CFFD117

Ok I'm going to jump in here to try and end this crap just like I did the last time that M'Ave was getting jumped all over for apparent KoolAid consumption.....
First.... He and the other FDNY'ers on here have been critical of the Seagrave products that have been produced over the past decade due to poor build quality compared to prior generations from Seagrave as well as the poor maintenance and warranty work coupled extended repair times on the recent orders. I have read little to no Seagrave KoolAid talk from the FDNY Jakes on this board for some time. Second, some of the FDNY members posting here were open to the Ferrara purchases prior to delivery hoping for an improvement to the build quality. Alas, there was no improvement if not a regression in the quality of the rigs that were delivered from Ferrara and their opinion moved from hopeful to disappointed. No KoolAid, just experience (which I'll get to later). Finally, with the most recent order of KME rigs that have been extremely successful on the west coast the attitude was hopeful once again.... And surprise!!!! As of a few weeks ago, the KME order seemed to be getting good reviews. No KoolAid, just rigs that aren't disappointing yet.
The crux of the situation is that there are a handful of guys on this board to work for FDNY and have the experience of riding thousands (sometime over ten thousand) calls a year with a particular rig, not to mention driving it to BI, training, and other runs that aren't considered calls. They work in a relatively small geographic area that has nine times the population of the entire Provence of Nova Scotia. Hell Manhattan alone has 1.5 times the population of the Provence of Nova Scotia.... Let alone the daytime population of commuters that comes to the city. So to call these guys out and tell them that they are KoolAid drinkers is just plain silly. They don't give a damn what the brand of truck is that they're riding on as long at it doesn't break, gets to the fire, keeps them warm in the winter and cool in the summer.
Ferrara makes a very good fire truck. Its just not up to the job, in its current form, in NYC. Fact, not KoolAid.

I disagree. All fire trucks should carry water............... in easily deployable 16-20 ounce plastic bottles.

Not to comment on what is the biggest, etc, but this one applies to Westchester Departments. When the USS (not SS) Constellation burned in the Brooklyn Navy Yard in 1960, SCBA's were just starting to be used by the fire service. Most commonly used at the time were things like OBA's, Chemox, and the like
FDNY had some Scott SCBA's and departments in Westchester had maybe one or two in their inventory.
FDNY put out a request for as many SCBA's as could be mustered. Southern Westchester departments gathered as many as they could and loaded them on Eastchester Rescue 5. I don't know who else was involved, but I know that my father responded to Brooklyn on R-5.
Just a historocal tidbit

First, let me say, I am not commenting on this specific case, rather in generalities which have a connection to this case.
Medical Examiner determinations are very different from legal/police definitions.
Medical Examiners generally have five classifications (there is a sixth in New York City).
Natural
Suicide
Homicide
Accident
Undetermined (Rarely used when none of four above can truly be determined, despite all best efforts)
(NYC Only: Complication of Therapeutic or Diagnostic Procedures)
Homicide from a Medical Examiners perspective means ‘‘occurs when death results from...’’ an injury or poisoning or
from ‘‘...a volitional act committed by another person to cause fear, harm, or death. Intent to cause death is a common element but is not required for classification as homicide.’’ It merely means the death was caused by another person. Not all deaths caused by another person meet the legal/penal law definition of homicide. Here is the perfect example. A guy breaks into your house and you shoot him dead. The Medical Examiner classification for that is homicide, as it was caused by another person (you). However, from a legal perspective, you had the law on you side and you committed no legal violation whatsoever. The two areas are often conflated, but they are essentially only tangentially related. Another interesting exception exists with DWI fatalities. But that's another story.

You've left out the 3 that are Stamford's real claim to fame and most informative and important shows on TV ...The Maury show, The Steve Wilkos show and The Jerry Springer show!!!

