JJB531

I'm assuming Goose is referring to the number of unnecessary casualties because of the inability of the EMS system in Westchester County to properly and adequately respond to a "larger scale" disaster or mass casualty incident. EMS in Westchester County is a disaster in itself. Personally, I don't think it has anything to do with volunteer or paid services, but rather the system as a whole. First problem is an overall lack of coordination. With all of the different agencies out there, all of the different Captains and Chiefs, all the different dispatching agencies, and all of the different unit designations that don't follow the County's designation system, in the event of a larger scale disaster, coordinating a multi-agency response would prove to be rather difficult. 60 Control has manpower to handle their current workload (or at least I guess they're supposed to!). If more agencies became a part of the 60 Control dispatching system, 60 Control would have to hire more dispatchers to handle the increased workload. With their current manpower and technology, can 60 Control handle the increased workload if there is now a significant county-wide disaster where they are attempting to coordinate a number of agencies, especially agencies that do not utilize 60 Control as a dispatching resource? I think the second problem is a lack of training and education. This is a problem that doesn't just fall on the County or any of the County agencies, but it also falls on the EMS providers. I think it's great that everyone goes through NIMS compliance training, but how many EMS providers are truly confident with responding to an MCI in terms of establishing sectors and following the standards for MCI response? In the event of a disaster, how many EMS responders are properly trained or equipped (even in terms of basic personal protective equipment) to handle treating patients in an austere environment, whether it be a collapse or confined space environment, operating in the warm zone of a hazardous materials environment, or operating within the warm zone of a tactical environment in the event of an active shooter scenario? A lot of of this training is not readily available to EMS providers. The OFPC won't allow you to take a Rescue Tech-Basic course or a number of other courses they offer unless you have completed basic firefighter training. So what's the alternative, pay hundreds of dollars out of your own pocket to recieve this training through private training organizations? And then when this training does become available, how many EMS providers will actually take advantage of the opportunity? I know myself along with a handful of other providers will, but unfortunately the majority won't. So now what happens when that large scale disaster happens, everyone is out there doing their own thing, and then someone gets hurt because they didn't have the proper training or equipment? Now those untrained providers are becoming more of a hinderance then a help. The County handed out these Level B hazmat packs a few years ago, I believe 10 or so to each agency. Has anyone ever looked inside of them? How many EMS providers know how to properly don and doff the equipment in those packs? When was the last time anyone checked the filters for expiration dates or damage to the foil packaging they come in to ensure that they are still in good working condition? How many agencies have trained with the equipment? The County went out and purchased and equipped MCI trailers. Does anyone know what's inside of them? What are the capabilities of the equipment inside of them? Who is responsible for ensuring that these trailers make it to where they get to get to in the event of a disaster? This is the kind of half-a** provisions that the County makes for its EMS providers. But what else can they do? They have no real authority when it comes to EMS. As long as EMS providers go to a bunch of CME's and pointless call audits, it's all good, we're doing a good job. Let's go celebrate at Playland everyone! In the event of a large scale disaster, we can really only count on active EMS units that are currently in service to respond. I'm confident that a number of volunteer agencies will staff their ambulances and be ready to respond, but we can't count on every agency having the appropriate manpower to staff EMS units. Commercial providers will more then likely pull transport units to provide extra assistance as well, in addition to mutual aid units from outside counties as well (Rockland, Putnam, etc.).

If someone wants to report a past crime (one that is not in progress or one where the perpetrator is not on scene) or a petit larceny or another "non-index" crime that does not fall within the 7 major crimes (Felony assault, Burglary, Robbery, Grand Larceny, Grand Larceny Auto, Homicide, and Rape), there really is no reason why an individual can't head down to the local precinct and file a complaint. It's ridiculous to waste a patrol officers time taking a report for a harrassment complaint that occurred a week ago when the complainant can file the report at the local precinct. I understand police services are all about serving the public and blah, blah, blah because the publics taxes pay our salaries blah, blah, blah... but when you have patrol officers tied up taking reports for minor offenses and offenses that are not even investigated after the initial report is filed, it takes away from that officers ability to focus their attention on more significant matters while out on patrol.

