dwcfireman

We have a saying at the airport: "Complacency is Security's Worst Nightmare." The same goes on the fire ground, and I can't agree more with this picture. When we have drills at the airport I shout for everyone to "dance" when I hear a PASS starting to go off. Like everyone has been saying, "Training, training, training!"

If you are flying this weekend, please contact your AIRLINE. Us airport ops guys have our work cut out for the next 24 hours! Stay safe everyone.

Thinking OUTSIDE the box.....I like it!

What I find easy (and it may be that I'm native to the area) are the numbering systems that Monroe County has (this is the greater Rochester, NY area). The system is based off battalion and department numbers, followed by apparatus type. The type, however, is not said as a word, rather a number: Quint - 0 Ladder - 1 Engines - 2 thru 4 Rescue/Foam Engine - 5 Squad/Light Rescue - 6 Utility/Light Rescue - 7 Rescue - 8 Ambulance - 9 The county has 5 battalions, so the apparatus number starts with the battalion number, followed by department. I'll use my home town of Honeoye Falls for the example: 560 is the number for the quint, where 5 is the battalion, six is the department, and 0 represents the apparatus type. Then the engines are 562 and 563, the squad 566, and the chief vehicle/utility is 567. **If the department has more than one station, the option is there to add the station number between FD number and the apparatus type (i.e. 4623, where the 2 represents Station 2). As for officer designations, it's somewhat similar, where you start with the battalion number, use the letter C, rank number, then department. The chief calls in as 5C-16. The city of Rochester has it's own numbering system separate from the county, where apparatus are simply called Engine 10 or Quint 6. They also harbor Rescues 1 thru 7 at the airport. County vehicles all begin with 8. The 5th Battalion Coordinators would then be Cars 815 and 825. And the county Haz-Mat truck is Haz-Mat 8. Ambulance corps' use the same county numbering system, and the ambulances are numbered using 4 digits (not for station number, rather the number of rigs). So my home town ambulances are 5619 and 5629, and the medic fly car is Medic 56. Ambulance officers also use the same system as fire officers, but the C is replaced with M (i.e. 5M-16). I know it seems confusing on paper, but it works smoothly in the field.

Going back a few years, I actually used to work with the men and women of the West Brighton Fire District. They work hard and do a great job. My affiliation with them was with the Monroe County 5th Battalion Water/Ice Rescue Team. We did a great job, and the were a vital component to the team (with this new decision from the town I really don't know what will happen as to the water rescue stuff). It's a shame to see this happen to a volunteer company. Volunteers carry so much pride in protecting their communities, it really saddens me to see a volunteer (or combination) department go under in this fashion.

When I used to volunteer upstate I got pulled over by a sheriff deputy while responding to an apartment fire with people trapped: Officer (as he approaches my window): "I hear you got a scanner in there." Me: "It's my pager." Officer: "What are you doing?" Me: "I'm going to a fire." Officer: "Where is the fire?" Me (pointing to the orange glow in the sky): "There."

For a call of an inbound aircraft with smoke in the cockpit: ARFF Unit: "Aircraft ###, confirm smoke in the cockpit." Aircraft: "### Confirming smoke in the cockpit." ARFF Unit: "Roger, awaiting your arrival." **30 seconds later** Aircraft: "Disregard, we turned it off."

Was this firefighter a truckee or engine man? Either way, my thoughts and prayers go out to him....but what happened? It seems a bit weird because the video shows him bailing and then an ensuing knock down. I'm just trying to put the chain of events together.

