dwcfireman

I was not aware of that policy. Thank you for bringing it to my attention. The tone of your post actually made me feel good to know that there are people here who are trying to help.

Just to let everyone know where I'm coming from in my previous statements. I'm not from Westchester. I hail from upstate, where things are done much differently, and the school of thought is extremely different. The way I was brought up in the fire service is that everyone goes home safe. Hell, I had a firefighter here in Westchester who had to be transported to the hospital. As soon as I was released from the fire I went straight to WMC to make sure my firefighter was alright. I didn't even stop at the firehouse to make change out of my gear. My men come first. And as an officer I will never put myself first. If I feel I need to shut down an entire highway to operate on the scene, I will, and I will not hesitate. And if you've checked out the clientele on the highways, lately? Any police officer out there can tell you, because they pull these idiots over every day. If I have to inconvenience 10,000 drivers to make sure my 7 guys go home safe, well, it makes perfect sense to me.

Bite your tongue....I never misled anyone, and I didn't bring up any "misinformation." Apparently all you're concerned about is that I can't back it up. I've stated TWICE now that I know that there are legal ramifications if a firefighter or IC decides to go "too far," and TWICE I've stated that I don't know what the legal penalties are because I have not had that training. Other members of this forum have stated to use common sense and do what is applicable per situation, which I agree with. And I do understand that users on this site use some of this information as a learning tool. What I disagree with is people like you who just try to call people out and make a big stink of it. If you know the answer, then enlighten us! Otherwise, keep your comments to yourself. I was trying to help answer the question question the best I could and all you seem to want to do is pounce on the first person who answers the question "wrong." If you are so deeply concerned about it, read the NYS malfeasance laws that pertain to firefighters.

I may have gone a little overboard with my original statement, however, with this being an extremely hard law to enforce, mainly because it is so new, it is going to be a long time before drivers actually do get the message and move over. I don't know how local, county, or state law enforcement agencies plan to enforce it, especially since government agencies are trying to do more with less these days. Now let me explain why I originally stated, "ALL LANES CLOSED!" I was at a car accident on the Saw Mill River Parkways a few weeks ago. Each piece of apparatus was parked where it was supposed to be, there was a buffer lane for our personnel, and flares going back about 1/4 mile. Towards the end of the incident a second accident occurred in the left lane (the sole open lane) within 5 feet of the engine blocking the scene. That just goes to show that no matter how much you protect the scene you are never fully protected (see Stamford's engine that got hit last year). As far as the comments on LoHud, look at the few who nit-pick at the law and go as far as to quote specific pieces of it. One person states that the law doesn't require you to move over unless you can safely do so (understandable), but then further elates that you must practice "due regard" in a matter of speed. This commenter states that if you are safely driving at any speed that it is not necessary to slow down. Remember back in grade school when a few kids would act out of line and the whole class would get in trouble? This falls under the same category. If people want to be a**holes and try to convince others that it's okay to speed past an officer/firefighter/EMT on the side of the road, then they are spoiling it for the rest of the drivers out there. Besides, if a road is shut down because of an emergency, how is it different from a road being shut down for construction? People still find their way to work, school, etc. And for the police officers out there, I realize how difficult your job is, and how dangerous it is to be on the side of the highway by yourself. But safety is the name of the game. If you want to close all three lanes of the Cross County, that's your prerogative. If you want to pull some over in the middle of rush hour traffic with no back-up, that's your call. I'm not going to argue with anyone as to how they want to deal with certain scenarios. My original statement is just my opinion if I was the IC at an accident or vehicle fire. I'm not telling people how to do their jobs.

Sorry, INIT915, but I'm not familiar with what legal actions can be taken against a FF or IC held liable for damages. Like I said in my original post, I am not a lawyer, nor have I had the proper legal training behind this. I do not know what the liability laws specifically state about firefighters, and I'm not going to spew BS about something that I don't know. The original question in this forum was whether a FF or IC or a department can be held liable. I said "yes" with a few extra words. Therefore, I answered the question. Don't dissect an answer because you don't like the way it's worded.

After reading some of the comments on LoHud, I'm convinced as a fire officer, and a human being, that any idiot with half a brain can apparently obtain a driver license and operate a motor vehicle. Well, I kind of knew that before, but I can confirm those beliefs now. If people feel they need to nit-pick the law, be ignorant of it, or just throw their common sense out the window, that's fine with me... I say that because an Incident Commander has the power to shut down roads if he/she feels it is necessary for the operation of their fire scene or for the safety of the troops. If drivers don't want to obey the law or find loop holes and ignore our safety needs, then they can find a new route to work. I will not take those chances out there, especially if I'm volunteering my time, getting out of bed at 2am in a drenching rain storm. Every call, any highway: ALL LANES CLOSED!

