highwaybuff

Everyone in this topic has said they would do it their way which is absolutely fine. None of you were the IC, and we've heard from members on scene even one in charge of operations, the IC did it how he thought he should run it. That's that. You guys didn't get the answers your looking for and have now jumped on the consolidation argument hoping that will work. I believe it was posted earlier in the topic, this is for discussion about the fire incident itself not consolidation. Feel free to make another topic about that so that can fade away like all the other consolidation topics. Like I said the pettiness and the unhappy with the answers you're getting is the reason this website has died.

1. Garner was not put in a "choke hold." That terminology is only used by the lying, sensationalizing media. He was put in a "carotid neck hold", which many police officers are trained in. The neck hold does NOT "choke" the suspect or restrict the airway at all. The neck hold is an alternative to using a baton or punching a resisting suspect and it has prevented thousands of injuries to suspects and officers.
2. Garner was morbidly obese and had asthma. He may have been on drugs. He overstressed his body by resisting arrest and fighting with the police. THAT caused him to suffer a heart attack, not anything the officer did.
3. He kept repeating "I can't breath" because he was having a heart attack, not because of anything the officer did.
The media is sleazy. They will change facts, omit facts, and outright LIE to sensationalize stories like this. Look at all the omissions and lies they initially made in the Trayvon Martin case. It's almost like they are trying to incite race riots and violence against the police.

This entire incident is just another case of lying media sensationalism. The FACTS are:
The officer did NOT put Garner in a "choke hold." He put him in a NECK RESTRAINT. Most officers are trained in the use of manual neck restraints. The restraint, or "neck hold" does NOT "choke" the suspect or restrict the airway in any way. The arm is positioned such that the airway is in the "crook" of the elbow and has an inch or two of room. Any pressure is applied to the sides of the neck only.
Garner was morbidly obese. He had asthma. He was quite likely on drugs. He died of a heart attack when he over-stressed his body by resisting arrest and fighting with police. Garner was hardly "murdered", as many NY blacks are claiming. He basically killed himself by making the conscious decision to fight with police despite his medical conditions.
It's just a shame that so many gullible readers fell for the sensationalism.

They quit! Why?
1. Last time I checked this was a team sport! The success of an operation cannot and should not be determined by the actions of the few (or the individual). When a member constantly trains and studies, but is surrounded by novices who can't perform simple functions, he (or she) will be discouraged. It is hard to be proud of or confident in your organization or your team when you know exactly what needs to be done on the fireground and are prepared for every emergency, but everyone else doesn't. It is discouraging to consistently do your job exactly by the book and have every operation fail because no one else read it.
2. It is dangerous! To be a knowledgeable and aggressive firefighter is a good thing. However, when an individual is experience and talented but surrounded by novices, who can you count on to come to your aid when the s*** hits the fan. Instead, it hampers your ability because you have to be overcautious since no one else can keep up (or get scared) and no one can get you out should you get into trouble (it happens to the best of us!).
3. Frustration! It gets tiring to know exactly what needs to be done to resolve and incident but have other people consistently screw things up! You get tired of having ceilings pulled down on you; you get tired of waiting for water because your CPO can figure out how to pull the right levers; you get tired of having rooms flash when you are in them because your outside vent team doesn't know how to properly vent horizontally and introduces too much oxygen to the fire; you get tired of having no back-up man on the knob because the guy behind you couldn't find his gloves; you get tired of telling your crew to pull a 2 1/2 with a smooth bore and getting an 1 3/4 with a fog tip! After a while you just realize that they don't care and that you don't want to be a part of them anymore.
4. Ostracization! When you are part of the small minority that actually cares about training, firematics, and performace, but 46 of the other 50 members of the organization only care about parades and pancake dinners, then you become the a******! You are the guy who is always critiquing everyone; you are the guy who is always telling people how to improve; and you are the guy who takes things too seriously (after all "We are just volunteers!"). So even though all you want to do is teach others and improve the effectiveness of your department, you are always the a****** who is ruining the fork and knifers' good time and telling them that they are doing it wrong! So instead of moving up because you are the most well-trained, you are voted out and replaced with the head clown in the popularity contest that they call an election because everyone loves him!
Thats why they quit...