It's not a matter of it being "so important to some people", but more an issue of discussing how agencies are dealing with staffing troubles. Nobody has bashed PVAC, and your response brought up some positive points, such as the sharing of resources. In this case, manpower through your agreement with Hawthorne FD. I think that's a positive idea that other agencies might possibly be able to look into implementing within their own systems. The thread became an inquest of PVAC because PVAC was the agency that was brought up by one of its own members, hence the reason PVAC became the topic of discussion. Don't take it personal...

I'm going to pose this question again, only because it wasn't answered the first time. If PVAC only requested mutual aid a maximum of 10 times last year, how come you stated the agency was looking into per-diem EMT's to cover calls just 5 months ago?

iWho is bashing PVAC? Who said PVAC doesn't do a good job? Who said PVAC doesn't get their ambulances out of the door? I would like to know where in this thread anyone bashed PVAC? Once again, legitimate statements made about problems inherent with volunteer systems automatically means the agency is being bashed. It's unbelieveable. FYI I was in the first group of medics to work the Mt. Pleasant system when ALS was introduced into the town. There were plenty of occasions where we'd go through 3 agencies down the mutual aid list before an ambulance would respond within town.

In the line of work we're in time and experience is not enough to earn respect. I don't want to be respected just because I've been a provider for 20+ years... I'd want to be respected because I am a competent provider, not because of the amount of time that I have in the field. I've met plenty of 20+ year EMT's who I don't even trust to take a simple blood pressure, and I've met some EMT's whose ink on their cards is still wet, but I trust them and their skills enough to take a blood pressure or to set up an IV bag for me. IMHO, respect needs to be earned, not granted just based on how many years of experience you have. Competence is important in our line or work. It's nothing personal. It says nothing about the kind of person the incompetent provider is. They can be the nicest person in the world with their heart in the right place, and I will commend anyone who tries to do the right thing and is willing to learn. But as a provider, I'll respect the 2 day EMT who's competent over the 20 year EMT who's incompetent any day. Unfortuately the thinking that "I've been and EMT for 20 years" equates to one being a competent provider is a dangerous way of thinking because you don't allow yourself to realize your own deficiencies because providers end up with the "I know it all" attitude. You never stop learning... I find myself sometimes going to younger medics now with questions, especially since I left the field full time, and I am not ashamed to ask or get a second opinion.

I am very well aware of the title of the thread, and while one's individual experience does not pertain to covering EMS calls, it does pertain to understanding how certain agencies work and how EMS as a whole works in Westchester County. You have not experienced the ups and downs inherent to Volunteer agencies to understand why staffing problems do exist at times. Or maybe you have. You stated in a previous post that PVAC has for now and the past few years had no problems at all getting Ambulances out the door, but a few posts later you point out that PVAC was considering hiring per-diem EMT's to cover calls just 5 months ago. So which one is it? Obviously you took my statement to heart, because you became very emotional and defensive. My statements were not intended to be derogatory, as I stated. I commend your enthusiasm and your dedication to PVAC. I remember a time when I was just as proud. But to say that time and experience are useless when it comes to EMS in Westcheseter County couldn't be any further from the truth.

Yes, they take what they can get and make due with it, and some places do a very good job with the minimal manpower that they do have. I see it in a lot of agencies, the same couple faces over and over again covering the majority of the jobs. What happens though when those few people decide to give up volunteering? That's where the cycle comes in that I'm talking about. I admire your enthusiasm and commitment to PVAC, and I don't mean this as a derogatory remark, but I noticed your age range... 18-20... give it a few more years and you'll begin to see the bigger picture. Based on some of the your statements, I can see your lack of experience but eagerness to volunteer and be involved in emergency services, which is commendable.

Just because it may not be true in Pleasantville now, doesn't mean that it won't be true in Pleasantville a month from now... and I'm only using Pleasantville as an example because that's the agency whose name is being used in this thread. Volunteer agencies go through surges in membership, where a group of new, active, and eager individuals join the agency, get certified as EMT's, and get out there and ride the bus every chance they get. Once the whole EMS thing starts to lose it's lustre, family or personal obligations start popping up, younger providers get hired by paid agencies and no longer volunteer, or the general nonsense (popularity contests, good ole boys club, politics, etc) that is inherent to a lot of volunteer agencies takes its toll on a once dedicated volunteer... well the next thing you know XYZ ambulance corps, which was once able to cover all of its calls and then some for the next town over, can't even cover their own calls on the weekends. Then maybe a few months or a year later, a new group of individuals join the agency, get certified as EMT's, are eager to get out there, and the cycle begins again. Any lapse in coverage or membership is unacceptable. Kudos to the agencies that realize this and either hire EMTs for coverage or contract with a private company to provide EMTs. I think the Town of Mt. Pleasant is a great example of where consolidation and regionalization could benefit the EMS system.

