mfc2257

TL-14 in Mt. Kisco is a Sutphen 90+ foot tower

TL-27 in Chappaqua is a Sutphen 75ft tower quint

TL-38 in Sleepy Hollow is a Sutphen 90+ foot tower

TL-2 in Port Chester is a Sutphen 90+ foot tower (don't quote me on the but I'm nearly positive)

TL-1 in Thornwood is a Sutphen 90+ foot tower

L-18 in Somers is a Sutphen 90+ foot tower

TL-24 in Harrison is a Sutphen 90+ foot tower

E-248 in Millwood is a Spartan Chassis with assembly completed by Sutphen (the Sutphen proprietary cab wouldn't fit in Station 1 due to height restrictions)

Yonkers E-314 is a Sutphen (don't quote me on it, I know it used to be) as well as their Foam unit and at least 1 reserve engine

As I think of more I'll add them.

Since I have become a southerner....Krystal all the way man...(for those of you who don't know what that is, look it up) 

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Krystal is to the Southland as White Castle is to the North.

Krystal sliders have mustard and a pickle instead of a White Castle belly bomber has ketchup.

Definatly good.

Chic-Fil-A

Closest one is to you all is in the Paramus Mall.

Otherwise head south of the Mason Dixion and they are on every street corner.

Fresh, best chicken fast food on the market.

Chappaqua E-145 has a 3inch hose reel. Not sure of the total length these days, but I've seen it make some faily impressive lays before. It's on an early '80's Mack M series.

I've only seen one 5 inch hose reel before. Seminole County, FL E-27. I'll try and find a pic or two.

Alot of this falls on the officers themselves. They need to develop a SOG  regardless if its a "working fire" ( which I didn't know they had jobs, if its inside the building its a damn structure fire no matter how you look at it, if its outside its a BS fire unless it extends) or if it is a "AFA".  "ACME CAR 99 on scene investigating" This lets everybody know that HEY somebody with a radio is there before us and I bet they'll advise us REAL QUICK if the s*** hits the fan but we will continue responding in a SAFE AND PRUDENT fashion.

As far as getting off the piece not ready to go to work, AGAIN officers what are you teaching your FNG's obviously nothing... this is FF 101 training here. If the people occupying the seats on the apparatus don't know what to do then you need to develop a plan or educate them what job assignment they get with that position on the apparatus. Laminated cards or extinguisher tag holders with assignments work great,zip tie it to visible area on/near that seat.

ex. "SEAT 4 Nozzleman" scba #4 radio#4 Flashlight #4 locate source of fire extinguish......... sounds simple

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Don't assume that officers aren't teaching their guys what they need to do to be prepared. If I was riding the officers seat, each and every guy on the rig was ready to work, and knew their assignement. I trained with all my surrounding companies and knew that their guys were taught the right way but that didn't mean that every guy followed the rules and was ready to work when they stepped off their rig at one of my calls. You can't put the fire service in a box and think that each time you open it that it's going to come out the same way. That is why ambiguous phrases like "nothing showing" in my oppinion to more harm than good. All you need is one bad apple on a rig where there is no officer to say to the guys, "what are you wasting your time putting all that stuff on for, the Chief said there is "noting showing" it's just going to be BS"...

They don't need a paid department until the vollies can't do the job or aren't willing to.

Currently this department has 3 engines with no less than 4 men each that are out the door in less than 3 minutes (usually before the tones are done dropping) and a truck with no less than 5 men. The career alternative for this in PG County would be 1 engine with 2 guys and the truck with 3 guys. Doesn't sound like a good trade off to me. Paid personnel should absolutely be introduced where they are needed to cover the load of calls. They should not be introduced into a territory where the volunteers have a consistant and strong history of not only covering all of their calls, but of smoking other companies into their own first due area for structure fires ard MVA's.

PGCFD is a combination department. Certain stations are all career, some combo, some all vollie like Station 33. When or if the vollies at 33 can't support the call load, the county will place a career engine into the station.