If I had to say, it sounds like a breakdown in communication between the IC and whoever was on the vent team. They were probably told to vent, but not how to vent. Some people will cut the roof off the house while others will go around and open a few windows. It's a problem of perception, and the only remedy is to specify your orders. Going back to the original question, I find it quite relieving that someone finally asked the question.. The simple answer is, YES, firefighters can be hold liable for action on the fire scene. From a legal standpoint, the person liable is the Incident Commander. Since the IC makes the decisions, he's the one who'll get in trouble, that is if the department throws him/her under the bus. As far as what legal actions or disciplinary measures would be taken upon that IC, I couldn't tell you (I'm not a lawyer). And it's a shame, as a fire officer I don't know all of the specifics. It's one of those things the state tends to leave out of Firefighter I, Officer I, etc. You would think that there would be some instruction on the matter. It was mentioned at the beginning of this thread that they teach the legality of the job for both police and EMS, so why not the fire side?

Hmmm....a police officer is being sued for doing his job? What a load of crap! I can understand that the Henry family is grieving, and how they think that excessive force was used. HOWEVER, PO Hess was being run down by a motor vehicle!!!!!! And to say the shooting was racially motivated? Give me a **CENSORED** break! This is the year 2011. Race (a) doesn't matter anymore, especially since "white" people are now a minority, and (b ) doesn't matter because the "victim" was over the legal limit to drive, a minor, and committing a felony by running down a police officer. Now, let me play Devil's advocate: What if Danroy, Jr. was white and PO Hess was black? Would Henry's family sue PO Hess because he was angry with white people? Or would they sue because a black officer killed an innocent white man under the extremely racially insensitive precept that white people are innocent? Please note, I am not trying to start a riot, I am not racist in any way/shape/form, and I'm not trying to be insensitive...Just step back and look at it from a different angle. What IF? And to take it a step further, why does the Henry family need $120 million to ease the grieving. Do they plan on building a memorial or statue made of diamond encrusted titanium? If the family can afford such a legal team to pursue this suit in federal court, I'm pretty sure they can afford the basics, like a grief counselor. Like money is the first thing a rich family needs...I know when my family grieves a keg only costs like $90. Or is that the redneck, simple way of life coming out of my mouth. Money can't replace a loved one. Obviously, if there was some wrong doing on Hess' part, then some damages should be rewarded. But there is no wrong doing on Hess' part, because he was the victim of an alcohol fueled crime scene instigated by many underage drinkers. PO Hess, if you read this, I'm on your side. Fight them for all they got!!!!

*PERSONAL OPINION* The E-One Titan ARFF vehicle is definitely not one of my favorite E-Ones. We had one here at HPN for a few years, and the truck was a piece of garbage. It was constantly out of service, parts were always breaking, and sometimes it wouldn't even pump! At one point you couldn't even open the driver side door from INSIDE the cab! The upgrade to the Oshkosh Strikers has definitely proven well for us. firedude, thanks for rockin' Airport 11 for you avatar. Looks Good!

BINGO! Since the chief has to make a determination in the cause, the fire must be put out. This is also covered by the NYS statute laws that a previous link takes you to. Regardless of the cause or size of the fire, if a fire department responds they must put the fire out (after all, that's what firefighters do, right?).

Why are firefighters carrying so much in their pockets? It makes your profile larger, weighs you down, and, if you end up inverted for whatever reason, everything just falls out! Besides, we have to get to the scene somehow, and I'm pretty sure that 99% of the tools we need are on those trucks.

As one of the HPN firefighters, I can definitely agree that our disaster drills are, well, disasters. But on the other hand without recurrent training holding these exercises we wouldn't be able to do the job when the time comes. Throughout this thread I've seen a lot of department bashing and extreme opinions. Yes, kudos to the FDNY and the awesome job they did. And, Yes, I'm sure many agencies are thoroughly ready enough to be able to handle at least an initial response to such a disaster. But let's face reality: No one is perfect, and no emergency service is perfect. For the people who boast how "awesome" their departments are, I have two words...KEEP TRAINING! It's the only way you'll ever be ready.

So, the year is 2011, right? With all the money that is out there for situational/operational readiness, why doesn't every fire department have at least one mobile computer with satellite internet, CAD, MDT systems, etc.? Honestly, with all of the technological advancements out there and how far we've come in just the last decade, why are we still relying on hard copies, or listing items in forums like this? I understand this thread is meant to help each other out, but not every firefighter, EMT, or chief is on this EMTBravo. Instead, why don't we take steps to move forward with technology and keeping that updated?