A few years ago, a police officer within NYS wrote a phantom summons to Santa Claus, who can now be found in the NYS DMV computer. Every Christmas, the guys at work end up running Santa over the air. Sector: xxAdam to Central Central: xxAdam Sector: Central show me with a sleigh stop xxxxx Avenue and East xxx Street, can you run a NYS Client ID xxx-xxx-xxx. Central: xxAdam, be advised client ID comes back valid to Santa Claus, 1 North Pole Way, North Pole, NY. Do you need any further? Sector: Negative, warned and admonished on the sleigh stop Another classic, especially over NYC Citywide... Sector: Chewy, on the air Chewy? Chewbacca responds with the classic Chewbacca growl....

I'm pretty sure Somers FD has their own team. In addition to Somers, you have a few more Dive Teams in Westchester: Mount Pleasant PD Croton-on-Hudson PD NY State Police Yorktown FD New Rochelle PD (which I believe was disbanded due to budget constraints)

Read more: http://www.dailymail...rs-protest.html

There have been numerous occasions when STAT Flight was requested unnecessarily. You would really have to look at the specifics of each case to determine what made the request unnecessary. In my own personal experience, you can break it down into 3 categories. The first category would be the "playing it safe" category. This is when an EMS provider fails to do a complete and accurate examination of the patient and simply goes by the perceived severity of the incident. The medevac request protocol should really serve as a guide, and some EMS providers base their requests on the protocol without using common reasoning. I have usually found that non-EMS providers who request a medevac typically fall into this category as well. They pull up to the scene of a horriffic MVA. They focus on the mangled cars, and not the patients, and immediately request a medevac before EMS conducts any kind of a physical exam to determine if a medevac is really necessary. I have cancelled STAT Flight on a few occasions because after conducting an exam of the patient, they were determnined them to be stable, and found there was no reason why the patient could not be transported by ground. The second category is the "misdiagnosis" category. This would be when an EMS provider does conduct an exam of a patient and believes that there may be internal or hidden injuries which require an expedited means of transportation to the hospital. You can't fault the EMS provider if it turns out the patient has only minor injuries since the basis for the medevac decision was based on how the patient presented to the provider and their belief that expediting transport via a medevac would be the most beneficial means for the patient. The third category is the "glory" category. Incidents where the helicopter is called because the requesting individual thinks the helicpoter is "cool" or it will make a great photo op for us to hang on our wall. Unfortunately these individuals do exist, and present a serious misuse of resources. I think that medevacs do have their place in Westchester County, especially in the northeast part of the county where accessing major highways that lead to the Medical Center is more difficult then other parts of the County. STAT Flight can also be useful during prolonged incidents, such as pin jobs, where they are already on scene, so once the patient is extricated, they can be immediately placed into the waiting helicopter and immediately transported to WMC.

A 48 year old man masturbating over a webcam to someone whom he believed was a 15 year old girl is not as serious a crime as some are making it out to be? Please, please, tell all of us on this website that you are joking, or that you have re-thought the seriousness of this offense and have changed your mind. A 48 year old who engages a 15 year old in any kind of sexual chat or activity is a sexual predator, plain and simple.

The article talks about volunteer ambulance corps. Not the voluntary hospitals that are a part of the 911 system.

