SECTMB

Sarcasm aside, I used the term lottery rather than test or exam because if you are drawing from your membership they are already in your system, not applying from outside your system. You could of course limit participation in the lottery to interior FF but how else does everyone get a fair shot if you have many more members than available slots to fill? You open up a bigger can of worms by adjusting the lottery (extra credit toward selection) based on seniority or higher levels of training since everyone will be required to go through the fire academy successfully regardless of past experience. Keep an engine as a volunteer company and you're not shutting out your membership or the spirit of volunteerism in your community. You are just ensuring that your community is well protected. The "some people" comment is because I find a lot of posts that are less constructive suggestion and too much 'I know best'. In Westchester the diversity in the make up of the fire service can be extreme. I have been on departments where the hospital was 5 minutes away and all our district had hydrants to other departments where the hospital was 30 minutes away and there were no hydrants. Then factor in population density and types of structures and commercial business to farming, land locked vs. River or Sound and Westchester offers a very diverse playing field and one departments unique circumstances can not necessarily be appreciated by anothers. And, I find that many, not all, of the paid guys posts sometimes come with a condescending tone toward volunteers. That's my impression. Too much criticism and not enough constructive suggestion. This post got its legs because someone felt it necessary to point out that the person behind the wheel was a volunteer, not a career and it was so important for the world to know that. Really, what was the point to that? Are all those youtube videos of crashing big paid department rigs all photo shopped? Paid or volunteer, accidents happen and each accident should be evaluated on its own merits as to the cause and the presumption that the biggest contributing factor to the accident was the firefighters level of compensation shouldn't really be a factor.

Oh lets just put this to rest once and for all. The solution is eliminate all volunteer departments and go career. Create a list from the volunteer ranks of those who wish to become career members, hold a lottery and the selected members will attend the fire academy, graduate and become career members of their formerly volunteer departments. Adjust the local property tax rate or create a new tax category to pay for it and everyone will be happy, except the taxpayer. But, its not important if it's a financial burden to the populace, what is important is that some people know what's best for everyone and we should listen to them.

I'm not surprised that accidents involving volunteers greatly outnumber paid. Volunteer firefighters greatly outnumber paid so of course the incidences would be correspondingly higher. This was just another lame attempt to create animosity between the the vols and paid. Poor judgement behind the wheel is a reflection of the individual regardless of compensation.

Union backing of politicians does mean everything. The teachers unions just spend more money on their politicians. As the saying goes, "you get what you pay for" and the teachers unions are willing to pay.

I was simply re-stating what one of my local outlets reported in a quicky TV news story. And a 'Paramedic Rescue' down here is the equivalent of a 'Paramedic Ambulance' up there, not to be confused with something like FDNY Rescue 3. And why are you getting so worked up about it? I made the post as to the relevance of how municipal budgets are affecting the emergency services everywhere and I did not think that much more in depth reporting and fact checking was necessary to establish that municipal services continue to be affected by budget shortfalls. So when somebody tells you how the economy is recovering, think about these recent incidents of cut backs, lay-offs and re-assignments that are continuing to be implemented due to our local, regional and national economy. On tonights news, the Vero Beach Police are eliminating a vacant Assistant Chief's position and demoting three Lieuts to Sergeants, three Sergeants to Corporal and the three Corporals to patrol officers, all with corresponding pay adjustments and all to save...............$190,000.00 per year. That's how bad some of the municipal budgets are down here that they would go to such measures to save $190K. St. Lucie made similar adjustments previously. This move is not without resistance and the point has been made that anticipated OT will offset the savings. But perhaps someone with more time can fact check this as I don't have the time to conduct in person interviews with all the parties that have made statement through the public media outlets.

Palm Beach County is reducing its paramedic ambulance crews from 3 to 2 if the third member is a replacement and requires overtime to fill in the position. Their budget has been hit hard these last few years as property values have declined by up to 50%. While other public workers underwent a wage freeze the last several years, that option was not available due to the union contract. Accordingly, Palm Beach County Fire Rescue has not hired anyone in about two years and plans to eliminate about 110 positions, simply by not filling them, in order to deal with their budget. At this time, everyone involved, including the firefighters, are not anticipating a reduction in response times or service.

Down here is Florida, every, and I do mean every, major chain gas station has a propane swap cage. Also the Walgreens Pharmacy's, Home Depot and Lowes. Probably because BBQ's are going all year long. $24.00 to swap tanks.