Ok...It seems like there are a lot of questions being raised about security at airports. To sum it up for you, security is necessary in all aspects so that the US and us Americans do not experience another 9/11. I know you all understand that, and I'm well aware that everybody is paying attention to the issues. HPN happens to be a great example of why higher security is needed. Being a commercial service airport, the obvious need for the TSA and screeners, never mind the presence of law enforcement, is necessary due to the volume of passengers boarding substantially large aircraft. But you have to remember that HPN is also a general aviation (GA) airport. There's roughly 400 based aircraft, including everything from small single engine aircraft, light helicopters, etc. all the way up to triple engine business jets. Since 9/11 there has been an extreme emphasis on the security of the nation's commercial air service, but it's just now that the program is kicking into full gear for the general aviation public. This is why pilots and owners of based aircraft need to have airport issued identification to gain access to the ramp to use their aircraft. Without delving into any specifics, airports nationwide are vamping up security on GA ramps and pushing those users to be as vigilant as possible. As for enthusiasts who like to sit and observe aircraft taking off and landing, you're really not supposed to be near the fence line. If you are seen near the fence line, WCPD will ask you to move along. If you do want to watch aircraft move about and do what they do, my suggestion is to use the observation deck on the third level of the airport terminal. It is a public viewing area that you can watch aircraft from at a safe and secure distance. Does it require parking in the garage and paying the ridiculously high rates? Yes, but there is no alternative to that. There is no place off site that you can just stop and watch aircraft take off and land, and anywhere near the fence is definitely not the place to do it. That includes being on public roads. Now, for the poster...I know it looks bad and gives photographers a bad rep, but come on! The idea of that image is to make you keep your eyes open for something that doesn't belong. There's a poster in my office that says "Complacency is Security's Worst Enemy" showing a man in a black trench coat and hat. The whole idea is to be vigilant and keep your eyes peeled for something out of the ordinary. This, too, is from the TSA, and the point they're getting across is just to be vigilant. "If you see something, say something" is the simplest of these slogans. And just a final note...I don't know about you, but I don't want to see another terror attack on US soil!

This is a department from near my hometown. The city of Canandaigua has been dealing with this issue for almost ten years now. Money always seems to be an issue, especially when it comes to funding the fire department. I don't entirely understand the situation now as I haven't lived up there in a few years. I want to say that there's also an engine out of the VA hospital which is located in the city. I may be wrong on that one, but I remember a long time ago the VA provided an engine to the city as a dual response (obviously with a lot of VA hospitals getting their budgets cut, I'm sure it's not there anymore).

Parking will always be an issue for every airport. Unfortunately, HPN has very limited parking, and the prices (which are set by the third-party operator) are ridiculous. Quite honestly, it's a dead subject to me because there is no immediate answer and we'll just end up arguing in circles.

Haha. I hate this issue with a passion. Where parking is limited, there is enough parking to accommodate our passengers. The overflow lot at the north end of the field helps alleviate the problem (and there is a free shuttle from that site which brings passengers to the terminal). It's definitely not the permanent solution. There have been many ideas thrown around about adding a new parking structure or parking alternatives near the airport, but the options are just not viable enough. There's also a lot of pressure from surrounding communities about traffic issues and the construction of said parking structures (unfortunately most of the airport business is politics). For those who don't know, AirCanada is no longer flying out of HPN. They were not profiting from the flight and pulled out at the beginning of July. Someone also mentioned a 757 coming into HPN...that was President Bush when he flew in a few years back. The plane barely fit and was only able to use Taxiway A at the north end. Our primary taxiways are 75 ft wide, and most of the secondaries are only 50 ft. Like I said before, HPN is too small to afford the space for 100 ft taxiways like JFK or LGA. Then again, HPN was never intended for large air carrier aircraft, which accounts for the heavy use of business jets and general aviation users. The current design allows for 737s, which we don't see many of. AirTran brings one in every once in a blue moon, but there are a few 737 business jets that regularly use our facility.

<br /><br /><br />Yes, you are correct in the CBP procedures for Canadian flights, and you are also correct in CBP's operation at Avitat. Thankfully, because there already is an office on site, it would take only minor alterations in the CBP's presence at HPN to make "true" international flights possible (ie CBP would have to establish an office and inspection checkpoint in the main terminal, which is currently impossible because simply there is no room). I actually work in the Airport Operations Department, and I can tell you that there are many changes and projects happening at HPN, all to benefit passengers and to make the airport run more efficiently. Unfortunately, due to many restrictions, it is extremely difficult to accomplish a long term goal with what we have and what's available to us. Some of the smaller goals we're working on involve making more space for passengers and concessions, increasing capacity loads on the airfield, and creating a safer environment on the airline ramp for employees and passengers alike. Small changes like these over time will eventually allow for larger aircraft, faster turn-arounds, and international flights. But, in the mean time, HPN is just a small reliever airport for the NYC airport system.

