fdce54

Back to the subject of lights and sirens, the two Con Ed guys I was speaking to today said the "Incident Response Unit" or "Emergency Command Unit" or whatever they may say are most likely members of the Emergency Response Group.  They have 'em in gas, electric, steam and substations.  None of them are authorized to have red lights or sirens but, just like we have some people with "extra" bells and whistles, some of these guys may have additional lights.  These are the guys that will hold the fort until more crews can arrive and they're trained in ICS and are the SME from their part of the company.  The substations guys are trained in firefighting at TEEX and deal with the oil filled transformer fires and other big events like that.  They can all set up one of the Con Ed ICS command boards and be your point of contact until more help arrives. 

 
Great insight.  I was talking to two Con Ed guys today and they echo your sentiment that the last thing the FD should be doing is turning valves in the street.  They may inadvertently turn off a transmission main instead of the distribution main supplying the house in question and that could impact THOUSANDS depending on where it is.  They also said that they've been finding valve boxes completely paved over, not just hidden by errant water valve boxes. 

Just like we shouldn't climb poles to disconnect power lines, we shouldn't be messing with gas infrastructure.  The results could be costly both in time and money and public safety.
 
In my 35 years I never had a complaint with the response time of Con Ed responders, especially gas crews.
 

To add to my above post, as per teaching firefighters to shut off gas in the street. Did you just walk up to the firehouse one day and say I want to be a firefighter, then was invited in, given gear, told you were the OV and then told to get on the rig, we've got a run? No, of course not. Whether paid or volley, their is mandated training that you must pass. Then their is requalifying, maintaining of the equipment etc, etc. Not to mention the experience factor. Can't teach that. Well the same thing exists in Con Ed. Contrary to popular opinion, we're not just pilot light lighters or as a Mt Vernon PD Sgt once said to me, "you're nothing but a bunch of ditch diggers."  There is required training, requalifying and certain equipment to use and maintain. Every Con Ed gas truck has a CGI on it that costs $3500.00. It has to be calibrated monthly and every time the batteries are replaced. If you want to play Con Ed, you have to play by the rules and have to have the same equipment that Con Ed has. Who is going to pay for those CGIs you'll have to have. Who is going to calibrate them when required. The calibrating device is rather expensive too. Who is going to arrange and pay for the training and requalifying? Con Ed gas comes under Federal DOT guidelines. As I stated in my above post about the FD that shut off a bunch of gas main valves trying to secure a leak and in error (and it was the FDNY, not a volley company). If a Con Ed mechanic operates a valve in error whether it be a main valve or curb valve as per DOT guidelines, he is immediately taken off duty, taken for drug and alcohol testing and remains off duty until completion of the investigation even if he was directed  or ordered to do so.  It's a serious business, not a game.

 
This is a major factor why firefighters are generally not trained to properly deal with gas and electrical emergencies.  It takes a great deal of training, qualification, re-qualification, and maintaining the equipment to the mandatory standards; It's much like the standards for bail-out devices or EMS certifications.  It's a great deal of work, especially for volleys who barely have time these days to have them time put out fires or respond to car accidents.  Then again, if firefighters really want to be able to do the job,, they will take the training and maintain their currency.
 
And, as far as the skills go, you're right.  You can't teach it.  It takes a keen eye and a smart mind to identify curb valves versus main valves and understanding where they are located, never mind knowing the construction of the gas line system and what kind of pressures it's producing.  Only over time and responding to these incidents will you eventually become comfortable with how the system works and and how to mitigate a situation properly (I work in aviation, which is HEAVILY regulated.  I know the pain!).

