unleashedff248

There's far more than meets the eye on this. You want to figure out why there's manpower issues look to the district. The Chiefs are doing the best they can with what they're given. They're all dedicated and competent individuals with many years of experience. To some degree. There are still many active and dedicated individuals who keep the department running, though some indeed fit your description. From what I understand the situation is being misrepresented in the media. It is not that bad that the State would intervene. There are still many experienced and active members in the department. However due to political issues some members avoid taking leadership positions. Something does need to be done about the infighting and ingroup/outgroup BS going on though. An aligned and cooperative District and Chief's Office/Department would be a great start. Hopefully something can be done soon.

I'm going to stay out of this after this last comment... But I really believe that there's a lot of people here making assumptions about current conditions in Somers based on little to no facts. Fact is, the manpower report has NOT been released. Fact is, I haven't seen any reliable stats about manpower or response times in this thread. I'm not trying to say it's a bad idea to research this option. It's not. But I can't agree with the member who started this all. That's his subjective opinion. I also don't believe this is the opinion of any other members. If we analyze our last 5 structure fires, all have been responded to and extinguished quickly and without extension past the origin. I think we all need some facts before we go and assume things about the situation in Somers. That's all. And realize as I said before that effective leaders can motivate people to come out and help out. Eventually, hiring career firefighters will be the way to go in Somers and many other communities. The question is when this needs to happen. Currently, that is exactly what Somers is looking into.

From what I have heard the latest ISO for Somers is a 5/9. Large portions of this town are without positive water sources. From what I understand (and it could be wrong) the ISO for these portions can never increase beyond a 9 unless water sources are installed. My subjective and humble opinion: We've been doing better lately. Remember: Having motivating and competent leadership is almost as important as having the manpower. Leaders can inspire people to get out and go on calls. Despite this, I don't think it's terrible idea to look into these services right now. But I do believe there may be lower cost alternatives which accomplish similar goals but save taxpayer money. I'm not sure about NYS law, but what about a pay-per-call or paid-on-call program? I know a lot of departments use this to motivate people and offset costs for their personnel. Can anyone comment on this?

I believe sometimes it works this way. Other times it goes straight from TMC to Somers. Somers then notifies 60 for a medic.

Just to be fair... Another candidate's site: http://www.vote4arena1214.com I don't believe the third candidate has a site. I can't comment on any claims made on either site nor do I endorse any candidate. Simply posting FYI.

+1. What's up with that? I've never ever seen that done before. Brush fires are bad enough in structural gear, but with a pak on too... I see this thread going off-topic very soon...

It's amazing what kind of c**p is in people's heads these days. I know so many people in their 20's that think because they watch CSI or Law and Order it makes them an expert in law. I do know someone who refused the breath and blood test because "it was his right." Not only did he have to pay the fine and got his lic. revoked, but he also was convicted of DWI, leaving the scene of an auto accident with PI, and resisting arrest with violence on the video and testimonial evidence alone. He will never drive again. (Left the scene of a motor vehicle accident which resulted in personal injury and that he caused while DWI - bad combination.) It's not worth taking the chance. Lately, most employers are taking DWI convictions very seriously, especially public safety agencies. This includes volunteer agencies. I know some departments which will never let you drive with a DWI conviction and may even kick you out or suspend you. On top of this, a DWI will cost you in excess of $10,000. Insurance becomes extremely expensive. Some insurers won't even cover you any more. With that being said, I believe professional courtesy should be revoked for possible DWI's and people should face the consequences. The risk of having impaired drivers on the road is too great to fool around with letting them go (in my opinion). I would never forgive a friend who killed someone because he was drunk. Never. And I would never forgive myself for letting them do it.

This push to 800mHz scares me. The reason everything was low band "back in the day" is because it's propagation around hills, obstructions, and through buildings is excellent. In Westchester we used a simplex system for countywide comms. Of course, there were a number of towers and some dead spots, but overall the operation of the radios worked excellent. Now, as you move up the frequency band, generally building and obstacle penetration degrades. However, by adding towers and repeater sites you can fix this. For example, the Massachusetts Statewide 800mHz Motorola SmartZone system achieves excellent mobile and portable coverage. Now, that's not to say that there aren't some dead spots (especially out west, where they still use low band as a secondary), but mobile coverage can be expected at or around 97%. Portable coverage is slightly less. Conventional systems on 800mHz generally aren't popular, hence the issue with parts and equipment. Another issue becomes interference. The 800mHz band is very crowded due to the explosion of cell phone popularity. Nextel is the worst offender. Some of their sites have been found to be so out of "tune" that they were transmitting over public safety systems. Other issues arise just simply from proximity to the tower. Go near a nextel tower with a MSP radio and you'll watch your signal drop to zero. Now, I don't know if this is affecting things in Shelton, but I know it is in Massachusetts. The FCC and Nextel have come to a preliminary resolution called rebanding, which will help eliminate the interference but will also require reprogramming of systems and relicensure of both public safety and cell phone 800mHz systems. From what I've seen and my knowledge of radio systems, they should keep the 800 frequency, license some more (2-3), and make a small SmartZone trunked system. Now, this may exceed the $600,000 budget depending on the size of the area and other logistics. I'm not sure about pricing. However, Stamford (EDACS) and Greenwich (SmartZone) have these systems and make them work. Who knows, maybe they could get on the state police system? I know Massachusetts has allowed other agencies on theirs.