HPN can and does land and t/o 737's. It can handle the 757, but the wheel base is too large for most of the taxiways. As far as the runway extension, it's never gonna happen (sorry guys). There's too much to take into consideration, from federal aviation regulations, security regs, and EPA standards. Never mind that there's just no available space on the airfield (the field is only 730 acres). Although, the deck structure would be kinda cool to see. International flights can happen. CBP has a unit based at HPN located in the Avitat Hangar. Remember, AirCanada used to fly here. And for the people who complain about noise....this is one of the quietest airports in the nation. I'm not going to stop you from calling the noise complaint line, but it's an airport!!!!!!! Of course there's going to be noise!

Yes, you are correct that U97 is the gator. It used to have an EMS designation, but since there is a brush unit for it as well the county reassigned the designation as a utility. As for 63-U5, it is a special operations unit, however, the only thing it does now is tow the trailer for U97. The long term plan is to put MCI and rehab equipment in the vehicle, but the plan keeps changing as the district is looking at other options for apparatus.

This was NOT a structure fire. The compactor is not attached to the building at all (there is no feeding point from inside). The 10-75 was issued due to the proximity of the compactor to the building, and the fact that a 53' trailer was parked within two feet of the compactor as well. Mind you, this was also a day-time call, and the 10-75 was necessary to bring in enough people for the operation.

I come from upstate, where there are more brush fires and the fires are more intense. The difficulty of putting a forest fire is surmountable to that of putting out a structural fire. The manpower needed, water resources, apparatus, etc. Never mind the havoc and chaos that comes with any complex incident. The use of the master streams at this call happened to work out in Hawthorne's favor. Generally speaking, master streams do not work well in wooded areas. Trees often get in the way and prevent massive water flow. Hand lines work well, but as previously stated in HFD2198's post, they only stretch so far. I'm not saying don't use these resources, it's just that there is a time and place for them. Open fields are better suited for master streams, and hand lines for level-ground wooded areas close to the apparatus. Also remember that there are many other tools at a firefighter's disposal at wild fires. Rakes and shovels can be used to create small fire breaks against low-to-the-ground grass involvement, and larger fire breaks can be made by cutting down trees and larger vegetation (using chainsaws, bulldozers, etc.). The use of backpack tanks and water cans can go a long way, too. It may also be a good idea to use ATV's or qualified brush trucks or mini-attacks. As mentioned in several of the previous posts, yes, the presence of live power lines is a major hazard. Remember, though the power line is live, you can safely work around it. It is just like any other hazardous condition, and a perimeter needs to be set up around it before beginning/continuing work on the scene. Setting up that perimeter is crucial to firefighter safety and to the firefighting effort, because an unchecked wild fire, like the one in Hawthorne, can spread fast. In this case it spread quickly up the hill. Stopping a wild fire before it gets to that point requires less resources, never mind the fact that you are saving that much more property, or in a worse scenario, preventing major fire losses. But the number one thing that everyone needs to remember about wild fires (or any fire for that matter) is that you need people to put it out. If you know the fire is going to get away from you, or if it's already at that point, don't be afraid to call in extra resources. Let's put it into perspective: Would you try to extinguish a fully involved 2 1/2 story wood frame home with just an engine and a ladder? The key to any incident is having enough manpower to accomplish all tasks in your incident action plan. Not all fire departments are self-sufficient, and we all know how many people show up on a [volunteer] first-due at 1400 hours on a Wednesday. I'll reiterate; do not be afraid to call for more resources. Call in the extra staff and equipment early on, because you can always send them back if you don't need them.

At 5:48am on Saturday February 20th Hawthorne FD was dispatched to a fuild spill on 9a NB at County Police, Units Operating Car 2191, 2192, 2193 Eng 155 U-41, MPPD, County PD, Glens Towing. After the truck was taken away there was a major clean up because the truck was carrying garbage, to assist Glens Towing was Matthew Ortiz with his excavator. Here are some pictures........... Pictures were forwarded by HFD2198

said tractor trailer is a private contractor for the environmental department. it hauls de-icing fluid.

To clear up a few items... Airport Ops/ARFF has 3 minutes to get the first rig to the scene of an incident, 4 minutes for the second truck. Obviously the airfield isn't as large as most commercial airports, and response times on the field are fast. The 60-Control trunk radios in the rigs are the main means of communication with 60-Control, and it is the responsibility of the Duty Supervisor/Chief to hail 60-Control to declare an alert, which activates the airport emergency response plan. The Ops department is notified of emergencies via a few routes: the air traffic control tower has a direct line to the Ops department, pilots can notify Ops via the Unicom frequency or by telephone, or NY TRACON will call Ops via telephone. As for staffing, HPN has a minimal staffing of 4 firefighters (2 per rig) weekdays 0700-1900, and 3 firefighters during nights and weekends