EMT-7035

From their Facebook page....

It would have to be constantly transmitting for them to do so.

I love how realistic this show can be, especially during calls. Last night's episode, the Chief was arrested for ordering his men to close the road after despite warnings from a Trooper not to.

Date: November 27th 2013
Time: 2321
Incident Type: Working Attic Fire
Location: 595 Millwood Road
District: Mt Kisco
Units:
Mt Kisco FD: 2281, 2283, E102, E103, E105, E106, Rescue 31, Tower Ladder 14
Bedford Hills FD: 2031, 2032, Tower Ladder 57
Yorktown Heights FD: Ladder 51 (Relocate)
Chappaqua FD: 2063, Engine 146 (Relocate)
Chappaqua EMS: 54-B-1
Westchester EMS: 45M2
Westchester DES: Battalion 16

Description: Fire in the heating duct work in the basement of a 2 Story wood frame 75x30


Updates:
2336 - PD reporting active fire in the basement
2339 - 2281 requesting 10-75, E106 to pull in the driveway
2340 - IC requesting Rescue 31 to shut down the road, utilize the light tower
2341 - Fireground 8 for all responding units
0006 - IC reporting Fire in the heating duct work has been extinguished, under control, investigating further
0011 - 2031 and the Truck back in service
0015 - IC releasing Chappaqua engine, E103 & E105 back in service
0027 - EMS returning to the scene for a subject with smoke inhalation.
0054 - All units in service with the exception of 2282 and Rescue 31

I've never understood the need to staff an ambulance like a clown car. A crew of 5 is just absurd. I've seen a driver, crew chief, EMT, attendant and designated clipboard carrier (all wearing gloves of course but that's another rant). Do you really need someone to just carry the clipboard? What kind of "training" or "experience" are you getting by doing that?

No ambulance is designed for that and it is just plain dangerous and inefficient.

If the crew chief is that uncomfortable with his/her skills, don't be crew chief. Don't fill the ambulance with a pep squad.
Ideal crew size for an EMS call is 2-3. 90% of calls only need one EMT and for the other 10% a second set of hands in the back is nice to have but three sets of hands will just get in the way.
PS - It's not the BLS crews job to drive the ALS fly-car to the hospital so don't say you brought a valet for that reason. And don't drive to the hospital lights and siren with the fly-car but that is also another topic.

The only regulation that I'm aware of that might be applicable would be that of seatbelt law compliance. Like musical chairs, if you don't have a seat (and seat belt) when the music stops, then you're out.
Are the agencies that are running these mega crews operating more than one ambulance? If so, they should not be sending a mega crew out on most calls if they don't have a guaranteed crew for other units. You're not meeting the (EMS) needs of the community if you put 4-5 people on the first out unit and then can't crew for a second call.

Do you need a code 3 response for CO no symptoms probably not, but I would think you would need more than one person right. Isn't a suspected CO leak considered IDLH, meaning you need 2-in 2-out with SCBAs? At least our fire department treats it as such.
In the Maryland agency I was dispatching for, a CO NOSYMPTOMS call type got 1 engine. a CO SYMPTOMS call got 1 engine and 1 ambulance

