bad box

"Not the typical tear jerking fire department documentary we are used to seeing." What does that mean?

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2014/07/20/in-church-rev-al-sharpton-appeals-for-justice-in-choke-hold-death/ http://nypost.com/2014/07/20/4-ems-workers-barred-from-duty-after-chokehold-death/

36 years ago today, at approximately 9:20 AM six heroic F.D.N.Y. Firemen were killed in the line of duty when the roof of the burning Waldbaum's Supermarket they were operating on collapsed. Please take a moment today to remember these heroic Firemen and their families: • Lt. James E. Cutillo, Battalion 33 • Firefighter Charles S. Bouton, Ladder Company 156 • Firefighter Harold F. Hastings, Battalion 42 • Firefighter James P. McManus, Ladder Company 153 • Firefighter William O’Connor, Ladder Company 156 • Firefighter George S. Rice, Ladder Company 153 Rest in peace Brothers, you will never be forgotten... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTzBg1YIZmI

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2014/07/27/new-york-family-reunites-with-fdny-heroes-who-saved-sons-life/

Wow, the FDNY group must have been quite a collection of misfits. You were light years ahead of even the instructors in vehicle extrication and all of the FDNY guys failed the search course while you rescued 3 civilians and a downed FF. while getting yourself out safely also. I can only imagine that the entire FDNY crew were demoted or sent back through probie school after you graduated.

http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2014/07/emts_and_paramedics_who_respon.html

EMTs and paramedics who responded to Eric Garner have been suspended without pay by hospital: http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2014/07/emts_and_paramedics_who_respon.html

The video only shows EMS personnel with the patient for a short time, but EMT's and Paramedics have protocols that they must follow immediately upon reaching the side of a patient (once they have assured the scene is safe). Most or all of the initial steps that should have been taken were not.

Are you a "NYC Medic"? If so, are you paid or volunteer?

Rather then constantly attacking members of the middle class who are employed as firefighters and law enforcement personnel, wouldn't it be refreshing to see elected officials putting an end to corporate welfare?

Several commissioners were voted out of office and the attorney for the fire district was let go. I've heard that members of a local political party club who also happen to be life long residents from the days before the community was significantly built up and modernized, decided that they didn't want the former commissioners to provide the things that were needed to allow for operation of a properly equipped, well trained, professional volunteer fire company. So they went door to door and ran a campaign of lies. They brought out enough misinformed folks to vote for the candidates that the political club wanted on the board. Now these newly elected folks (who appear to have no fire service knowledge and who have no interest in listening to and abiding by what the fire chief is telling them) are making decisions based solely upon seeking vengeance. Their mission appears to be to undo all of the good that the previous board did. If these commissioners are permitted to continue their misguided mission, at the very least it wouldn't surprise me to see the membership of the department stop volunteering and at the worst people may be placed in danger due to their V.F.D. being improperly equipped. Really a senseless and sad situation. It's terrible when politics are permitted to interfere with the mission of an emergency service.

We did when I was on the job ... Frequently it occurred several times or more per shift. And Firefighters are at risk in many other types of circumstances in addition to entering burning buildings. I'm not saying who has the most dangerous occupation, just stating some facts.

This isn't about missteps of individual firefighters or police officers, This is about the largest police department in the world and its leadership's total failure to ever in modern history train the officers (that they routinely dispatch to building fires) as to what and what not to do prior to the arrival of the fire department. To his credit, Police Commissioner Bratton has acknowledged (in the wake of this tragedy) that in addition to providing no fire scene training to police officers, the NYPD (as well as the other large city PD's that the chief of patrol contacted) have NEVER had an SOP for response to and operations at a building fire... Yet they have always dispatched police officers to respond forthwith to these incidents. In NYC this was a major problem during the time that I was a firefighter (1981-2002) especially in the late 1980's where 911 frequently delayed relaying fire calls to the FDNY while multiple sector cars were already enroute to the fire. It was common to arrive at a well advanced building fire with people hanging out the windows screaming for help only to encounter the entire block filled with sector cars leaving engine companies with no access to the closest hydrants and ladder companies without access to the front of the fire building eliminating the use of their aerial devices for rescue, ventilation and roof access. Frequently PO's took windows before lines were stretched. The danger to trapped civilians, PO's and firefighters was dramatically increased by the well meaning PO's. When then Fire Commissioner Joe Bruno publicly spoke of these problems, then Police Commissioner Ben Ward stated, "Anyone can put out the fire ... I put out my own damn fires!" It's mindless idiots like Ward who are responsible for tragedies such as the one in Coney Island that killed PO Guerra and severely injured his partner. Their actions were brave, unfortunately, the leadership of the NYPD let them down by never having trained them. Just as firefighters are not routinely dispatched to confront a perp with a gun, Police Officers should not be routinely dispatched to confront a fire in a building. Fire is not something to take lightly. God Bless both of these heroic police officers and their families and I pray that this tragedy leads to better training for police regarding fire incidents as well as a clear definition as to who should be responding to what.

