Seth, all manufacturers have had some lemons float out there at times. Cal EMA (formerly OES) has been buying HME urban interface pumpers at a good clip over the past 8 years or more. As far as I know they are still buying them. AT one point, HME had a dealer set up to sell in the New England area, and my old hometown dept bought an Ahrens Fox 1500 GPM pumper in 2004. As far as I can tell, hacve had no problema with it at all. Brockton Fire has been all HME up until this year. With the dealer gone, they have 2 Pierces on order. The knocks against almost all custom builders surface regularly, usually from a small dept. who does not like change or has had a real problem with one rig. Still waiting to hear about the FDNY contract for 96 engines, any hard news on this yet? For those that do not remember, L A County Fire also ordered and has in service 96 engines from an order several yaers ago. They have ordered more this year and have had KMEs for ten years or more.