First of all, I spent 42 years working for Con Ed in the Bronx and Westchester with the last 14 in Westchester as a supervisor in gas emergency until I retired last year. I responded to countless gas leak complaints both as a mechanic and as a supervisor. I am also a volunteer firefighter in Orange county. For me personally, the last thing I wanted to see is the fire dept on location when I arrived. They don't have the required equipment or training mandated by the PSC or the experience to investigate a leak. If it's on fire, I don't want anybody else than the fire dept but unfortunately the majority of firefighters lose interest quickly if it's not on fire. Then the paid depts. want to put the companies back in service asap and the volley companies in the day time Mon-Fri had what we call the paid firefighters responding, ie, the DPW members and their boss wants them back to work. So I would just prefer Con Ed to respond and if I need the services of the fire dept, I would request the FD.  At a damage that I responded to one time with the fire dept on location and blowing gas, the chief in charge told me they had shut off numerous valves to no good. I asked him how many valves and where they were. I got the deer in the headlights look back. I then went over and turned off the curb valve on the damaged service and secured the leak. They had turned off gas to numerouse homes and business, over 50. Restoration of gas is not simply turning the valves back on and is time consuming and costly.  A little info on responding. The New York State PSC mandates that all gas leak complaints must be responded to within 60 minutes. Con Ed has told the PSC that they will respond to 75% of the leak complaints within 30 minutes. That works well in the Bronx, Manhattan and Queens but can be difficult in Westchester. Con Ed will request the fire dept to respond if certain criterias of the leak complaint require it but the understanding is that it is to make safe by evacuating people in the area of the leak not to mitigate it.  The finest example of that was the damage in Scarsdale about 10 years ago where the contractor pulled the 1" high pressure service out of the regulator in the bsmt with ensuing high pressure gas filling up the house. The contractor called 911 and reported it but he did not evacuate his workers from the bldg. When the Scarsdale FD arrived, they evacuated the house where the damage was and the surrounding houses also. They opened windows in the house where the damage was to ventilate but being a cold day, the temperature dropped in the house and the thermostat called for heat and the house exploded but there were no injuries. Job well done. What would the outcome have been if they decided to look for valves? The curb valve was buried under construction material, main valves were further away in the intersections at the end of the street and can be and usually are difficult to open. In many older areas main valves can be much further apart than just in the immediate intersections and many are paved over. I was working the night of a gas main fire in Mamaroneck the night of a severe thunderstorm that took down a primary electric cable which grounded out on the ground burning a hole through a 4" steel medium pressure main that was four feet deep in the ground and igniting the gas. Such is the power of primary electric. Looking at our maps, I saw the location of the main valve but could not locate it, only a water valve. I had my construction crew start excavating in the area of where the main was (it was a one way feed down a dead end street) and had my two leak responders start searching for surrounding main valves to secure this leak and fire, a total of five more valves. While we were trying to locate theses valves, the water company responded to mark out the water main and services. After about 45 minutes, he came over to me and stated they did not have a water main any where near where the water valve box was. I had my crew open up that box to see if it was our gas main valve but it was filled with asphalt. I had my crew excavate that box down to the valve and it was our gas valve which we then shut to secure the leak and extinguish the fire. That took 2 1/2-3 hours to do from our time of arrival. Definitely unacceptable in my book and I spent the next hour apoligizing to the chief who was a genuine nice guy. It turned out the road had been repaved about 2 years prior. The contractor had damaged the gas valve box, did not report it and replaced it with a water valve box he had. You never know what you will find. Now back to the Scarsdale incident.  If I recall correctly, the FD said from the time of their arrival to the explosion was about 5 minutes. The first Con Ed responder, a supervisor, was able to locate and t/off the curb valve stemming the gas that was feeding the fire. As I stated earlier, the PCS does not want code 3 response and I personally did not want code 3 response having driven fire dept rigs code 3 and knowing the dangers. So my opinion and the way I understood the policy, the fire dept is to evacuate and make safe. 

To add to my above post, as per teaching firefighters to shut off gas in the street. Did you just walk up to the firehouse one day and say I want to be a firefighter, then was invited in, given gear, told you were the OV and then told to get on the rig, we've got a run? No, of course not. Whether paid or volley, their is mandated training that you must pass. Then their is requalifying, maintaining of the equipment etc, etc. Not to mention the experience factor. Can't teach that. Well the same thing exists in Con Ed. Contrary to popular opinion, we're not just pilot light lighters or as a Mt Vernon PD Sgt once said to me, "you're nothing but a bunch of ditch diggers."  There is required training, requalifying and certain equipment to use and maintain. Every Con Ed gas truck has a CGI on it that costs $3500.00. It has to be calibrated monthly and every time the batteries are replaced. If you want to play Con Ed, you have to play by the rules and have to have the same equipment that Con Ed has. Who is going to pay for those CGIs you'll have to have. Who is going to calibrate them when required. The calibrating device is rather expensive too. Who is going to arrange and pay for the training and requalifying? Con Ed gas comes under Federal DOT guidelines. As I stated in my above post about the FD that shut off a bunch of gas main valves trying to secure a leak and in error (and it was the FDNY, not a volley company). If a Con Ed mechanic operates a valve in error whether it be a main valve or curb valve as per DOT guidelines, he is immediately taken off duty, taken for drug and alcohol testing and remains off duty until completion of the investigation even if he was directed  or ordered to do so.  It's a serious business, not a game.

@fdce54 thanks for that excellent insight and sharing it with us! You've definitely enlightened me.  