About getting paid...? I can't tell you how many times people (general public civilian type) didn't know our local department was volunteer.
Bullshit and creative writing maybe. But unless I missed something, I didn't see anything about the building being unoccupied. Just that the 2 named residents escaped.
Of course, if they had been been a paid "Professional" department, their x-ray vision powers would have confirmed this.

Absolutely! How about adding to this just knowing your 1st due territory as in streets, standpiped bldgs., dead end hydrants, obscured hydrants, no hydrants at all, etc.etc.. Another thing too is many places seem to assign positions on apparatus by "Seniority" and not "Ability!"

I know we have been down this road before and it just would not sit right if we don't bring it up again. When I respond to a call and I am advised by 60 Control to stage away till PD arrives I do just that. I can tell you that for every shooting, stabbing and assault call I respond to I ask if PD in en route. I also advise that we will stage away until clear to enter the scene. Do I want to help someone in distress? Yes I do. Do I want to be part of the action? Yes I do. Do I want to injure or kill one of my Brothers under my supervision and not return them home the same way they came to work. NO FRIGGIN WAY!!! Do we need to get on the radio to advise PD to stage away till our arrival? 2 Members of Public Safety are in critical condition for the simple fact that :
#1 They are not dressed in proper fire gear
#2 They are not wearing SCBA
#3 They most likely do not have elevator keys and or don't know how to control an elevator in a fire situation
#4 They are acting out of the scope of their job description
Does wearing a uniform transform us into something we are not? We tell civilians to vacate and do not return for valuables or anything else for that matter. When does the risk vs reward decision come into play? Do we really need to do another agency's job?
For everyone who gets his/her panties in a bunch over this post get over it! Hold a picture tight of your loved ones everyday and ask yourself one thing. Is this the smartest thing I am about to do?
I will say a prayer for the 2 NYPD members and I hope for a speedy and healthy recovery

I do not understand all of your post. What do you mean by "wow come on really?" , "have some respect"and ..."even if they are volunteers"? Are you infering that I am being disrespectful? If so, please elaborate why you feel this way.
To be clear to the objective and fair minded readers out there- I intend no disrespect. Is your comment "even if they are volunteers" meant to be demeaning or disrespectful of volunteer Firefighters? If so, I disavow that totally and would point out that disrespecting of any group or individual has no place on this forum.
In answer to your question "what answers are you looking for?"...I am looking for (not demanding, simply inquiring) for answers to the questions that I asked.
qtip

I am very sorry for the damage that was done to this house and the apparatus and sending my best wishes to all members of the community who have been affected by this.Some questions:
Is it true that one or two Chiefs (or ex-Chiefs) had very recently prior to this fire resigned, or were forced out?
If true, why?
If true, did this have any effect on the outcome of the firefight?
Is Golden's Bridge currently having issues with having an adequate number of qualified interior Firefighters, Company and Chief Officers available to respond in a timely manner?
I read that the cause of the fire was electrical? Is this true and if so, are there more specifics available?
Thanks!

- For real?? Those are some prettily brazen statements to make, guy. There's a lot of people who work for them on here and I'm pretty sure they'd disagree with those statements. MLSS is a business and it's run like any other business, to make money. Your comments are just ignorant.

From what little facts are available, I get from this that the VAC couldn't cover calls and contracted with a commercial company to provide 12 hour coverage during the day. According to the article, a village spokesperson said their liaison wasn't allowed to attend VAC meetings and there were issues to be resolved. The village of Chester exercised their legal right and canceled the agreement with CVAC and retained the services of MLSS. Since General Municipal Law says the municipality can provide ambulance service, it seems to me that they are within their purview.
Allegations of improprieties, golf games or gifts are purely hearsay. I can't believe the posts are even allowed to remain.
People may not like it and there may be sour grapes but as long as calls are being covered, isn't that the point?