Station 12 (College Park) has a vollie engine (vollie owned), career engine (county owned), and a truck that is supported by both vollies and career guys (county owned). Station 34 (Chillum-Adelphi) has two engines and a tiller that are owned by the vollies but a county owned ALS unit with two career FF's on it.

This part of the country is decades ahead of the northeast when it comes to integrating career personnel where they are needed. Most of the time, the career guys in PG county work very well with the vollies and consider them their peers and friends.

FIRE INSUREANCE MUST SUCK IN THIS TOWN.

Look like you house is gonna burn down at least twice in your life if you live in this area. anyone know where the busiest company in the US is? these guys are number 3. also is it just me or do they seem really, really, ridiculously cocky? like "ya we the best you all wish you could fight fires like we do"

i mean we would all love a busy house but what is going on that they are having sooo many fires? do they include car accidents and no fire things in that number?

if it is a volunteer company, why do people live there?

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The people who live there are volunteer "live in's". They are folks that are willing to trade their expertise as FF's for a roof over their head. They live in small quarters and have a ton of passion for what they do. They are 100% volunteer and most years are listed as the 2nd busiest engine in the US next to D.C. E-10.

They aren't as cocky as you might think. They are proud of what they do, and they get a lot of attention from folks who either want to learn from them, have fun with them, or just be their friends in the fire service.

Yes car accidents are included in their numbers as well as BS calls like bells sounding, food on the stove, and pranks BUT I'm pretty familiar with the area, have ridden with them a few times and know a bunch of career guys that are employed by the county in stations that surround 33's first due.... They don't run a lot of BS. They are the real deal. They aren't padding their numbers.

I love how people retreat to the fight attitude on so many topics and start adding &%&*$@#@%$ and act if they are cursing at each other.

Like it or not, the term Nothing Showing has created a sense of complacency with FF's over the years. So EMSJunkie, when you hear the first arriving unit transmit a Nothing Showing you might be smart enough to sit back and take a deep breath so that you can make sure you're ready for anything when you step off the rig, but what too many other FF's do is become lazy. They don't finish packing up, their gear isn't buttoned, their hood isn't on, they haven't discussed thier assignements on the jump seat, they don't have their flashlight, they don't know what tool they are pulling, the officer on the rig doesn't call for an assignment, the MPO doesn't look for the hydrant when he makes the last turn onto the street etc etc.

There is nothing more frustrating as an officer than seeing guys step off the rig not ready to work. In my book, every time a rig pulls onto a scene, every member of that unit should be ready to work upon arrival. I don't care if it's bells sounding due to contractors setting off the alarm, food on the stove, or a fully involved OMD, unpreparedness is inexcusable. Nothing Showing transmissions over the years have led to unpreparedness.

AND a more technical point.

With modern construction we arrive at more and more reported fires where there isn't anything showing. Why... Insulation, double pane windows, central heating/AC, etc etc.... make houses more and more air tight every day... if the homeowner shut a few doors on his way out of the house there is a good chance that an entire section of a house could be involved and just waiting for more oxygen. You may arrive an nothing is showing, but the second someone makes entry there will be plenty showing.... And plenty of guys riding on the first due assignment who are thinking more about getting back to sleep as opposed to who's going to have the knob, forceable entry, OVM, roof man, hydrant, search... etc.

Argue back and forth all you want, but until someone can get the folks that become complacent on the ball with the rest of us, the term Nothing Showing does more harm than good.

Nothing Showing shouldn't be used on the radio to describe what is going on.

When the first unit arrives on location, if something is showing, they'll announce it. If they mark on location and say nothing else, then one would think that they are investigating the nature of the call. If and when they find the fire or lack there of, they'll place the box in service, or request that communications strike alarm for a working structure fire.

Nothing showing adds ZERO value to any radio transmission, and can only serve to stand in the way if something does turn out to be wrong. Either something is on fire or its not. There is no room for grey area in the fire service, and the term nothing showing facilitates grey area.