First of all, I spent 42 years working for Con Ed in the Bronx and Westchester with the last 14 in Westchester as a supervisor in gas emergency until I retired last year. I responded to countless gas leak complaints both as a mechanic and as a supervisor. I am also a volunteer firefighter in Orange county. For me personally, the last thing I wanted to see is the fire dept on location when I arrived. They don't have the required equipment or training mandated by the PSC or the experience to investigate a leak. If it's on fire, I don't want anybody else than the fire dept but unfortunately the majority of firefighters lose interest quickly if it's not on fire. Then the paid depts. want to put the companies back in service asap and the volley companies in the day time Mon-Fri had what we call the paid firefighters responding, ie, the DPW members and their boss wants them back to work. So I would just prefer Con Ed to respond and if I need the services of the fire dept, I would request the FD.  At a damage that I responded to one time with the fire dept on location and blowing gas, the chief in charge told me they had shut off numerous valves to no good. I asked him how many valves and where they were. I got the deer in the headlights look back. I then went over and turned off the curb valve on the damaged service and secured the leak. They had turned off gas to numerouse homes and business, over 50. Restoration of gas is not simply turning the valves back on and is time consuming and costly.  A little info on responding. The New York State PSC mandates that all gas leak complaints must be responded to within 60 minutes. Con Ed has told the PSC that they will respond to 75% of the leak complaints within 30 minutes. That works well in the Bronx, Manhattan and Queens but can be difficult in Westchester. Con Ed will request the fire dept to respond if certain criterias of the leak complaint require it but the understanding is that it is to make safe by evacuating people in the area of the leak not to mitigate it.  The finest example of that was the damage in Scarsdale about 10 years ago where the contractor pulled the 1" high pressure service out of the regulator in the bsmt with ensuing high pressure gas filling up the house. The contractor called 911 and reported it but he did not evacuate his workers from the bldg. When the Scarsdale FD arrived, they evacuated the house where the damage was and the surrounding houses also. They opened windows in the house where the damage was to ventilate but being a cold day, the temperature dropped in the house and the thermostat called for heat and the house exploded but there were no injuries. Job well done. What would the outcome have been if they decided to look for valves? The curb valve was buried under construction material, main valves were further away in the intersections at the end of the street and can be and usually are difficult to open. In many older areas main valves can be much further apart than just in the immediate intersections and many are paved over. I was working the night of a gas main fire in Mamaroneck the night of a severe thunderstorm that took down a primary electric cable which grounded out on the ground burning a hole through a 4" steel medium pressure main that was four feet deep in the ground and igniting the gas. Such is the power of primary electric. Looking at our maps, I saw the location of the main valve but could not locate it, only a water valve. I had my construction crew start excavating in the area of where the main was (it was a one way feed down a dead end street) and had my two leak responders start searching for surrounding main valves to secure this leak and fire, a total of five more valves. While we were trying to locate theses valves, the water company responded to mark out the water main and services. After about 45 minutes, he came over to me and stated they did not have a water main any where near where the water valve box was. I had my crew open up that box to see if it was our gas main valve but it was filled with asphalt. I had my crew excavate that box down to the valve and it was our gas valve which we then shut to secure the leak and extinguish the fire. That took 2 1/2-3 hours to do from our time of arrival. Definitely unacceptable in my book and I spent the next hour apoligizing to the chief who was a genuine nice guy. It turned out the road had been repaved about 2 years prior. The contractor had damaged the gas valve box, did not report it and replaced it with a water valve box he had. You never know what you will find. Now back to the Scarsdale incident.  If I recall correctly, the FD said from the time of their arrival to the explosion was about 5 minutes. The first Con Ed responder, a supervisor, was able to locate and t/off the curb valve stemming the gas that was feeding the fire. As I stated earlier, the PCS does not want code 3 response and I personally did not want code 3 response having driven fire dept rigs code 3 and knowing the dangers. So my opinion and the way I understood the policy, the fire dept is to evacuate and make safe. 

To add to my above post, as per teaching firefighters to shut off gas in the street. Did you just walk up to the firehouse one day and say I want to be a firefighter, then was invited in, given gear, told you were the OV and then told to get on the rig, we've got a run? No, of course not. Whether paid or volley, their is mandated training that you must pass. Then their is requalifying, maintaining of the equipment etc, etc. Not to mention the experience factor. Can't teach that. Well the same thing exists in Con Ed. Contrary to popular opinion, we're not just pilot light lighters or as a Mt Vernon PD Sgt once said to me, "you're nothing but a bunch of ditch diggers."  There is required training, requalifying and certain equipment to use and maintain. Every Con Ed gas truck has a CGI on it that costs $3500.00. It has to be calibrated monthly and every time the batteries are replaced. If you want to play Con Ed, you have to play by the rules and have to have the same equipment that Con Ed has. Who is going to pay for those CGIs you'll have to have. Who is going to calibrate them when required. The calibrating device is rather expensive too. Who is going to arrange and pay for the training and requalifying? Con Ed gas comes under Federal DOT guidelines. As I stated in my above post about the FD that shut off a bunch of gas main valves trying to secure a leak and in error (and it was the FDNY, not a volley company). If a Con Ed mechanic operates a valve in error whether it be a main valve or curb valve as per DOT guidelines, he is immediately taken off duty, taken for drug and alcohol testing and remains off duty until completion of the investigation even if he was directed  or ordered to do so.  It's a serious business, not a game.

