dwcfireman

In my experience a "working fire" differs from region to region. My hometown department was on the edge of suburbia and the vast rural farmlands. As an officer, if I rolled up to a house with smoke pouring out of even just windwo, I'd drop the "working fire" code, mainly because my 2nd due engine was 5 minutes out, and mutual aid was 12 minutes out. About 60% of the time the fire turned into a tough structural fire by time the 2nd due arrived. Down here in Westchester, where a 2nd due is a bit closer, and so is the mutual aid, I forced myself to really investigate what's going on before jumping to the conclusion of or even considering the phrase "10-75." Unless, of course, it was blatantly obvious.

1) I got to see this while I was in Ireland. It was awesome to see how this system works, which begs the question of why can't we accomplish this in the US (I know there are many answers to that question, but we'll save that for a different thread). 6) I recall this was a discussion before. Do you remember what thread that may have been in? I want to look back and see what others had to say on the subject, but I can't remember the name of the thread or if it actually existed. Maybe we should start a new one... p.s. Your definition of CHAOS is the same as mine hahaha

http://www.nynow.org/post/10-years-after-blackout-how-has-power-grid-changed What were you doing on this date? Working in my hometown grocery store. How did it effect the operations of Emergency Services in your town? We were slowed down because the apparatus bay doors were not on the emergency generator, so it took a few extra seconds to open them by hand. Monroe County, NY (Rochester area) was not largely effected in emergency responses. However, agencies were called out to assist at nursing homes, hospitals, schools, and aiding local DPW's and highway departments to assist and maintain average daily functions. Were you ready? Was anybody? No one expected this to happen, but it did. Are we ready for it now? More so than before, IMO. Any changes today? IMO, no. This contradicts my previous answer, but after seeing the affects of Huricane Sandy last year proves that we are still not ready for major black outs and power outages. If we were truly ready this would never happen again. Now, when I say this would never happen again, it's based off of the information of the true national grid. Oh wait, there is none! http://www.treehugger.com/clean-technology/tres-amigas-superstation-could-connect-the-3-us-electrical-grids.html Pardon the editing, but this picture roughly resembles the THREE (3) elecetrical grids in the United States. The black out in 2003 turned out to be extrememly minor to what could have happened, meaning 50% of the contiguous 48 states not having power for several hours, or worse, several days. There is an infinite number of ways to prevent the next big black out, but I'm not an electrical engineer, so I'll leave that problem solving to the professionals.

In my hometown department we did something similiar (I believe they still do this). Your name, your designation (interior on green card stock or exterior on orange), and the department name on one side; the otherside is your name,physician, and emergency contact name and number. This is extremly basic, but great for departments that don't have a lot of money. I come from upstate, so I know all about the lack of funds. All you really need for this is a basic computer with Microsoft Word of Excel, and a printer capable of printing of card stock. You have to protect the tags with a high heat laminate, which you can get at most office supplie stores, along with the high heat laminator. You can also get the metal punch rings to protect the punch hole for the clips (forgive me, I don't recall where to get them). Cheap and easy is sometimes the best way to go. I moved away from my hometown almost 6 years ago, and my interior tags are still intact after all of the fires and all of the years of sitting in my glove box.

Regardless of the NFPA or local requirements of designating a ladder or tower ladder or quint, wouldn't it be nice to label apparatus as to it's capabilities and tools that it carries? Such as a quint, you know you're getting a ladder truck with a pump; a rescue-pumper/engine, an engine company with rescue tools; a tower ladder, a platformed aerial with a waterway...IMO we should be labeling apparatus as to what they are capable of accomplishing on scene. I know if I call in a quint I can use it as a ladder or an engine. I know if I call in a tower ladder I'm going to get a platform with a wateryway. In my (possibly ignorant) mind, if I call an engine I get ad engine, and if I call a ladder I get a straight stick with no (or MAYBE with a) pump. In the chaos of that we call the "fire scene," maybe we should be designating apparatus of what the vehicle is designed to do. Another opinion of mine, get rid of the squad designation. Where I'm from a squad is a pick-up with a utility body with a few extra guys and some extra tools, usually used for BS calls like pump outs or BLS/EMS calls. I understand that a squad in NYC and Westchester is a "special" unit that can act as either an engine, ladder, or rescue company depending on what it's called for or it's rotation, but you're really just getting an engine with a diverse crew. Again, my own opinion, regardless of what type of apparatus you arrive on, you should be ready to operate in any situation you are assigned to. EDIT: The above is my opinion based on APPARATUS designation, not the designation of individual firefighters or companies.

