Dinosaur

If the hydrant was in a fenced-in dog pen and not out at the curb like a normal hydrant it would seem to be the FD's mistake. People have the damndest things as ornaments or decorations, even fire trucks!

If anyone from South Salem or the mutual aid companies can enlighten us, did the pre-plan for this house or neighborhood work? There must be a pretty detailed plan for moving enough water to an area like that for those big houses. How many gallons of water was on the initial response? Would you say that it's adequate for a structure of that size or do we need to reevaluate plans in non-hyrdanted areas? I'm not second-guessing or MMQB'ing but we can learn alot about water supply issues in our areas from it. Glad everyone's OK and nobody was hurt.

Good stop on that job, YFD! I remember when that neighborhood burned by the BLOCK!

How often do you actually see staging set up and managed the way its supposed to be? Or at all? Report to "staging" but the staging is just a point a couple houses down from the fire and nobody's there doing check-in or organizing the resources. You're right. It's as good as our staffing, response times, and everything else you mentioned.

And if it was one single regional department all you'd have to do is show up and check in.

I'm not sure Westchester would be best served by a single FD but I bet it would be served better by a number that could be counted on one hand instead of three peoples pinkies and toes!

Despite all the signs, billboards to some, there are those who don't see that this is the solution. It would be so easy to roll some of these duplicative FD's into larger regional ones and see some real progress. Too bad almost everyone fights it. The funny thing is listening to the arguments from the kids (teens and 20-somethings) who think their little FD is the cat's arse. Comical. I used to argue (usually unsuccessfully) that the Safety Officer wasn't the accountability person but needed to know that everyone was accounted for. The Safety Officer has many more responsibilities than collecting tags. There should be someone assigned to just that reporting back to the ICP - where the IC and Safety Officer should both be - that everyone is or isn't accounted for.

Just another example of what's wrong with the system. You're right. A lot of training can be accomplished on these calls but most people just want to get their name on the check-list of who showed up for other reasons than training or firefighting and then disappear back into the woodwork. Wrong answer. If you have the time for the alarm, you have time for 20-30 minutes of useful training. That's all that this would take and we used to run drills like this all the time. It can be a very valuable experience for those who show up and can actually increase participation because its no longer just a wasted trip it's training too. To position apparatus, receive assignments, deploy with appropriate equipment, TIC the building, and even throw up the stick/bucket doesn't require a lot of time or preparation. Just do what you'd do if the place was on fire. If you don't have time for that you shouldn't have responded in the first place. The problem with doing this exclusively on drill nights is there are far more people (usually) and the same people will push to do all the work while the wall-flowers sit by and don't get the experience. On the AFA call you probably have 1/2 or 1/3 the number of people and some of the wall-flowers will have to be your go-getters. That's also a realistic issue for the officers giving out assignments. Giving out assignments is easy on drill night because you've got so many people but at the actual alarm when you've got 6 instead of 16 it can be a real challenge. You don't have to put people on the roof, just throw the ladder or bucket up and have guys go up and see what kind of roof it actually is? Is it covered with wires that will be hazards to you during a real fire? Is it covered with heavy equipment like AC units and the like? Or is it a truss roof that may be susceptible to collapse? Do all your people know that already? I doubt it. TIC the roof and identify what equipment is operating. If the occupant/owner doesn't like you doing a pre-plan they need an education and that can be the Chief's job while you're there. What do they say about an ounce of prevention? 3 million dollars of apparatus on the road or in the firehouse. What's the difference? The fuel cost is budgeted already so the only thing you're expending is a little time. One of the biggest complaints I used to hear is not enough training, not enough training or stupid training that doesn't do us any good. If apparatus placement, equipment orientation and deployment, and small unit tactics isn't valuable I don't know what is. To all those who say they don't have time, I say: "train the way you fight, fight the way you train". If you're conditioning everyone to believe that responses are a waste of time they're not going to be prepared when they roll up and have fire rolling out the windows. There are very few excuses NOT to train when the opportunity presents itself. You're responding anyway, might as well make it worth the trip. All these people with all these excuses not to train. It's sad and its scary. With that attitude I doubt you're getting enough training to begin with.

Being retired and having nothing better to do (alright I just didn't want to rake the yard) I watched that video and have some thoughts. The mayor made a very poor decision having that chief speak on his behalf. Instead of using negatives for everything he should have sold his plan with all of its positives (even if I don't believe half of his propaganda). I'm willing to bet that that chief's resume is on the top of the pile when the job is announced for chief of the new VFD. So painfully transparent. Much of the presenters points were anecdotal, the presentation was too long and lacking in specificity that legislative bodies need and want and the constant attempts to smear the SFRD were as transparent as his claims about the proposed department seemingly false. The mayor should have had an objective, neutral, professional staffer make the presentation highlighting the improvements and positive things that his plan would bring instead of the same old tired rhetoric. All that said the Board of Representatives seems genuinely engaged and interested. They should work with the mayor and instead of this constant BS back and forth start with a clean slate. The City limits are well established and they seek to provide comparable, consistent service to the entire City. They should take all that is currently available, personnel (paid and volunteer), apparatus, facilities, buildings, etc. and use NFPA 1710/1720 to set up the BEST system for the entire city. Having two or three different departments isn't going to be any better than the 5-6 they have now. They'll just have some fat-cat chief in a new paid position. Map all the stations, position the apparatus, and start filling the busier stations with career personnel and backing them up with qualified volunteers. Roster all the FF the same way regardless of their pay status. If a company can be staffed entirely with properly trained volunteers, let it be. If it can't be, staff it with career guys. Make each rig roll with 3 FF and an officer. Building a system that will respond with 1-2 career guys is not the answer and since they're all willing to make some dramatic changes fix it right. Develop a method for advancement within the volunteer ranks and a pathway into the career side for those who want a job. Develop a single standard for FF training with two options for completing it - full-time fast track (career) and part-time for volunteers. Stamford deserves a single, effective FD that covers the entire city instead of just shuffling the same problems around. Start from the bottom and build yourselves a new system that as someone else here already said, will last the next 30+ years. If people don't start letting go of the same old BS and complaints they're never going to get anywhere. But what do I know. I was just in combination department for my entire career.