I really hate to be the "negative Nancy" here, and I know I'm going to get flak for this, but someone's got to say it: I do agree with everyone that this is great technology, especially for us firefighters who are IN SHAPE and have the ENDURANCE to continue working with a longer lasting bottle. With this I bring my point: This new, improved bottle is great for the firefighter who is in top physical condition, but a death trap for the firefighter who has had a few too many hot fudge sundaes in his life. My argument lies in the fact that the number one killer of firefighters is heart attacks. Most of us are out of shape. Period. A lot of us smoke, a lot of us drink; many of us are lazy, over worked, over stressed, etc. You get the point. Don't get me wrong, I completely agree that a smaller profile and a lighter pack that this new technology brings is great for us, However, for the "general" firefighter, this could make things worse. It doesn't matter how much clean air you can stick in a bottle. With today's 4.5 bottles there are some people who can make it last 40 minutes (firefighters who vigorously work out) and there are people who suck a bottle down in 15 minutes. Focusing on the latter half of the previous sentence, those who suck down a 30 minute bottle in 15 minutes, with the advantage of the 5.5 bottle and more air availability, are able to work longer in a fire. The down side of this is that these firefighters are now going to overwork themselves and put them in a situation where there life is at danger, not from the fire, but from themselves. Please do not take this on an attack on obese or out-of-shape firefighters. Nor am I attacking ay flaws that SCOTT may have overseen in their technological advances. I solely bring this up as a discussion point in the matter of firefighter safety.

I felt it at HPN. The tower said they shook for about 10 seconds. Everyone thought it was just a loud plane until the news broke. Apparently a bunch of control towers up and down the east coast evacuated, including JFK. The good news is that HPN was not affected and operated as normal. The bad news is the national airspace system shut down temporarily. Anyone flying today or tomorrow make sure you check with your airline to check up on your flight.

Haha. I think you're the only person I've ever heard that thinks the Ops bridge is a GOOD place to hide. And, trust me, it's no "Ivory Tower." If you go up there during the day the temperature control works fine. I worked nights for over 3 years, and I can tell you first hand that the AC works great in the dead of winter at 2am, and vice versa in the summer, never mind the constant construction that happens up there. Part of the temperature problem is being fixed in the terminal, though. If you notice the south public entrance is closed during the daytime. Each of the entrances is being renovated with new doors and air curtains to help curtail entering/exiting heat. We are unable to get larger AC units on the roof at this time because the current duct system cannot support the necessary airflow. As far as your "hiding" joke, unfortunately I have to take something like that seriously. The FAA and TSA are constantly combing over HPN. Plus, you can't tell when people are being serious or facetious when reading text on the internet, so don't get bummed out when people don't get your joke. firedude, as far as I know HPN is still receiving the necessary funds from the FAA to continue the projects that are currently underway. I'm sure the federal government will bone us when it comes time to reconstruct the ramp, relocate Taxiway A, and build our deicing facility.

firedude Does anybody know if the construction at HPN has been stoped due to budget issues? As one of the Operations Coordinators at the airport, I can tell you first hand that construction has not stopped. Nor does the airport have "budget issues." One project stopped in the terminal (the new Dunkin' Donuts) because none of the local DDs will supply the one at the airport (due to random political and personal BS). But there are plenty of other projects that continue. Currently we are redesigning the car rental lots to ease traffic congestion in front of the terminal, remodeling the restrooms on the second floor to make them much larger, and improving drainage and sewer systems around the airfield. Some of the projects that seem like they are halted have just recently been pushed back due to other issues than budgetary. Some of the airports systems need to be upgraded before construction can begin (i.e. the new deicing system, which will coincide with the ramp reconstruction and extension of the terminal to the ramp areas). calhobs As for someone who works there please tell me where this extra space is, I really need a new place to hide from my boss. They are doing some major consonstuction over the next 3-5 years, but this should of been done 5 years ago by time they are done I think it will still be tight in the terminal, I just hope they put in some new AC in terminal very soon they reallly need it. First of all, why would you announce that you need a new place to hide? And why are you insinuating that you already hide? YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE HIDING!!! And if I find you hiding I will flush you out and tell your supervisor because hiding on an airport is dangerous and against federal security regulations. As for the AC problem, we're working on it. We have a hundred other problems to take care of, and we'll get to it when we get there.

I noticed in several photos that firefighters did not have SCBA on (AT ALL) while actively on a hoseline, and one guy is on the roof with no SCBA and ISN"T WEARING A HELMET!!!!! Where is your safety officer and WHY wasn't this caught!?!?!?!? This type of behavior contributes to LODDs!