John was a fine young man who was so proud to become a member of our company. He had a great deal of enthusiasm when he joined and made every effort to learn as much as he could to become a good firefighter. His eventual move to an EMS career is testament to his desire to make a difference in peoples lives when they needed it most. You've left us too soon John, Rest in Peace. Thomas Bassett Ex-Captain Ex-President Scarborough Engine Company, BMFD

At one time or another we have all been quilty of driving both our POV's and apparatus too fast. Well, most of us. Its something that can be self policed and I have found that to be an effective tool. I have chastised members of my company and been called out myself. One memorable incident I recall, I pulled the engine onto the apron, traffic on our tree lined, two lane street (no shoulders) stopped for us to access, then from up the hill, around the bend comes one of our members, fast, too fast. I am waiting for the impact with the traffic that had stopped to allow us to proceed. Well he hits the brakes and does a 180 within the two lanes of the road and heads off in the opposite direction. I couldn't believe a catastrophe had been averted. His acknowledgement of his poor judgement earned him just a harsh rebuke. Another time a probationary fireman chose to cross the double lines, pass the stopped vehicles and pull in front of the engine as it accessed the main street. That move earned him a suspension, one of many that eventually led to his dismissal from the company. There are many more that could be related but the point is we can and should self police ourselves, and officers who witness careless or excessive speed driving can officially reprimand the offenders.

I work for MacKenzie, based in Stratford. We do painting, coatings, special floor systems, spray and intumescent fireproofing and spray insulation. The company started in 1919, has the same owners and we've done innumerable fire, police and jail facilities over the years. I've been with them for twenty five years and do my work now via the internet from Florida. If you can get a transfer to this new station, get it, it will be a great place to spend your career.

I prepared some bids for various trades on this project and we were successful in obtaining the work. Pleased to have the work, always enjoy being part of a new firehouse build. That said, when I first got the plans, I thought it was a new building for Yale. It is is big, it is architecturally imposing and it should serve the City of Norwalk, its firefighters and citizens for decades to come.

In our local Ossining area, before there were Hurst tools and cars with forgiving construction, there was Larry Monatgue of Montague's towing. He and his tow truck were as important as any other piece of emergency equipment at some accident scenes.

I think we will find varying procedures on a dept. by dept. basis, some making sense, others not. My primary department has four companies, including the ambulance. Each company qualifies its own drivers and aside from individual engine and ladder company members also being ambulance drivers there is no cross driver training between the engine and ladder companies. This is unfortunate as my engine, with multiple qualified drivers has often passed the other station which still has apparatus in it due to lack of drivers, and they've passed our house with the engine still inside. Cross training and qualification would help solve that but God forbid a company rely on someone from another company to get their rig out. When I joined another department, you were a probationary firefighter for a year. Regardless of my twenty some years of experience as a firefighter and line officer and that I learned to drive tractor trailers and heavy equipment before cars, probationary firefighters couldn't drive. There were numerous times I responded to the firehouse and waited and waited for a driver, sometimes no one showed. As a driver we are responsible for vehicle checks of the normal 'checking fluid', air pressures, etc. but scheduled maintenance, depending on the item, is either by the Village's DPW or the Manufacturer's dealer. Unscheduled maintenance or problems are ours to recognize and then have handled by either of the aforementioned. As a driver we are also responsible to know how to operate all our onboard systems; pump, compressor, generator, hurst tool. And, to know where all our tools and other appurtenances are located and their functions and uses as well. Anyone who drives any apparatus needs to know these things. Its not enough to get the truck to the scene if you can't operate it once you get there and you can't always assume someone will be there who can once you get there. Generally speaking, if a department has multiple apparatus at multiple firehouses, given that some equipment may be individually specific to that apparatus, how hard would it be to locate the bulk of the tools, etc. in a standardized manner so that any firefighter, not just the driver, knew that the cribbing was in the right side rear compartment, etc.? Standardization begets efficiency, efficiency begets proficiency and with increased proficiency you tend to get a better outcome.

I don't think Sullivan County has the density of Ladders as, say Westchester or the more urban/mixed counties. Given the distances they have to travel in the rural counties it may take a while to get aerial devices on location and in operation. That's my $0.02.