First of all, I spent 42 years working for Con Ed in the Bronx and Westchester with the last 14 in Westchester as a supervisor in gas emergency until I retired last year. I responded to countless gas leak complaints both as a mechanic and as a supervisor. I am also a volunteer firefighter in Orange county. For me personally, the last thing I wanted to see is the fire dept on location when I arrived. They don't have the required equipment or training mandated by the PSC or the experience to investigate a leak. If it's on fire, I don't want anybody else than the fire dept but unfortunately the majority of firefighters lose interest quickly if it's not on fire. Then the paid depts. want to put the companies back in service asap and the volley companies in the day time Mon-Fri had what we call the paid firefighters responding, ie, the DPW members and their boss wants them back to work. So I would just prefer Con Ed to respond and if I need the services of the fire dept, I would request the FD.  At a damage that I responded to one time with the fire dept on location and blowing gas, the chief in charge told me they had shut off numerous valves to no good. I asked him how many valves and where they were. I got the deer in the headlights look back. I then went over and turned off the curb valve on the damaged service and secured the leak. They had turned off gas to numerouse homes and business, over 50. Restoration of gas is not simply turning the valves back on and is time consuming and costly.  A little info on responding. The New York State PSC mandates that all gas leak complaints must be responded to within 60 minutes. Con Ed has told the PSC that they will respond to 75% of the leak complaints within 30 minutes. That works well in the Bronx, Manhattan and Queens but can be difficult in Westchester. Con Ed will request the fire dept to respond if certain criterias of the leak complaint require it but the understanding is that it is to make safe by evacuating people in the area of the leak not to mitigate it.  The finest example of that was the damage in Scarsdale about 10 years ago where the contractor pulled the 1" high pressure service out of the regulator in the bsmt with ensuing high pressure gas filling up the house. The contractor called 911 and reported it but he did not evacuate his workers from the bldg. When the Scarsdale FD arrived, they evacuated the house where the damage was and the surrounding houses also. They opened windows in the house where the damage was to ventilate but being a cold day, the temperature dropped in the house and the thermostat called for heat and the house exploded but there were no injuries. Job well done. What would the outcome have been if they decided to look for valves? The curb valve was buried under construction material, main valves were further away in the intersections at the end of the street and can be and usually are difficult to open. In many older areas main valves can be much further apart than just in the immediate intersections and many are paved over. I was working the night of a gas main fire in Mamaroneck the night of a severe thunderstorm that took down a primary electric cable which grounded out on the ground burning a hole through a 4" steel medium pressure main that was four feet deep in the ground and igniting the gas. Such is the power of primary electric. Looking at our maps, I saw the location of the main valve but could not locate it, only a water valve. I had my construction crew start excavating in the area of where the main was (it was a one way feed down a dead end street) and had my two leak responders start searching for surrounding main valves to secure this leak and fire, a total of five more valves. While we were trying to locate theses valves, the water company responded to mark out the water main and services. After about 45 minutes, he came over to me and stated they did not have a water main any where near where the water valve box was. I had my crew open up that box to see if it was our gas main valve but it was filled with asphalt. I had my crew excavate that box down to the valve and it was our gas valve which we then shut to secure the leak and extinguish the fire. That took 2 1/2-3 hours to do from our time of arrival. Definitely unacceptable in my book and I spent the next hour apoligizing to the chief who was a genuine nice guy. It turned out the road had been repaved about 2 years prior. The contractor had damaged the gas valve box, did not report it and replaced it with a water valve box he had. You never know what you will find. Now back to the Scarsdale incident.  If I recall correctly, the FD said from the time of their arrival to the explosion was about 5 minutes. The first Con Ed responder, a supervisor, was able to locate and t/off the curb valve stemming the gas that was feeding the fire. As I stated earlier, the PCS does not want code 3 response and I personally did not want code 3 response having driven fire dept rigs code 3 and knowing the dangers. So my opinion and the way I understood the policy, the fire dept is to evacuate and make safe. 