I'm sure many more facts will be coming out as this grows legs in the media.

First of all, you are so wrong on so many aspects of this post that I don't even know where to start. How would you know the debt structure of a privately owned company? How do you know what their financial statements look like, and what they own vs. what they don't own? And if you are running an EMS service, shouldn't you try to have vehicles that are "nice and new" as opposed to old rust buckets that are unreliable? When did that become wrong and reason to criticize? Running an EMS agency with a fleet of vehicles, each equipped with the standard load of equipment, eats up a lot of cash. That means that an EMS provider usually has a fair amount of debt. How much debt is really none of your business, has nothing to do with the level of service provided, and has zero impact on response times. Your earlier post that this happened because the Chief was a female was laughable, but now you crossed the line to an uninformed rant.

Sounds like someone tried to get a job with MLSS, and was rejected...
Take your pot-stirring agenda and bring it elsewhere.

This is irresponsible and obviously you have some sort of ax to grind against MLSS. Whiskey and cigars? You state that there was no recent relationship between the town and MLSS, but don't they cover Monroe and Goshen? If I'm the Town Supervisor, the logical first call would be the service that covers the towns on either side of me. What a novel thought......the articles in the press allude to slow response times, complaints by town residents, fiscal problems, and a lack of communication with the town board. To represent that this was all a scheme by MLSS or the Town is just ridiculous and apparently baseless. Unbelieveable....

As a non resident I don't believe you have any standing to say anything. It's likly that you wouldn't even be permitted to attend a Town of Chester meeting. And pardon me for saying, but it sounds like you have a real hard *n for this MLSS and an unrelistic/unsupported/unsupportable belief in CVAC simply because they happen to be a VAC! Please! Remember Corona VAC in Queens. I say lets wait and see how this develops. Maybe the leadership really knows what they are doing and didn't banrupt the organization. Anything is possible.

Not to start a fight, I train as many vol ff's as I do career, BUT these statements by you fellows are why the career side pushes so hard for equality in training, to call yourself a firefighter, officer or chief. Look whats happening, A officer wants to change things for the better, and he is voted out. The fire service is in a lot of trouble, it is time to wake up.

I agree with you. I have been in the fire service for 25 years now and have been a level 2 firefighter for about 15 years. I am a Haz-Mat Tech Basic, National and State certified fire investigator, and I have a training file about an inch thick or more...yet a guy fresh out of FF1 gets 1st asst chief...
I take pride in the fire service and try to uphold the traditions and laws, but its hard when you are one of the few that do that still. I remember when a FF fresh out of basic had to wait to be addressed before they could speak at meetings and such, or when I as a Junior Firefighter had to stand at attention when the chief walked into the room. When senior firefighters spoke, everyone else shut their yaps and listened or got slapped upside the head. When an officer gave an order at a fire scene it was carried out regardless of your training or experience...you did it (unless it was blatently dangerous). Today...these young members get FF1 and start to get big heads and big ideas and visions of glamour and fame and they run their mouths at drills, calls and meetings, disrespect senior members and officers....I even had a guy argue with me in front of the home owner while pumping out their basement...ARGUE with me?!?!?! One of the senior guys/fire commissioners yelled at him and said "a senior fire officer has given an order and you will follow it!!!"
Its getting dangerous...in my area there are MULTIPLE chiefs under the age of 25...But if those of us that can make changes all left the department, who will be left to make the necessary changes and fight for the tax payers and people that call 911? So I guess thats why I am staying, maybe lay low for a few months, then start to poke into things that will anger people...LOL

your a clown kid,hows the parades going for ya,hahaha,he has alot of time on his hands at work to play on emt bravo when he should be working?to bad he doesnt get the emount of calls as springvally doe.s LOL.o well another basher i see.