They have been using these on 684 for awhile now

1) To answer your first part simply; its called leadership. If your IC allows these drivers and "exterior" people to lead a rescue there are more issues in your department then you know. IC is set up for a reason, make them do their jobs better and these exterior ops guys wont be charging in the to "rescue".
Before I continue, I agree with you 100% about the training standards needing to be the same across the state, if your title says "Firefighter" then you should have all the necessary training, and the right amount and type of training, to back that up.
In my area it is common to see "exterior support" members (notice I didnt call them firefighters) that take training called "Scene Support Operations". These members are valuable to us as well. They assist the pump operator set up portable ponds, set up drafting operations, stretch and move around hose lines, chase kinks in hose lines, set up ladders on all sides of the building for emergency egress purposes, set up staging areas for tools, set up rehab areas for outcoming firefighters to get water and fresh bottles...it goes on and on. If you have to use interior firefighters to do all of these tasks...whos fighting the fire? Around here due to lack of help it would be nobody, cause they would all be doing these tasks first, THEN packing up and going in. We see them as valuable resources that can still be used to help their communities. During the storms (Irene and Sandy) these exterior support members would head up the shelter relief efforts alongside our ladies aux. units, doing the cooking for shelter workers, setting up the piles and piles of donations that were coming in and sorting them and distributing them (Our station ended up being a shelter for months due to the devastation in my area) and delivering much needed supplies to the hardest hit areas in my county. Some of these members put in hundreds of hours, hundreds of miles on their personal 4WD vehicles (to reach flood victims with food and clothing and cleaning supplies) so that those of us who are firefighters could be available to respond to actual emergency calls and not be tied up with shelter ops. They are usefull to some volunteer agencies, what needs to happen is the ability to think outside the box and realize that some communities are different then others and have different needs. Like the difference between westchester county and my county.
As far as "Firefighters", hands down 100% without-a-doubt agree that we NEED the same training across the board. I would have loved to have taken the career academy when I first started out 24 years ago, but I made due. I took every and all training classes that came to my county, and even traveled to the fire academy in Montaur Falls a dozen times for good training. There are several courses I have taken 2-3 times already, and 1 or 2 that I have taken 4 times or more to refresh. I continue to train as well and will not stop, even though I am assistant chief. Just because I wear a white hat now doesnt mean I wont be needed to stretch and initial attack line, or do the primary search, or vent for the attack team. I will still be ready, and continue to train until I am old a frail, and will have to be forced to stop.

I just wanted to clarify my position here, I wrote this in the FAST topic and quickly saw how many of you could get confused and call me out on this issue, so allow me to clarify;
I believe there can be two forms of membership in the volunteer service; Firefighters, and "Support Personnel". The firefighters need that standard of training for the whole state, to be on the same page as other firefighters and I believe that we should have to get licensed like EMT's and Paramedics have to, so we have to re-certify every 5 years to keep up to date on old and new skills and demonstrate to an official person that we can still PERFORM those skills AND have the knowledge needed to stay alive, that we didnt forget it or that we actually PAYED ATTENTION during classes. Around here I see it too much; young guys go take every class, YET they are in the back row, no note books or pens, joking around with "buddies", not paying attention and there is NO TEST. At the end you go up and get your pretty piece of cardboard with you name on it and some fancy signatures from the fire administrator and fire coordinator (that means absolutely NOTHING without the "Passed Exam" in the upper corner) and go back to your station and start to brag about it...
I feel that by having to pass both a written exam and practical exam, supervised by state officials from the fire service, in order to receive a "Firefighter I" License (Like a NYS EMT Card but for Firefighter I, II, III, Fire Officer I, II,III, and Haz-Mat Tech I, II, III) it would force these younger guys to pay attention and actually learn, and by re-certifying every five years its not just a get the certificate and throw it out and forget it type thing anymore, you need to stay on top of things, read articles, attend other classes so you can pass the re-cert tests. Thats what the volunteer fire service needs.
As far as "Support Personnel", they can be like the old "Fire Patrol" units. They can support exterior ops like hose lays, drafting, ladder positioning, rehab areas, staging areas and then later assist with salvage operations and re-packing the hose and cleaning tools so the exhausted firefighters can take time to re-charge. Or like I mentioned in my quote, assist with shelters and other support functions like fund raisers and fire prevention activities.

