antiquefirelt

I hope we all agree there must be a higher level of personal accountability. I'm pretty sure I and others understand your point of view and aren't disagreeing, merely pointing out that sometimes it's not about just judging everyone as an individual. It's a nice thought, but the reality is the public very often doesn't do it, and it's they who are holding the purse strings and they whom we need to educate so they can see what the politicians are doing to the safety of their community. We all should be very aware that there are countless firefighters who are dedicated professionals to the craft amongst the volunteer ranks as well as far too many schlep-rocks amongst career personnel. I know the personnel in my department have had endless conversations about personal accountability and not doing anything at all that could hurt, especially during difficult times. It's not that these things shouldn't be the norm, rather than requiring special attention, but it kind of forces every member into policing each other as we all know the consequence of harming our public image.As for improprieties amongst career FD's? Of course there are, we like most of the work force, hire humans and have yet to figure out the perfect testing to ensure we keep out those who will end up doing harm. The problem with the knife cutting both ways is: Does it really? If some career guy is busted selling drugs does it harm the volunteers so much? Not likely, the public has a special place in their hearts for those of us whom they pay with their hard earned dollars and then we screw up. If the same guy is a volunteer, they'll blame the economy for his lack of work and the need to augment his finances. Much or all of this flap was in response to Chief Flynn's statement that he'd like to see the story corrected to show the senseless actions were that of a volunteer chief. Most career jobs are trying to step up their games on all fronts to ensure the public sees them for the professionals they are. It's difficult to do this when the non-career departments are a large segment that cannot be managed and fight the very standards that would level the playing field. While most of us do not wish to drive a greater wedge between career and volunteer firefighters, at times like this we see the need to differentiate. While career personnel seek to differentiate themselves from people like the volunteer chief in the article, I'd think most volunteers would like to show the public why they and their department aren't like the same guy?

You're still missing the point as you're seeming to take the message personally. Career FD's are struggling to maintain safe staffing levels, budgets are being hacked, members are being forced to give up significant pay and benefits to remain on the job, only to face deeper cuts the following year and politicians will say anything to be "that guy that finally cut taxes". So while these FD's struggle, the public is assaulted with misrepresentations and half-truths about the FD. Many of these are just generalizations about firefighters. The general public doesn't see the difference between volunteer/POC FD's and career staffed ones. Thus every bad piece of press any firefighter creates hurts the fire service as a whole, especially fueling those politicians who seek to use anything they can to make cuts.There are few other fields where volunteer services or those with significant different oversight are compared without regard to their career counterparts. Can you imagine using the term US military to describe private contractors like Blackwater or Triple Canopy,etc.? The career fire service unlike most, but not all, VFD's requires unbiased testing for hiring and promotions, we require far more hours of training, requisite driver training, and a host of other issues our POC/volunteer brethren seem to be able to skate by without, or reduce the contact time significantly. So when we're fighting uphill battles and trying to show the public what they get for their dollars, we take offense to those things that tarnish the public's view. The general public doesn't know a good job from a bad one, if your FD can arrive in a reasonable amount of time and not look like a monkey F-ing a football, they'll probably thank you, even if you burn their house down with poor tactics (career or volunteer). It seems that there are some good and great VFD's, but by in large those are fewer probably not due to hard work and dedication, but due to lack of proper funding as a whole, this is what makes having a VFD so palatable to the public: their low cost and they must do a good job (they just can't tell). Sure there are career FD' that suck, and good ones with companies or individuals that suck, but based solely on basic requirements, this they're fewer. As I've said before, I started as a volunteer and am confident in saying I've worked with some great firefighters that I'd be glad to work with any day, some far more than some career firefighters I've worked with and for. The biggest daily difference that gives our career staffing a leg up is the constant working together, starting with a deeper knowledge base as a rookie and then working shift after shift as a team makes for easier success than the typical POC/VFD. It's not disparaging to the Volunteer FS, yet a realization that when this is your vocation you can't help but gain knowledge and experience a faster rate in general. So when some fool crashes in a POV or chief's buggy on the way to a fire, passing another member responding to the same job it makes us all look bad. The simple fix would be to require the same standards for training and disciplinary actions, but that's been fought tooth and nail by the volunteer sector, so the alternative is to show the public there's a difference between the career FS and the volunteer FS. Funny thing is none of those things that increased were exclusive to the volunteer FS. The career job also is required to keep up while doing more calls. Maybe you think many career FD's had a lot of down time so these things came and we just fit them in around our leisurely schedules? That's certainly one public sentiment often fueled by misinformed people and worse, volunteer firefighters (why? I can't fathom other than not making the grade?) My job is constantly being forced to come up with more policies and training for things that the VFD's all around us aren't accountable to. Yet we're threatened with fines by the dept of labor if we fail to comply. So while that brush fire, car fire, structure fire, MVA or whatever isn't going to be any different just because you're volunteers, there's high likelihood the outcome will be. Lucky for all but a small percentage, the public will still think you did a great job, and instead of the converse (stupid POV accident blamed on generic "firefighters") the career FS will be shown why volunteers can work "as good" but cheaper. It appears some can have their cake and eat it too.