First of all, I spent 42 years working for Con Ed in the Bronx and Westchester with the last 14 in Westchester as a supervisor in gas emergency until I retired last year. I responded to countless gas leak complaints both as a mechanic and as a supervisor. I am also a volunteer firefighter in Orange county. For me personally, the last thing I wanted to see is the fire dept on location when I arrived. They don't have the required equipment or training mandated by the PSC or the experience to investigate a leak. If it's on fire, I don't want anybody else than the fire dept but unfortunately the majority of firefighters lose interest quickly if it's not on fire. Then the paid depts. want to put the companies back in service asap and the volley companies in the day time Mon-Fri had what we call the paid firefighters responding, ie, the DPW members and their boss wants them back to work. So I would just prefer Con Ed to respond and if I need the services of the fire dept, I would request the FD.  At a damage that I responded to one time with the fire dept on location and blowing gas, the chief in charge told me they had shut off numerous valves to no good. I asked him how many valves and where they were. I got the deer in the headlights look back. I then went over and turned off the curb valve on the damaged service and secured the leak. They had turned off gas to numerouse homes and business, over 50. Restoration of gas is not simply turning the valves back on and is time consuming and costly.  A little info on responding. The New York State PSC mandates that all gas leak complaints must be responded to within 60 minutes. Con Ed has told the PSC that they will respond to 75% of the leak complaints within 30 minutes. That works well in the Bronx, Manhattan and Queens but can be difficult in Westchester. Con Ed will request the fire dept to respond if certain criterias of the leak complaint require it but the understanding is that it is to make safe by evacuating people in the area of the leak not to mitigate it.  The finest example of that was the damage in Scarsdale about 10 years ago where the contractor pulled the 1" high pressure service out of the regulator in the bsmt with ensuing high pressure gas filling up the house. The contractor called 911 and reported it but he did not evacuate his workers from the bldg. When the Scarsdale FD arrived, they evacuated the house where the damage was and the surrounding houses also. They opened windows in the house where the damage was to ventilate but being a cold day, the temperature dropped in the house and the thermostat called for heat and the house exploded but there were no injuries. Job well done. What would the outcome have been if they decided to look for valves? The curb valve was buried under construction material, main valves were further away in the intersections at the end of the street and can be and usually are difficult to open. In many older areas main valves can be much further apart than just in the immediate intersections and many are paved over. I was working the night of a gas main fire in Mamaroneck the night of a severe thunderstorm that took down a primary electric cable which grounded out on the ground burning a hole through a 4" steel medium pressure main that was four feet deep in the ground and igniting the gas. Such is the power of primary electric. Looking at our maps, I saw the location of the main valve but could not locate it, only a water valve. I had my construction crew start excavating in the area of where the main was (it was a one way feed down a dead end street) and had my two leak responders start searching for surrounding main valves to secure this leak and fire, a total of five more valves. While we were trying to locate theses valves, the water company responded to mark out the water main and services. After about 45 minutes, he came over to me and stated they did not have a water main any where near where the water valve box was. I had my crew open up that box to see if it was our gas main valve but it was filled with asphalt. I had my crew excavate that box down to the valve and it was our gas valve which we then shut to secure the leak and extinguish the fire. That took 2 1/2-3 hours to do from our time of arrival. Definitely unacceptable in my book and I spent the next hour apoligizing to the chief who was a genuine nice guy. It turned out the road had been repaved about 2 years prior. The contractor had damaged the gas valve box, did not report it and replaced it with a water valve box he had. You never know what you will find. Now back to the Scarsdale incident.  If I recall correctly, the FD said from the time of their arrival to the explosion was about 5 minutes. The first Con Ed responder, a supervisor, was able to locate and t/off the curb valve stemming the gas that was feeding the fire. As I stated earlier, the PCS does not want code 3 response and I personally did not want code 3 response having driven fire dept rigs code 3 and knowing the dangers. So my opinion and the way I understood the policy, the fire dept is to evacuate and make safe. 

To add to my above post, as per teaching firefighters to shut off gas in the street. Did you just walk up to the firehouse one day and say I want to be a firefighter, then was invited in, given gear, told you were the OV and then told to get on the rig, we've got a run? No, of course not. Whether paid or volley, their is mandated training that you must pass. Then their is requalifying, maintaining of the equipment etc, etc. Not to mention the experience factor. Can't teach that. Well the same thing exists in Con Ed. Contrary to popular opinion, we're not just pilot light lighters or as a Mt Vernon PD Sgt once said to me, "you're nothing but a bunch of ditch diggers."  There is required training, requalifying and certain equipment to use and maintain. Every Con Ed gas truck has a CGI on it that costs $3500.00. It has to be calibrated monthly and every time the batteries are replaced. If you want to play Con Ed, you have to play by the rules and have to have the same equipment that Con Ed has. Who is going to pay for those CGIs you'll have to have. Who is going to calibrate them when required. The calibrating device is rather expensive too. Who is going to arrange and pay for the training and requalifying? Con Ed gas comes under Federal DOT guidelines. As I stated in my above post about the FD that shut off a bunch of gas main valves trying to secure a leak and in error (and it was the FDNY, not a volley company). If a Con Ed mechanic operates a valve in error whether it be a main valve or curb valve as per DOT guidelines, he is immediately taken off duty, taken for drug and alcohol testing and remains off duty until completion of the investigation even if he was directed  or ordered to do so.  It's a serious business, not a game.

To add to my above post, as per teaching firefighters to shut off gas in the street. Did you just walk up to the firehouse one day and say I want to be a firefighter, then was invited in, given gear, told you were the OV and then told to get on the rig, we've got a run? No, of course not. Whether paid or volley, their is mandated training that you must pass. Then their is requalifying, maintaining of the equipment etc, etc. Not to mention the experience factor. Can't teach that. Well the same thing exists in Con Ed. Contrary to popular opinion, we're not just pilot light lighters or as a Mt Vernon PD Sgt once said to me, "you're nothing but a bunch of ditch diggers."  There is required training, requalifying and certain equipment to use and maintain. Every Con Ed gas truck has a CGI on it that costs $3500.00. It has to be calibrated monthly and every time the batteries are replaced. If you want to play Con Ed, you have to play by the rules and have to have the same equipment that Con Ed has. Who is going to pay for those CGIs you'll have to have. Who is going to calibrate them when required. The calibrating device is rather expensive too. Who is going to arrange and pay for the training and requalifying? Con Ed gas comes under Federal DOT guidelines. As I stated in my above post about the FD that shut off a bunch of gas main valves trying to secure a leak and in error (and it was the FDNY, not a volley company). If a Con Ed mechanic operates a valve in error whether it be a main valve or curb valve as per DOT guidelines, he is immediately taken off duty, taken for drug and alcohol testing and remains off duty until completion of the investigation even if he was directed  or ordered to do so.  It's a serious business, not a game.