Millwood ran two Macks. Most popular was the old E-245 which was a 1957 Mack B Model on a tandem axle. It was a 5 man fully enclosed cab with a 1000 gallon pump, 1500 gallon tank and one of the first (if not the first) prepiped foam proportioning systems. It was the first piece of fire apparatus I ever drove. Tanker 15 replaced it about 10 years ago. It is owned by a private citizen near Newburgh. It was hailed as a revolutionary piece of fire apparatus at the time.

The second was E-244 a 1944 Mack. This left the company just before I joined, but from all the pictures I've seen of it, I believe it was a L Model with a 750gpm pump and a 500 gallon tank.

I also now own a 1957 B Model from the department I was a member of in college. It is currently being restored.

Chappaqua Runs two late 70's or early '80's MC Model Macks (E-145 with the hose reel and R-23 which used to be a full pumper that had the pump and body removed, chassis restored and a Non Walk In rescue body installed) E-243 is their antique and I believe it's a 40's E model.

Briarcliff E-93 (if I remember correctly) is a MC pumper from the late 70's. I believe their antique is an early B model from the 30's or an E or L model. They had other Macks in the 50's 60's 70's too but I cant remember which.

Croton E-119 is a CF that is still in service (1984 I believe)

Mt. Kisco still has a CF in service as E-104 (1984 I believe)

I believe Vista and Banksville all have R model Mack tankers.

These are just a few off the top of my head.

My department has had a rash of chimney fires and have used up all our flares. Anyone have any ideas has to where to purchase more. I've been told they don't make them anymore. Any clues?

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Not really sure where you can get them. Best bet would be AAA in North White Plains.

On a side note, I've found over the years that Chimney Flares are quite ineffective especially as they age on the apparatus. A better method which I've discussed on this site quite some time ago is the "Chimney Bomb"

Essentially, you take a thin plastic bag (The best ones are the vegatable bags from the produce section of the supermarket) and fill it with Dry Chemical Powder. You can purchase the Dry Chem in 5lb buckets that are used to refill CO2 cartridge powered Dry Chem Extinguishers. The powder has an unlimited shelf life. Fill the bag and seal it with a knot or tie or zip it shut.

When you arrive at a chimney fire, the crew that goes to the roof brings several of these pre-made bombs with them. After the fire from the fire box is cleared via a bucket, close the doors to the fireplace or place a board over the front if there are no doors, and have the roof crew drop the bag into the top of the chimney. Take another board (called a chimney plate and it's preferably made out of lightweight metel not wood) and cover the chimney. The bag will fall into the chimney and as it approaches the fire the bag melts and the dry chem powder spreads to extinguish the fire.

I have a ton of experience using this method over chimney flares and the results are great. There is also a reduction in the amount of excess smoke and you don't have to worry about malfunctioning chimney flares.

I have heard about the live in programs in Maryland and they seem fantastic.

CM36, when you say you ride with a department down there, and I have heard others use that term too, what exactly does that mean? Are you still a member in Westchester and you just transfered your training credentials down there and they let you respond to calls with them? I am curious how exactly it works.

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The stupid rule that exists in NYS about not being a member of more than 1 department doesn't exist in most other states. (Maryland & Pennsylvania for sure). I was a member of Millwood in NY as well as 3 other departments in MD & PA at the same time. Many folks outside of NY are members of multiple departments (ie: the one in the town you work in, and the one in the town you live in)

As far as live-in's go, it's not just PG Station 12 (College Park, U-Maryland). Many departments in Prince George, Baltimore, Montgomory, Anne Arundel, Fairfax, Louden, and other DC metro counties have stations with live-in's.

The basic concept of it all, is that the stations were either built or modified to have bunk rooms or small individual living quarters. The folks that "live in" trade their time and services for free room, utilities, etc. The closest comparison is like living in something like a college dorm for those that have individual living quarters, or career style bunk room for those stations who don't have individual living quarters.