I figured I'd start posting some new talkgroups I head on the system while in ID Search mode. Got three so far: 17648: No voice heard, but falls in the Fire/EMS talkgroup numbers 50487: Seems to be transit...annoying 7: I have no idea Anyone else got some?

An interesting tidbit on Yorktown... Under license WPUW501, 453.3250mHz was allocated at 100 watts of output power for use by the YHFD by the FCC. The license is effective 2/09/05 until 5/16/2012. Could this be the conventional simulcast of Fire 17? I'll have to take a listen. Anyone from Y-Town with info?

Not exactly true. If the talkgroup is 1 higher than the desired talkgroup (ex: 33553 instead of 33552), it is because a dispatcher has selected the all talkgroup (ATG) mode. All radios are programmed with an ATG talkgroup. When an ATG is selected, all radios who have that talkgroup as their ATG automatically tune to that talkgroup while the dispatcher is transmitting. This is used for broadcasts from dispatch for all the units. Our ATG is 1616 in decimal or 065 in hex. It is not selectable on the radio the way it is programmed. I have my personal radio programmed with it in and during active incidents, this talkgroup will have all comms for that incident on it. If the reported talkgroup is 2 higher than the desired talkgroup (ex: 34002 instead of 34000), it is because a user has pushed the emergency button on the radio. If this button is pressed, a voice channel is allocated exclusively for the talkgroup that the radio is currently tuned to with an offset of 2. If the reported talkgroup is 3 higher than the desired talkgroup (ex: 34003 instead of 34000), it is because a dispatcher has patched two or more talkgroups together. Users on any of the patched talkgroups may talk to each other during the duration of the patch. If the reported talkgroup is 8 or more higher than the desired talkgroup (ex: 34352 instead of 35344), you probably are also hearing noise, as this is an indication that you are listening to a digital talkgroup. The Westchester County system has no digital (P25) talkgroups as far as I know, although our radios ARE digital capable. With that in mind, here's some more: 50800: 49751: ATG? 50418: 50544: 50400: 50423: Heard Liberty Control answering units 49776: 50036: 50384: 52728: 52976: 50426: 54128: Traffic reports from "Liberty Control" 52080: Seems most of the unknown TG's fall within the transit scheme. Some of these I heard myself, other were just recorded by a software program, including the previously mentioned TG of 7. This was when the system first came online and before any radios were even installed on the system. I'd imagine it's just a test talkgroup or something. I'd be interested to see more fire/ems talkgroups come online, such as a Admin talkgroup for county coordinators/cars or even a radio tech talkgroup, which probably already exists somewhere.

Date: 2/25/08 Time: unknown TOD, 3rd: 21:15, 4th: 22:24 (times approx.) Location: 40 Karen Drive Frequency: 46.16 (Dispatch) Units Operating: Pocatello FD, numerous Mutual Aid Description Of Incident: 4th Alarm working fire with firefighters down. Command reports 2 firefighters trapped in well-involved dwelling. Requesting EMS, additional FAST team, additional manpower to the scene ASAP. Writer: Unleashedff248

I've seen that Hummer around before...believe it or not they put it in most if not all the parades they go to. If I can remember correctly it has a full size Edge lightbar with a number of secondary warning LED's. I never knew about the jaws and stuff though...seems to me like a huge legal issue. I know nobody in Somers would EVER be allowed to do something like that to their car. Personally, if I were chief, I'd flip. I wonder what the department's insurance company thinks about the jaws set-up. Or I wonder if they know.