With a confirmed jumper where emergency services are immediately contacted, at what point do we determine it is a recovery and not a rescue? People have jumped from the Tappan Zee Bridge and survived. Are the chances slim, yes. You say that you would risk the equipment and personnel for a plane crash but not a jumper because who survives a 160 foot plunge into frigid water... but how many people survive when a commercial plane crashes? It was dubbed the "Miracle on the Hudson" because it was a miracle that there were survivors... fortunately everyone survived that day. But are your chances of surviving a plane crash slim, yes they are. Yes, some of the first responders to the "Miracle on the Hudson" were in fact the NY Waterways Ferrys... but you can't compare the boat traffic in the NYC stretch of the Hudson River to the boat traffic as you continue north on the Hudson River. You mentioned utilizing these Ferry's until better trained and equipped personnel arrive, but once again we're talking about using another outside resource to do the work for us until we get up to speed. Hundreds of jumpers? There have been hundreds of jumpers off the Tappan Zee Bridge since the 1980's? According to the New York State Thruway Authority 25 people have committed suicide on the Bridge from 1998 to 2008, the Journal News reports it at 40 people. So either hundreds of people have jumped and the overwhelming majority survived, which would dispel the statement that no one survives the jump, or your claim of hundreds of jumpers is a little far-fetched.

I have a few questions... How is a single boat with a couple of firefighters on it going to handle a large scale river emergency such as a larger commuter plane down in the water? You talk about risk/benefit, what are the risks involved with sending out an inadequate amount of personnel to handle a large scale incident? If the Irvington boat couldn't get out for a lone jumper because of ice at the launch site, how would that same boat get out if it was a larger scale incident? Since when is it our job to place a value on a persons life who decided to jump from the Tappan Zee Bridge? How is a plane loaded with passengers worth more of a risk over a jumper? If you're not comfortable risking the lives of people and equipment because someone suffering some form of emotional distress decided to jump into the Hudson, perhaps you need to re-think why you are involved in emergency services. Individuals have been pulled from ice-cold water an hour after submersion and have had positive outcomes with a full and complete recovery. Hypothermia can be our friend.

In addition to saving money, I think the other positive part of regionalization and/or consolidation between Fire, Police, and EMS when it comes certain services, such as Water Rescue, Rope Rescue, etc. is that you have a wider pool of talent to choose from. When it comes to some of these specialized services, I don't necessarily think it's the line of work you're in that makes you a good technician, but I think individuals from each of these services may have something to bring to the table. An individuals experiences,past employment, and even hobbies can all influence their competence in some of the different aspects of rescue work. Someone who is a avid rock climber may be a good candidate for rope rescue work. Someome who is an avid Scuba Diver and/or swimmer might fare well on a water rescue team. When you have a FD doing their own thing, a PD doing their own thing, and well, EMS never really does anything specialized around here, you're limiting yourself to the members of your department. IMHO I believe that it would be beneficial that we start working together some more and break the barriers of PD, FD, and EMS.

What about the Town of Greenburgh joint PD/FD TRT? Are they considered a valuable resource in terms of technical rescue? Assuming that members of a TRT are already competent in their skills, how many drills per month should a TRT conduct to ensure their competency? I don't know much about the Fire Service, and the little that I do know is that the capabilities of Yonkers FD far surpasses most other career departments in the County. My only question is that if a unit like the Westchester County HAZMAT unit or TRT is considered an unnecessary duplication of resources, as was stated by another poster, since the City of Yonkers already has these resources available, will the City of Yonkers FD respond mutual aid to an incident in the northern parts of Westchester County? What if Yonkers FD responds mutual aid to an incident in Yorktown, and is now unavailable to the City of Yonkers? I'm only asking because I really don't know a single thing about the Fire Service.