A few people in this post brought up drafting....I don't know what the FDNY SOP is for drafting, nor do I really understand why FDNY would draft with an engine. I was always under the belief that the marine untis drafted and supplied water to shore units (and relay to the scene if necessary). Could anyone shed some light on this for me?

The renovations at the airport are still in the beginning phases. First we're reconstructing parking lots to accommodate rental cars and meet security regulations, as well as alleviate traffic in front of the main terminal. The ramp will increase in size (eventually), and drastically, when a TWY A restructuring project happens. This won't be for a while, though. The runway does need to be replaced, and that will most likely start in 2013, along with a realignment of 11/29. As far as that parking garage in Armonk, your guess is as good as mine. We no longer have the E-One Titan. It was sold about three years ago after being replaced with the '07 Striker (The E-One was the old ARPT7). And, no, the spill cart doesn't count. The spill cart actually falls under the environmental department rather than ARFF. And an interesting little piece of information: ARPT11 is actually from the same batch of Strikers as the Port Authority's 1500s.

As someone who works in the Westchester County Airport Operations Department, I would like to throw my 2 cents in, as well as clarify some things. voltage1256: Is that indeed the official winglet? Or are they remaining with the current signature triangle winglet? I see that you are a pilot, and as one aviation professional to another, I'm going to teach you something new. The "signature" triangle winglet that you see on jetBlue's A320's is indeed a winglet. A winglet is an attachment to the wing tip to assist in the disruption of vortices that create uneven airflow around the ailerons (for those unfamiliar with the term, these are the flaps that control the roll of an aircraft). The E190 that jetBlue currently flies, and the new A321 series that they are purchasing, have blended wing tips, which is a wing tip that curves upward. I didn't know this before I worked at the airport. It's just an interesting point that I thought I could share. As far as the order goes, the A321 tends to be delivered with the blended wing. I don't see jetBlue changing that to a winglet. firedude: It's not just weight that determines whether or not it can use HPN's 6500ft runway. You are 100% correct. Officially Runway 16/34 (the main runway) is measured at 6548 feet. Typically commercial aircraft land at the aiming points (the large white boxes painted on the runway), and those are located 500 from the either end. So now we're looking at 6000 feet of runway. Thankfully turbine (jet) aircraft have thrust reversers, which assist in decelerating during landing, and the aircraft stop and exit the runway well before the end. This is where weight comes into play. dadbo46, you asked about the A321's weight. To break it down for you, the A320 has a maximum take-off weight of 170,000 lbs versus the A321 at 206,000 lbs (I know I switched from landing capabilities to take-off, just hang with me while I explain). With these weights, the A320 needs 6860 feet of runway to take off, whereas the A321 would need 8400 feet. The A320 is the largest aircraft servicing HPN at this time, and if it has a full passenger load then weight needs to be reduced elsewhere. That weight comes out of the fuel tanks. jetBlue cannot take off out of HPN with full fuel, which is why we don't have more popular flights, i.e. Las Vegas. Just by going off of take-off weights and the loads that jetBlue carries, I can tell you right now that we will never see the A321 fly commercially in and out of Westchester. Another issue with the runway, playing off the above information, is the weight that it can handle. The current runway design is not for heavy aircraft. RWY 16/34 takes a beating from every A320, B737, A319, etc that lands and takes off. There is a plan in place to redesign and rebuild the runway to accommodate the weights of these aircraft, but the new design still will not be able to withstand a landing from a A321. firedude: All this info is for the old A321 and not the new A321 which jetBlue ordered. Yes, the weights above are for the "old" A321, however, the weights for the new A321 will be much similar. Aircraft manufacturers don't tend to change much of a design if they intend to keep the "new and improved" design within the same family. firedude: HPN's widest taxiway which is only 60ft wide. Sorry, man, but I have to call you out on this one. Taxiway A is 75 feet wide full length, as is most of C and L, parts of K, and high-speed exit G. The rest of the primary taxiways are 50 feet wide. But you bring up an excellent point about the size of the aircraft. The main gear on the A321 are 55 feet apart! That means the aircraft is going into the grass if it tried to taxi along half the field. Mind you, HPN is designed for it's largest aircraft to be the Boeing 737 Classic (the 300, 400, and 500 series). The A320 is just a little bigger that the B735, so we're already pushing the limits that we can handle. You also mention the A321 is 146 feet long. Well, the A320 is 123 feet long, and I can tell you first hand that it barely fits on the gates. Granted, HPN will be undergoing major construction in the near future; increasing the size of the gates, increasing the size of the terminal, etc, but I will remind you of what I previously mentioned. The A321 cannot land or take off out of Westchester. Now, since this website is a forum for emergency services information, I'm going to explain the ARFF requirement and the effect it could have: Federal Aviation Regulation states that an ARFF index is determined by the longest commercial aircraft that lands at the airport, as long as it averages 5 or more landings per day in the busiest week of a 12 calendar month period. For Westchester that is ARFF Index B, aircraft 91 feet in length up to but not including 126 feet. Our determining aircraft is the A320, as mentioned before ate 123 feet long. At a minimum we are required to provide one vehicle that carries and applies a minimum of 500 lbs of a sodium-based dry chemical extinguishing agent, 1500 gallons of water, and a commensurate quantity of foam concentrate for 2 tanks of water. Current HPN has double this capacity, operating two Oshkosh Striker 1500's (if you've never seen one, look at firedude's avatar). Now, if the A321 were to service HPN to the point where we need to change the ARFF index, we would have to upgrade to Index C. But, alas, HPN already meets the standard for Index C. With two trucks we already provide the minimum; 500 lbs of a sodium-based dry chemical extinguishing agent, 3000 gallons of water, and a commensurate quantity of foam concentrate for 2 tanks of water. But what if one of the trucks breaks down? Our back-up is a 1987 P-19 with only 1000 gallons of water. So if we have one Striker and one P-19, we now only have 2500 gallons of water. Now the airport is out of standard, which will cause the airlines to change schedules and swap out aircraft, costing an insurmountable amount of money, until that second Striker is operational. People don't really ever think about it, but any little hiccup can cause the airline industry to spin out of control. mfc2257: Avionics will be similar and pilots can be certified across the model line... Even though the aircraft are extremely similar and are indeed members of the same family, current FAA regulations still require training and check rides for each aircraft type. That means a pilot would have to train and check out on the A318, 319, 320, and 321 individually. I'll leave you with the reminder that the FAA is a federal government agency, and 99% of the stuff they come up with will never make sense.

