JunebugKFD257

Acceptable, NO.  Unfortunate reality for many, YES.
 
Yes, but I bet that a 2 man crew arriving quickly, followed by an additional 2 man crew (or more) a couple of minutes after also outperformed a single 2 man crew and probably did at least as well as that 4 man crew arriving together minutes later.

 
AS one of the airport guys, I'll answer this one for you.  They were at the drill today (E62, L32, R40, and I believe 2393).  Under the previous circumstances Engine 58 would not respond to the airport for alerts (as far as I have noticed).  However, E59 would respond while it was on duty for Rye Brook at night (RB would respond with E14 while they're on duty).  And, quite honestly, there is no effect on the response for the airport with situation at hand here.  Between all of the other agencies involved within our emergency response plan (ERP) we have fair coverage for the majority of our aircraft alerts.  But here's why  the lack of an engine wouldn't hurt the airport:  WE NEED MANPOWER!  Under our ERP we require any piece of apparatus to come out to the airfield with a FULL crew.  That means if 3 engines show up with 2 firefighters each, we want you to abandon two engines to staff one.  In essence, we really don't care how many pieces of fire apparatus show up, we need manpower, tools, and a buttload of ambulances!
 
As far as this situation with the paid firefighters in PC being "laid off,"  the Local at the airport supports their efforts to regain their jobs (and as the Representative I can assure that we do have our brothers and sisters in our thoughts and prayers, and hope for the best of this situation).

I've been a volunteer and career firefighter too. I often work along side of volunteers. I agree that we should be more united and respectful than we are.
From my experience and perspective, the volunteers oftentimes are more of an obstacle in getting to that place than the career folks. I often hear claims about how we're all doing the same job, have the same training, etc., but the fact is we aren't and we don't. Unfortunately, when you try to discuss this, the only thing too many on the volunteer side seem to take from it is that career guys are great and volunteers suck rather than understanding that career guys can be "better" by virtue of those differences in training and experience, but that doesn't mean that the volunteers are automatically inadequate. It's a lot like comparing pro athletes to college/high school athletes. The pros are typically better, which one would expect, but a lot of the non-pro athletes are pretty darn good, if not just as good in some cases. And in some cases, their best just isn't good enough.
We hear claims about how fires don't care if you're career or volunteer or that the person who's house is on fire doesn't care if you're career or volunteer, but who yells the most about training mandates or being held to any sort of standard? Who thinks it's perfectly ok to give a person a few dozen hours of basic introductory training (or none at all) and then turn that new person loose to respond and actively participate on calls? Who thinks it's appropriate to make a teenager with little actual experience a line officer?
IMO, these are the things that are at the very heart of the animosity between career and volunteer from the career side. Too many in the volunteer ranks want to be viewed as equal to the career guys without putting in the work necessary to truly be equal. Yes, there are places where truly providing services on the same level are not realistic (rural areas for one) and they do the best they can under tough circumstances, but there are others where the departments are just not being honest with themselves or their communities regarding the level of service they can realistically provide as a department or as an individual.
It's also frustrating to see comments about how career guys only care about the paycheck and don't have the pride in the job because we don't work fundraisers to pay the bills or in some cases don't live in the community that we work in. While there are career guys that are like that, the majority aren't and you'll find people like that in any career and you know there are plenty of volunteers that are all about the t-shirts and image rather than the work and service to the community.
Like you said, career and volunteer share a lot in common.
Personally, I try to be respectful of the volunteers in my area, but it's very hard at times to view some of them as peers when they do some of the stuff that they do and that includes burning down buildings that should not have burned to the extent that they did.

At risk of unintentionally insulting volunteers, I might ask if the FASNY study took into account how much money would be saved in property/insurance losses if a paid staffed FD was there to effect more positive outcomes sooner? Not a knock on the potential quality of work that a VFD can accomplish, but a realistic view of how much different a fire looks at minute 4 vs. minute 12. Take the same firefighters put them in the station when the call comes in nearly every time, and see how that affects the outcomes.

City of Kingston, New York announces Civil Service exam for Fire Fighter. Examination will be March 19, 2016.
Applications must be received in the Civil Service Office no later than 4:00 pm, on February 12, 2016. No exceptions.
Anything received in the mail, after that date, will not be accepted.
Office of Civil Service is located in City Hall, 420 Broadway, Kingston, NY 12401. Telephone is (845) 331-0080, Ext. 3921.
You can also visit Kingston's website at: www.kingston-ny.gov
I attached links and files to get the announcement and applications.
The announcement is here: http://www.kingston-ny.gov/filestorage/8399/8469/8539/Fire_Fighter_65138_2016.pdf
The application is here: http://www.kingston-ny.gov/filestorage/8463/8511/8630/8632/APPLICATION_FOR_EMPLOYMENT.pdf
APPLICATION_FOR_EMPLOYMENT.pdf
Fire_Fighter_65138_2016.pdf

