MF237

I have read on a number of sites the backlash, almost all based on the board being unpatriotic or trying to be PC.
 
Beyond, what the board reported as being a safety issue, no one knows what the motivation is. 
 
But, I have witnessed, flags getting larger and larger on the back of rigs, to the point that we are disrespectful of the flag.
 
On engines, I have witnessed hose being laid over a flag that's so large that without wind or driving it hung below the level of the bed.
 
On ladders, I have witnessed grease and tattered ends on the flag where it whips against the turntable gear. I have also seen where it rubs on ground ladders as they are moved in and out of the ladder tunnel.
 
On all rigs, I have seen filthy flags, because the dirt that swirls around the rear of the rigs.
 
On the safety side, I have seen them hiding flashing safety lights, turn signals and break lights. Saw one get burned by high intensity flood lights and have seen firefighters grabbing the flag to help them climb the rig.
 
This is not patriotic, nor is it how the flag should be respected! I am not saying they should be removed, but consider how we are displaying them.

Has anyone thought that the the Village of Port Chester's  labor counsel Bond Schoeneck & King may have something to do with this. Terry O'Neil the attorney is also representing Garden City and Long Beach where they are also laying off firefighters  in combination departments.

Has anyone thought that the the Village of Port Chester's  labor counsel Bond Schoeneck & King may have something to do with this. Terry O'Neil the attorney is also representing Garden City and Long Beach where they are also laying off firefighters  in combination departments.

It would seem Rye Brook should look at legal options.  But Vtach is right why not just take that $1mil and hire the 8 on to the small exisiting career staff RB has now.  How many professional FF does RB have?  Unfortunately if they get a fire or something big they will need mutual aid, but hey in todays Westchester County Fire system everyone calls for MA.  I know its not a solution but RB can start to build a career staff  for a small town.  If they get the big one well they have options close by White Plains, Rye, Harrison.
 
Also Pete K is correct there are PC volleys who definitely don't live or work in PC but volunteer.  I have heard sometimes they struggle to get guys to some alarms and engine can't roll.  

Just a couple of things to toss into the ring:
When the YFD began the CFR program, I did see a memo posted on YFD letterhead that said they would stop sending folks on EMS runs when 6 or more companies were being used elsewhere. That was 20 years ago and may have changed. Since I think YFD sends 4 engines, two ladders and a rescue, (4+2+1=....7!) that would mean that any time there was a fire call going on that no one had freed up from, EMS ops would stop. I beleive that for some fire calls in SFR's they send less. As a guy on the street, whether FD comes or not is a total mystery. I can do two identical calls back to back, one gets FD the other not.
Sometimes the local engines are on runs or the call is near a posted ambulance, and the ambulance is way ahead of the engine. Some calls are walk-ins to firehouses and the amulance is coming from a distance. With (I think) 10 fixed engine stations, engines tend to be closer, just since there are a lot of them.
PLEASE don't frame this as a union fight. I am a steward in the IAEP Local 20. We have no dog in this fight. My guys jobs are not in danger, as EMS cal volume is always climbing and will continue to do so for the forseeable future. Additional trends- like taking pt's to thier hospital of origin, even if it is far away, working arrests on scene for longer and such means lots of work for us.
Regarding the poster c/o bad numbers from Empress: can you tell us what numbers and what they were, and what you think the real numbers are? Are we talking abut call numbers, units available, times? Maybe I can help.
About the poster c/o single responder: That is life in EMS. It is done in Eastchester, Cortlandt, Greenburgh, Yonkers, Pelham and Yorktown and many others. The FD in some of those areas sends a BLS truck with one FF on it. Many PD sectors in East Yonkers run 1 man cars, BTW.
For the guy that asked about a YFD EMS: Always possible. It would take a while to get the papers done- like a year I figure. But if you staffed it with Firemen, they cost about $150,00/year each after pay, pensions, medical etc are figured in. It takes 5 guys to have 1 guy on 24X7. So one ambulance = 10 guys. so $1.5 million/year for staffing a single ambulance. I think Yonkers would need 4-5. Then you have to send the guys to medic class, which has about 30% drop-out rate. It takes a year, and they would not be doing many fire OR ambulance calls during that time. And they guys would want more $$ for being medics. YFD I believe pays their guys who become EMT's a $3000/year stipend (corrections welcome). So figure a FF who becomes a medic would get about $10,000 more? THEN you have lawsuits. Empress indemnifies Yonkers (covers) for those. You would have to budget for lawyers and the occasional loss of a suit or a high priced settlement. Oh- and 5 $40,000 cardiac monitors and 1/2 dozen ambulances and a mechanic. THEN since you are only doing 911 calls, there would be many hours that every one of those guys and trucks would be doing nothing but soaking up payroll. AND since the NYS legislature has not moved on allowing FD's to bill since George Pataki introduced it 20 years ago, there is no way to off-set this new $10 million annual cost that by the way, will not put out a single fire- just answer EMS calls.