The M/A Com system is a OpenSky 800mhz system. They were reportedly the lowest bidder on the project, with Motorola being considerably pricier. We all know that Motorola systems are reliable and work well, not to mention they're used all over the county. CT and MA use Motorola Smartzone systems for their State Police Net that work very well. Our new trunked system in Westchester is a Motorola Smartzone. Apparently M/A Com attempted to install a similar system in PA. The system was a complete and utter failure. I'm not sure if the system was rejected or not, but I read multiple articles that stated it was basically inoperable and often failed. The best part of all of this: M/A Com's price has come close to Motorola's bid right now after numerous "problems" and additions. Motorola wanted around $3B to complete the project. And probably would have built a working system. I'd pay a bit more in taxes to cover the extra. Doing the math every citizen in NY would have to give $54 extra to pay for the difference completely...and instantly. M/A Com's system will be paid for over 20 years. The worst part is, even if the system doesn't work I have no doubt in my mind that the NY State Office for Technology will accept the system. And it'll probably end up costing over $3B. I wouldn't be surprised. And as for interstate communications...PA is the only state bordering NY that operates a OpenSky system. Granting others access to our system will be nonexistent since M/A Com has not licensed their protocol to anyone else. And nobody uses M/A Com OpenSky capable radios. Bad move New York.

Something's gotta give here. Even if a police officer was posted inside the building, the perp still would have gotten a good number of shots off by the time it was reported and responded to. Short of arming every teacher and setting up metal detectors at every door, what are our viable options? It makes me sick to hear about these shootings over and over again.

The trunked system to my knowledge so far has been a success. There are a few issues out there right now, namely; 1) Misunderstanding - trunking is very, very difficult to understand for the 'average joe.' We need to get people out of the "I push the button and talk" mindset. A radio is another tool for firefighting/EMS just like a halligan, axe, or saw. It needs to be understood and practiced with. 2) Inaccessibility - Many members of FD's have legitimate reasons to transmit and receive on the system -- and they can't. With the accountability of the system and ability to 'turn off' rogue or otherwise misused radios, we should be able to use the system more extensively then 46.26. This is not the case. Trunking scanners are expensive and are just another thing to lug around. More portables should be allotted to the FD's for use and members should be able to purchase personal radios and be assigned ID's, even if it's just for receiving and not transmitting, which can be easily controlled. 3) The radios don't scan - This drives me nuts. Sometimes it's important to listen to more than one talkgroup. Why aren't the radios programmed to do this? A trunking system, when used correctly, is a wonderful tool. Every user has a unique ID. 60-Control can see if you radio is on, check the status of your radio, and even stun (temporarily turn off) or kill (permanently turn off until repaired by Motorola) your radio. Messages can be sent over the system, including text messages just like a regular cell phone. Talkgroups can be patched, moved, simulcasted, and reassigned with ease. Say you're rig radio is on Fire 13, but you need to be on Fire 16. The operator of the radio hasn't been trained and can't change the talkgroup. 60-Control can actually steer your radio to turn to that talkgroup from the console. Emergency buttons now have functionality, as 60-Control is immediately notified of the activation and can see exactly which unit is transmitting the emergency. How many times has 46.26 been tied up by a open mic transmitting over one of the powerful cross-band repeaters? I remember Croton Falls had a structure fire one day, and someone's portable was transmitting over a cross-band repeater. 46.26 was down over the entire north end of the county -- big problem. With the trunked system that would no longer be an issue. Also, I can't even remember how many times I've heard people tapping into mics, playing music over the radio, or otherwise being inappropriate on 46.26. With the individual ID's of the trunked system the user could be identified and stopped. More training has to be done and users of the system have to be trained correctly. From what I hear on the system it is not overtaxed. And priority can be granted to Fire/EMS users over the buses. However, adding one or two more voice channels to each zone could not hurt. The system is still in it's beginning stages and as with everything, the kinks must be worked out over time.

The 630 must have a dual-band firmware chip installed I believe, part numbers: 27C256Q-JPYJ FAB DUAL BAND RADIO 1 EPROM TK-630 TK-730 TK-830 $39.45 27C256Q-JPZJ FAC DUAL BAND RADIO 2 EPROM TK-630 TK-730 TK-830 $39.45 It's dependent on which radio is radio 1 or radio 2. If you have a FAA firmware chip: 27C256Q-JPWJ FAA SINGLE BAND EPROM TK-630 TK-730 TK-830, the radio will not work with the dual band setup. FAD EPROM is used for dual-head single radio applications. If you need any help I have the service manual for the 730H. That's where I'm getting this from. I recommend you buy it, there's a lot of good info in it. W7FG Manuals has a ton of good ones at a great price. -dave

There's no way to have a sidetone unless you add a pre-keyup signaling option. In the CDM-1550 (which I think you're talking about) the only way to do this is to enable MDC or DTMF signaling. If you have a HT-1000 I can tell you how to enable a short pre-keyup sidetone. Otherwise, I'm afraid you're out of luck.