The C172 still may be a popular aircraft, however the Cirrus SR22 is making a bigger appearance these days. This is an aircraft with a few special items in it, too, and if firefighters don't know about them they could be in for a big surprise. The aircraft is made out of composite materials that splinter and shatter when cut with a saw, has airbags in the seat harnesses, and has a ballistic parachute system that can be utilized for severe inflight emergencies.

Federal Aviation Regulation FAR139 - Certification and Operations: Land Airports Serving Certain Air Carriers Specifically, 139.315 states the Index of the airport's operational needs for ARFF equipment, in which case Westchester is Index B. The aircraft that decides this for HPN is the Airbus A320, flown by jetBlue at 123' long. FAR 139.317 determines how many pieces of apparatus the airport needs and how much water, foam, and dry-chem the apparatus must carry. Technically, Westchester can remain open to air carrier/airline operations with one of our trucks, thus be capable of allowing a truck to respond off field if necessary. Even with the tactical capabilities of the trucks the airport is still limited to the fact that it only operates a fire brigade, similar to that at the Grasslands Reservation in Valhalla. Now let's put it this way: If the airport had all 3 vehicles in service at all times, HPN would meet the requirement for the next index up ©. If the airfield was capable of these operations (and it's not) we would see aircraft like the Boeing 757. The easiest way to this info is http://www.flightsimaviation.com/data/FARS/part_139.html , and Subpart D has all the information.