Great post my Brother, whoever you are, lol- please let me know your identity if you don't mind. Thanks to you and Capt. Smith for the informative posts and to all of our members for not discrediting ourselves or our department by engaging in name calling and nasty, unprofessional language. Of course I would never expect our guys to sink to the level that some others on this thread have sunk to, but thanks nonetheless...
I will add a bit from my perspective- please bear with me as I am exhausted and pressed for time do I will bang this out quickly and it may be a bit rough around the edges....
I am nearing the end of my career, and frankly, I don't really think I will be personally affected if in fact the YFD First Responder Program did end, although I sincerely doubt that will happen for long, if at all, and I will explain why below. In fact, I certainly have more to lose by posting on this topic rather than remaining silent as this will likely piss some people off...oh well...
I have been a member of YFD for almost 25 years, since before we had a First Responder Program. As a very junior Firefighter I was a member of the committee which some at the time said "ruined the job" by convincing first, Local 628, and later, with the backing of L-628, helped to convince the City Fathers that this program was a good idea. The union did not come up with the idea of this program or push for it at first. You see, years ago, YFD only responded on medical runs when there was a confirmed cardiac arrest and Empress Ambulance either was not available at all, or did not have enough personnel available to perform good CPR. We responded on those fairly often. We had only very basic first aid training and CPR. There were numerous times when we performed CPR for very long periods of time before the arrival of the ambulance. Sometimes a Paramedic fly car would arrive and we would wait, and wait....sometimes not even the fly car. The Empress employees were almost always professional, dedicated, and we had a great working relationship. It sure wasn't their fault that the number of ambulances available didn't meet the need at that moment. One day, at Engine 306 where I worked, a family ran in with a baby in respiratory distress who had actually turned blue. A senior man /EMT opened the airway and started Oxygen. The baby wound up being ok. The family was irate that they had called over 20 minutes before and we had not responded (we checked the times and this was accurate). We explained that FD did not get sent to these type of calls unless it was a cardiac arrest and Empress requested us. It was very upsetting to me/us to know that people who we were sworn to protect, particularly children, could be having a life threatening medical emergency that we would be able to assist with, yet we would not be called.
I really never wanted to do emergency medical work back then- I thought of myself as a Firefighter and my idea of a Firefighter was different than what it is today. Nonetheless, because of situations such as I have described above, I agreed with some other Firefighters who advocated for us to go on these runs more regularly as was being done in other parts of the country, and seemingly very successfully. It took a couple of years, but eventually the program began. At the time, approximately 22 years ago, it is my understanding that Empress was charging the City of Yonkers a flat 1 Million per year for their services plus the ability to recoup from billing. Almost as soon as we began the First Responder Program that ccontract was re-negotiated and Empress then waived this 1 Million dollar fee. Also, there was no minimum number of ambulances that were required to be dedicated to City of Yonkers- almost as soon as YFD began going on these runs,it was noticed how very bad Empress' response times were- not due to any fault of the overworked Empress EMT's and Medics, but again, because of a lack of appropriate resources. So, very shortly because of YFD complaints, Empress agreed to keep a minimum number of ALS and BLS units in the city and this was put into their contract. I also think that it was at this time that a certain maximum average response time for Empress BLS and ALS units was placed into Empress' contract which improved things dramatically. I guess if prior to YFD involvement no one was really paying attention to ressponse times, why bother having a lot of ambulances available- the number of billable patients was not dependent on response time- they would all wait as long as it took for the ambulance so why incur the expense if no one was complaining, right?
Admittedly, I haven't gone on a First Responder rum for almost 7 years now, but I did respond on very many over the years. Almost always, I found Empress employees to be fantastic and I thought we had a great working relationship, even if there was a bit of uncomfortability at times- egos and jealousy and just basic human misunderstanding on both sides creeps in of course, however in my opinion we were mostly all regular working people who enjoyed the adrenaline rush and especially, helping people. During the approximately 15 years that I went on First Responder runs with YFD there were very many times that we arrived significantly before Empress ambulance. The large majority of time we arrived at least a couple of minutes before Empress, and often, especially when I worked on the East side of Yonkers, more than 10 minutes prior to Empress. As Captain Smith was, I was involved in 2 successful childbirths (the Moms did basically all of the work of course but they were sure glad that we were there nonetheless) before Empress arrived (not the same ones), and I and my crew initiated CPR COUNTLESS TIMES before Empress' arrival. END OF PART 1 TO BE CONTINUED