Are you saying it retracts up or does moving the aerial around cause the sensor to lose down pressure forcing a "reset"? Our ALF will lose down pressure with enough movements, requiring an override once in a while. Thankfully I've seen this happen frequently in training and never on a job. I recall trailing a used Scope once and watching the outboard radial outrigger lift off the ground over 24" when the bucket was low and fully extended!

I know up here in the hinterlands, a member responding to a page for an incident is covered by the FD's insurance (at least when provided by ME Municipal) and therefore is assumed to be "on duty". This along with the requirement to have "red light permits" that give authorization to use these devices, make for "tacit approval" by the Fire Chief and ultimately the town or municipality. I would think that nearly every jury of 12 would say that if a firefighter is responding to a call and using emergency lights, he/she is acting on behalf of the FD and as such place them high on the liability list. It's the dept's responsibility to ensure their members respond safely to calls for service and dismiss members who fail to comply.

So much for "Discipline in private, praise in Public". Or does this Chief have no actual leadership/officer training?

Chief, nice to see you pop in again, and a great post as usual. I have been reading this thread with some interest really based on reading posters views on ethical behavior, I could care less about the NY mass transit system up here. Chief Flynn's point should be taken to heart by every member in every situation where you're "given" some sort of "special treatment". We work for the public, thus benefits such as those being discussed here are paid for by them. For every free rider the rest of the paying customers must pay a little more. Locally we have a parts store that gives MOS a 15% break on all parts. I recently had the pleasure of needing parts and went in after leaving work and was wearing a job shirt. Upon check out I was told I was being given a discount for being a FD member, which I graciously declined to no avail. The clerk noted they do this for all emergency services personnel and that oddly enough the career FD personnel always attempt to decline and are very gracious, whereas many others show up in street clothes and demand the discount, making complete asses of themselves and their department (fire/EMS/PD whatever). There are many other places that will try and offer similar discounts, and e hope the response from our members is to graciously decline and explain just what JFLYNN posted, in the long run this will serve your dept better.

When we first decided to try a fitness trainer we hired a local pair who ran two classes a week in the evenings for the whole department at a fixed cost. We made the very first night a normal drill night and used it as a "fitness test" that put a large number of people into a state of shock that they weer so far out of shape they couldn't keep up. Really only those who had a fairly consistent exercises routine or very highly active "passed the test" without struggling. Others kept up but agreed that it was a lot harder than they thought and they felt it for days after. This was the bait and most came to feel it out, of course the number that stuck with it over the years is far less, but those of us that still participate are committed and see a benefit. Those that really did the classes with ease tended not to join the weekly group, and those who needed it the most and had the hardest time, save a few, also didn't come to the weekly program. Our trainer is great and she changes the routines fairly often to keep them from being boring, but the same few key elements remain: 5-10 minute warm-up, a combination cardio/ strength training circuit for 30-40 minutes and finished out with 10 minutes of ab work and stretches. As for my personal take, I know the first night nearly killed me and I was in pain for days after. It proved I needed to start doing something more regularly. After the 8 weeks of the City sponsored program I was no longer feeling the painful after aches for days, while the intensity had gradually increased. I'm 100% confident that my recent shoulder surgery and subsequent rehab was far better having kept up the program for the past 6 years. I'm far from athletic still, but my balance had improved greatly which was challenged with my arm in a sling for a month.