I completely agree with you. The Strikers are self-sufficient, water hauling, monsters with so many capabilities, it is a shame that they don't respond to more incidents off-field. And the airport is more than capable of sending at least one CFR apparatus off site. Note we have 2 Strikers, and we meet the FAA standard for HPN's ARFF index with just 1 truck. I would love to see more responses to off site incidents, unfortunately there's a bit of red tape in the way.

Can anyone confirm Airport 7 & 11 on scene? Not trying to call you out PFDRes47cue, it's just not the airport's internal policy to respond off-field (before anyone questions me on this, I'm ARPT11 chauffeur at night). But now you got me wondering because I saw you put them down in the IA, and I know how some policies get thrown out the door depending on certain situations.

antiquefirelt, great post. It's an excellent example of foregoing the can. With this said, I would like to take the opportunity to describe an incident where the can was all we needed: Called out for a water flow alarm in a commercial building, myself and two firefighters walk up the stairs to the second floor where the flow alarm is coming from. Going into the stairwell we had very little information. A scene size-up showed no signs of fire or damage to the building, and the only alarm on the panel was for a water flow on the second floor. Upon emerging from the stairwell we found a significant amount of water flowing down the hallway. Following it upstream we came across a light smoke condition, and came to an office door where the water and smoke was bellowing. We forced entry into the office where we encountered heavy smoke. Thankfully the cubicles acted as river banks, and we continued to follow the water back to a side room (on the #3 side, fourth floor). Inside this room we found a stack of computers that was burning, but contained by the sprinkler head above. The fire was quickly extinguished with the use of a single dry chem extinguisher. I tell this story not just to show an example of when the can is going to be effective, but also to reinforce that you need to take the correct extinguisher with you. Residential structures are mostly ordinary combustibles, and a water can is fine. Commercial offices tend to have a lot of computer equipment, so you may want to bring along the CO2 extinguisher or dry chem. Industrial structures get a little trickier, depending on what a particular business manufactures or the service(s) they provide. A dry chem extinguisher is a good choice, but you may also want to consider a class D (metal-X), for instance going into a welding shop, or a class K extinguisher for restaurants. But before you decide what to bring make sure you do a proper size-up. If you have fire blowing out multiple windows, leave the can on the truck. If you arrive with nothing showing, grab the appropriate can.

BINGO! I owe you a nice, cold "soda." I like the "fly-engine" idea, too. I don't think that will "fly" with the commissioners, but it sounds good.

I'm a member of this particular department as well, and I wasn't going to say anything before, but since the egg's been hatched...... There are many issues going on withing the department. It's nothing new, and it's no different than many other departments across the country. The volunteer fire/ems service is notorious for it's roller-coasting, and we are unfortunately at an extremely low point. It's sad. I know. Thankfully we have a mutual aid system that works, and I personally thank the department that covered us for that particular incident. Now, before you blast me for not actually giving you our side of the story, I regret to inform you that the interdepartmental issues at hand are not anyone else' business. If you happen to be a taxpayer of the district, I suggest talking with the commissioners. As for everyone else, I thank you for the opinions and your input throughout this thread. It will be taken into consideration to help solve our problems.

This is not just a local problem. Just about every firehouse and EMS station has this problem. Sometimes its difficult to pinpoint the culprit, other times you know exactly who left the mess. One solution that my department has undertaken is the installation of security cameras. There's a camera posted at every door and in every hallway. You can't hide. When I used to live upstate the problem was so bad that the officers simply locked the rec room and no one could use it. The latter was drastic, but it was necessary.

Best pager ever: Minitor II. I've had two of them over the years. Both dropped in several puddles, the toilet once (clean water), one dropped off a roof, had it run over by a car, and even went for a ride on the front bumper of my hometown's quint. They never died, never broke, and dried out fairly quickly. I just hope the Swissphones are just as durable.