The most notable "live-in" station in the US is probably Prince Georges County Station 33. It's been a topic on this site before, but for those who haven't read previouslly, they are an all volunteer department on the DC border in a fairly rough area. They are often ranked as the 2nd busiest engine in the country (regardless of volunteer, career, combo status) next to DC E-10. I believe that they have 19 live in's right now if i remember correctly. On any given day or night they can staff 3 engines and a truck with full crews out the door before dispatcher is finished with the announcement (if they're not already on the street returning from another call)

I'm over my days of waking up at 4am to plow the driveway before going to work.... Sleeping on one of the benches of R-36 OR better yet on 3 chairs from the meeting room lined up (hoping that I would roll off on the floor which was what usually happened).... The only saving grace for those nights was Rocky's Deli right down the road (24/7) and good company to waste the hours away with.

Thanks for the reply on the NJ job.

I remember the job in Pelham. We were there with Rescue 36 early on in the fire to fill bottles (this was back when R-36 was still one of a handful of mobile cascades with 8 6500lb+ bottles). We had a decent sized crew. A few men stayed with the rig to fill bottles and the rest of went to work. We operated on the same floor with a crew from FDNY for a brief period of time.

The only other time I've seen FDNY operating out of their own box was at the SMRP NB @ the Cross County EB interchange for a pin job. Truck & Engine 52 out of Riverdale were dispactched to a job that should have gone to Yonkers. The YFD OIC kept them on the job to work.

JBE, tbendick, Sq288... Can you shed some light here...

I was boxing up my FireEngineering's from 2005 getting ready to store them when I came across the "Specifying the Small Stuff" supplement from June of 2005 (a supplement on specs for apparatus ordering).

On the cover is a picture of a job in NJ that appears to be either Weehawkin or Union City by "Franks Furniture". Bergenfield's Tower, a NHRFR rear mount (I would assume the lo-pro Seagrave that runs out of Weehawkin by the Lincoln Tunnel) and FDNY Truck 3 are visable at the front of the structure with an unidentified straight stick operating its master stream from a far side exposure.

It seems strange to me that any FDNY apparatus would be operating at what appears to be a standard taxpayer in NJ. Hoboken, Jersey City, as well as other NHRFR apparatus would seem to be much closer than Truck 3 that if I'm not mistaken turns out from 13th Street and 4th Ave (for folks not familiar with NYC 4th Ave NB becomes Park Ave at 14th St., Union Square).... A pretty good shot away from the Lincoln Tunnel.

Wouldn't Ladder 21 (38th IAO Dyer Ave, Lincoln Tunnel) or Ladder 24 (31st IAO 6th Ave) be more logical?

Any thoughts here?

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you can here it wailing in the backround

http://media.putfile.com/MVI_001742

Aussie George

The "Que" that everyone is referring to is a model of siren made by Federal Signal. It's been around for decades and is one of the most recognizable sounds in the American fire service. Rarely do you see on on a piece of apparatus that isn't fire related (Police and EMS for example rarely have them). The technical name is a Federal Q2B. It is a very large electric motor that spins a fan blade inside a protective and decerative schroud. The fan blade draws air in one side and shoots it out the other. It creates a distinctive sound that sounds like an old air raid siren (on a smaller scale) They are usually operated by a switch mounted on the floor of the cab on both the drivers and officers side. Step on the switch and the siren with spool up to speed and begin to scream. Let off the switch and the siren growls on the way down. Typically they are mounted on the front bumper of fire apparatus with a decerative chrome shroud that covers the fan and a cover for the electric motor that is chrome as well. Occasionally they are mounted into the front grille of the apparatus with only the fan and schroud exposed and the motor conceled in the body of the apparatus.

The product web link is below.

http://www.fedsig.com/products/index.php?id=111

I haven't taken an EMS response in 5 years, BUT before that I took hundreds.

Best rule of thumb is if there is something to be gained by calling the hospital then call. If the ER crew will be better prepared to treat your patient when you arrive if they've been notified, then call. If your patient has a minor injury or complaint that doesn't warrent a call to the ER, then you are only taking time away from other patients already in the ER by calling.