Our department has a local Personal Trainer who comes in twice a week and runs 1 hr interval training. Each member pays $10 per session and the department provides the place and equipment. As was noted above, just buying equipment is not enough. We've had numerous machines, bikes, treadmills, benches, etc. but their use was really up to a few self motivated individuals. With our personal trainer, more people have committed to being there twice a week (just a jumping off point). Part of why we can do it on the cheap ($10/pp/hr) is the number of people that come. We've had great response from local trainers as due to job changes, pregnancy or other we've had three different ones all willing to work for peanuts to help out. While exercise is only one part of losing weight, the other benefits of being fitter are important to firefighters. Just improving balance and core strength helps you stay upright far easier when operating on uneven surfaces, ice, flowing hoses, etc. etc.etc. Our department has a local Personal Trainer who comes in twice a week and runs 1 hr interval training. Each member pays $10 per session and the department provides the place and equipment. As was noted above, just buying equipment is not enough. We've had numerous machines, bikes, treadmills, benches, etc. but their use was really up to a few self motivated individuals. With our personal trainer, more people have committed to being there twice a week (just a jumping off point). Part of why we can do it on the cheap ($10/pp/hr) is the number of people that come. We've had great response from local trainers as due to job changes, pregnancy or other we've had three different ones all willing to work for peanuts to help out. While exercise is only one part of losing weight, the other benefits of being fitter are important to firefighters. Just improving balance and core strength helps you stay upright far easier when operating on uneven surfaces, ice, flowing hoses, etc. etc.etc.

Those would be even better if they were done in 3D!

I seem to have no issue posting and it seem just as fast as ever, the only issue I have had has been with editing a post? And just now I edited this post with no trouble. I'm thinking many of the little things will work themselves out in short order.

Vehicle fires 101? The very second that video started the first thing that pops to mind is: significant downward slope and you don't anticipate a flow of fuel? This might hurt. When I first red this in the hard copy magazine I was dismayed by the feeble justification for not donning PPE for any alarm:"Fire crews typically will not don turnout gear on such “nuisance” calls as, more often than not, the alarm company calls back with a disregard." While the article shows the one Capt. wouldn't accept a lackadaisical attitude, it sort of shows that the "rest" of the department and it's admin do. Maybe it's a little difficult to find fault with crews dressing down, when the admin drops alarm calls to single engine non-emergency responses. "The South Bend, IN, Fire Department, in the interest of preventing potential injuries and fatalities that are risked by sending multiple rigs from several stations with full lights and sirens, decided to change the response policy several years ago to send only the nearest pump company, without their lights and sirens." These guys are starting way behind the "8 ball" with a poorly staffed (like so many of us) single engine responding to an activated fire alarm, to then have to gear up on arrival is amateur in my view. Anyway, good for Capt. Severeid who despite what appears to be everyone else accepting mediocrity, required his crew to perform professionally on every call. It's foolish at best that some people are totally surprised and caught off guard when they are called out for a fire alarm and actually find a fire.

So, am I the only person that's never been issued a "warning point"? (insert googly eye emiticom here) I seem to have the honor of being the only one in this thread that has a line under my first post date that says "0 warning points issued"? No one I work with would ever believe I was too softly opinionated to not offend anyone...

Works for me! Everything seems to be working well from where I sit. I like it.

Sadly, to make matters even more difficult, the HR people will tell you that modifiying behavior in certain people's presence is still wrong and constitutes wrongdoing, likely on the part of the department or officers. They'd like everyone to be proper and polite 100% of the time, period. Chances are if someone doesn't like something, they can win a suit or settlement and the FD or whoever will end up looking bad. Very few civilians will understand the "Hey it's the firehouse, things are different here than everywhere else in", 2012. This is one issue where both "sides" will never be happy, so finding a balance is key.

I definitely can attest to the SCBA making the dismount far more challenging from a cramped Officers' seat. I much prefer donning the pack on arrival front the relative safety of the ground.

I too like the rep point system, is that going away permanently or just part of renovations? While the rep points can be swayed by popularity I suppose, I see them as a way to validate what you're reading. Like so many other places there's a ton of info here, not all good, but mostly. One thing I always instruct personnel on is looking into who is doing the writing? The rep points tend to show the poster seems to have some validity, looking at some of those with high rep counts like ALSfirefighter or BNECHIS, we can see that those who tend to be more informative and experienced tend to be repped up. I think this is good for new members and those seeking information. Nonetheless, so far so good, I haven't noticed anything that I don't like.

