SteveC7010

That is going to depend on agency rules and requirements. You will have to talk to someone who can speak for the specific agency which you are interested in joining. FWIW, most (if not all) VACs have an intake path for non-certified people, but what you will actually be trained for and allowed to do without holding an EMT card will again depend on agency rules and procedures.

Seth, sadly I think that there are still a lot of departments out there who believe that the rules just do not apply to them. It should not have taken the death of a firefighter and subsequent OSHA investigations to bring about these changes. For example, I just finished advising a fire department about matters related to 501©3 tax exempt status and it was a real horror show. There are influential members in the department that still do not believe that they will have to file full 990 tax returns even though their annual income is clearly large enough for returns to be required by law. (Federal tax law requires complete tax returns for income $50,000 or more per year. Under $50K, you file a 990-N which contains no financial information. It's a simple affirmation that your agency's income was less than $50,000.) They don't think their annual reports are public information and must be disclosed promptly without the need for FOIL requests. They truly believe that they will receive a very large gift from a donor without being 501©3. Luckily, one or two much cooler heads have prevailed and they are on the right track.

Does anyone have any current info on which standard NYS DOH might be favoring for adoption? Is anyone paying any attention at all to either of these specs if you're looking at a new unit in the next year or two? We're looking at purchasing a new ambulance on a 2016 chassis to replace our 2006 type III. The search team just got started and we have yet to even begin to compile a list of what we want in the patient care area. But we're concerned about the effect of a new standard on what we'll be buying. I'll be seeing our BEMS reps on the 19th but thought I'd toss this out for discussion now so that I've got a broader view of what the EMS community is thinking on the subject.

That's the message I have been getting from BEMS, too. It's probably why we're not seeing any discussion on this thread.

I'm no where near Putnam County, and had no part in providing that information to Radio Reference. Whatever is there was provided by scanner folks down in that area. You'll have to verify this with someone down there. All I have done is pointed you at a very useful resource.

Here is a link to the RadioReference.com page on Putnam County. The info there is updated by scanner enthusiasts on a regular basis. There is also quite a bit of info on individual department frequencies, and there is a link to the FCC's complete database of radio licenses in the county. http://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?ctid=1864

It does not matter. Age was not part of the job description so it has to be disregarded by law. And, realistically, these days there are an awful lot of very healthy and active people in their sixties who are fully able to perform as well as they did in their forties. I am one of them. Conversely, there are a bunch of mid-forties to mid-fifties paid men in terrible shape in departments all over the country. I'd also want to see the job description before arguing this point any further. A lot of departments like this hire "paid drivers" or similar titles rather than full firefighters even though they're required to be certified. Since it is possible that the job description may not have required full firefighter physical ability, until we know for sure, debating that point isn't accurate or productive. Interesting point for everyone, the plaintiff was among the top five on the list, but they hired none of them, picking someone lower down on the list. NYS Civil Service law generally requires hiring from the top three on the list. Sounds to me like they shot themselves in the foot several times over.

Nearly 30 years ago, I built a log home. I specified full 3/4" plywood for the main subfloor with 2x12's for floor joists. Being a log home, we used double thickness 2x12's for the rim to support the extra weight of the exterior log walls. I also spec'd the joists to be 18" on center instead of the usual 24" that most builders will do unless told otherwise. That also contributed to more load bearing capacity on the rim. I did consider the OSB "I" beams as they were just gaining acceptance in the manufactured housing industry at the time but rejected them as being too susceptible to water damage and possibly fire damage. Guess I made a good call.

From the picture, it looks like the 2x stock portion of the wood I beams didn't even char very much. I can't tell from the black and white pic if the OSB portion is burned away or disintegrated from being soaked in water. Either way, the hazard is obvious and severe.

It look like a Larsen Golight. If it is, most of their models come with a removable cover plate. It would make sense that the first pic might still have the plate in place, even though it might be later removed and tossed aside. It's not really a hood, just a plate that snaps in place over the lens.

I think you are correct on this. I have never heard of such a law here in NYS, but, as you say, many departments have self imposed maximum memberships. I belonged to a unit like that early in my career. I also did some googling on the topic and came up emptyhanded. Presuming that there is no state law on the subject, that begs the question of how the newspaper article ended up reporting that the Commissioner told the Town Board that there is a state limit. Did the reporter misunderstand or ignore a more accurate statement? Or did the Commissioner give inaccurate info to the Town Board? Given one glaring inaccuracy, I wonder how much of the rest of the article is reliable?

A lot of inconsistencies in the article, and then the comments open up a bunch of info that was not presented in the article. Two fire houses within a quarter mile of each other? Hmmmm!

There have been and continue to be deployments from the Capital Region. One department in our county sent their Argo and 3 guys. Another sent a Polaris off-road vehicle and men as well.