These devices are good, but prone to damage from vandalism and lack of maintenance. I've seen more than a few damaged by heavy snow thrown by plows. Years ago we used to use a system where we painted a reflective yellow ring about 6" wide on the telephone poles on either side of the hydrant at eye level when driving the rigs (roughly 6-7 ft from the ground). As you turned into a street and approached the incident you would look at the telephone poles. If the hydrant was on the same side of the street as the poles a line was painted on each pole facing downward from the ring, if it was on the opposite side the line faced upwards and if the hydrant lie in between poles that crossed the street the line was placed on each pole in the appropriate direction of the approach. Many of the markings are still visible and we are planning to redo them once spring arrives.
The benefit of this simple system is that snow, even plowed snow piles, bushes, trees and parked cars rarely if ever obscure the markings and maintenance is nothing more than a few hours and the cost of a gallon of paint to touch up the markings every few of years.
Below is a rough (really rough) drawing to illustrate:

Oh thank goodness. I don't know what we'd do without it........
**All future references to a "mini-bar" should refer to a small refrigerator filled with a variety of booze in a hotel room

KME is developing a completely new cab for FDNY, and their are two currently on the line. One for a prototype, and one for crash testing. KME has the ability to deliver on this contract and has already invested a lot into it. There is a lot of frustration and speculation going on in various circles because there are a lot of engines that need replacing, but once the prototype is approved in the next few weeks, deliveries will start and go quite quickly. I don't think FDNY or KME wants to rush through the process, and is very exacting throughout the process. They also want this to be the safest cab yet, hence one prototype being sent out for crash testing, which wasn't in the contract, but KME insisted on it, especially being that it is a new cab and a split tilt one at that. However, both sides understand their are engines overdue for replacement.
The final drawings will not be signed off on by FDNY until the prototype is completed and evaluated. When you are ordering 92 engines, you want things done right the first time, and not have major flaws to correct one every piece delivered due to a design error or overlook. A lot rides on them getting it right the first time with 92 Engines to build. FDNY loves Seagrave and they've done a ton of good by the city, and FDNY is going to put KME through the ringer. They want an EXACT twin to Seagrave's product, but can not step on any of Seagrave or Ferrara patents.
Late Fall 2013 was the TENTATIVE date when the contract was officially signed less then a year ago in January 2013. You must also consider other factors, like the component vendors (pump, engine, transmission, buttons, dials, gauges, etc) providing KME with their product in a timely manner. FDNY has had several issues with Seagrave and other vendor orders as well in the past, so a delay would be nothing new or isolated to only KME. Again, this is a brand new custom designed chassis for FDNY.
BTW, the KME Severe Service Predator was custom designed for the Los Angeles County FD, one of the largest fire departments in the country and uses exclusively KME Engines and Ladders. In 2006, they filled one order for 96 Engines and 8 tillered quints, and have delivered numerous pieces of apparatus in the past several years. This FDNY order isn't their first rodeo, and they have the capacity to mass produce..

There are volunteer rigs in our county that run about 30 calls per year (maybe 1st due at a fire every 3 to 5 years). They last 25 years, thats 750 calls in the vehicles lifetime.
There are FDNY rigs that do 5,000+ calls per year, thats 50,000+ calls and who knows how many fires. The FDNY rig does more calls in 2 months than the volunteer rig above does in its lifetime.
You can not compare the two.
Better quality - Really?
Better features - maybe, but are they needed to get the job done?
Better condition - yes, except for the flat spots in the tires from sitting so long

Photo courtesy of FDNY Emerald Society Facebook Page.

Photo courtesy of R4 Facebook Page.