There is certainly a lot of talk on this topic. Many FD's have switched to non-SCBA seats, presumably for the exact reason you noted, firefighters donning them while enroute and not being buckled in. In my view, this is a local FD disciplinary problem not an industry changing necessity. I'm highly confident my FD that uses seatmounted SCBA has at least 98% of it's personnel belted on every run before the apparatus leaves the apron. It's not been an option and all personnel know they will be disciplined for any violation. This could include the offender, the driver and the officer. One problem with removing the SCBA from the seats is where to put them? As has been said, storage space on new fire apparatus is some of the most expensive real estate in the world.

I'm not disagreeing width was an issue, my point is that commercial cabs literally don't save enough width for that to be an actual factor. Most bodies are at the widest width and the widest point is still the mirrors. All of which come down to a few inches, yet you make the distinction these few inches change slowing for oncoming vehicles or not? Again, maybe you guys need to provide a safer cab for the inevitable?For example: Rosenbauer on FL M2 = 98" wide My link Rosenbauer on International = 101" wideMy link Rosenbauer on Spartan Custom = 100" wide My link HME custom chassis engine = 96" cab, 100" body 123" wide mirror to mirror. My link HME on International Commerical = 100" body, 102" mirror to mirror. My link

Somehow I doubt this is really the case. How much slimmer at the widest point is a Freightliner or IH or any other commercial than the narrow model customs? If anything we're talking inches, not feet, which is quickly a huge disparity in turning radius lost. Our two custom cab engines (one HME SFO, one Spartan Gladiator)will turn circles around our shorter length two door commercial chassis engine. Not even close they turn so much tighter. And if you're adding in for a four door commercial chassis you're going to need 40 acres in comparison. When it comes down to it, the only reason to go commercial is cost. Given you're concern about road width, I'd say you may be more likely to end up off the road, thus I'd want to ensure my crew the best possible outcome by putting them in a purpose built custom cab as they tend to hold up far better.

As BNECHIS posted there are alternatives that allow for a true bumper while also allowig truly deployable attack lines off the front bumper. One of the things we like about the load style chosen in BNECHIS's picture is that it allows the line to be stretched off the front instead of to the sides, where typically there are far more obstacles. This has always been a problem with cross laid loads in tight areas such as some city streets and private driveways. Our bumper holds two 200 foot preconnects in the double donut load that allow us to rapdily change to a line anywhere from 50 to 400 feet long, while still remaining a true bumper.

That is not a new innovation. It maybe a new KME option, but innovation? Not so fast, there are tons of apparatus out there with this or similar hose troughs.

I know in our case if we need to cut the power, then it needs to be done right now, end of story. If it can wait, it's likely not necessary at all. As with anything we do, you should have a specific reason for doing it, not just a blind checklist item. Sure it's easy to tell people to follow checklists, but over time this will end up biting a FD, as opposed to teaching the why part as well.

Ball busting is large part of every day life in the firehouse. Most days things that are said and done would likely shock many people who don't work in places where the bond between employees is actually far more than just that. That being said, anytime the jokes are so pointed that you know they're hurtful to the person or you're saying/doing things to inflict pain then it's gone too far. I've seen it happen with a couple of guys hammering each other back and forth until one's a little pissed and goes to far. Also, it's one thing to joke with the person, but when you're whispering it in the corner and talking about whatever the issue is without the person present, likely it's no longer joking. This topic may be what I consider one of the hardest parts of those is a supervisory role. The PC stuff hadn't really come to our FD before I started and we've long busted stones on a daily basis. We also were all male and totally devoid of any ethnicity and nearly devoid of any strong religious beliefs. A lot has changed, we've had homosexual firefighters, guys that weren't lily white like the rest of us, and about 10% are women, and at least a few pretty religious guys. So in a short few years things changed while many guys tried not to recognize we had to change too. No one wants to constantly be telling people to shut up or watch what they say. On the other hand not stopping these behaviors before they get out of hand is the job of any officer. To somewhat maintain a balance you must know the audience and ensure your crew knows as well what is tolerated and when. Is this the HR answer? No. And likely it opens up some liability, but the "right" answer is nearly impossible to achieve in this type of environment and is likely somewhat counter-productive. Busting stones and practical jokes are the signs of happy crews who have bonded well. A crew that remains silent and sits on their hands during idle time is just a group of individuals doing the same job.

Here's a link to a post by Ron Moore (University of Extrication in Firehouse Magazine) regarding when three options with regard to batteries. My link

Otherwise known as how to make a bad situation worse. You think these guys could have a poorer outlook of the VFD? Confiscate the phone and see it become their mission to show the world. Some of you need a few more years for your skin to grow a little tougher...