This is a solid question. Having been a young officer myself in a few departments, the only "qualifications" set forth seem to be those set by the company by-laws. I understand NYS has it's suggestions, and NFPA has it's qualifications, but what should we really be doing to prepare younger officers for their new found roles? What classes should they be taking? And how can we expand on this training, especially since the number of fires keeps falling and the number of EMS and rescue calls are rising?

To clarify what I originally meant with NYS being a "home rule" state when it comes to firefighting standards is that NYS doesn't uphold a single standard for everyone to follow (hence this discussion topic). I wasn't getting into anything legal.

The calls are never late at HPN. The Class D airspace around HPN is small, and therefore aircraft don't generally talk to the tower until they are within 10 nautical miles of the field. By the time the pilot declares and emergency and the tower relays it to us, we now have 3 minutes to respond and call 60 Control. Once the tones are done and the first few rigs are enroute the aircraft is usually on the ground safely (mind you, the approach speed of jets is 140mph, and larger prop aircraft at 80mph). An entire incident can unfold and wrap up within minutes. And, trust me, I hear everything on OPS 5 from the driver seat of ARPT 11, and I feel better when I hear the cavalry calling enroute knowing that you're all just a few minutes away. But, getting back to the main discussion.... Bnechis hit the nail on the head. This is what airport personnel strive for when emergencies are going to [possibly] happen. When an aircraft is in distress we always want everyone staged and ready to go for the "what if" moment. But, then again, no one can predict when or what is going to happen. If someone knew before hand that Asiana 214 was slam into the seawall, then 100 ambulances and 50 fire trucks would have been staged and ready on the adjoining taxiway. Did you know that the Cessna 206 was going to crash and burn behind MBIA 2 years ago? Did you know the Piper was going to run out of fuel and crash-land in a parking lot on Industrial Drive? It's like predicting when a car accident is going to happen, or when the next working structure fire is going to be. The only thing we can do is train for the worst and hope for the best.

This paragraph (to me) shows the problem here in NYS, and that's the fact that NYS is a "home rule" state when it comes to firefighting standards. My vollie house has 3 classes of firefighters, again with different responsibilities/rights. And if the rules were to be brought up for a by-laws change, there would more than definitely be Hell in that meeting room. Even better (worse) is that the members who will contest your by-laws change are the same guys who are going to contest a NYS law change and standard for firefighting. "200 years of Tradition unimpeded by Change" is still too common around NYS fire houses, and change is far overdue.

At Westchester, because the ARFF brigade is also the Operations department, we have the authority to shut down the airport in the even of a crash. If such a disaster happened all ground trffic would stop temporarily and all airborne traffic would be diverted. Once the ARFF trucks are out of the terminal area only then would airlines return to the gates, which is fortunately out of the way for any responding apparatus. Looking back at some of our smaller crashes (like the Trinidad that overshot RWY 29 and ended up in the ditch by RT120), the airport does stay open and operating, and just the confined area of the incident/accident is closed. This is where the Operations escort will happen. Thankfully, HPN is no that big, and apparati can be escorted quickly.

Every on posting is all in the YES vote (including myself)...I want to hear from a Nay-sayer as to why you would not want a NYS standard on becoming a firefighter. Why did you vote no? p.s. I respect your opinions, but I'm just curious to see your side of the arguement.