Here are a couple of excerpts from the NYS Vehicle and Traffic Law under Section 375: 3. if manufactured on or after January first, nineteen hundred fifty-two, at least two lighted lamps on the rear, one on each side, which lamps shall display a red light visible from the rear for a distance of at least one thousand feet; 18-a. Any motor vehicle may be equipped with and every motor vehicle registered in this state and manufactured or assembled after June thirtieth, nineteen hundred sixty-five, and designated as a nineteen hundred sixty-six or subsequent year model, shall be equipped with a device, approved by the commissioner, by means of which the operator may cause the two front and two rear directional signals to flash simultaneously for the purpose of warning the operators of other vehicles of the presence of a vehicular traffic hazard requiring the exercise of unusual care in approaching, overtaking or passing. The provisions of this subdivision requiring that certain motor vehicles shall be so equipped shall not apply to special purpose commercial motor vehicles registered under schedule F of subdivision seven of section four hundred one or to a vehicle or combination of vehicles lawfully operated under registration issued under section four hundred fifteen. 41. Colored and flashing lights. The provisions of this subdivision shall govern the affixing and display of lights on vehicles, other than those lights required by law. 1. No light, other than a white light, and no revolving, rotating, flashing, oscillating or constantly moving white light shall be affixed to, or displayed on any vehicle except as prescribed herein. 2. Red lights and certain white lights. One or more red or combination red and white lights, or one white light which must be a revolving, rotating, flashing, oscillating or constantly moving light, may be AFFIXED to an authorized emergency vehicle, and such lights may be displayed on an authorized emergency vehicle when such vehicle is engaged in an emergency operation, and upon a fire vehicle while returning from an alarm of fire or other emergency. 3. Amber lights. a. One or more amber lights may be affixed to a hazard vehicle, and such a light or lights which display an amber light visible to all approaching traffic under normal atmospheric conditions from a distance of five hundred feet from such vehicle shall be displayed on a hazard vehicle when such vehicle is engaged in a hazardous operation. Such light or lights shall not be required to be displayed during daylight hours provided at least two red flags visible from a distance of five hundred feet are placed both in or on the front of, and to or on the rear of the vehicle and two such flags are placed to each side of the vehicle open to traffic. Such lights or flags need not be displayed on the vehicle when the vehicle is operating, or parked, within a barricaded work area and said lights or flags are displayed on the barricade. The provisions of this subdivision shall not prohibit the temporary affixing and display of an amber light to be used as a warning on a disabled motor vehicle or on a motor vehicle while it is stopped on a highway while engaged in an operation which would restrict, impede or interfere with the normal flow of traffic. b. In any city in this state having a population of one million or more, one amber light may be affixed to any motor vehicle owned or operated by a volunteer member of a civilian or crime patrol provided such volunteer civilian or crime patrol member has been authorized in writing to so affix an amber light by the police commissioner of the municipality in which he patrols, which authorization shall be subject to revocation at any time by the police commissioner who issued the same or his successor in office. Such amber light may be operated by such volunteer civilian or crime patrol member in such a vehicle only when engaged in a patrol operation as defined and authorized by rules and regulations promulgated by the police commissioner and only in such a manner and at such times as may be authorized by the police commissioner pursuant to said rules and regulations. 4. Blue light. a. One blue light may be affixed to any motor vehicle owned by a volunteer member of a fire department or on a motor vehicle owned by a member of such person's family residing in the same household or by a business enterprise in which such person has a proprietary interest or by which he or she is employed, provided such volunteer firefighter has been authorized in writing to so affix a blue light by the chief of the fire department or company of which he or she is a member, which authorization shall be subject to revocation at any time by the chief who issued the same or his or her successor in office. Such blue light may be displayed exclusively by such volunteer firefighter on such a vehicle only when engaged in an emergency operation. The use of blue and red light combinations shall be prohibited on all fire vehicles. The use of blue lights on fire vehicles shall be prohibited and the use of blue lights on vehicles shall be restricted for use only by a volunteer firefighter except as otherwise provided for in subparagraph b of this paragraph. b. In addition to the red and white lights authorized to be displayed pursuant to paragraph two of this subdivision, one or more blue lights or combination blue and red lights or combination blue, red and white lights may be affixed to a police vehicle, provided that such blue light or lights shall be displayed on a police vehicle for rear projection only. In the event that the trunk or rear gate of a police vehicle obstructs or diminishes the visibility of other emergency lighting on such vehicle, a blue light may be affixed to and displayed from the trunk, rear gate or interior of such vehicle. Such lights may be displayed on a police vehicle when such vehicle is engaged in an emergency operation. Nothing contained in this subparagraph shall be deemed to authorize the use of blue lights on police vehicles unless such vehicles also display one or more red or combination red and white lights as otherwise authorized in this subdivision. c. The commissioner is authorized to promulgate rules and regulations relating to the use, placement, power and display of blue lights on a police vehicle. 5. Green light. One green light may be affixed to any motor vehicle owned by a member of a volunteer ambulance service, or on a motor vehicle owned by a member of such person's family, or by a business enterprise in which such person has a proprietary interest or by which he is employed, provided such member has been authorized in writing to so affix a green light by the chief officer of such service as designated by the members thereof. Such green light may be displayed exclusively by such member of a volunteer ambulance service only when engaged in an emergency operation. The use of green lights on vehicles shall be restricted for use only by a member of a volunteer ambulance service as provided for in this paragraph. As used in this paragraph volunteer ambulance service means: a. a non-profit membership corporation (other than a fire corporation) incorporated under or subject to the provisions of the membership corporations law, or any other law, operating its ambulance or ambulances on a non-profit basis for the convenience of the members thereof and their families or of the community or under a contract with a county, city, town or village pursuant to section one hundred twenty-two-b of the general municipal law; or b. an unincorporated association of persons operating its ambulance or ambulances on a non-profit basis for the convenience of the members and their families or of the community. 6. The commissioner is authorized to promulgate regulations with respect to the affixing and display of colored lights and to promulgate specifications with respect to such lights. The regulation talks about lights that are AFFIXED to vehicles, not lights that are already present on a vehicle, such as 4-way flashers.