First of all, I spent 42 years working for Con Ed in the Bronx and Westchester with the last 14 in Westchester as a supervisor in gas emergency until I retired last year. I responded to countless gas leak complaints both as a mechanic and as a supervisor. I am also a volunteer firefighter in Orange county. For me personally, the last thing I wanted to see is the fire dept on location when I arrived. They don't have the required equipment or training mandated by the PSC or the experience to investigate a leak. If it's on fire, I don't want anybody else than the fire dept but unfortunately the majority of firefighters lose interest quickly if it's not on fire. Then the paid depts. want to put the companies back in service asap and the volley companies in the day time Mon-Fri had what we call the paid firefighters responding, ie, the DPW members and their boss wants them back to work. So I would just prefer Con Ed to respond and if I need the services of the fire dept, I would request the FD.  At a damage that I responded to one time with the fire dept on location and blowing gas, the chief in charge told me they had shut off numerous valves to no good. I asked him how many valves and where they were. I got the deer in the headlights look back. I then went over and turned off the curb valve on the damaged service and secured the leak. They had turned off gas to numerouse homes and business, over 50. Restoration of gas is not simply turning the valves back on and is time consuming and costly.  A little info on responding. The New York State PSC mandates that all gas leak complaints must be responded to within 60 minutes. Con Ed has told the PSC that they will respond to 75% of the leak complaints within 30 minutes. That works well in the Bronx, Manhattan and Queens but can be difficult in Westchester. Con Ed will request the fire dept to respond if certain criterias of the leak complaint require it but the understanding is that it is to make safe by evacuating people in the area of the leak not to mitigate it.  The finest example of that was the damage in Scarsdale about 10 years ago where the contractor pulled the 1" high pressure service out of the regulator in the bsmt with ensuing high pressure gas filling up the house. The contractor called 911 and reported it but he did not evacuate his workers from the bldg. When the Scarsdale FD arrived, they evacuated the house where the damage was and the surrounding houses also. They opened windows in the house where the damage was to ventilate but being a cold day, the temperature dropped in the house and the thermostat called for heat and the house exploded but there were no injuries. Job well done. What would the outcome have been if they decided to look for valves? The curb valve was buried under construction material, main valves were further away in the intersections at the end of the street and can be and usually are difficult to open. In many older areas main valves can be much further apart than just in the immediate intersections and many are paved over. I was working the night of a gas main fire in Mamaroneck the night of a severe thunderstorm that took down a primary electric cable which grounded out on the ground burning a hole through a 4" steel medium pressure main that was four feet deep in the ground and igniting the gas. Such is the power of primary electric. Looking at our maps, I saw the location of the main valve but could not locate it, only a water valve. I had my construction crew start excavating in the area of where the main was (it was a one way feed down a dead end street) and had my two leak responders start searching for surrounding main valves to secure this leak and fire, a total of five more valves. While we were trying to locate theses valves, the water company responded to mark out the water main and services. After about 45 minutes, he came over to me and stated they did not have a water main any where near where the water valve box was. I had my crew open up that box to see if it was our gas main valve but it was filled with asphalt. I had my crew excavate that box down to the valve and it was our gas valve which we then shut to secure the leak and extinguish the fire. That took 2 1/2-3 hours to do from our time of arrival. Definitely unacceptable in my book and I spent the next hour apoligizing to the chief who was a genuine nice guy. It turned out the road had been repaved about 2 years prior. The contractor had damaged the gas valve box, did not report it and replaced it with a water valve box he had. You never know what you will find. Now back to the Scarsdale incident.  If I recall correctly, the FD said from the time of their arrival to the explosion was about 5 minutes. The first Con Ed responder, a supervisor, was able to locate and t/off the curb valve stemming the gas that was feeding the fire. As I stated earlier, the PCS does not want code 3 response and I personally did not want code 3 response having driven fire dept rigs code 3 and knowing the dangers. So my opinion and the way I understood the policy, the fire dept is to evacuate and make safe. 