Yes, please launch a media attack on the volunteer service. (sarcasm) You, sir, are a known enemy of us volunteers. Don't make like we haven't heard of your exploits trying to get volunteers shut out of the service. Deal with your own problems before you attack us. Got a problem with the way things are done? Volunteer and help us out. I'm not saying we are perfect, but I'll be damned if you think you can spread your volunteer hating rhetoric without opposition.
Have a nice day :-)

Show up to the dock late and you missed the boat, my friend. I'm not bashing the career guys (as a whole), nor would I ever. The moral of my story is "people who live in glass houses". I know our side of things has its issues, and I'm doing my best from the inside to fix them. I take care of my own problems before I say something about someone else's. And if I am on a sinking ship (gotta love the nautical references here), I don't try to drag down others with me. However, I heard about this man in particular within weeks of first joining the service. In my years in, his name continually comes up in stories about his (mis)exploits trying to shut out volunteers. So perhaps I harbor a vendetta. That being said, the media has the right to pound salt. All they do is blow things out of proportion and make changes that much more difficult. And yes, I would bash anyone personally who tries to throw us as a volunteer organization, to the wolves.
PS: "Going out on a limb" is fancy speak for ASSume.

50 mph thats on the right shoulder

I don't have an issue with career firefighters. I have an issue with you.
I, and so many more people, have grown tired of you only speaking up on these forums to beat your drum and stand atop your soapbox to deem all volunteer fire departments as incapable, lying, deceitful organizations. You think because you use big words and generally have ample grammar in your posts, that all of us are blind to your obvious dismay for the majority of us.
The issues ongoing in the Irvington FD are being beaten to death here with no true resolve. I agree with you that it's noble of the gentleman involved to stand for what he believes in. Just as I think anyone who stands up for what they believe in is honorable, because let's face it, too many people would rather not take a position on something and join the majority (drink the Kool-Aid, if you will).
Anyone that doesn't see you for who you really are and for the views you have of us evil volunteers is either naive or blind. We aren't perfect, not a single one of us is, but do you really, honestly think that coming on here and playing your game is solving anything? And am I alone on these forums to think that this story in Irvington is going to have little or no impact on anything?
There's so many more things in this world and in what we do that need our attention. And for me, those issues are ensuring we all are offering the best fire prevention training, fire safety education, strict code enforcement and adequate response to any emergency we're called upon - regardless of the community, department and whether or not those sworn to do these tasks is paid, period.
You're an intelligent man from what I can tell, with a wealth of knowledge and experience that could help better the fire service. Do you really think spending your time trying to dissect and disassemble the volunteer fire service is helping ANYONE?
Good day to you, sir.

