dwcfireman

Bring her to the airport. I'll empty that tank just as fast as the old tanker!

Having a heavy background in chemistry and physics, I don't agree with the fact that a fire that has been extinguished cannot re-kindle. You can put the fire out, but if enough heat persists, and the fuel and oxygen is there, something as simple as a light breeze can "re-kindle" that fire. From you're thorough explanation, however, I do agree that #3 is a good bet. I've done enough surround-and-drowns to know that sometimes the fire can be too stubborn.

Let's take a step back and look at what science has to say...The father's actions are justifably correct. Primal instinct (don't forget that we humans are still animals) is to protect your home and family no matter the circumstance. A close relative of ours, the gorilla, is even deadlier than we are. Then again, the gorilla has no laws to abide by. I'm not saying this particular father was right, but I'm not going to say he was wrong. So now I'm going to ask what your instinct would be (DO NOT answer this question publicly. Please keep this in your own head.) What would you do with the molestor? Let him go? Beat him up a little? Kick the living snot out of him? Shove a double barrel shotgun down his throat and pull the trigger? Just because the human mind is much more advanced and capable of several dimentions of thought doesn't mean that someone will pause long enough to choose the action that society has deemed acceptable. Again, we are animals, and what ever you decide to do is the right thing to do at the moment. This case isn't pre-meditated murder, nor is it really any type of murder case. The father simply secured his role as the alpha male and protected his home and family. If you can't grasp this concept, highly I suggest watching the History Channel and Discovery Channel.

It's extremely sad to see that this is the way that youth culture is going. I take personal shame as this strikes close to my home. The sad reality is now kids can get away with anything, and you CANNOT retaliate. And I will never say that it's because kids are getting smarter. THEY'RE NOT! It's because they're getting more manipulative, thus you can't discipline them the way they need to be. Heck, if I ever acted out like these kids did my father would have beat my @$$ to a bloody pulp!

I'm glad you brought this up....Cirrus' CAPS ballistic parachute actually penatrates the skin of the aircraft when deployed. And, to make it more interesting/fun, Cirrus aircraft are all composite materials. Therefore, when the parachute deploys, now you have shards of carbon fiber and other composite materials everywhere. COMPOSITE SHARDS ARE EXTREMELY SHARP!!!!!! Another thing, too, and the training videos usually cover this, but if the parachute is deployed it can be flattened to the ground by spraying a wide fog stream on the chute itself (spraying from the top of the canopy towards the aircraft). The weight of the water will lay down the chute and prevent a wind gust from dragging the plane and everyone around it away.

I do recurrent training on these airbags every year as part of my ARFF recertification, and they're quite impressive. just want to bring up a few points for everyone: 1) They operate in the same fashion as airbags in cars. 2) Aircraft manufacturers are starting to move towards 3-point harness style seatbelts. Cirrus Aircraft has been doing this for years, and the rest of the industry is starting to follow suit. Newer aircraft will have these belts, however, there is a lot of older planes out there that are still airworthy, and there is no mandate to retrofit them with harness style seat belts or airbags. 3) Airbags on the harness style belts are installed on the 2 shoulder straps, whereas airbags retorfitted to "car" style seatbelts have 1 bag on the shoulder strap. Another thing to be weary of is ballistic parachute deployment systems. All Cirrus aircraft are equipped with this system, and many planes are retrofitted the parachutes. You can go to the website http://www.cirruspilots.org/Content/CAPSHistory.aspx to learn more about this system. Cirrus also has it's website, http://cirrusaircraft.com/innovation/?item=parachute#products, where you can view many of the new safety systems that aircraft manufacturers are using.

I brought this up in a forum a while back when I was trying to figure out why quints are called ladders in Westchester. The best explanation I could put together is that apparatus designation is based upon local or county level authorities and how they decide to define each designation. So, where I am from upstate, a ladder with a pump is called a quint, but Westchester calls it a ladder. And a squad upstate would be more like a utiliy or light rescue in Westchester. Wouldn't it be nice if we could have a nationwide system that tells us what each piece of apparatus should be called? I say this with complete sarcasm as I believe NFPA has a publication that addresses this issue.

I don't mind going on a roof and cutting away, but I think I would have said NO to this one. The fire seemed to be venting itself quite well, and I agree, wraftery, it should have been have been a defensive attack. Unfortunately, sometimes it's too late before someone figures out that their up against lightweight construction. What's really bugging me, though,, is that there are (a) too many firefihters on the roof, and ( firefighters on the roof after the fire appears to be knocked down. Since I wasn't there, nor did I see the entire incident, so I can't say what the reason is for this decision, but it just doesn't look right. IMO, three should be the max on the roof. I understand that if you have a massive building (i.e. a warehouse) it does take several firefighters to accomplish a vertical ventilation task, but that's for another discussion. I counted at least eight before one slipped beneathe the shingles. Granted, only one firefighter fell through the roof, but that's one too many.

Saw it from the airport...could barely make it out against the clouds, though.