Yes. As an assistant chief, if I call for mutual aid for tankers and manpower...I want that manpower to be ready, able and trained to fight fires. Usually you will get a mix of members; some interior, some exterior, even some who are brand new members that have new turnouts on (but cant use them) and are basically good for "gopher" duties only. And in some cases you get more explorers riding the rig then firefighters.
Same for accident scenes; I shouldnt have to ask if you are trained to extricate someone from a vehicle, if you dont have AVET then you shouldnt be on the rescue truck when it rolls to an MVA.
My bitch for years has been to adopt the same standards as EMT's in our state. They have to go through a certification process involving training (classroom and hands on), and two tests in order to receive your license. Then you have to re-cert every three years. THATS the way it should be for firefighters, but I feel a good re-cert term for us would be five years. Show up, demonstrate you still know the basic skills in the training facility, take a test and your re-certified. Fail...and you have to re-take the training. Lots of people hate the idea, yet they still bitch on these forums that training standards should be taken more seriously state wide for firefighters....I feel this idea is a good option; is it the ultimate cure for the problem? Never. But its a good option that should be considered and revised to suit our needs.
But I agree; same training for every firefighter, paid or volunteer, big city or small rural farm community with one engine and 6 members. Same across the board so every "firefighter" on scene can do every task required of them.

Westchester EMS - Northern Westchester Medics (45 Medics) - 5157 calls, up 202 calls (4%) over 2011.

The Troopers were the first to arrive. Yes, the police often respond to emergencies in the rural parts of the state. This being a Friday afternoon, just before Christmas in a sparsely populated town with a well hidden from road/view structure the fire had a lot of headway before it was discovered. The person who discovered the fire actually drove to the volunteer firehouse to report it, found no one there and used the emergency phone to notify 911. The fire department was finally called, and almost immediately called 3 more departments under mutual aid for assistance. There is not a career fire department within sight of southern Columbia County. Troopers arrived initially and updated 911. The fire department did eventually show up with an engine, a tanker and a rescue each with a driver. With the limited manpower and some more enroute from neighboring departments with extended ETA's, the IC asked the Troopers for assistance to try to keep the fire from extending to the other portion of the house. The Troopers, 3/4 who are volunteer firefighters with chief officer experience and training obliged with permission from their supervisor. When enough fire personnel arrived, the Troopers were relieved and re-assumed their law enforcement roles.
Maybe not the best situation, but it happened, happened safely and they did do some good. Let's face it, this fire was the biggest thing going on in Columbia County at the time and the 2 speeders that got away on the Taconic during the time the Troopers were manning the hoseline will be caught next time.
As someone who takes a lot of fire pics in the Greene & Columbia areas I see the cooperation between law, fire and rescue squads all the time. You look up here at fire scenes and say "What the ....??" and I look at operations in the "Metro" areas and just scratch my head.
And Truck12345 seriously? Bill the FD for the Troopers time?? Maybe we should send bills to the NYSP every time we have to sit at a wire down on a STATE road and wait for NiMo or CH?? Maybe the next time we need the Troopers to help close a road so we can lay supply line across the street, maybe they won't be there.
I'm proud and happy that these Troopers were able to help and were not so disgruntled and screwed up that they just looked crosseyed at the Chief and said "Sorry dude. Not my job."

So.... We should leave the elderly woman who's incapacitated on her bedroom floor there to rot? Where do you volley/work? I want to make sure I don't have family that lives there.

No matter what anyone says, the IC made a COMMAND DECISION, and utilized whatever resources he had available at the time. What would be the difference between setting up a master stream and leaving it flowing unattended, versus putting those fine gentlemen in charge of a hoseline (aside from the fact that a master stream shouldn't be left unattended)?
I applaud the IC recognizing that help was needed and seeking the assistance, and even more, thumbs up to the Purple Ties for rising to the task. They very easily could have said "not my job" and gone and secured a perimeter/the scene (not a knock on LEO's).
I have been on many scenes that the PD assisted with fire operations, none were ever freelancing, and everyone forgets....
WE ARE ALL OUT THERE FOR ONE PURPOSE!!! TO PROTECT AND SERVE THE PUBLIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So long as that gets done, in a controlled manner, and everyone goes home safe, everyone should take a chill pill, and re-focus and worry about the problems they/their own department has, before throwing out s*** about what others do.
[/rant]

One thing to remember. Mileage on PD cars can be misleading. You have to include that those are often hard miles. Especially on highway and inner-city units. Also, figure most cars idle 25x as long as your average passenger car (if not more). So not as many miles, but hundreds of hours more worth of usage.

