Dinosaur

All tower ladders, huh? Is everyone afraid of a straight stick? With nothing but towers in the neighborhood, you're limiting your capabilities.

Got to admire her for standing up for what she believes.

I agree with you but I think we can both think of people who haven't been injured, aren't fire police and haven't done a damn bit of firefighting that are showing up and checking the box for their points.

Sorry, I have to disagree with you. What happens when your "drivers" or "exterior guys' who "don't want to or cannot be interior firefighters" are outside a building and one of the "interior" firefighters calls a mayday? My theory is that one of three things will happen: 1. They will attempt a rescue without the proper training, equipment, or experience and become victims themselves, or 2. They will stand-by while additional "firefighters" respond to perform the rescue and precious time is lost, or 3. The cops will attempt the rescue and that thread has already run its course. (If you can't tell, this is sarcasm and you should only respond to points 1 or 2). As long as there is no clear standard for firefighter, we are going to have these arguments and the rift between trained (career or volunteer) and untrained (only volunteer because NYS law requires career FF to be fully-qualified interior trained) is going to exist. Just out of curiosity, does a driver or an "exterior only 'firefighter'" get the same LOSAP benefits as the guy who straps on a pack and crawls down that smoke filled hallway?

ICS doesn't just sound good in class. It works really well if you bother to do it. If you're arguing over who has the better command post on a scene, you're not doing ICS because there is only ONE command post when you actually do ICS. I've seen the good, the bad and the ugly called ICS. Some people just don't get it!

How about adding FF Safety and Survival to FF 1 and make everyone interior! Train for the worst not just what it is "fun".

The logical solution is to train all firefighters the same, including RIT/FAST. The logical solution is to have only one training standard for all firefighters. "But we're volunteers and that's too much time" or "I have a job and a family, I don't have time for all that training" or "you have to appreciate us. we do this for free". Only we can stop this stupid BS and create a mandate for training. A single standard everywhere including RIT/FAST. We are only endangering ourselves with these stupid petty arguments. We are either firefighters or we are not! All the t-shirts or license plates, or flashing lights in the world aren't going to save someone's life if it goes bad. And it goes bad in a heartbeat! We can't afford to treat RIT/FAST as a unique specialty and call for teams from other counties when we have a fire. Every firefighter should be interior. There shouldn't be "exterior" or "support" guys called FF anymore. Do the whole job, not the parts you like or the parts that are convenient! Stand up and be a firefighter already!

Oh the irony!

Not even if you say "I think I can, I think I can".

Almost, huh? I have nothing against the officers who do get assigned to the boat when they get assigned to the boat. They all do a very good job within the limits of the department. How many boats does the county have? 3? 4? But they only staff one for the summer , right? And only on the Hudson. So the left side of the map gets a dedicated presence from the County but the right side of the map gets none. Sorry but that's like saying you only patrol the northbound side of the parkway and not the southbound. Still not your fault, it's mismanagement. There was a time that the county had the stakeholders gather to decide how grant money for Westchester County would be spent. There were debates and some huge disagreements (always bring popcorn for the show) but in the end the best projects got funding. Now some bosses have their very own tahoes and we have a fleet of boats that the county won't staff. Can you honestly tell me that another boat was the best use of those funds? Did anyone ask what other projects might be more important then yet another boat for the Hudson? Nothing personal, nothing personal at all.

Nope, And there are no cops on the boats either for much of the year. More squandered grant money.

I don't think the security was for the body. It was for the local business that took the body and held it pending burial. Because tempers were high and (as you can even see here in this thread) people were extremely worked up about it. It's not out of the realm of possibility that they would have taken out their frustration on the funeral home.

Those laws are easily amended IF there's a drive to do so. Nobody is going to go out and do it unless they're being lobbied to and right now all the lobbying is AGAINST consolidation/regionalization.

What does that mean for the SP aviation operation in Newburgh? Will they look for a new medical partner?

I don't think anyone is advocating a national FD here in the US. I think most of us would settle for regional departments at approximately the county size.

It is just an EXAMPLE. Yes, the nation is smaller than the State of Maine but WESTCHESTER, NASSAU, SUFFOLK, PUTNAM, ORANGE, DUTCHESS are also a lot smaller than the State of Maine so why don't we do something about it? Imagine if the 300+ departments in these counties became county sized regional departments??? The things that could be accompished would be amazing!