City of Kingston, New York announces Civil Service exam for Fire Fighter. Examination will be March 19, 2016.
Applications must be received in the Civil Service Office no later than 4:00 pm, on February 12, 2016. No exceptions.
Anything received in the mail, after that date, will not be accepted.
Office of Civil Service is located in City Hall, 420 Broadway, Kingston, NY 12401. Telephone is (845) 331-0080, Ext. 3921.
You can also visit Kingston's website at: www.kingston-ny.gov
I attached links and files to get the announcement and applications.
The announcement is here: http://www.kingston-ny.gov/filestorage/8399/8469/8539/Fire_Fighter_65138_2016.pdf
The application is here: http://www.kingston-ny.gov/filestorage/8463/8511/8630/8632/APPLICATION_FOR_EMPLOYMENT.pdf
APPLICATION_FOR_EMPLOYMENT.pdf
Fire_Fighter_65138_2016.pdf

Before you knock the unions ( who keep pushing for increased training and manpower) about blocking Home Rule why not lobby for one standard for all firefighters in the state, paid or volunteer. That would include new firefighters, in service training for all firefighters, response times, manning on apparatus, promoting officers on qualifications not on election results. Not to mention mandatory retirement age so we don't have a rig responding with 3 or4 70 year old men on it with a 19 year old lieutenant because that was all that was around.

Don't you mean FASNY, which lobbies against same standards of training for professional career staffing, and volunteer members? If I was a betting man, which I've been known to be, I'd place my money on the non-uniformed training standards of volunteers, vs known and required training of career firefighters as the reason for not being called into Mt. Vernon and a majority of other career/combo departments.Why would I roll the dice with the qualifications of those coming in, vs knowing when I call for an engine, I'm gonna get exactly what I asked for in terms of manning and qualifications?

OK folks. Here's the deal:
The following link will get you about 95% of the information you need to know about the exam. You only need to focus on Entry Level Firefighter and/or Fire Protection Specialist, which is a state job. Anything pertaining to Fire Officers is not your concern.
The link is: http://nysfireinfo.pbworks.com/w/page/27327765/Civil%20Service%20and%20Natl%20Cert%20Exam%20Study
Entry Level Firefighter: http://www.cs.ny.gov/jobseeker/local/test_guides/fire_test_guide_01_09_06.pdf
Now that you read the information:
1) Download or print the PDFs that have study guides included. Use them. Study them. Look a bit outdated? Yes, but then again, so is the test. Study some more.
2) RESEARCH, RESEARCH, RESEARCH!!!!!!! Read the residency requirements. Do you qualify for residency? If yes, you will get preference over non-residents. If not, you are just taking the test for practice.
3) MAIL THE APPLICATION ON TIME!!!! SUBMIT A CHECK OR MONEY ORDER!!!!! DO IT BEFORE THE DEADLINE!!! DON'T WAIT UNTIL THE LAST MINUTE!!!!!!
You may qualify for more than one offering, so you follow the instructions on cross-filing. You'll pay a bit more, but your net is cast farther out.
4) TAKE MARCH 19th OFF! HELL, TAKE THE 18th OFF TOO! If you work overnights, you want to be fresh for the test! Don't wait until the last minute to take time off.
5) Be on time, bring plenty of pencils, a pen, something quiet to eat/drink.
Waiting game is months. Until then, get in or stay in shape. Drive carefully, stay out of trouble with the police. Look at your facebook or twitter pages. Anything that is sexist, racist, homophobic or would be offensive to others should be removed. The interview panel can use those things against you. All it takes is a screenshot, even if your pages is locked tighter than Fort Knox. You are trying to get a job that protects EVERYONE who works, lives, visits and travels in that municipality.

OK folks. Here's the deal:
The following link will get you about 95% of the information you need to know about the exam. You only need to focus on Entry Level Firefighter and/or Fire Protection Specialist, which is a state job. Anything pertaining to Fire Officers is not your concern.
The link is: http://nysfireinfo.pbworks.com/w/page/27327765/Civil%20Service%20and%20Natl%20Cert%20Exam%20Study
Entry Level Firefighter: http://www.cs.ny.gov/jobseeker/local/test_guides/fire_test_guide_01_09_06.pdf
Now that you read the information:
1) Download or print the PDFs that have study guides included. Use them. Study them. Look a bit outdated? Yes, but then again, so is the test. Study some more.
2) RESEARCH, RESEARCH, RESEARCH!!!!!!! Read the residency requirements. Do you qualify for residency? If yes, you will get preference over non-residents. If not, you are just taking the test for practice.
3) MAIL THE APPLICATION ON TIME!!!! SUBMIT A CHECK OR MONEY ORDER!!!!! DO IT BEFORE THE DEADLINE!!! DON'T WAIT UNTIL THE LAST MINUTE!!!!!!
You may qualify for more than one offering, so you follow the instructions on cross-filing. You'll pay a bit more, but your net is cast farther out.
4) TAKE MARCH 19th OFF! HELL, TAKE THE 18th OFF TOO! If you work overnights, you want to be fresh for the test! Don't wait until the last minute to take time off.
5) Be on time, bring plenty of pencils, a pen, something quiet to eat/drink.
Waiting game is months. Until then, get in or stay in shape. Drive carefully, stay out of trouble with the police. Look at your facebook or twitter pages. Anything that is sexist, racist, homophobic or would be offensive to others should be removed. The interview panel can use those things against you. All it takes is a screenshot, even if your pages is locked tighter than Fort Knox. You are trying to get a job that protects EVERYONE who works, lives, visits and travels in that municipality.