I need to know.. Does anyone actually think the public care about this when they see it? We all see it because we are on the job and notice it. I bet if you asked anyone in a parking lot when we come across these vehicles, they would A. have no clue where the Town is in the state and B. Not really care. Now i am not talking about just this one instance. I am talking about any time it happens. The public do not care until it is a big deal (ie. a accident or something). John Q public is going to be more worried about his shopping, getting to work, (why aren't my darn kids here where i said i would pick them up) then even care about this. Plus nothing will ever happen to change it. You can make rules that you cant go out of town with it but so what. What if he needs to go see a few chiefs or need to make a pick up somewhere of some gear, is he going to check in with mommy to ask if he can leave the block? Exactly. He is the chief, he is the boss. you might not like it but he has the authority to go where he wants. If on the other hand he takes a apparatus then ya we need to know every mile you are gonna take.
Now let the man shop and stop stirring up a ruckus.

We don't save lives every day...
The "nut in a safari hat" isn't going anywhere

Part 2- Now, to some of the misinformation that has been posted on this site in regard to the YFD First Responder Program.
Misinformation response # 1. This work constitutes a large majority of our responses, or our overall work. This is not accurate. First Responder runs account for approximately 55 % of our incidents. However, each of these incidents requires the response of only one Engine Company, and the Engine Company is generally back in service in 20 minutes or less, sometimes longer of course. Obviously to anyone familiar with the Fire Service, the typical incident any Fire Department responds to (the other approximately 45% ) involves many more apparatus and personnel for significantly longer periods of time. A First Responder run with utilizing one apparatue and 4 Firefighters for 15 minutes is one incident. A 3 Alarm Fire utilizing 14 apparatus, other vehicles, and a total of 63 or so Firefighters for six or seven hours is also one incident, kapeesh?? Furthermore, the "workload" of a Fire Department is not only responses, but also the necessary training, inspections, cleaning, maintenance of vehicles, equipment, etc.
Misinformation response # 1a. Therefore, although the rumored elimination of the First Responder Program may (not my area of expertise) allow certain contractual minimum personnel levels to no longer be adhered to, it will not obviate the necessity to have adequate Fire Companies and personnel available for Firefighting and other emergencies. Sure, no FD is as busy as twenty years ago with fire duty, and certainly not as busy as 30 or 40 years ago. Nonetheless, fires do still occur, and adequate personnel and equipment is necessary for this. There is a very valid reason that similar sized city FD's all over the U.S., and in fact the industrialized world conduct First Responder Programs- the very nature of a Fire Department requires Firefighters and their equipment to be readily available for guess what, fires! However, this ready availability of individuals who are trained to handle emergencies and have apparatus to quickly respond allows city sized Fire Departments to have personnel available to supplement the primary EMS response with First Response capability. This supplementation is able to be done by Firefighters who, for the most part, will need to be there, available, anyway! The Firefighters do not get tied up with transport (generally), transfer to the medical facility, PCR's, cleaning the ambulance, etc. So, they are able to go right back into service as soon as the patient has been placed in the ambulance, or in many cases, sooner, right?
Misinformation response # 2. Oh, here's an easy one- we have 4 Firefighters per apparatus (3 Firefighters and a Company Officer), not 5. That is the manning we have had per apparatus for over 30 years. It's hard to understand how any individual who would purport to understand the situation in Yonkers could state that this is all about reducing manning from 5 to 4 per apparatus, or words to that effect.
Misinformation response # 3. The majority of these runs are nuisance runs. Well, that depends on what you consider a nusiance run. The fact is that if we know in advance the situation is not a true medical emergency, then neither the Fire Department nor the emergency ambulance service shoud respond, right? The problem, which has been studied at the highest levels for many years, is how to deduce from the initial phone call what is and what isn't a "nuisance call"..I don't know how to quantify how many of these runs that YFD (and Empress) responds to are not true medical emergencies, but admittedly the number is significant, as it is in EMS systems almost everywhere. No one wants to respond on any type of alarm where we are not needed, and as soon as someone can find out how to deduce true emergency from nuisance run every time, please let us know!
END OF PART 2 TO BE CONTINUED

Guys,
Now is not the time for any conversations about guns, disturbed people, school security or lack thereof, or any secondary topic.
It’s a time to grieve, help the survivors, the parents/ relatives of the dead and the first responders. Its time to help the children come to terms with something that could haunt them for the rest of their lives. Nothing else! Knee jerk reactions to a horrific event can wait. Let’s let the investigators do their job, and learn as much as they can. Let’s get the facts, there will be plenty of time to point fingers and express opinions later. All of our attention should be on how can we help the victims, survivors and the responders.