Then lets call a spade a spade and do away with this 800 pound "volunteer" anchor weighing us down. If you're going to pay people per call or have a duty stipend, they're getting paid and shouldn't claim to be volunteers anymore. Create one fire department for the entire town with one eminently qualified Chief of Department and have full-time FF, part-time FF, and per call FF that all meet a minimum standard for fitness, training, etc. Staff the apparatus with 3 FF and an officer and it won't matter whether its a per call FF or a full-time FF because they're all the same! The City isn't so big and the fire load isn't so high that this can't be done. It just takes people's willingness to accept change.

Taxpayers have expectations regardless of how much they pay in taxes. Sure those paying through the nose may have higher expectations but the bottom line is they all expect some response. It is our responsibility to support minimum standards, response times, training standards, cost-efficiencies, and proactive responses to all kinds of situations. The fact that we still have two different standards for FF, no response time requirements, and EMS services that can't get out the door speaks volumes about how we fail to meet our responsibility and condone this pathetic excuse for a "system".

With all the lay-offs, attacks on pensions and benefits, and use of public sector employees as political pawns, I wonder why anyone still wants to get on the job!

So career FF in NY have to complete 100 hours of training. What about the volunteers? Is it really just 8 hours of OHSA training per year?

Special Ops was 800 series. It includes traffic, ESU, and K-9. Or so says a retired buddy of mine that worked traffic.

I've been to more then enough funerals but don't see your point about line of duty death funerals being so different. What do you mean by that?

I must be missing something. What is the difference between a line of duty funeral and a funeral for another member? I've been to both and most often they try to make the non-LODD just like the LODD. Sorry, but I gotta agree that it is different and shouldn't be treated the same. Sure show respect. Sure honor the member's memory. But don't tell me that you do it the same way as someone killed in the line of duty. This guy's job was with the highway department, right? How come he wasn't carried on a DPW truck? I'm not trying to tarnish his memory or bash the FD but what makes this guy's hobby more important than his career? Line of duty deaths warrant the full show of honors and tribute.

What do you think adequate staffing is for a city fire department?

Good question. If we don't start dealing with our issues they're going to get dealt with for us, by the very same people who are closing ladder companies in New Rochelle and laying off firefighters all over the place. Now is the right time to start improving things for the entire fire service in Westchester. 150 years of tradition, 1 step forward today, 1 step forward tomorrow.

I was just talking to a buddy of mine whose department is buying a new engine. They did all the spec's, went on all the trips to see the factory, and others using the same frame. Delivery is just a few months away and lo and behold they discovered that it won't fit in their firehouse. I know we've seen this discussed before and I know it is usually the brunt of a joke or two but I want to ask a serious question. How is it that the FDNY and other departments with old and small firehouses are able to house brand new apparatus without these issues? I mean if the FDNY and some of the older Westchester departments can put new apparatus in 100 year old firehouses shouldn't we all be able to?

Are the cities in Orange County adequately staffed? What is their staffing? Newburgh is about 4 sm with 28,886 people, Middletown is 5.1 sm with 28,086 people, and Port Jervis is only about 2.5 sm with 8860 people. Port Jervis is a volunteer department so what's with Newburgh and Middletown? How many members do they have?

Probably not but a lot of other fireground activities can (should) be halted to effect the rescue so you can reassign resources to the rescue effort. It also speaks volumes about having resources staged and not simply operating. If you kept an engine and truck company staged and this happened you'd have at least six additional FF's to assist. But since most departments can't operate without mutual aid, they're reluctant to call extra for staging because they'll be viewed as having abused the mutual aid. That's BS You don't need special funding to analyze and evaluate your operations. That's part of the job that is most often overlooked. How many chief's do after action analyses of their working jobs? Not too many sadly. As good as most departments may be there's always room for improvement.

There is? Really? I had no idea! :P

Now you're complicating things. Is the fuel purchased by the district, the VFD, or the VAC (as if the issues in New York weren't complicated enough, here's three different corporations servicing the same fire district and that doesn't count two different ALS providers)? As a member of the VFD can the district provide you with fuel they've purchased? The solution to keeping track isn't so simple either. Sure the system can allow thousands of users but how do you insure that only those who are entitled to obtain fuel do obtain it? What if I didn't make my calls for the month but I fuel up anyway? Then what? Since you're saying you don't want the fuel for free, how do you pay the district/FD for the fuel you obtain? That's probably a full-time job just to keep track. Then there is the issue of the IRS. Are you legally allowed to obtain fuel without paying taxes? Members not a tax exempt entity and may not be eligible as individuals. Someone should speak to a tax attorney too.

About time.

I think I remember seeing it asked once before but don't remember ever seeing an answer. Has anyone ever done a cost/benefit analysis of LOSAP? Does anyone know what it is costing in NYS every year? It would be interesting to know if it working and how much its costing.