The words of a responding Police Officer at approximately 6:57 on the audio says it all, "Why are you sending PD in there if it's a fire?" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItKHjeNjcZM For everyone who is posting as if the injured and deceased police officers' actions are being questioned, please take a breath and understand that it's realized and respected that these officers were brave in their efforts to do what they thought was appropriate. Their sacrifice (as well as that of their families) is immense. What's troubling to me as a firefighter is that the NYPD has never trained their personnel in the proper actions to take or not take at a fire scene. The department is 100% guilty of placing its personnel in grave danger every-time they dispatch them to a 911 call reporting a building fire. PO's are motivated public servants who are going to take action when they respond to any incident. If there is no formal training and no official department guidelines for actions at a fire incident, these motivated, well meaning personnel are likely to end up in a place they shouldn't be, taking actions that may cause harm to themselves, civilians as well as responding firefighters. Hopefully Commissioner Bratton now understands that a police officer shouldn't be dispatched to confront a burning building anymore than a firefighter should be dispatched to confront a perp with a gun. Sadly, it is now time to mourn a deceased hero...

May Police Officer Guerra rest in peace. Condolences to his family and fellow officers. Let us hope that this is the last time that a member of the NYPD is placed in this type of situation. From the NY Times: "After the fire Sunday, the Police Department began reviewing how officers respond to such conditions. Mr. Bratton said on Tuesday that no precise guidelines existed for approaching fires on high floors of buildings, and said the “policy deficiency” would be quickly corrected."

The officers were dispatched via radio to a 911 call reporting a "10-59 of a residence" (10-59 = fire) on the 13th of a residential high rise building. Upon their arrival, the police officers reported smoke coming from the windows of the building. This is the audio of the incident: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItKHjeNjcZM

Dispatching law enforcement personnel to building fires for the purpose of entering an IDLH atmosphere and conducting a search is playing Russian roulette with the LEO's lives. Just as common sense tells us not to dispatch firefighters to crimes in progress for the purpose of taking police action due to the obvious extreme danger to firefighters as they are not trained or equipped for such action, law enforcement personnel should not be placed in harm's way inside a burning building. I feel for the injured officers and their families. The officers acted bravely but should never have been placed in a situation such as this by their department to begin with. I am amazed that any law enforcement officer would agree with placing his brothers and sisters in situations that they are neither trained or equipped to handle. An appropriate way of honoring the two injured PO's would be for the police commissioner to immediately institute an SOP for response to and actions to be taken at fire scenes by police officers. The main theme should be police officer safety. God bless the two injured PO's and let this be the last time such a tragedy is permitted to occur.

F.D.N.Y. Rescue Companies responded to and operated at two dive jobs overnight in very close proximity to each other in Queens. Both jobs involved occupied automobiles that left the roadway and landed upside down in the water. http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/queens/car-filled-people-drives-creek-queens-article-1.1746537 http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/queens/suv-plunges-east-river-blocks-fatal-creek-accident-article-1.1746639

It's a soap opera that has chosen to use a fire house rather than a hospital as the setting for the story. Personally I prefer sports and documentary type programming (A&E, National Geo, C&I, etc.). But everybody has their own taste...

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Last-Resort-Fire-Department-Needs-Rescued-248665851.html?tab=video&c=y

1 year old Pierce aerial loses wheel while responding: http://www.kgw.com/news/Wheel-falls-of-engine-responding-to-Portland-fire-247674131.html

As far as I know, the YFD has an excellent average response time, so unless there was a delayed alarm to the F.D. for some reason, it's highly unlikely that any non F.D. personnel were subjected to rapidly deteriorating conditions while pushing themselves beyond the abilities of mortal men as they should only have been on the scene for a few minutes prior to F.D. arrival.... BTW, I too am pleased that the PO's weren't seriously injured.

"Everyone left the three buildings safely, McCormack said. But, (the 2 police officers) were both injured. Both had to be taken to a local hospital for treatment for smoke inhallation also. None of the occupants of the building or the pets was injured, Sherwin said." One would think that if the PO's suffered smoke inhalation, the people who they reportedly removed from the burning house certainly would have been subjected to the smoke for a much longer period of time than the PO's yet none of the civilians required treatment.

I strongly advocate that communities start putting the same price (or higher) on human life that they put on education, road repair, trash pick up, elected community leadership, librarys, law enforcement, etc.. I'd much rather see a county wide career fire, rescue, EMS system (supplimented by volunteers if available) rather than individual volunteer departments with the ever present (potentially life threatening) issue of inability to respond promptly (or at alll) depending upon time of day, day of week, type of call, etc..

I agree, I worked for a Pierce dealership for several years. It wasn't uncommon to see new rigs being sent back multiple times by the departments that purchased them due to problems that needed to be corrected (some were major problems). Although many in the fire service consider Pierce to be head and tails above the rest it's not the case, no manufacturer of fire apparatus is problem free.