First of all, I spent 42 years working for Con Ed in the Bronx and Westchester with the last 14 in Westchester as a supervisor in gas emergency until I retired last year. I responded to countless gas leak complaints both as a mechanic and as a supervisor. I am also a volunteer firefighter in Orange county. For me personally, the last thing I wanted to see is the fire dept on location when I arrived. They don't have the required equipment or training mandated by the PSC or the experience to investigate a leak. If it's on fire, I don't want anybody else than the fire dept but unfortunately the majority of firefighters lose interest quickly if it's not on fire. Then the paid depts. want to put the companies back in service asap and the volley companies in the day time Mon-Fri had what we call the paid firefighters responding, ie, the DPW members and their boss wants them back to work. So I would just prefer Con Ed to respond and if I need the services of the fire dept, I would request the FD.  At a damage that I responded to one time with the fire dept on location and blowing gas, the chief in charge told me they had shut off numerous valves to no good. I asked him how many valves and where they were. I got the deer in the headlights look back. I then went over and turned off the curb valve on the damaged service and secured the leak. They had turned off gas to numerouse homes and business, over 50. Restoration of gas is not simply turning the valves back on and is time consuming and costly.  A little info on responding. The New York State PSC mandates that all gas leak complaints must be responded to within 60 minutes. Con Ed has told the PSC that they will respond to 75% of the leak complaints within 30 minutes. That works well in the Bronx, Manhattan and Queens but can be difficult in Westchester. Con Ed will request the fire dept to respond if certain criterias of the leak complaint require it but the understanding is that it is to make safe by evacuating people in the area of the leak not to mitigate it.  The finest example of that was the damage in Scarsdale about 10 years ago where the contractor pulled the 1" high pressure service out of the regulator in the bsmt with ensuing high pressure gas filling up the house. The contractor called 911 and reported it but he did not evacuate his workers from the bldg. When the Scarsdale FD arrived, they evacuated the house where the damage was and the surrounding houses also. They opened windows in the house where the damage was to ventilate but being a cold day, the temperature dropped in the house and the thermostat called for heat and the house exploded but there were no injuries. Job well done. What would the outcome have been if they decided to look for valves? The curb valve was buried under construction material, main valves were further away in the intersections at the end of the street and can be and usually are difficult to open. In many older areas main valves can be much further apart than just in the immediate intersections and many are paved over. I was working the night of a gas main fire in Mamaroneck the night of a severe thunderstorm that took down a primary electric cable which grounded out on the ground burning a hole through a 4" steel medium pressure main that was four feet deep in the ground and igniting the gas. Such is the power of primary electric. Looking at our maps, I saw the location of the main valve but could not locate it, only a water valve. I had my construction crew start excavating in the area of where the main was (it was a one way feed down a dead end street) and had my two leak responders start searching for surrounding main valves to secure this leak and fire, a total of five more valves. While we were trying to locate theses valves, the water company responded to mark out the water main and services. After about 45 minutes, he came over to me and stated they did not have a water main any where near where the water valve box was. I had my crew open up that box to see if it was our gas main valve but it was filled with asphalt. I had my crew excavate that box down to the valve and it was our gas valve which we then shut to secure the leak and extinguish the fire. That took 2 1/2-3 hours to do from our time of arrival. Definitely unacceptable in my book and I spent the next hour apoligizing to the chief who was a genuine nice guy. It turned out the road had been repaved about 2 years prior. The contractor had damaged the gas valve box, did not report it and replaced it with a water valve box he had. You never know what you will find. Now back to the Scarsdale incident.  If I recall correctly, the FD said from the time of their arrival to the explosion was about 5 minutes. The first Con Ed responder, a supervisor, was able to locate and t/off the curb valve stemming the gas that was feeding the fire. As I stated earlier, the PCS does not want code 3 response and I personally did not want code 3 response having driven fire dept rigs code 3 and knowing the dangers. So my opinion and the way I understood the policy, the fire dept is to evacuate and make safe. 

 
 
That's a good question. Anyone?

The red wagons are emergency electric splicers and respond to electric burnouts. If you see a red wagon in Westchester, it came up from Van Nest in the Bronx. As per the emergency stickers on the vehicles, they were put on certain vehicles such as the red wagons and the gas leak response vehicles to indicate to the police depts. that the vehicle has parkway permits  Though they now have emergency response groups in gas (2 vehicles) and electric that have sirens and red wig wags on the vehicles, must be a special permit. They respond to incidents and set up a Con Ed command post for communications. They are not there to mitigate the incident.  I should add that Con Ed is a private company and has no legal right to lights and sirens or to break into homes or other buildings. That is where the Fire depts and Police depts. come in.

The red wagons are emergency electric splicers and respond to electric burnouts. If you see a red wagon in Westchester, it came up from Van Nest in the Bronx. As per the emergency stickers on the vehicles, they were put on certain vehicles such as the red wagons and the gas leak response vehicles to indicate to the police depts. that the vehicle has parkway permits  Though they now have emergency response groups in gas (2 vehicles) and electric that have sirens and red wig wags on the vehicles, must be a special permit. They respond to incidents and set up a Con Ed command post for communications. They are not there to mitigate the incident.  I should add that Con Ed is a private company and has no legal right to lights and sirens or to break into homes or other buildings. That is where the Fire depts and Police depts. come in.