I found this article on Fire Engineering's website, posted on 07/04/2010. This may be a good start to the solution of preventing firefighter arson. http://www.fireengineering.com/articles/2010/07/murphy-firefighter-arsonists.html

I've had the unfortunate experiences of being involved in a few maydays, both on a FAST and as a company officer with a FF down. It's not fun, and every time it happened within thefirst 10 minutes of being on scene. You hit the nail on the head with the statement: The departments that I have belonged to in Weschester routinely rely on one of these FASTs, and it's a shame that we've never trained together with that department's personnel in a FAST scenario. It would be awesome training as they are the ones who have been through the class, have been to numerous incidents as a FAST, and progressively train for these mayday scenarios. Unfortunately, counties throughout New York State do not offer the same specialized teams. What I find most unfortunate about it is in lack of uniformity between the counties on a number of things (like specialized teams, radio jargon, apparatus numbering, etc.). The only thing that seems to be uniform is that most counties provide at least a HAZMAT team. For Westchester, having a central, county level FAST doesn't really work, because of area coverage, the number of districts, and the call volume. Where I'm from, in Monroe County, it was up to the individual batallions if they wanted to have a specialized team (other than HAZMAT). My battallion chose ice/water rescue. But if you needed a FAST, you just picked a random neighboring department to do the job.

We have a booster line on each truck at the airport (HPN). They work great for small fires, wash downs (i.e. washing the blue juice off the ramp and into the sewer), and all the random, incidental things we respond to. Never would the booster line be operationally acceptable at a major incident, but it's agreat resource for the little things where mapower is limited.

"Just a month after the passage of the New York state Secure Ammunition and Firearms Enforcement Act (SAFE), comes another noble nanny-state proposal from the office of Governor Andrew Cuomo. The New York Directive to Regulate Inessential Vehicle Effectiveness Act (DRIVE) seeks to limit the capabilities of so-called "assault vehicles" which contributed to the deaths of 1,077 people and injury to over 128,000 on New York State roadways in 2011. The city of New York reported another 250 deaths and over 49,000 injuries resulting from vehicular assaults in the same period." This is the opening paragraph of an article I just read (found at http://www.policymic.com/articles/28140/nys-drive-act-would-ban-ferraris-and-other-assault-vehicles/665421).%C2'> "If passed, the DRIVE Act would ban the sale of these "assault vehicles" within New York State. Residents would be required to transfer or sell the vehicles out of state or turn them over to the NYS Department of Motors Vehicles (DMV) within one year. After one year, these vehicles would be banned from operation on NYS roadways. Violation through possession would result in charges of a Class D Felony, punishable by no more than 5 years in prison and a $7,500 fine. Other provisions of the DRIVE Act include, — Enhanced Driving Record checks to ensure those who have committed a vehicular crime in the past no longer have access to their weapon of choice. — Bans on spoilers, low profile tires, ground effects kits, and the color red. In addition to many other speed enhancements. — Bans on tinted windows for concealed occupant carry. — Passenger limits of four persons per vehicle. Current vehicle capacity is exempted under the regulations as long as no more than four persons are loaded into the vehicle. — Bans on passenger vehicles with a curb weight exceeding 4,000 lbs or more than 200 horsepower. — Bans on commercial pickup trucks with greater than a half-ton bed capacity or greater than 400 foot-pounds of torque. — Along with mandatory reporting of "large quantity" fuel purchases that could indicate use for illegal activity." According to these ridiculous guidelines I would have to sell me beloved Chevy Silverado because it's too heavy and too powerful...And every fire department with RED apparatus will have to repaint the rigs (I'm sure there would be some sort of exemption, but I like to believe that elected officials are actually dumb enough to consider this...reasoning because the only thing government leaders are capable of are voting themselves a raise whe they feel they "did good" (strong opinonhere)). Someone PLEASE tell me this is fake.

Ignore this....I spoke too soon....it is fake haha

What's even worse is their inability to remember TRS 1540 and 1542 (Transportation Security Regulations pertaining to airports and commercial service airports). They tried to take my leatherman away once, mind you I work at Westchester Airport. The TSO told me I couldn't bring my leatherman through a secure door (which my office monitors), however a tool box filled with screwdrivers, hammers, a saw, and many other sharp instruments is fine.