We've all read the textbooks and can list most of the initial fireground priorities at a "job" but what happens when you're not staffed by the book or you're riding short because City Hall won't hire to fill the vacancies in your department? We can't be all things to all people and despite all the TV shows and t-shirts to the contrary, we're not superheroes. Should we still be mounting an aggressive interior attack when we don't have adequate back-up outside? Should we change tactics and throw up the ground ladders and perform ventilation outside before heading in? When we know mutual aid is a ways off and they're going to be FAST or our back-up on the line, for ventilation, etc. should we adjust our attack plan? Should we be re-writing the book for inadequate staffing? I can't imagine being the officer on a first alarm assignment pulling up at a private house with flames blowing out the windows but knowing that there are only four guys on the two engines and one guy on the truck. Be safe and happy new year!

Hell no it's not a bad thing. What's bad is how we'd rather see our own department fail or worse, have a LODD, rather than become part of the solution. I was involved in very early discussions about this before I retired and can't believe nobody is carrying the torch anymore. I'm a big fan of well structured, well staffed regional departments.

Is this really an issue? FEMA has enough money to operate through February so there's plenty of time for Congress to appropriate more before that runs out, right? Or is that another lie from the government perpetuated by the media?

Well, a lot of how you'll feel would be based on what you know to be the knowledge and abilities of the guys on those trucks. If you have a solid group capable of getting after it, you may not feel all that bad. I work in a small career department that easily sees our share of working fires. I've been to numerous fires with the staffing you mention, but arriving with one engine and one quint. Our backup is orimarily our off-duty personnel and sometimes mutual aid companies too depending on the severity of the fire. We've knocked down many a good fire before the cavalry arrives. The key as I mentioned is everyone being experienced, well trained, knowing what their role is and executing to the best of their ability. In our case, at least on my shift, we know the play and the common audibles that might be called and can easily adjust to them on the fly. It's definitely more challenging than having the "right" amount of staffing and arguably "less safe", but at the same time I enjoy the "multi-tasking" we get to do. It isn't ideal, but you quickly learn how to prioritize the "normal" fireground tasks for the staffing you have and it sure as heck isn't "text book", but we're having good results. Alright ventilation was a bad example. How about laddering the egress points from upper floors? Let's see what you threw back at me: Experienced - most FF (career and volunteer) are not. The fire load is down and I know some guys that have very little real experience to back them up. Well-trained - we're not. Training for the fire service is abysmal and there's no standard outside of the 229 regs. Knowing their role - again, most don't and we don't routinely put people in the same position so they can learn their role. Today I'm doing this tomorrow I'll be doing that. There's no rhyme or reason at all and officers don't really care to address it in most departments. They're just happy somebody showed up. I enjoy multi-tasking but there's a difference between trying to work short-handed (all the time) and multi-tasking. Forget ideal, it isn't safe, it isn't legal and yet we continue to be our own worst enemies and operate this way day in and day out. To make matters worse, we lie to ourselves and our adminstrations when we say everything is okey dokey and we have enough people when we don't!

You can regurgitate all the text books you want but there really is a clear cut answer when you've only got THREE guys. Fire blowing out the 3rd floor windows of an OMD and all you've got is THREE guys. Someone's gotta throw the flag and call foul!

Let me be more clear since from the responses you're not getting my point. My point is why are we putting ourselves in harm's way and taking on the liability as officers by conducting operations that are simply unsafe? Why are we performing interior operations when there is nobody outside to rescue our sorry asses when it goes sideways? How come we don't have the balls to say "sorry, not on my watch" and STOP violating OSHA regulations or NFPA and ISO guidelines by having inadequate numbers of FF on scene? OSHA, NFPA, and ISO have all come out with regulations, standards, and guidance that says X is the right number and we consistently accept fractions of X instead of drawing a line in the sand. Where're the balls we all like to boast about having when it comes time to stand up to city hall or the commissioners or just our own conscience!!! I remember when my department still had a fairly solid volunteer roster to join the career staff but those days are over. I don't think I could send two guys in on a line without more personnel outside to bail them out of a jam. Maybe I'm paranoid in my old age but I'd rather fight it from the outside than knock on someone's door to tell them that their loved one isn't coming home because I failed to do my job. If you're the chief and you've got three guys on scene at a real worker, how do you in clear conscience send them inside the building? And another thing, after watching that video about the FDNY member bailing out and the issue of proper equipment, how does anyone permit operations without the right equipment? After reading about the Kingston job, how do we continue to operate without throwing ladders up on the outside and having a FAST/RIT ready to roll? Most of the responses to this have focused on doing the job at all costs and by any means necessary. I think we have to start rethinking that mindset and start seriously considering how we're going to evolve the fire service before bnechis's predictions come true and we're regionalized and consolidated by someone else.

How many officers/commissioners actively campaign for compliance with 1710/1720? How about telling the apparatus committee not to spec out an 8 man cab since there are never more than 3 guys in it? That'd start the ball rolling!

It's a start. We can only try our best to educate people about what our jobs really are. This is a good start!

Way to go! Nice job, Trooper!