Seth, opinion only: AHA just teaches high quality compressions and rate along with ventilation and defibrillation (acknowledging the 2015 AHA changes are about to hit the street) even for rescuer level. REMSCO protocols just specify the need for CPR and, much the same as AHA, just rate and quality, defib cycles, etc. Neither has anything to say about how one gets the patient into a position where "ideal" CPR, defib, and other measures plus transport can be performed. In my view, it's the kind of thing that could be adopted and practiced at the local agency level. Nothing in the procedure appears to be contrary to AHA or REMSCO protocol. It actually calls for and requires continuous, high quality, uninterrupted CPR. I showed the video at our monthly ambulance squad meeting this evening. There was a lot of enthusiasm and interest from all the folks present, including our local fire chief.

The situation is even more blurry now looking at other items that emergency services purchase, especially radios. Radios assembled here in the US are probably 95% composed of overseas components. Ownership is, well, who knows anymore? Motorola Solutions is still based in the Illinois, but production is world wide. Other brands may be based in Japan, but have huge distribution, repair, and dealer networks in the US. Most, if not all, new and innovative products, while developed in the US by Americans, are all manufactured in another country. Given the globalization that is so wide spread these days, I suspect it's not possible to simply "Buy American" anymore. I know there may be some exceptions, but having purchase rules in place that specify US made only is overall, an antiquated concept that can no longer be blindly applied across the board. Wasn't it a kick when, by its own rules, NASCAR had to add Toyota to its list of manufacturers that could compete in their programs? I think that woke up a lot of people to the cold, hard facts of globalization.

I never had the pleasure (?) of working in a fire vehicle with a Q on the roof, but I did work EMS from 1972 until 1995. I never rode in an ambulance or fly car that did not have the siren loud speakers on the roof; many of them in Federal Twinsonics. And if I was the driver, I always had my window rolled down at least 1/3 of the way. As a result, I have severe hearing deficiencies in both ears in the higher frequency ranges with a $5,000 pair of digital hearing aids to prove it. When I got back into EMS four years ago, it had all changed. Ambulance loudspeakers are all in the grille or front bumper area. Police cars and EMS fly cars all have loudspeakers in the same area, but many of them behind the front grill. It's SOP in my squad to run hot with the windows up. Although not mandatory, we all follow the SOP. As a result, we're not seeing any new hearing problems with our members. Admittedly, it's a small squad with a relatively low call volume and we don't use the siren much on open roads with little traffic. But given the power of today's mechanical and electronic siren systems, I think we'd see hearing complaints real quickly if we went back to the conditions of the past. A number of my squad members also work full-time commercial ambulance, and they report the same conditions and results. Let's face it, a lot of us older folks did some really dumb stuff when it comes to hearing issues in our younger years. Sessions at the range with no muffs, standing next to the Marshall stack at rock concerts or even in bars, running roof mounted sirens for long periods of time with the windows open. I am a Vietnam vet, and I can tell you that the military did not provide hearing protection for range work in that era.

I am wondering why none of you have started to talk about this here? Have you not seen it yet? https://www.health.ny.gov/diseases/communicable/ebola/docs/commissioner_order.pdf It contains the actual order from DOH plus specifics required of hospitals, ems responders, and ambulance services. If you have not read it yet, I urge you to download the entire pdf and read it in its entirety. IMHO, this is going to have a major impact on every ems responder, but in particular the volunteer services may be even harder hit than others. I suspect many volunteers are going to be unwilling to comply with the initial and the ongoing requirements. This may to even more true of those volunteers who are not at least CFR's or EMT's. Most material referenced in the order can be found on this page: https://www.health.ny.gov/diseases/communicable/ebola/#ems_providers

If only it were that simple. First, there are only two agencies with CON's for our area. Us and a small commercial outfit that is in deep financial trouble. Yes, we could call them, but there's no guarantee that they will even be available and if they are, that they will accept the run. It's even worse to the north. Distance to an EVD hospital is greater, and they are backed up by the same commercial outfit that we are. And even if BEMS granted some kind of waiver on the CON system for the EVD crisis, we still have limited options. If us little guys are dealing with a PUI or worse, we can be pretty sure that the larger squads and the commercials are dealing with even more. Their availability is doubtful at best. If they'd even accept the job would be even more doubtful. There are other commercials in the region but they do not have CON's for our area. I suppose we could meet them at the border, but by then we've already contaminated the ambulance so we might as well go all the way. In all fairness, all of us here need to be conscious of the great differences of these things around our state. What works well in the more populous areas won't fly in the rural and wilderness areas. What we do up here on a routine basis would be laughed at or scorned in other areas.