guys, its very simple.
every municipality that needs to give an exam "orders" a test from the state. Usually every March, there are tests given throughout the state.
This past March, Westchester county, New Rochelle, Troy.....etc all gave exams.
This is not an umbrella exam, the original poster is simply advising that whatever municipality that plans on giving an exam in 2016 will be having the exam on March 19th
Check the normal places you would check to find out about exam announcments.

For those municipalities that have ordered a new exam for 2016, the exam should be held on March 19, 2016.
Start studying now.

For those municipalities that have ordered a new exam for 2016, the exam should be held on March 19, 2016.
Start studying now.

So lets play devils advocate:
I pay taxes to support my local FD, why should someone who pays nothing to support my protection have the same opportunity? Would that be fair?

But, you have NO opportunity if you don't take the test...

Granted $100 is a little bit of money for an exam fee, the amount is infinitesimal in the greater scheme of a possible multi-million dollar career. People whose dream is to be a firefighter will take the exam no matter what the fee is and that's who we want for the job. Where there's a will, there's a way!
If a billionaire lost his eye sight tomorrow how much do you think he'd pay to get it back???

A major part of what we do is code enforcement.
Every day we spend hours inspecting properties, educating the property owners and enforcing the NYS UFP&BC. This also leads us to having CIDS info for many occupancies. In my department that's over 12,000 man hours per year. As part of code enforcement we also do plan review, oil burner and oil tank instillation/removal inspections. This also means regular code training and building construction training re-inspections and occasionally going to court to enforce the code.
How important is this? 31 years ago this week 5 Buffalo FD members were killed in an illegal propane tank explosion. Proper code enforcement prevents tragidies like this.
EMS is another major component, which results in 50% of the service we provide and again adds training and in-service continuous training. A shoot of from this is we do a fair number of assistance calls where we generally are checking out then picking up the "I've fallen and cant get up" citizens. This leads to another program, the "Patient Assist Assessment" program which is a referral system where we evaluate elderly and other at risk residence and get them assistance such as home healthcare, special home equipment, and facility placement when needed.
Fire training as you say, but we also have to maintain full Hazmat/WMD tech training and Technical Rescue (rope, confined space, trench, collapse and water). This training is done both in house and with WSOTF (and 2x year with FDNY)
Also because of our call volume, our equipment and maintenance needs are much higher, so a good deal of time is taken up with this as well.
Their are other smaller items, but this is a major part of the difference

Correct you are.

As a fire instructor I had to again notice the push back from the chief who stated he only had to take a 60 hr course, and now it is 112 hrs. "Who wants to drive 2x a week to Carmel". It is thinking like that NY State is on the lower
end of FF-1 course hours. And that always leads to the Career vs Volunteer debate. The last class of recruits traveled 5x a week, 8 hrs a day, for 16 weeks. That is 640 Hrs. With the constant threat of failing out due to poor grades, or not being able to pass CPAT. 19 out of 20 that started finished. It isn't a game, it isn't about how many members your
dept has, it is about giving the customer the service that is expected from a group of people that raised their right hand a swore to protect to the best of their ability the life and property of the residents of their community. If we do nothing the fire will still go out. The ends don't justify the means. TRAINING TRAINING TRAINING AND DEDICATED MEMBERS.

Bring your wallet if you want things. And knock with your elbows.

I can just imagine how many people are wondering what the hell knock with your elbows mean lol

FLIP's is required by state law for all career members on their 1st promotion.
FLIP's does not teach you how to handle calls (since FDNY handles calls very different from say Pelham), you need to know that to score well to get promoted.

Not to start a fight, I train as many vol ff's as I do career, BUT these statements by you fellows are why the career side pushes so hard for equality in training, to call yourself a firefighter, officer or chief. Look whats happening, A officer wants to change things for the better, and he is voted out. The fire service is in a lot of trouble, it is time to wake up.

I might be biased because I got the job, but I don't see anything wrong with the system as it is. If you want to be a Firefighter, then you should have a "whatever it takes" attitude to get on.

I might be biased because I got the job, but I don't see anything wrong with the system as it is. If you want to be a Firefighter, then you should have a "whatever it takes" attitude to get on.