I see nothing wrong with a fine after say the third time when conditions warrant under set guidelines as to what is a cronic system error on the owners part as opposed to an honest mistake...steam from shower because the bathroom door was left open, food on the stove, when you've never been to that address before, 17 year old daughter setting off alarm when coming home from school because she does not know how to cancel or forgot the "passcode". These are honest false alarms, that for the most part are always corrected. But when there is a short in the system or construction work has altered something, hi-lows that always hit low hanging smoke heads that should be moved or managers dont give a crap when an employee keeps smoking in the bathroom when they should not and the owners disregard whats going on, time after time, then give them a fine. bet it will be fixed. When are people going to have some accountability for there actions?

Wow, never heard such a uproar about a somewhat posititive article. I agree, the main point of the article was not to higlight the "whining firefighters" but to propose a solution to solve the problem. I don't care who you are, there's nothing good about false alarms. From the responses, it woud appear that no one here is thinking big picture and that folks just want to knee jerk and call names. Try thinking about big the big picture. Responding is dangerous, no one wants to get hurt only to find out the call was bogus and from a place you keep going back to. It takes resources to respond, whether no matter what type of dept....people mentioned tough times, guess what that includes municipal services. No one is saying don't respond but an unecessary response can be avoided, everyone wins. As for the manpower issue, perhaps morale is a bad word to use, but the issue is real. How many false calls can someone go on before they really upset their boss? How many times can the same address pop up before anyone gets burned out? I don't think the article mentioned punishing those have a false alarm, but those who are continually having false alarm and have been educated on how to alleviate the problem. If the fines allow the staff to continue doing what they do and help their community, why is that bad thing? The decision is about protecting and helping those who serve the community so they can continue to do so.

Out of control and should be shut down? If you feel thats the case, hit the report button, thats what it is there for. This thread and it's posts have so far been professional, mature, and a lot of decent points have been made about other options that may have been available to YHFD instead of continuing to build a firehouse that the taxpayers said no to not once, but twice. Instead of stomping your feet that this thread is "out of control and should be shut down", how about providing an educated, well thought out rebuttal as to why the firehouse is a necessity. And please stop with the "people are against us cause we're volunteer" nonsense; quite frankly its getting really old. If someone from YHFD would like to provide some information as to this firehouse, I'm sure everyone would respect some insight. Personally I think it's silly to go forward with this build considering the close proximity of Millwood, and as my parents are taxpayers in Yorktown, I'm curious how many firefighters live in the south end of town to staff the apparatus. That opinion is based on facts provided by others... My opinion can be changed if someone can offer up a logical argument to convince me otherwise.

I'm not surprised that accidents involving volunteers greatly outnumber paid.
Volunteer firefighters greatly outnumber paid so of course the incidences would be correspondingly higher.
This was just another lame attempt to create animosity between the the vols and paid. Poor judgement behind the wheel is a reflection of the
individual regardless of compensation.

You said the overwhelming majority of these wrecks are on the volunteer side. Do you have the stats? With the sheer number of volunteer fire departments I would expect more volunteer accidents than paid. Add in that every volunteer is driving to the scene or station, are volunteers more reckless. I don't have any real info on this, but would be curious to see the breakdown of accidents per firefighter or even department. I doubt its out there, but per mile driven could also be really interesting. I'm sure the bias towards younger firefighters and older equipment bumps up the rate of accidents for volunteers. All in all a comprehensive review of this would be very interesting.