The flow chart I mentioned in my previous post should help responders to decide when to suit up. I do know that even the smallest counties that do not do EMD are now being provided with the CDC's guidelines for PSAP's. The expectation is that most will go along with the protocols, but that's still to be seen. However, I don't think any dispatcher wants to be the one who forgot to ask the Ebola questions when it matters most. As for automatic diversion to an approved Ebola treatment hospital, let's remember that this is a great big state. 6 out of the 8 approved hospitals are downstate, NYC, and LI. Only two are upstate; one in Syracuse and one in Rochester. So for you folks downstate, automatic diversion is a pretty good option and a reasonable choice. However, upstate has a much different picture. I'm in the southern Adirondacks and about 2 1/2 hours from Syracuse. Anyone north of me, all the way up to the Canadian border, has a much, much longer trip, easily 5 or 6 hours. Diverting to an approved hospital is not an option, especially for the smaller squads with only one or two ambulances and relatively few responders. There's a lot of conversation at the moment about how to deal with this troubling situation.

More info is beginning to flow out of NYS DOH BEMS. My Chief passed an email to me that contained a number of documents. Several were repeats of stuff we've already seen but there were three new ones. First, a cover letter from BEMS to all agencies: NYSDOH BEMS Cover Letter FINAL 10-22-14.pdf Nothing spectacular in it, but it's short and sweet and much easier to digest for the average squad member. Second, an Ebola training guideline. Nothing new in it, and the info is mostly cut and paste from other stuff we've already seen like the CDC PPE guidelines. But it is much more concise with only a few hyperlinks. I think it is much better as a handout to the average provider. NYSDOH BEMS Ebola Training Guideline FINAL 10-22-14.pdf Last, and probably most useful is a single page document called the Pre-Hospital Screening Guide for Ebola Virus Disease. It's a flow chart of questioning that should make it fairly easy for an EMT or higher to determine if they're dealing with a problem or not. I'm printing up several of them, and we'll have one on the bulletin board and one on the PRC clipboard in the ambulance, and maybe one on the wall somewhere in the ambulance as well. We'll make sure all of our responders have a copy, probably digital. NYSDOH BEMS Pre-Hospital Screening Guide for EVD FINAL 10-22-14.pdf For everyone in NYS, you should be seeing some or all of these documents in the days ahead. My Chief also advised me that there was a conference call scheduled for 4 PM today (Thursday the 21st) that would involve BEMS, our Region, and several more folks. We speculated that the results of that conference would likely have some impact on our training and implementation program. But we're in a wait and see mode on that. One other concern that popped up in conversation today was the availability of PPE in general. Since there are so many different types and products out there, each agency, especially us smaller ones, will likely settle on one PPE system. Training and proficiency maintenance on multiple types of PPE systems is just not going to be feasible for many of us. But, with the anticipated probable shortage of all this stuff in the weeks and months ahead, we may be in a Catch-22 situation.

I don't think there is mention of any specific providers in other states in the Commissioner's Order & Requirements. Let's keep this to the topic, OK?

I see problems on all fronts. First and foremost, seasonal influenza and Ebola have the same symptoms, especially in early stage. That implies that we could easily end up putting on the suit for a lot of calls in the months ahead. Problem #1 brings us rapidly to #2. Given the generally wide proliferation of seasonal influenza, we may not be able to use dedicated ambulances. As much as your suggestion has much merit, the numbers might not allow it. #3 is tied to #1 and #2: Suiting up this often could easily place a financial burden on agencies big and small. One of the commercials in our area is not in the best of financial shape right now. The added cost could be the straw that breaks.... Your comment on the questioning prior to patient contact is dead on. I worked my career in a high volume, top-notch 911 operation. They were 100% EMD trained and experienced. Every request for medical assistance went through EMD. Additional focused questioning in that environment is not really much of an issue to implement, and just as easy to devise and implement effective ways to pass positive indicators on to the EMS responders without raising public alarm. However, that is not the case everywhere. Many counties have bare bones, small 911 operations even though they are central dispatch. No EMD, not enough personnel on duty to do EMD if they had it, and dispatch systems that don't utilize digital paging, MDT's, and similar alerting systems that would keep this information off the regular voice radios. I see a huge problem in the volunteer EMS community with every aspect of this.

NYS EMT-I is being dropped and replaced by the national standard AEMT. Here are the highlights of the change from the transition documents that were sent out last year: 900 currently in NYSWill go to National Intermediate levelNeedle Chest Decompression removedNG & OG probably removed?Capnography & End Tidal CO2 will remainVenous blood sampling will remainMAST will remain (May see  emphasis in use for hypoperfusion)IO for pediatrics and adultsMedications– Nitrous Oxide for pain management– IM Epinephrine & Glucagon– IN Narcan & Epinephrine for cardiac arrest– IV Narcan & D50W– SC Epinephrine– SL Nitroglycerine– IV Epinephrine for cardiac arrest

Let me ask a couple of questions to fill in the conversation: First, does anyone here know if there is anything in NYS law that would prevent a fire department from creating a separate class of membership that would not be required to take FF1 and, of course, not required to respond to fire calls? It would be valuable to know if this is strictly an in-house rule, or there is some legal requirement. And, to take 50-65's question one step further, if they did not try to work around their rule, why not? If this was just an in-house rule, the answer to this is very important.