Yes we did! We recieved a B.R.A.T. brush truck tonight and officially took delivery. I don't believe it's in quarters yet, but I'll get you pics ASAP when it is. If you want to see it let me know and we'll set something up. I'll post some more info when I get it (I've been away all day). -Dave aka 'Pockets'

At the Somers working fire yesterday (3/7), I came to experience first hand SCBA's failing due to icing. My pack and the packs of other firefighters were completely frozen due to getting wet from water spray. The bottle turn on knobs were frozen in place (either on or off depending) and the masks themselves were useless. Straps turned into hard, unadjustable pieces of nomex. The masks wouldn't even get on your head no matter how hard you tried. Facepieces couldn't even be seen out of. The regulators themselves were also frozen and the purge knobs were stuck in place. The internals of the regulator facepiece were also frozen causing no air to come out of the pack when inhaling. The worst was that the pass alarms were completely frozen over. The buttons wouldn't press in. We use a combination of Scott 4.5'S and 50's with AV-2000 masks. The 4.5's are being phased out. Radios also stopped functioning due to the speaker mics becoming all frozen over. We use Motorola HT-1000's. The speaker mics themselves are very rugged and waterproof, but were no match for ice. Does anyone have any suggestions on how these problems can be avoided besides warming the packs? Mine took over 20 minutes to defrost, and then became frozen over almost immediately once stepping outside. I can't think of anything off the top of my head to fix this. Anyone with more experience have any suggestions/experiences/stories?

Pound Ridge's 33.96 repeater is up and running on 453.350 rx DPL 664N and tx 458.350 DPL 664N. I get it in all of northern Westchester county, but down around Valhalla I lose it. It transmits and receives fine from the northern parts.

As a member of both career and volunteer departments, I feel that the largest conflicts come in the way of training and experience. The career firefighters I know that I have talked to about this topic have the general opinion that volunteers are less trained and less experienced. Again, these are just the people I've talked to. I cannot comment about everyone. When I first joined my career department, I was regarded by most of the firefighters as a 'wanna-be' volunteer (maybe because of my age?) working as a part-time paid firefighter. However, I was never mistreated, and even better, most firefighters took me in and taught me things. While we were out running calls, I proved myself to them and didn't step out of line. This is very important. Prove yourself, and the volunteer/career gap lessens. As for combo departments, I know there are a lot more issues besides inexperience. I can't comment on this because I have no first-hand experience. As far as my experience goes, I've never have been put down as a volunteer by a paid guy. I'm young, and I don't have much experience but this is all I can say. It does upset me to hear that some people are prejudiced against volunteers, and it seems that there may be no changing them. All I know is that I'll keep proving myself as a volunteer and paid firefighter, and ignore any ignorant comments that I may hear about vollies.

They are great people and do great work. I hear from one of their former employees that they have an excellent relationship with the NYSP, especially on the Thruway. They take a lot risk out there from motorists. The ex-employee that I know had someone slam into the back of his truck on 684 one night while helping a motorist. I see them a lot on 684 shutting down a lane while NYSP is doing a traffic stop. I think that's great. I hope a lot of you have had positive experiences with them. As for the red lights, as long as they don't abuse them, I'm all for it. As stated before, this is not the first time it's been done and it's been implemented successfully elsewhere. However, I believe the lights should be used under two conditions. 1) Not while responding to a breakdown/accident/etc. where there is free flowing traffic and 2) only in conjunction with a siren. You cannot use red lights without a siren. It a safety risk. That goes for everyone that responds with red lights! USE THAT SIREN! Here's a great article that everyone should read Use That Siren! Sure you may wake up the neighborhood, but you need to remember that sirens protect you, your fellow workers, and all persons sharing the road. Here in Massachusetts, we never turn off the siren until we get on scene. If we do, we get yelled at. But anyway, that's another topic for another day. Point of the story: BE SAFE OUT THERE!!!

Here in MA the Mass Highway trucks use Amber and Clear LED lightbars. I'm not sure about the V&T laws. I've never seen anyone pull over for them.

Thanks so much for all you do Seth. We all appreciate it. When I found out you had closed, I was really amazed. I know you love this board almost as much as I do, and I've known you since you started it. You're not one to let a few hecklers ruin all this work. I've learned an insurmountable amount of information from this board, and not just what happened in westchester today. Hopefully one day some of that information will save my life. This board is great. Don't let anyone convince you otherwise. We all have bad days, so nobody holds it against you, but I'm glad it's back. I actually looked into starting a board similar to this and realized the cost you absorb every month. It's amazing you're not in debt. We love you, we love the board, and that's not gonna change. I've been refreshing the site every 5 minutes since it got shut down and working on an email to you, as have been many of the people I know that use the board. And remember, for every jerk that hassles you over this board there are 100 other people that love it. Unfortunetly, you don't hear from them quite like you do from the people who only have bad things to say. KUDOS TO YOU! Thank you so much for everything you do, your countless time and dedication to this board is a wonderful thing. -Dave Somers VFD