Just for the record, I would like to say that I don't think my statements should be considered center, left of, or right of when it comes to our politicians. I think they, or most of them anyway, bite the big one, are selfish, self serving, egotistical prima donnas who cater to whatever interest group will either get them re-elected or a cushy private sector job (quid pro quo) post public service. Remember, with politicians, its not just the next election, its what comes after public service and the ability to really cash in your time 'serving the public'. And yes, I think it unfair that some people paid into SS for their entire career and only collect for a short time, or not at all under certain circumstances, but that's part and parcel with a pyramid scheme and what makes them work, for a while. Imagine if that money were invested personally and privately. The result would be better and something to pass on to your family. Not the SS way though. And yes, almost every single municipality that enacts a private pension plan in lieu of SS has garnered better outcomes for their participants. It's the same for all our members of Congress who have their own retirement system separate from SS. They can, you can't. Is that fair? But if everyone was allowed to opt out of SS the pyramid would collapse, that's why they fight so furiously to prevent even a portion of someone's contributions to be privately placed. So guess what? the majority of workers who actually pay into the system will get what they can, when they can according to the politicians who will keep changing the rules while the game is being played.

The entire public pension system, including social security, is one giant ponzi / pyramid scheme. We put Bernie Madoff in jail, but we keep re-electing the politicians that run this government sanctioned three card monty. When social security was enacted it was a safety net. You worked and paid into the system till you retired at 65 and you were dead by 68. Today you pay into the system take early retirement at 62 and live to 82. On the public pension side, you work for 20 or 25 years and collect for another 30 or 40. It takes increasingly more people at the base of the pyramid to pay for those exiting at the top. Problem is that base is not expanding fast enough to fund those that want to leave. In the case of social security, the money is all gone, just a file cabinet with IOU's. The politicians have long ago spent the money and only new contributions fund the current retirees. Unfortunately there just aren't enough new and current contributors to fund those retirees so the system will run out of money until they either take more money from the current workforce, change the distribution formula for the retirees or some of both. On the State side, the money is actually there, though most funds are underfunded. Its great that Mr. DiNapoli has billions of dollars invested but that doesn't mean the plan is not underfunded to meet it stated goals. Its not really a problem for NYS retirees since their benefits are guaranteed by the State constitution. If there's not enough money, taxes are simply raised to make up any short fall. So when the plans guarantee a specific payout and the investment return is not sufficient to cover it, they simply raise taxes. Yes, you are paying higher taxes to fund your own plan, at least until you retire and move to a state that does not have a state income tax. I don't have a horse in this race, I'll long be dust before it hits the fan and I leave no one behind. But it will one day implode itself unless changes are made and all the 'class warfare', 're-distribution of wealth' bull isn't going to change it. Only honest, well thought out changes will. If we only had a few politicians with just a hint of the brain power that was in the founding fathers that got us this far before we screwed it all up.

I have often wondered why our electric and gas utilities don't have vehicles with red lights and sirens to respond to true emergency situations. I know a lot of people will say that there sometimes isn't that much of a time difference by using the lights and siren, but if you need a gas shut off or electrical shut down and that utility worker is crossing the County to get to you, it can make a difference. How may times are you monitoring and hear it will be thirty minutes for the utility worker. If we need that utility worker to facilitate our intervention in the emergency shouldn't they be afforded the opportunity to respond accordingly like any other mutual aid unit.

Don't be so quick to make it an all or nothing approach. Here in Palm Beach County, and for that matter in much of Florida, the fire service is provided on a County wide basis although the larger cities maintain their own departments. Palm Beach, West Palm Beach among others have separate departments from the county. Some cities have recently meerged their independent departments into the County however. One was Lake Worth which merged both its Fire and Police into the County departments in order to save money. My village is served by four Palm Beach County stations each of which house a paremedic 'rescue' (Ambulance), engine and brush truck. A neighboring station just outside my village maintains a 'tanker', they call them tenders down here, and other stations house ladder trucks and other specialized apparatus. The County response area has everything from rural farms to urban high rises, factories, industrial, anything and everything to concern the fire service. And, while the County is a paid department, they also maintain a volunteer battalion as well. There are examples of consolidation everywhere if you look for them and many include paid and volunteer companies working together. You just have to cut through the bull and maybe that can happen with the next generation of volunteers once the current old timers are replaced.

I just thought I would chime in re: Bnechis. While we may not always agree, I always value an alternate opinion, especially one based on a wealth of education and experience. I often will check out a topic because I see he has posted on it. The fire service, both locally and nationally is riddled with important issues affecting our delivery of services, not the least of which is manpower. Maybe someday the information and ideas exchanged and debated on this site will provide some practical solutions that get implemented for the benefit of the fire service and therefore the benefit of the citizens we serve.