First of all its a Clean Harbors truck, so you know its going to be a nightmare sorting through all the different products you're going to have inside. But it should be run the same way any other HAZMAT call runs, use the 8-Step Process:
1. Site Management and Control - Isolate the area, evacuate anyone nearby, set up some initial zones based on an unknown product, since this is a Clean Harbors truck and is likely a collection of various HAZMATs picked up from locations all over the place. Start ICS and make sure you have an IC and a Safety Officer. In CT we're also going to call the Dept. of Energy and Environmental Protection as required by state statute, they'll send one or two of their Emergency Response Coordinators out to assist. Regional (or in NY's case, County) HAZMAT team also added and EMS for standby.
2. Identify Product - The placards are only telling me so much. We're going to need some kind of paperwork on the products involved. If the leak isn't all over the place, we can likely send someone into the cab to get some shipping papers. If not, remember we're dealing with Clean Harbors here, not Crazy Joe's Overnight Waste Removal and Handyman Services. Its a HUGE environmental company with some professional management staff, and I wouldn't be totally surprised if they had an electronic database that will tell me exactly what's supposed to be inside that truck. Obviously we're going to trust but verify, but it will give me a starting point to get my research guys on.
3. Hazard and Risk Evaluation - Sure, the placards look scary, but realistically what states of matter am I dealing with? What's the hazard to my personnel if I send them in there? What are the exposure limits, etc?
4. PPE and Equipment - Based on the info from 2 and 3, I'm going to confer with my HAZMAT guys to determine what the right suit is to wear. Say it with me: NOT EVERY HAZMAT CALL REQUIRES LEVEL A!!!! Our team uses the HAZMATIQ system in our region, so based on the chemical name the "playbook" we use tells us what our PPE should be for our mission posture, either "Rescue" or "Plumbing," and what the metering package is that's relevant for that/those products. It will also lay out the "red light" meters, ones that, if they go off, indicate there's something unexpected happening or something we haven't accounted for in our plan. It really simplifies the process and cuts back on a lot of the chemistry lessons we need to give non-HAZMAT geek Chiefs and ICs on scene. Based on the video these guys are in turnouts and SCBA and some of the guys were in the Lion or Blauer suits with the Nomex outer shell so its probably pretty safe to assume the flammables were really their main concern, along with the respiratory hazards that we almost always protect ourselves from.
Most likely we're bringing in pH and F paper to ensure its not a corrosive atmosphere before we bring in the expensive toys, then a 4-gas, PID, Drager Chipset if you can narrow things down, maybe a First Defender or other Raman Spectroscopy device if you're really coming up with nothing at all (but only if you're sure its not a flammable)
5. Information Management and Resource Coordination - Do I have my ICS set up to make sure the right people are running the right operations? Do I have all the personnel and equipment I'm going to need for this operation? If not, who am I calling to get them? Do I have a RIT/Backup team in place? Am I going to need a forklift and/or jack for moving some of these drums?
6 - Implement Response Objectives - Now that we have ourselves organized and know what we're dealing with, lets go in and start moving some drums. Sort them out, figure out what's leaking and how to stop it. If we can't stop it, lets over-pack it and let the cleanup company get it the hell out of my district. But remember, we can't do anything until we have #7 at least set up first!
7 - Decontamination - Clean up the guys, the gear and the other drums that weren't leaking but have some product on them. Assuming the product wasn't that "Dangerous When Wet" one, we're probably just talking about soap and water, but again its based off what my research came back in steps 2/3.
8 - Termination - Brief everyone on short/long term symptoms of exposure, quick hotwash of what went well and what we can improve on. Start taking up and handing off the scene to the cleanup company (who will probably just end up being Clean Harbors again anyway.)

Recall about 20 years ago, a 'scumbag drug dealer' tried to run over and kill a Mt Vernon cop, and was shot and handcuffed and left in the road. EMS arrived and either directed themselves or were directed by PD to the officer with the knee injury. The dirt bag dealer eventually arrived at the ED, cuffed. Per tesitmony, there were (I have forgotten the #. 12?) cops in the ED and none responded to the MD's request to remove the handcuffs to allow treatment. Thank god the cop-attempted murdering dirtbag bled to death.
WRONG
Turns out he was a West Med Center neonatal surgeon trying to visit his girlfriend and he made a wrong turn off the BRP. His stopping and U-turning on a deserted commercial street attracted the attention of two narcs, in a cadilace and with much facial hair (Point being, the thinking is he did not think they were cops). They tried to stop him and he fled, striking the knee-injured officer. The Doctor was promptly shot to death. The upshot is that the inevitalbe suit was filed and won by the plaintiff. MV I believe actually had to borrow $$ to pay as it exceeded their city insurance max payout.
I appologize to the one member of the EMS crew I know is still doin' the job for dredging this incident up. But I thought it was appropriate for this discussion that no matter how clear the picture is at the time, things are not what they may appear to be. I especially want to express respect for the job of the LEO, and mean no ill intent in bringing up what is surely a painful memory for them.
We are not robots with no feelings and emotions. The job is not always easy. Treat every patient as a human being or don't treat human beings.
After over 25 years of 2000 calls a year and I am not in the unfortunate mindset of the poster above. Please, when my sister, the fully employed 20+ year tax paying paralegal and occasional heroin user OD's, please send another care-giver.

