saved lives? I'm not advocating ignoring threats, merely pointing out that for every heightened level of security, there is a marginal win for those who seek to force us to change by the use of fear.

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile.

I don't think the rural, suburban or urban really should make a difference, as the benefits of an initial conditions report can be realized in any setting. What I hate hearing is the Holy Shiite! tell them to expedite calls on the radio! We get these from M/A FD's, EMS unit and PD a few times a year, and the response I give is always, "We're already travelling as fast as is safely possible". Point being as much as the initial report can help slow units down, the screaming banshee chief's tend to send many into adrenaline overload, and who can blame them when their chief is setting that example. Progress reports really depend on what you're looking to get out of them. We likes them to document certain benchmarks, but given the small size of our FD, they serve little purpose otherwise as if the incident is much as all (working fire) a full recall has happened and crews are listening to the tactical frequency. On the other hand, requiring the progress reports does force the IC to review benchmarks and to put an actual time frame on the operation. I know firsthand how fast time goes by at a working fire, I'm often amazed out how much time has passed when we're cleaning up and some says the time.

I find that quite cavalier, considering that most bomb units don't see or treat suspicious packages this way. I think the post you noted quoting an NYPD bomb guy, he was more likely inferring that a true bomber with any training will disguise the device well enough that no one will know it's a bomb until it's too late. Thankfully the idiots we've seen have either been radicals somehow angry enough to try something far beyond their ability or patsys sent in to test the response and in fact cause fear without needing a real detonation. Here in the little old state of Maine we had two Walmarts closed and evacuated yesterday (one the day bfore as well!) because someone wrote "BOMB" on the mirror in a ladies room. Again, I kinda know we can't ignore these things, but really? Do we really think someone who's going to blow up Walmart will warn them? I'd like too know the number of actual devices found worldwide that were preceded by a note or warning. look at how many schools shut down and evacuate from bomb threats. Here are American kids capitalizing on the fear that we think some might really try and blow up a school. Now in this area after numerous bomb threat disruption days, they move kids from one side of the school while teachers look for bombs, then switch the kids to the other side until it's cleared, then back to class. Why even bother?

Interestingly enough, the fact that we have everyday citizens reporting the errant left bag or oddly parked car, is proving that the terrorist have brought changes to our country through fear. Not to say we can afford to ignore these things in todays world, but for some radicals that alone gets a check in their "win" column. All they have to do to keep messing with our collective minds is have some low budget hack make a feeble attempt and we react by locking ourselves down. Look at the turmoil caused with the TSA stuff. All this to stop someone from blowing an airliner from the sky, which likely would have less loss of life than a mass gathering bombing, which we do little to prevent in comparison. Does anyone really believe another single aircraft will ever be taken over and used as a weapon? Even common folk won't ever let that be a reality again, but would rather die taking out the terrorist than being used as a WMD. Many terrorist groups loathe our freedoms, thus even these small acts cause us to give up our freedoms a little piece at a time. The subway attacks in Madrid led to questions of subway security worldwide (not to mention the Tokyo attacks before that). Times Square now has some thinking twice about mass gatherings and visiting high profile targets. One professor who lectures in Anniston, Alabama noted that an attack in the heartland may be imminent as it would shake the feeling that the majority of Americans living outside metro areas are safe.

We staff both the EMS rigs and the fire apparatus so the answer to me is obvious that an apparatus roll every time EMS rolls. We do this to maintain a safe zone for the EMS crew to work. The police in our area are also overtaxed and generally cannot fully manage the traffic and work the accident, thus it is in our best interest to block the travel lane(s) that our crew is in with a substantial object (fire engine). This also provides more hands to board victims or obtain sign offs. A neighboring FD used to respond only at specific request or when entrapment was noted upon dispatch, for the reasons of "burnout" and unnecessary responses. Now they respond to any MVA with injury and turnouts are no less than every before. Having been clipped by a passing motorist at an accident with three PD units on scene, I'll always argue that the FD provide a safe working zone. At the rate officers get struck, I can't understand why they tend to be so upset with traffic vs. their and our safety.