Aside from jumpers or person making a statement the most recent press about the bridge concerns its replacement. Does it bother anyone else that the bridge is described as falling apart at age 50 while so many other bridges, such as the GW, Brooklyn, Golden Gate, etc, etc. which are much older, are not considered falling apart and not requiring the expense of billions of dollars to replace them. I hope that this time, they design a proper structure for well into the future. 30 years ago, one of the partners at Robert Martin, which had the big office park in Elmsford thought it would be a good idea to have an elevated monorail from Rockland to Westchester with branches to all the 'Golden Mile' office parks, a la Disney World. The train to the plane at JFK takes you from the outlying parking areas to each terminal, the monorail in Vegas takes you to many locations. Why not from parking areas in Rockland to the greater White Plains office parks and the White Plains train station. I think connecting to the Tarrytown train station with be impossible. Whatever they do, I just hope they plan for the next 50 or more years. Anyway, its just money. If you're going to spend 10 Billion, why not spend 15 Billion?

Its a wonderful form of double dipping. The sheriffs departments down here in Florida are filled with 20 and out NY City and environs cops putting in another 20 so they can draw two pensions before they're even eligible for social security. The job doesn't pay as well as up North, but with local salary, the immediate pension from NY and generally lower cost of living, its great for those who have been able to take advantage of it. Some older gents where discussing who had it best down here, retired uniformed services or the teachers from NY. I think I straightened them out. The retired BOE school custodians. That's the ticket.

PRICELESS

Unless you want to keep your head in the sand and adhere to some strict ideology, you have to see that the pension benefits allotted to prior generations of civil service employees are no longer sustainable in today's economic climate. And, if we're going to be honest about it, those pension benefits were justified in order to attract persons into civil service as, then, civil service compensation was notably less than private sector compensation. In the last 40 years however, civil service compensation has in many instances, increased to match or even exceed private sector compensation. We now have civil service employees retiring with pensions twice the national average of private sector compensation after 20 or 25 years of service. That's persons in their mid 40's to 50 eligible to immediately receive pensions of anywhere from $50K to $100K annually for possibly another 30 years. Essentially, we are paying our civil service employees twice, once for 20 or 25 years of active service and again for 30 or more years in retirement. Look at the numbers for pension expenses, up 500 or 600 percent within the last decade and expected to increase exponentially into the future, if not reformed. Unsustainable is the term being used and it is appropriate. It now affects municipal budgets which cut back on their civil service employees in order to meet their budgets. Five man engine companies get reduced to four, then three, then two and response protocols are re-written to accommodate the lack of personnel. We do need a new tier which addresses the new and future economic reality. But any new tier should include the appropriate benefits to protect the life and health of those covered by it. And I have to disagree with the statement that DiNapoli has nothing to gain from this issue. DiNapoli has consistently issued reports and opinions contradictory or contrary to independent audits and analysis of these issue. DiNapoli is just another politician with the next election and/or higher office in mind and he is just pandering to a significant voting block. The proposed new tier may not take effect for years, but the political effect is immediate.

Riding the rear step or up in the hose bed putting on your gear while the truck was responding. Not 'your' gear, the gear in the racks mounted on the truck for everyone, first come first served. Canvas coats, rubber boots, poly helmets, quickly replaced, personally, with nomex coat, bunkers, gloves and leather cairns new yorker helmet. Those elephant airpack hoses that pinched off when you crawled through a window and cut off your air. The manual transmission 1948 open cab, no doors engine that had to be double clutched and you'd get passed by civilian cars if you had more than one lane of travel. Our new engine in 1974 with the first diesel automatic in the department. The end of civilians passing us while responding. 2-1/2" hose replaced with state of the art 3", 1-1/2" attack lines replaced with 1-3/4". Plectrons in the house, sirens and horns for outside. Motorola Minitor pagers only if you bought one for yourself. One portable radio per truck, two frequencies, 46.14 and 46.26 Wood ground, roof and attic ladders. Blue 'Kojack' light for your POV. Having wig-wags before the PD on my POV. No County fire training facility. Being one of the first five members of your department to become one those new EMTs. Tower ladders, or elevated platforms, were very rare. Getting in on the 'mini-pumper' craze with an underpowered, overloaded, 4 wheel drive that sank to the axles first time off road. But, after 40 years, helping your neighbors and those visiting your community, in their time of need, never gets old.

According to the brief story, both he and his wife sued. I can only assume she sued for lack of consortium while he recovered from whatever injury he suffered. I wonder what value her suit put on his stud services. I thought injuries suffered while in performance of official duties were covered by workers compensation.