The sense of entitlement and self importance expressed by many of the posters on this thread is, unfortunately, not surprising. We are public servants, not the other way around guys. A fair days pay for a fair days work. Or, in the case of volunteers- volunteer, which means to do something with no expectation of compensation.
In my opinion. if there is a clearly advertised "deal" or "discount" for Fire / EMS / Police, go ahead and take it. If you need to ask for it, or persuade (aka intimidate, embarass or coerce) someone to give it to you, you have demeaned yourself and discredited your profession.
It is heartening to see from reading this thread that I am not alone in my feelings on this.

The uniform requirement in NYC was under the assumption that cops and firefighters generally only wear their uniforms on duty. Exceptions are infrequent enough as to be insignificant. As grumpy pointed out while they are technically riding for free they are expected to act in the event of an emergency. While these are rare, they are frequent enough that the vast majority of employed cops, firefighters, and ems happily pair their way so as to remain anonymous.
The LIRR shooting was a really big deal. This was not some random spraying of bullets into a crowded train. He walked through the train calmly shooting each passenger as they sat or hid in their seat. He was armed with more than 100 rounds of ammunition and was not stopped until 3 citizens jumped him while he attempted to load his third clip. The public was understandably upset and politicians wanted to get more cops riding the trains. There were proposals put forward to make any cop legally allowed to ride mass transit for free. What is the value of a human life? Not the emotional value, but real world civil court value of a life. One cop on that train and how many lives are saved? I don't agree with randomly handing out free rides to anyone. However if an officer wants to carry and be willing to act, welcome aboard. Its a much cheaper alternative to hiring a cop to ride the train.
How is a discount any different than a free pass? What's a fair break, 10%, 20%, or 99%?
How many joy rides do you think cruisers, fire trucks or ambulances take across the bridges and tunnels? Generally speaking we are making these crossings because we have to. We do not charge the MTA or TBTA for services rendered on their property so why would they charge us for using their crossings? At the start of the budget crunch there was an attempt by the TBTA to start billing emergency vehicles until this very point was made to them. The FD would happily develop a rate structure for responses on their property. Its bad enough that not having an EZPass or using a cash only lane causes actual delays in response while they attempt to record your vehicle number, license plate, and driver ID. Everything has a cost, just because you're not seeing it at the toll booth or turnstile doesn't mean it is not being recouped in another way.
No, but they do frequently receive discounts to all those places and more. How often are doctors, nurses, or lawyers experienced in handling whatever situation they may encounter outside the warm confines of their office? The fact of the matter is emergency service workers are experienced in handling not just the situation but the crowds and uncontrolled environment they find themselves in. Businesses give us discounts for both the goodwill it generates and to attract people that can and will help in an emergency.
The engineer was paid to design the train. Until an engineer voluntarily walks into the MTA's Brooklyn headquarters and hands over a useful design or schematic without outside compensation that's not a valid point. The MTA expects members riding for free to step up and help in an emergency.
For all the calls I handle in public places in Manhattan it is incredibly rare for a bystander not connected to emergency services to stop and help. Nurses are the only exception to this. Everyone else, whether they're suits or laborers all have a volunteer gig or previous career in emergency services.

When you possess the knowledge to help a situation either through intervention or providing HELPFUL information to responding parties your position as a passenger changes to responder, and for that your fare has already been paid for through hundreds of hours of training and experience. In many cases the hours of experience is in the ten's of thousands. If you look at the ridership on the train, I can guarantee you that when it hits the fan you will see about 99.9% of the riders heading in the right direction, you need those of us who would be heading in the opposite direction there, especially if it is you that needs it.

Why would someone who lists themselves as a photo enthusiast even come with the statement that says PD FD or EMS should not ride for free. Ask your dad what he thinks. Since you possess zero tools to help in a situation perhaps you should learn some first then see what you have when the stuff really starts to roll down hill, actually you should hope you have one of us on YOUR train to bail you out.