I've had some frequent flyers in the past that call every time they had a stomach ache just so they could get treated right away and not wait in line with everyone else that got there on their own. Our policy prohibited us from refusing to transport, but when we arrived at the hospital, we would drop them in the waiting room to sign in after notifing the charge nurse or ER doc that they were there. If the doc wanted to see them right away, then in they went, if not, they wait just like everyone else.

As far as the driver calling the ER, even if they aren't an EMT or Medic, if they are driving an ambulance and participating on EMS calls, they should at least be a first responder. They should be familiar with giving a basic report to the hospital either via cell or radio patch. They should also be familiar with how to establish both phone and radio patch to each hospital that they could potentially transport to on a regular basis. If a Medic, EMT, and Attendant are working a 12 year old that is in arrest after being hit in the chest with a baseball, the driver better be able to let the ER know what's going on...

FDNY Only runs 95 and 75 ft. tower ladders and 100 ft. tillers and rearmounts.  I think the used to run a ALF / LTI 100 ft tower (L-14?) and a Sutphen 100 ft. tower (L-119) in the 1980 sometime.  Unsure though, I've only saw pictures.

I know Chicago had a E-One 135' straight stick at one time called the high-ladder.

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That is correct FDNY L-14 was a Century Cab LaFrance rear mount 100ft tower. Follow this link to view it.

http://www.nyfd.com/manhattan_ladders/ladder_14.html

FDNY also ran (they may still run up to 4 of them I believe) 110ft Seagrave Rearmounts.

FDNY L-119 used to run a 144ft rear mount Mack Maxim straight stick (also called a "High Ladder") in the 1960's before being replaced by a Mack Arielscope.

Chappaqua L-3 used to be a 106ft Hahn rear mount straight stick. It was recently replaced by a 75ft Sutphen mid mount tower.

Use the paint currently recommended by the manufacturer. In addition, follow the instructions for prepping the helmet very closely. If the helmet isn't cleaned and the surface preped properly, it doesn't matter what paint you use, it will peel, flake, or fisheye.

I've seen a few do-it-yourself re-paints that came out looking pretty bad due to lack of prep work.

Also FYI, I believe you can send your helmet back to Cairns and they will refurb it for you in whatever color you specify. Not sure of the cost because it's been a few years since I knew of anyone doing it, but I feel like $75 plus shipping is a familiar number.

On a side note... Before this guy decides to sue everyone and their mother, I wonder how bad the weather was in the area and for how long. Was this guy outside continuing to work while the sky is unloading around him and going on the principal that there is a one in a million chance that he'll get struck.

The cost of helmet fronts would hardly be noticable and would be the last thing anyone would think about when trying to improve communications via streamlined identifiers. In fact, the the only cost that would have to be incurred would be the technology update for the CAD and the man hours to implement. If individual companies choose to re lable their helmets or even their appratus for that matter is up to them... From a communications standpoint just because you have one thing written on your equipment doesn't mean that the people talking to you on the radio can see it.

When the topic of streamlining operations in the county, changing identifiers so that each company is unique, automatic mutual aid on certain calls, etc... people constantly say "if it ain't broke don't fix it". Nothing like 100 years of tradition unimpeded by progress. The good majority of the country operates their counties on a streamlined identifier system where fire districts, stations, apparatus, box areas, and officers for each individual department correspond with the districts county assigned number for them. This allows for much cleaner orginization in the CAD and a much clearer level of communication. The way Westchester County's apparatus numbering exists now is through a disorganized system where apparatus are arbitrarily numbered based on reserving a number, tradition, politics, etc. There is no rhyme or reason to it. There are departments with multiple engines who's identifiers are over 100 numbers apart. (Thornwood has Engine #'s 88, 89, and 290 Pleasantville has #'s 90, 91, 259, 260). That should have been corrected at the county level LONG ago. There is Ladder 1 and Tower Ladder 1 in the county. They are both Tower Ladders and from different municipalities (go figure).