I thought thats what the Judge wanted in the FDNY, 8 year old girls.

My 12 year old daughter runs that far in school for fitness testing.
In 8 minutes.
Just throwing that out there.

The academy loses 10% as a general rule. Take a class of full of candidates who are MUCH older and in poorer physical condition, add a lot of people who couldn't get on because they didn't meet the qualifications 14 years ago and you have trouble. Who's surprised at the drop out rate?
On top of that you have EMS promotees who have a job to go back to if they don't feel the academy is working out for them. I'm not taking a shot at EMS promotees by the way, I work with a bunch and they're good.
2 of 20 open competitive candidates failing is in line with the 10% drop.
Topping off everything is the rhetoric from FIREFIGHTER Coombs. Academy instructors are a hard working lot who, I can assure you, do not single out anyone for anything other than their abilities as candidates. If candidates are failing out of the academy it is because they're not fit for this job and the academy is doing its part to protect people who don't belong from entering a dangerous job and also protecting those of us who work here by insuring that we are surrounded by similarly capable firemen.
If only groups like the Vulcan's would advocate for improved preparation and quality of candidates instead of making excuses for those who can't hack it. When they do this, they undermine and short-change the achievements of those who gave it their all and made it through.

Due to the Federal Shut Down. FEMA has cancelled all storms.

I agree with x635. Addiction is horrible and dying is certainly not the answer. The 21 year old who shoots up most likely doesn't have the intentions of OD'ing. However, should he or she OD, having nasal narcan can get that person back under bls care while ALS is enroute. This was an excellent post, but too see such pathetic ignorance is disgusting.

You really can't go down this road, once begun where does it stop. Should we stop treating cancer patients, how about not resus anyone over 80, or how about 75. No, better as health care providers to treat everyone. Lfie is presious, some people do turn thier life completly around and become "useful members of society.

Yes, there is a valve.
I'll answer your questions in the order you've got listed.
1. The top three are flexible hard suction, for drafting. That's why they're stored higher up, in the less accessible position. The bottom, smaller length isn't really suction. We CALL it soft suction, but it isn't rigid. It's is our go to hydrant connection, at least here in the Bronx and the areas of Manhattan I'm familiar with. It's 10' long and is flexible and foldable. It's easy and quick for the engine chauffeur to hook up alone. Once the hydrant is open, that 4" diameter length will expand to maintain its shape regardless of how it's bent.
2. During high pressure ops, the chauffeur will use either the officer side discharge or the rear, whichever is more conducive to stretching to the Siamese. Never on the panel side, there is no HP discharge there.
3. This was answered, but again, it's just a meter showing the position of the valve. I find them to be useless. What does it matter what position the valve is in? You have the pressure gauge and the flow meter and the numbers they show are what determine whether you have to gate down or open up......or up the master on the pro-pressure governor.

10 replies......6 about lights......ugh. Guess what lights do? NOTHING! Blue. Green, pink.....2 of them14 of them, makes no difference.
Now, to respond to the very good question that matters:
Laautze gave a good answer. I'll just expand a bit. All standard FDNY engines have a 2 stage pump with a transfer valve. We operate in volume as standard practice. This means that the impellers operate in parallel and produce 50psi at idle. When the valve is switched to pressure, the impellers operate in series, one after the other. At idle, the pump generates 100psi(about). All engines are capable of pumping at high pressure (excess of 250psi) however with each additional stage the upper limit is raised and the engine doesn't have to work as hard. Additionally, engines assigned as high pressure units are outfitted with the discharges painted in white. They are a heavier build. They are meant to be mated to high pressure hose, red in color with white fittings. This hose also allows for a tether to be attached. The tethered line must be tied off to the engine and the standpipe Siamese. A 50' safety zone must be established. This is why there are no HP discharges on the pump panel side. Only a chief officer can order high pressure operations.