i dont understand. situation? there is no situation except for all this hating on this and the patch webpages. there was an accusation and the accussed was delt with. nick resigned and after further look into New York State LAW the village attorney advised that he cannot be a fireman for the department. nick was sent letter asking to rejoin the company(if not willing to do so was asked to turn all of the departments belongings in which still has not happened). if he did rejoin it does not mean that he has to involve himself in any type of company functions. lets all sit behind computers and bad mouth this and bad mouth that. when it comes down to it Irvington Fire Department is an excellent trained department and trains more hrs a month than 90% of other departments in westchester county. One man cannot put a structure fire out himself. so enough with the hating on the entire department(some of you), and keep sitting around feeling bad for an individual that chose to resign which in the end took him out of the game. Come on man!! Keep beating the dead horse boys. Good talk.

Mr. Flynn not all monies are used for parades and parties in the vollie world as you claim. The donations that are made are always there for the fire fighters to take classes when they can find time in their schedule to take such a class. For you to claim that the monies are very rarely used on equipment, apparatus or training is not only false but insulting. While some depts do goto parades does not mean that the right thing is not being done. Now before you go on the defensive you should know that I do not march with any fire dept or goto very many parties. This is just my thought and opinion. And the bottom line is that I know anytime I want or have the time to I can take any class I want because the monies is there for me. And like others say the job doesn't care about career vs vollie!

it is obvious to most reading these posts what you are attempting...the very childish and weak tactic of distraction from the issue at hand, such as when a child is caught with their hand in the cookie jar, and instead of admitting fault, exclaiming "well, my sister smeaks cookies all the time and doesn't get caught!"
This thread is not about alleged abuse of workers compensation by career firefighters. Feel free to start a thread about that though if you wish. Man up and come with some facts though. By law, all of the records you would need to attempt to prove your allegation are accessible to you, unlike the unaccessible books of volunteer fire departments.
The issue in Irvington was brought to light by the courageous and ethical stand taken by a volunteer firefighter and backed up by several other courageous and ethical volunteer firefighters, so I fail to understand why you constantly choose to attack career firefighters. However, keep going for it...all it does is serve to further expose your motivations for what they are.

So wrong on so many levels. You can't compare FDNY to Westchester and some departments, to be blunt, don't work well together. Either because of egos and attitudes, different SOP's and training or some old feud that nobody remembers but "oh we don't call THEM for mutual aid!".
FDNY operates with the same training, SOP's, equipment, and hierarchy. They all have the same training and SOP, they all have the same equipment, and the bosses are all well trained and experienced. An engine is an engine and a ladder is a ladder. You know exactly what you're getting with each.
Westchester has 50 something different departments all with different training, procedures, leadership, expectations, and capabilities. Engines may be coming with one guy or they may be coming with a driver and two exterior "FF" or it may be a crew of four trained firefighters. You never know.
There are a lot of variables but the departments shouldn't be one. You should know that when you call 911 and report a fire blowing out the windows of an OMD, you're getting the troops. Even the 2nd and 3rd alarms that they chief called in Hempstead mean entirely different things in every Westchester department.
Hey bnechis, here's a question. The standard is 12+1 or 36+1 for a regular residential single family house. Is there a standard for a job like this? It's got to be at least double, no?

In a recent journal news article touting Andy Spano's Achievements (revisionist History) stated how he and the County DES coordinated resources to NYC on 9/11 at Yonkers racetrack - Nothing could be further from the truth! - It was NYSOFPC who requested Yonkers Racetrack be established as a staging area for resources going into NYC - 60 (lack of) control stood by while just about every dept in Westchester with an exception of a few freelanced and responded to where ever they wanted to buff out! It was not until late that evening that that a Bronx Division Chief requested to get all of the unauthorized units out of the Bronx - and sent every one to Yonkers Raceway - Westchester County through the corrections dept. did provide breakfast the following morning at the track for all buffs in attendance! This is a disgrace that the Spano administration is claiming this as a highlight of his administration (as printed in the Journal News) - when in fact he and DES did nothing but add to the confusion - I would dare any one to say anything to the contrary! "The Emperor has no clothes" bring it on - !!!!!
http://www.lohud.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2009912310327