A bit ironic since many districts are imposing and enforcing strict internet rules, like not posting calls to Facebook!

All the time and money wasted putting these in is what's getting to me. It would be nice if the federal government (or any government for that matter) learned to think things through before acting. How could they not see this coming?

It's more or less the same thing with our equipment at the airport. We have a Snozzle unit on Airport 7, and it's nothing more than just an elevated master stream. Granted, our Snozzle has more capabilities, like being able to be lowered to ground level for tactical advantage and a piercing nozzle to inject foam or clean agent to the interior of the aircraft withour firefighters dragging handlines inside the fuselage. The piercing nozzle, from what I've seen, has been adapted on some squirts to puncture a roof to attack attic fires in lightweight truss-construction houses. It it works for those departments, I'm for trying it out, but it still doesn't replace the skills and knowledge of the "truckie."

In response to a friend's Facebook comment, in which he stated that the United States should 'take ALL guns away from everyone,' I posted this in his comments: I bring this topic up in light of the recent event in West Webster, NY where four firefighters were shot at, killing two and injuring the others. And again in Alabama, where firefighters were fired upon...And New Jersey, where a prisoner got hold of a weapon and fire upon police officers. I have always been a firm believer in the Second Amendment, and I exercise that right as a law abiding citizen, and want to know others' opinions on the subject. Are people on this site un owners? What is your take on gun control? What do you think is causing these massacres? What do you think should be done to make not only our job, but Americans in general, safer?

I know my number isn't accurate, but for 2am it seemed okay with me It all falls back on training and knowing what you're doing inside.

From what I can see, images from the scene show vehicles in the driveway. If the first unit(s) on scene CANNOT confirm that everyone is out of the structure, then aggressive primary and secondary searches need to be conducted to CONFIRM that everyone is out. ONLY if the structure is compromised beyond the point that would put firefighters in danger (i.e. going to an exterior operations) should any type of search be cancelled or cut short. As far as overhaul goes, this is not the point where firefighter should be finding a body. Firefighters need to be trained to find vicitms while conducting primary and secondary searches, and rescues should be (due to training) more succesful. Overhaul is supposed to serve as the final stage of the fire fight, and this is where firefighters SHOULD be extinguishing hot spots and creating a safe environment for investigators. I do understand that there are some circumstances where victims could be missed, like in large area rooms, unreachable and confined spaces, and unusal areas (attics, basement closets, boiler rooms, etc.). In my opinion, the reasons firefighters miss victims during their searches is due to a lack of training and the lack of experience. Some departments may not have the means to train properly, but it is important to train firefiighters in fire-like conditions to find victims. My department, for example, doesn't have the means to provide excellent in-house search and resue drills because of the facility that we have. This is where the officers have to become creative to teach the skills necessary for this function. On the other side, since fires happen ever so decreasingly, younger firefighters just don't gain the experience to conduct a thorough search. Thankfully, fires don't happen as often anymore, but on-the-job training and hands-on experience is the best way to learn. The more you do it, the better you become. Example: I'm usually on the truck, and usually end up on the roof. I can vertically ventialate any building in my sleep. But, 99% of those fires never required a search because all of the occupants were accounted for (just pointing out that some tasks are not completed because they are not necessary, which also leads to inefficiency on the fireground). So, what do we need to do to fix this? Train more? Conduct more unnecessary searches? It's hard to say. You can train all day with the plastic Res-Q-Randy doll, but it's not the same as actually finding a victim in a raging inferno.

Here's a link to the official fundraiser for the families: http://www.indiegogo.com/Webster-firefighters-fundraiser

I just learned the names myself...I have personally met Tomasz Kaczowka (deceased) and Joseph Hofsetter (injured). It is entirely too tragic that this took place, especially so close to my hometown and to people I have met and worked with in the past. Please continue sending your condolences to the families of the deceased. I can't bear to imagine what they are going through right now.