As far as saying that Westchester would become like Rockland, from an orginizational standpoint, that wouldn't be the worst idea. All thier companies have unique numerical identifiers. If I hear a piece of apparatus on the air that begins with an 11, there is no mistaking that its responding from Orangeburg. In Westchester Engine 11 Comes from Harrison, Ladder 11 is "Reserved for Future Use", Tower Ladder 11 Comes from New Rochelle, Squad 11 From Yonkers, Mini Attack 11 from Banksville, Utility 11 from Mohegan, Tanker 11 from Continental Village and there is no rhyme or reason. So geographically Squad 11, TL-11, and Engine 11 could easily wind up at the same job down county, and Utility 11, Tanker 11, etc could wind up at the same job upcounty, yet they are all from different companies. Thats plain backwards and can lead to confusion on a hairy job.

As for placing the county number of 60 before Westchester apparatus, that isn't necessary unless they are operating out of county. Last time I checked, in Rockland and Putnam (for examples) who have unique numerical identifiers, the apparatus do not announce the county number (44 for Rockland and 40 for Putnam) before thier apparatus numbers when communicating.

This may be a forum hijacking..... BUT....

If you drop the "2" from the front of the 3 digit numbers, you come up with what should be the Westchester County Department Numbers for each department that should correspond to apparatus and station numbers.... I've commented on this before, and hope that someday Westchester will move away from the chaotic apparatus numbering system that is used today to a streamlined system that groups apparatus and company numbers together.

For example.... Company 208 is Croton... Drop the 2 and the department simply becomes Company 8 and thus...... Engine 8-1 (E-118) Engine 8-2 (E-119) Engine 8-3 (E-120) Rescue 8 (Rescue 18) Tanker 8 (Tanker 10) Chief 8, Assistant 8, Deputy 8, Ambulance 8A, Ambulance 8A1 Etc etc etc Not to hard to know that any apparatus that begins with 8 is from Croton

Company 225 is Millwood... Drop the 2 and the department simply becomes company 25.... Engine 25-1 (E-245) Engine 25-2 (E-247) Engine 25-3 (E-248) Rescue 25 (Rescue 36) Tanker 25 (Tanker 15) Mini Attack 10 (MA-25) Chief 25, Assistant 25, Deputy 25, etc etc etc.....

Sorry for hijacking, but I think that company numbers, which aren't currently very important with day to day operations, can streamline the fire service and the mutual aid system

Not the first time I've said it... not the last.

I've had some experience with No-Smoke systems which are essentially a box installed on the exhaust system of the rig that closes a butterfly valve and holds the exhaust while you back into the building. When you pull out, it will stay closed for a few seconds and then open up again once you've been running for about 30 seconds. It's been about 5 years since I've operated a piece of apparatus with one of these systems installed, but they appeared to reduce horsepower and torque.

In addition, I've had some experience with roof mounted exhaust fans in the fire station. When the bay door(s) open, the fans go on and create a draft through the open apparatus bay door and up/out through the roof. These work very well.

If I'm not mistaken it doesn't carry hose or water.

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I can understand a truck having a pump but no water/hose so that it can pump its own ladder pipe, but I can't much see the point in putting a pump on a rescue and not at least having preconnects and a small tank to cover a car fire or initial attack.

I believe Rescue 9 out of Valhalla has a 300 or so gallon tank and a 500-1000 gpm pump along with a crosslay or two.

I didn't have a chance to watch any of the episodes at their original broadcast time, so I TiVo'd them. After watching the first bunch of episodes back to back to back, I kept seeing the fact that the fires were all without smoke etc. Then there was the fire in the cabinets that kept shooting out at them.

I rewound and saw that most of the fires appeared to be filmed in a propane fired training facility. Sometimes you could even see the poured block walls of the training room. All of the overhaul films appear to be genuine, but I think most of the actual fires are filmed in a facility, and the budget for the show probably pays to have halfway decent and real looking furniture and settings put into the room to make it more realistic than the typical training facility with concrete and metel everwhere.

Just my 2 cents.

I'd comment on the PPE issue, but it's been covered.