The red wagons are emergency electric splicers and respond to electric burnouts. If you see a red wagon in Westchester, it came up from Van Nest in the Bronx. As per the emergency stickers on the vehicles, they were put on certain vehicles such as the red wagons and the gas leak response vehicles to indicate to the police depts. that the vehicle has parkway permits  Though they now have emergency response groups in gas (2 vehicles) and electric that have sirens and red wig wags on the vehicles, must be a special permit. They respond to incidents and set up a Con Ed command post for communications. They are not there to mitigate the incident.  I should add that Con Ed is a private company and has no legal right to lights and sirens or to break into homes or other buildings. That is where the Fire depts and Police depts. come in.

The red wagons are emergency electric splicers and respond to electric burnouts. If you see a red wagon in Westchester, it came up from Van Nest in the Bronx. As per the emergency stickers on the vehicles, they were put on certain vehicles such as the red wagons and the gas leak response vehicles to indicate to the police depts. that the vehicle has parkway permits  Though they now have emergency response groups in gas (2 vehicles) and electric that have sirens and red wig wags on the vehicles, must be a special permit. They respond to incidents and set up a Con Ed command post for communications. They are not there to mitigate the incident.  I should add that Con Ed is a private company and has no legal right to lights and sirens or to break into homes or other buildings. That is where the Fire depts and Police depts. come in.

http://www.cityofwhiteplains.com/index.aspx?NID=410

A few things jump out from this to me, I am pretty sure that not everyone here will agree with my priorities here, time for a rant.
 
1) Brotherhood or lack there of - Who made this recording? Who on earth records their brother firefighters in a moment of what can only bee seen off the cuff and obviously intended as comedic banter? This alone would make me not want to join a department where you have to worry about your fellow members recording what you say. It is bad enough we have to worry about the public filming public safety but now you have to set rat traps in your own parlor. For a thread dedicated to bad relations to depend so much on a video obtained in what can only be bad faith is startling.
 
2) Timing - This is apparently a year old. So someone knew of supposed misconduct but decided to wait and see when it would be the most opportune time to use it. This makes whoever sat on this video nothing more than a co conspirator at best. Had the windows been broken at this firefighter's house how would the holder of the video that could have prevented a crime be thought of? I for one would not call them a hero for coming up with evidence, I would think them a fool for not alerting the authorities. This is nothing more than an opportunistic person who for whatever reason has decided to kiss up to one side in an unrelated debate. I see the sudden unveiling of this recording as highly questionable.
 
3) Characterization - I know that nobody here has ever told or hear an off color or even mean spirited joke in a fire house. I know that every station in the world other than PCFD is apparently a monastic home for innocent choir boys that have never uttered an unkind word against another member. However for a lawyer to characterize this as encouraging vandalism is playing on the public's ignorance. What I heard was someone saying that he hoped to respond to a certain house that night (far more troubling to me) and that if they did to break every window in the place (which I took as a remark on the ongoing fire service debate on ventilation) To break windows or not break windows is something that gets discussed over and over, even among the choirboys. However even when one firefighter/department/chief sees what they think as too much glass breaking I don't think it rises to the level of vandalism. Plus the qualification of tying this to an anticipated response tells me this is not a call to go out and commit a crime as the shady ambulance chaser thinks it is.
 
I am far more troubled by the idea that someone hopes to respond to another members home. This tells me that he wishes for a fire or other emergency to effect this member AND THEIR FAMILY. This is far worse than breaking a window or even all of them. As much as emergency services can sometimes be see as morbid in hoping for good calls, I don't think we should even entertain the concept of hoping for calls at other members homes. This is disgusting, but requires the baisc concept of brotherhood to be fully understood. This means that my opinion probably would not inflame the public enough to push an agenda.
 
4) Agendas - In the other thread about Port Chester it was asked why the volunteers were not standing up for their paid brothers. This lawyer is why! He says that this is why you can't have a volunteer chief. I don't get the connection. I have met idiots and [expletives] on both sides of the pay check. We are constantly told to see beyond the payroll and take each brother as an individual, so why is this not a case of investigating one person and finding out if they did something wrong? Why is this seen as an example of why no volunteer can ever possibly be chief? Because there is an agenda that comes from some (but not all) career staff that is guided by the overriding principle of getting rid of volunteers. I don't think there are conferences or pamphlets, I don't think any person or organization would be stupid enough to leave such a paper trail. Then again, it is apparently OK to secretly record your brothers, so maybe there is some grainy cellphone footage out there of a second gunman on the grassy knoll. This lawyer is certainly of the mind that PCFD not only needs career firefighters (which I don't think is up for debate) but apparently also needs a paid chief (which I think is absolutely debatable). This seems like a case of never letting a good scandal go to waste.
 
It seems to me that actions by all of those involved here, The person who wishes ill on another member and their family, the person who secretly records the goings on in a firehouse and then sits on the recording for a year, and the lawyer who is willing to make broad statements to push an agenda are all the reason we have the acronym BMA!