Very interesting....I'll take a look. Thank you!

So, even for actual investigation concerns, I cannot take a cell phone for the pictures or videos? I'm just asking because I have been told by many fire investigators and well experienced officers that it is legal to do so (I've even witnessed it). The pictures and videos were considered evidence in those case. I'm not trying to start an argument. If there is something I don't know, I just want to know the answer.

A fun, and may I add legal, trick with these types of bystanders is to confiscate* their phones and cameras for "investigative purposes." This gives fire officers the chance to see the starting moments of the fire...and what you do with the pictures and videos is your prerogative. *I do not have a specific law that points to confiscation of cell phones or cameras (I spent an hour searching for it). However, I have been part of investigations where we have taken cell phones for the pictures and videos. If you decide to attempt to confiscate a phone or camera, make sure a police officer is accompanying you as bystanders will become angry!

Found this on Ebaumsworld today....Thought it was fitting for the topic.... http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/82372674/

It's not a bad idea. My hometown FD required this, granted we only had 5 rigs. It definitely helps keep your skills up all around.

With the quints that I've worked on over the years I have found that deploying hose has never really bee a problem. The mattydales tend to be at the same average height as most engines, and the hose bed(s) sometimes lower to the ground. It's always been repacking the hose that's been the problem, which usually involves raising the ladder or rotating the ladder around. As for operational use, I can understand why you don't believe in quints. I've found that unless you have a concise plan or SOP for the quint, it just becomes another piece of apparatus clogging the scene. My hometown department (see the yellow truck above) came up with a plan where the quint was first due in the village where the streets are narrow, and would act as the first due engine. Then the actual first due engine would come in and act as the second due engine (water supply) the truck company. This was and still is the SOP there. I know it's extremely backwards from what many people are used to, but it was the only way to get an engine and ladder in front of some of the houses. It worked for my hometown, but that still doesn't mean it works for everyone. I do agree that sometimes the old way works the best (if it ain't broke, don't fix it!).

This I can definitely identify with this. I know firefighters with the Rochester FD, and they used the Quint/Midi system for years. And to everybody...Thank you. All of your answers are making it a little clearer for me. On another note...Meet my first love. Q560 from Honeoye Falls, NY (30 minutes south of Rochester). She's the last RD Murray off the line, and I've put out more fires using this beast than any other piece of apparatus. **This is not the reason I brought up this topic. Before I moved to Westchester I was the Lieutenant on this bad@$, and it exceeds the standard for being a quint, hence being QUINT 560. I raised the question because I've never heard the term "quint" used as an apparatus designator in Westchester.

Interesting you brought it up this way...Where I'm from (Monroe County/Rochester area) regardless if the aerial has a bucket or not, it is called a ladder. Similarly when you add a pump to the truck, regardless of the presence of a bucket, it's called a quint. I would say this is a bit backwards from Westchester. I guess the new question that arises is if this is a local "traditional" naming of the apparatus, or if the county's dispatch system just doesn't have the term "quint" to associate a particular vehicle? I also have the feeling that it's a mirror of the FDNY system, as I have noticed over the last 4 years that even specialty units reflect the same terminology as FDNY (i.e. Engine, Truck, Rescue, MSU, etc.).

I'm sure this question has been beckoned before on this site, however I cannot find one. So.... Why does Westchester County not recognize a "quint" as a piece of apparatus? And why are all the quints in Westchester dubbed "ladders?"

The March 22 session at HPN is on cooperation with the Airport Operations Dept/Fire Brigade. Anyone who is interested should sign up as we can give you a great deal of knowledge on our based aircraft.

Man, that fire really rolled over there.

A little confused....I was under the understanding that New York was a "home rule" state, where INTERIOR status was determined by you department's standards. Can anybody enlighten on this??

The Monroe County Fire Wire (www.mcfw.com) and the Democrat and Chronicle (democratandchronicle.com) usually have updates. I haven't seen any myself since the announcement, though.

Try being that "lazy POS" sitting in a chair all day yielding phone calls. I've been there, done that, and it sucks...mainly because people like you have your head so far up your (self) that you don't even want to consider the other end of it. I agree with everyone on this thread, that is, except you. And as far as that last comment, "cause you would have a miserable time." That is just messed up. You make yourself sound like a trouble maker, which coerces my opinion of you. You should give up the argument. You are severely outnumbered on this, and I wouldn't mind if this thread disappear from the front page.

kinda funny to see a chief with a pack on, especially during exterior ops....just sayin. Though it is nice to see a high level officer with a pack on. You don't see that often (at least where I've worked).

These three districts are from my home territory. I'm very familiar with who they are, what their respective capabilities are, and how they operate. Up to recent these districts relied on heavy mutual aid agreements to ensure the availability of apparatus and manpower, and I applaud them on taking the step to further mitigate the ongoing problems of the volunteer fire service. Hamlin, Walker, Morton...Congratulations on what I hope is named the North West Joint Fire District!