(Ret) FDNY Battalion Chief Salka's response:
http://mobile.firehouse.com/blog/11152215/john-salka-reacts-to-boston-globe-article-on-fire-department-staffing

Pretty fitting here I think......

Do you recognize this man? Do you know his name?

Lots of people know he’s an actor, and that his name is Steve Buscemi.

What very few people realize is that he was once one of New York’s Bravest.

In 1976 Steve Buscemi took the FDNY civil service test when he was just 18 years old. In 1980 Steve Buscemi became a New York City Firefighter.

For four years, Buscemi served on one of FDNY's busiest, Engine Co. 55 in Manhattan's Little Italy. He later left the fire service to become a successful actor, writer and director.

After 9/11/2001... Brother Buscemi returned to FDNY Engine 55.

On September 12, 2001 and for several days following Brother Steve worked 12-hour shifts alongside other firefighters digging and sifting through the rubble from the World Trade Center looking for survivors.

Very few photographs and no interviews exist because he declined them. He wasn't there for the publicity.

In 2003 he also gave a speech at a union rally supporting higher wages for firefighters and to stop fire houses from closing. He got arrested along with other firefighters.

Also not very well known is that in 2012 Brother Buscemi showed up in Breezy Point, NY and quietly assisted in the clean-up efforts of the damage and mass destruction left by Super Storm Sandy.

Once a brother, always a brother!

Just so we're clear… this guy is a Badass !!!

Tip of the helmet Brother Steve!

Jonathan Lusk
Publisher ~ Brotherhood of Fire
Captain ~ Fresno Fire, CA ~ E18C

“Brotherhood Strong”

not even the stop sign was safe from TL57

Great topic Brian, I often heard the talk of the 'Good Old Days" when I was at the firehouse as a pup with my dad, watching, listening and seeing how the guys went about carrying out serving their community and always having each others backs no matter the situation. I joined my department in 1982, although I was there long before that with my dad and really enjoyed "hanging out" at the station and listening to the stories of the Big ones that occured in town and neighboring towns, the jokes played on one another, how so and so got into trouble with the Chief, the key was I was listening, not opening my mouth as a 18 year old kid that just joined even though my dad was one of the Chiefs. I was taught by watching and learning to how to respect the fire service by a band of brothers that seemed to do everything together, the firehouse was the hub of the community and a gathering place. Well sadly it surely is not that way, one night not long ago, a few of us that have been around for awhile were now the ones telling stories that we had gained during our service time and I made a comment about the "good old days" and much to my dismay the President at the time made a remark that appalled me to no end, this is what came out of the mouth, "Forget those days, they are long gone", summed it up for me right there. Am I as active as I once was, NO!, Do I have the drive I once had, NO!, can I do what I could do when I was 18 or 19, NO! I've put in 32 years into the emergency services both as a volunteer and as a career and still have it in my blood and desire to make my department the best department it can be but my words often go unheard, often ignored to the younger members that couldn't tell you who the first fire Chief was, hell they couldn't tell you who the Chief was in 2000, or even know that someone like my dad who still visits the fire station every day was even a Fire Chief, or that he is nearing 60 years as a member, unless they read it on one of the plaques at the station. I will say this, if we forget how we got here then we might as well close the doors, forgetting the past or not even wanting to know it is a travesty

during my original cert class we breezed over the topic with a few slides on a power point. It wasn't until I started working for pay in EMS that I actually learned how to write one. In the FDNY EMS academy you have a lecture to familiarize you with the paper acr (when I went through at least, all boroughs are using tablets now except for the Bx) and after each scenario you would have to write up a pcr, which would then be reviewed and critiqued. I had to do a paper pcr for a RMA the other day with my FD, and it was a little confusing because I hadn't filled out one of our paper pcrs in years.