It's not about proving anything. If you don't agree with it, don't participate. It's that simple.

I don't post on here often, and when I do I keep my posts to a minimum. I like to get involved in debates about sensitive issues just as much as some other members do, but I don't get involved in serious debates on this site because you say one thing and right away 10 people are crying that you're bashing or criticizing. Quite frankly, it's a turn off for a lot of people who may be able to contribute positively to the forum, but don't want to get all mixed up in the nonsense. I don't think that outright attacks should exist in this forum. I don't think this forum should become the equivalent of an NYPD Rant type forum where a bunch of disgruntled emergency services personnel talk about who is the worst paramedic, or the laziest cop, or the buffiest firefighter. I think this forum should remain a constructive place for local emergency services personnel to debate and discuss the issues that exist in emergency services, whether at the local or national level. Chris192's post in the other thread related to this topic is a perfect response I think... if only I could put it so eloquently, but honestly I don't care much about being eloquent. Emergency services personnel generally have Alpha/dominant personalities. They're leaders, they face things that the general public does not face, and we do things that the general public does not do. Having an alpha personality means sometimes you have to grow some thick skin. If someone throws a jab at volunteers, don't cry about it. Come up with an educated rebuttal that disputes what that member is saying. Problems exist across the board with paid, volunteer, and combination departments. Discussing these problems is not bashing, it's a discussion to talk about the problems that exist. If you don't like the fact that your agency has faults that someone pointed out in this forum, get over it. Maybe the points brought up here are valid points, so instead of crying about it, do something about it. Make necessary changes, ask how things can be improved, ask what you can do to bring your agency up to the recognized standards. The simple fact is that in an area where there is so much diversity amongst its emergency service personnel, there's always going to be conflict and debates. Just because someone's views on a certain person, agency, service, or method of doing things aren't your own views, as JFLYNN says, QTIP. I can only hope that too many members of the general public don't read the nonsense that goes on here. Some of the threads are fantastic, with great input from a lot of educated and experienced individuals. The moderators do an excellent job of weeding out posts that are not constructive. While I don't personally know you Seth, I know you value this forum for what it is and I know that you and the staff have put a lot of time, effort, and money into creating this forum. All I can say is, don't let all the petty complaints and other nonsense get to you. If people have a problem with things that are said here or topics that arise, let them move on, and find another forum where everyone holds hands and sings songs around a campfire. If they choose not to move on, then they are going to have to learn not to be so sensitive and grow some thicker skin.

As Chris192 said, it's the Apprehension Team. They are a full time warrant service squad. Guys (and gals) from the Trucks all serve stints in the A-Team... I believe it is a 6 month stint before you are sent back to your Truck and they fly in a new squad of A-Team members. Narcotics (OCCB) does their own warrant service. The only time they request ESU for a warrant is if there is a high likelihood of encountering an armed adversary.

How about you tone it down a little, people have questions and opinions, I thought that was the whole point of this site. Instead of talking down to people and taking it personal, why don't you educate us since you obviously have some knowledge as to the inner workings of this program.

Since when did the FD or PD become a DOH certified ALS First Response Agency and/or train there guys to be paramedics? Last I knew both agencies were operating at a BLS level.