When I noted checking credibility, I was referring to a credible threat, not necessarily what looks like a bomb to real bomb techs. For instance, a small white powder in the parking lot at a business in the southern part of our state shut down a major business park and area roads for over 6 hours a few years ago. Within the same week, our FD (we're also a HM/WMD RRT) was called out for white powder int he drive thru of a bank. Of course we denied access, cordoned off the immediate area (our Main St. merchant area) and then begin the assessment. We (with PD) very quickly identified no credible threat, and re-opened the bank and streets, total time under 1 hour. Within 2 hours we'd identified a teenager who'd watched too much Jackass had flour bombed his dad's pick-up who then went through the drive-thru, we can only assume to get quarters for the carwash. No threatening letters, no law enforcement secret notice of a threat, no angry former employees and no real concern that anyone would drop their Anthrax on the pavement of the drive-thru. One might ask, why do anything at all, but in reality we must use these calls as proof our procedures work and to reassure the the public that we take their vigilance seriously. If we're going to dismiss reports out of hand, short of seeing the stereo typical terrorist with a black bomb labelled as such, then we'd might as well not ask for help identifying things that are out of the ordinary.

I'm not even going to begin to think that outside the metro areas, the threat is at the same level, but there are plenty of non-metro areas that will become much more likely targets as the current ones become "hardened". Chances are the device itself limits the number of innocents hurt, not the number of persons present, as we all have numerous places and events with more people than the average terrorist can kill in one shot. It's hard to convince people in the heartland that New York City with all it resources need an over abundant amount of their tax dollars to remain safe from terrorists, while they cannot fund their own public safety. Try convincing broke people to pay more to protect "icons and symbols" of american life. Of course within reason the money must go where it can protect the most persons, thus the increased funding to metro areas.

Can't disagree anywhere except to note that the implication of this thread was that the missing size-up was more of an initial report. It's awful hard to determine the arriving personnel have not done a size-up to formulate a plan.

We have found that unless the IC announces he/she is the IC, the dispatcher will call the highest ranking officer they've heard on the air. With the establishment of a "named command" on the radio, the dispatcher reverts to calling "command" vs. unit numbers. This allows the COD or other officers to pass command or not take command with no confusion. Of course as we should all know, not taking command or passing it to a junior officer does not absolve you of responsibility. This is one of the issues I take with the outcome of the Lairdsville training fatalities, in that senior officers at the incident who should have known better and taken responsibility were not held to the higher standard that should apply. But that's a totally different argument for another day. As for size-up, our FD requires them for anything short of medical calls (which do get "progress reports"). We have taken the construction type out, in favor of a more concise, corrected location, relative occupancy size and type, visible conditions, needs and establishment of command type initial report. We found that using some common sense also was in order. Now, instead of a "large non-combustible mercantile occupancy" we just say "Home Depot".

While many of us probably can agree that lesser targets may be just that, there should be no excuse for not taking the job seriously and at least using it as a procedural rollout. Where we live on the mid-coast of Maine, chances of a target are slim to know, but... Just north of us in a smaller town, a Neo-Nazi was building bombs, thankfully his wife could no longer take his abuse and offed him, the investigation revealed significant potential for this guy to have caused an incident of national importance. I think it was in Time magazine just a few months ago. Our Haz-mat/WMD team has run on numerous suspicious package, powder, odor incidents and they usually ramp up fast and then terminate quickly too as the threat credibility is zilch. Each incident is run like the threat is there until it is dis-proven. Obviously, in an area where threats are so low, it may be easier to take this approach, but the general consensus is not "if it happens again", but "when and where it will happen again". We should be more vigilant and efficient than we ever were in the past.

I'd agree when it comes to just "snapping a pic" when you aren't planning to be taking photos, but the inability to focus on subjects at any distance is a major downfall. While you can use the digital zoom, the pic quality on the view screen quickly diminishes. To each there own, but as someone who take tons of photos on vacation, my phone most likely will never replace my point and shoot 20x optical lens with image stabilization.

This might be a little "wishful" thinking on the part of Smart Phone makers. PaS cameras still offer much better options for people who want to take quality photos. PaS biggest strength may be the true optical zoom which is next to impossible with a phone sized platform. In fact PaS offers real competition for the pro-sumer market of DSLR's, given that the average person can get a greater lens range in a PaS than any moderately priced DSLR lens. Once you get above the 300mm zoom, the SLR lens prices are out of the range of the average consumer, yet the PaS allows wider and longer lens without ever having the wrong one on the platform.

This very well be a reality. Remember the building stock of the Northeast is far older than most of the "progressive" places nationwide. Standpipe system design has changed to allow/utilize outlet higher pressures. Nonetheless, you first have to prove to many that CAFS can be delivered reliably. Our CAFS demo failed to work on arrival!