I think some of you are blowing this out of proportion... In these kind of operations there is a lot of waiting around for assignments, supplies etc. to begin with. I am sure that they weren't busy 100% of the time to take a few pictures. Maybe these pictures were taken after they had been relieved and de-moblized to return home? How do you know without actually being there?
Pride is a big factor here also.. remember that these guys who went down there gave up their time missed work, family time, etc. to go help their brothers in need... Remember that word brotherhood? So what if they wanted to take a few pictures to remember it?
Public Relations is a big thing these days as I am sure all of you know... We all have websites and local newspapers, in this modern age PR is a big issue that departments should be looking at. Even volunteer departments have to think about it. When that big vote for the new engine comes up to replace your 25 Y/o rig where are the citizens going to look for information about you? The first place they will check is your website. Why not have as many positive things on there as possible, why not show them that you go above and beyond to provide a valuable service to them and are capable? PR can go along way in todays world.....
Just some quick thoughts that I had on the matter.

I have not been there however, In todays world where anyone who has a phone can take a picture of course you will see photos. Are the jobs being handled? appears to be, is there also some down time from what I hear - yes - I don't see an issue with people taking photos as long as they are not breaking department guidelines or the department where they are stationed request not too.
I believe it's good to take photos to show the destruction people are seeing, it gives an urgency of exactly how bad it is. So as you may want to sit with your feet up (example only not picking on you) others may want to document their experience. This also is documentation that you can bring back to your department for validation of you and your expensive piece of equipment to be down there.
Just my honest opinion.

Yonkers Fire has a ladder company (Spare L-78) with a full crew (Officer and 3 FF) plus a Battalion Chief and Aide in Nassau, I believe in Baldwin. They are returning tomorrow at 0800 after a 72 hour deployment.
YFD Mobile Command has been in Citi Field, with 2 of our SOC members, for the last several days. It is expected to be there for a long time. It is being heavily utilized by various OEM / FEMA, etc.
We also have a Haz-Mat Task Force operating in Suffolk County out of the Islip Airport alongside a career FD Haz-Mat team there.It consists of 2 YFD Battalion Chiefs, and approximately 4 YFD Company Officers, and 15 or so YFD Firefighters, as well as 1 Officer and 3 Firefighters from Hartsdale Fire, and 1 Officer and 6 Firefighters from Greenville Fire. All or most of these members have been trained to the Haz-Mat Tech level, and some to Haz-Mat Specialist level.They finish their 72 hours tomorrow evening I believe. They have been doing a very significant amount of work, the details of which I do not have. Suffice to say that local opinion has been very positive and they have been requested to extend their deployment for at least 72 more hours.
However, in light of the coming Nor-Easter, our exhausted personnel as a result of the Hurricane Sandy mitigation- preparation- response, and recovery efforts in Yonkers, and the recovery work on Long Island, and our very undermanned department (40+ members under authorized strength due to a delayed class hiring), we have declined the request to extend the Haz Mat Task Force deployment. We will see what effect the coming storm has, and if still requested, and able, we will redeploy another Haz Mat Group.
This is a horrible situation for so many, but it is nice to see how readily most First Responders as well civilians give of their time, effort, and money to attempt to ease the suffering and return us all to some sense of normalcy.
Once again, I could not be more proud of my YFD brothers, many of whom suffered damage to their own homes, as well as extended loss of electricity, yet continued to rise to the challenge and performed admirably during the many events of this last week.