It is somewhat apparent that when posting you need to point out which type of foam you're speaking of Class A or B or CAFS. Clearly there would be no gain to Class B in a high rise situation even if it was possible, which clearly it is not short of purpose built systems. Class A may be beneficial as a "water maximizer", but then who are building high rises in places with inadequate water supplies? I suspect CAFS would lose it's bubbles in the standpipe system piping reducing it to a very expensive class A system. We run three engines, one with a Class B around the pump system, one with both the B around the pump and a direct injection Class A system and the newest with just the class A direct injection system. Class B: It's used far too infrequently to maintain operator efficiency. Both trucks carry 100 gallons of AR-AFFF 3x3%. We store more, but in reality it's not enough for anything more than saddle tank spills/fires. The third and newest engine was specced with just a portable eductor in hopes the region would see the light and purchase a foam trailer so we all could stop putting these systems on the truck and then not use them. Class A: We tend to use this mostly for wildland type jobs and some wet downs. Some shifts have some guys who run it on every fire, others never. For a portion of our coverage area there is no municipal water so we specced this in hopes we could see the "water maximizing results". I doubt without a well planned demonstration of water vs. foam, we ourselves will prove or disprove this, with far too many variables in any given fire. As for pros and cons of on-board systems: expense, maintenance, upkeep, infrequent use leads to foam gelling, if you have to fill from the top, it's slippery and dangerous, class A is super easy to use, class B is nearly the opposite and lasltly, most trucks will not carry enough foam for an incident of any size.

While it's the largest, there have been numerous other studies showing consistent favorable results. Like so many other medical products (drugs, treatments and equipment) the results seem to vary. Right now, this is the only pre-hospital product available to assist in ruling in CO, and with many medical directors and respiratory docs putting their faith in the device, short of an FDA recall, I doubt you'll see these fall out of favor. Of course the negative study, proves why all of us should be highly skeptical when signs, symptoms and known exposures do not produce anticipated results. Treating the patient rather than any device is wise.

As I noted a few posts back I found the option on Life Pak's website, thanks for the education. That being said, my original post was commenting on the difference in the numbers: the concentration of CO in ambient air vs. the carboxyhemoglobin measurement. One of the first posts gave some good info on the blood gas number, but could easily have been mistaken as very inaccurate numbers for PPM in air.

Officership doesn't start or end on the fireground. Having the top spot filled with someone who cannot understand the country we live in today, whether we agree or not, is foolish and harms the FD as a whole. Not to mention failure to follow a directive by the Mayor. Immature and amateurish are the best I can sum this man's actions with, both adjectives I'd never want used about a Fire Chief.

Thanks, I looked the Life Pak page with the options for CO monitoring. So can the LP15 CO reading be trusted any more than the RAD-57? Same technology, same maker? Our success with the RAD57 has been in two cases using it to convince people who were exposed to high CO levels to get checked out. In both cases the victims wanted to refuse treatment/transport as they were "fine". In both cases we were able to convince them using a device that told them they had abnormal levels of CO in their blood. Not every just "goes" to the ER when they feel fine, especially those worried about how they'll pay for it.

I think you'd better study up on the CO in air part. Look at the OSHA/NIOSH permissible exposure limits. These are time weighted averages. A short term exposure to 35 ppm is nothing, in fact many home CO monitors/detector won' t alarm until 50 ppm. It certainly in no way is a one for one ppm in air to blood saturation reading. If it is, it merely a coincidence. As BNECHIS stated 5 ppm in air is pretty common in most smokers homes, in basements with fuel burning appliances, or in many industrial settings. I think you're confusing the RAD-57 reading with the blood gas results which most often should be very close, but neither measure the CO in air, which are the numbers BNECHIS was trying to clear up. Your post was right on the money given the CO in blood readings, they just cannot be confused with CO in air, which does not directly correlate. It is possible the FD readings you're noting are RAD-57 CO oximetry readings, not the PPM in air?

Are you sure this is CO monitoring and not End Tidal CO2 monitoring? hadn't seen CO monitor, but quite likely as Massimo makes the Pulse Ox stuff for the LP 15, so no stretch to imagine adding their CO oximetry to it I guess.

Remember these are all time vs. exposure based. In actuality, OSHA sets the permissible exposure limit at 50 PPM over an 8 hour day, NIOSH reduces that to 35 PPM with a 200 PPM ceiling value. The Industrial Hygienists call fro a 25 PPM TLV over an 8hr day for 40 hrs a week. So as you can see a limited exposure to a low concentration may not manifest into any signs or symptoms or issues. Of course the age and size of the human must also be considered.