mfc2257

He is just "fired" from Kentland, or also DCFD??

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I was at 3 Engine in DC this weekend, and most seemed to think that unless he was charged criminally that there would be no action taken by DCFD. He has been to work since the incident.

Given everything I saw on the video and from folks that are close to the situation, he didn't do anything that warrented criminal charges. Anger management classes might be a start though.

Summer of 1993 16 years old and not even a week or so out of essentials class....

Adams Road (cross of Possum in the Stillwater Hills area)... One of those tricky areas that if I recall is Town of Ossining but Yorktown Fire District... BUT if you had to describe where it was to give directions you'd say Millwood (Pinesbridge Road exit of TSP)....

Structure fire in a 1.5 story single family that started in the basement. Rode up on the old E-245 (B Model Mack) and went in on a secondary search (negative) on the main floor with Todd Kruger (then Captain now ex-chief MFC) and one other member who I cant remember who it was.

I recall a Yorktown FF being transported for eating a ton of smoke on that job.

In many cases, you will see the Truck chauffer fall in with his company if the apparatus is unable to be utilized for its aeriel capabilities due to apparatus location on the scene.

Even so, if the aeriel device isn't being used immeadiatly upon arrival, the chauffer may be throwing ground ladders, assisting with the OVM, or if the first due truck is a quint, and the MPO is operating the pump, the second due truck chauffer may be assigned to the turntable of the first due truck.

Staying with apparatus when possible is a logical choice, but the fireground is a fluid environment and having an MPO or Chauffer stay with a piece of apparatus that is onscene but not in use is not always practical.

Also, there is an inexpensive way to fix this problem.... If an apparatus is left unattended, there are kill systems that can be installed so that if the brake pedel or gear selector are moved in any way, that the engine dies. They are common in ambulances and police cars, but I've never seen one in a fire truck before.

Don't get me wrong, I think the fire should have been put out. Take the guy to court for the money later.... BUT it's very easy for the majority (not all) of the people who post on this board to be critical of this department. I spent 4 years in college working with some pretty rural fire departments in PA and MD and life there is very different than it is in the NY Metro area.

I realize that some local departments do some hard fundraising and own their firehouses or equipment but for most in the NY Metro Area that isn't the case... The fire district or municipality owns most if not all the property and equipment.

In many states unless a municipality is considered a "city" they may not have the authority to levee a fire tax (That is to say, Villages, Boroughs, Boros, Townships, Hamlets, etc who have fire departments may not have the authority to levee a fire tax... Only a City that is chartered as such). SO what you wind up with (as was mentioned before) is a department full of members that have to break their backs not only to provide fire protection, but to raise the money to pay for their property and equipment. In the NY Metro area, most departments have the luxury of having their apparatus paid for via taxes. The district puts it out to bid and the equipment is purchased....

When we're traveling through the rest of America, and see a steel building fire house with a sign out front that says "Bingo First & Third Fridays 8:00pm" and "Shrimp Feed $10.00 Per Person" it's not because they are a bunch of hokey red necks that don't have anyting to do with their Friday nights, its because they've got a mortage on the fire house, and a vehicle payment to make every month on that 20 year old used Mack CF-600 that they just bought from some department up near New York City for $30,000.

By the way, there is nothing more heartbreaking than watching a piece of fire apparatus get repossessed by the bank as the department members and their families watch helplessly.

In areas where donations and fund raising is really poor, and the population is spread out over hundreds of square miles, due to the inability of local government to subsidize fire protection, Subscription Service is a last resort. Trust me, these guys don't want to be collecting money for fire protection.

I just did some simple math...If you took the cash lump sum, you would be reciving about $150,000,000. Now if you lived 70 more years, thats $2,142,857 per year, $178,571 per month, $5952 per day if it was only 30 days in a month, and $284 per hour! HOLY CRAP!

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That's assuming that you never invested the money and had growth of principal...

If you invested the money and assumed a 5.0% average annual return compounded over 70 years (5% isn't very aggressive) it would be worth... Get ready....

$4,563,963,830.... Yup... 4.5 billion dollars....

Very disappointing. I hope that this is a result of the media trying to sensationalize the story, as I have traditionally been a big fan of the crew at Kentland.

If it is true, Andy is 100% correct. These clowns should be charged with every crime in the book. I would assume that at a minimum they could be indicted on reckless endangerment, aggravated assault, and some form of interfering with the duty of a public safety official.

There is also a question about whether or not the fight impeded the progress of supression. If so, and additional damage was done to the building during the time that the FF's were fighting, there may be a whole different charge levied on the departments by the building owner.

I've been at plenty of fires and other emergencies where crews and officers have had differing opinions.... "move your apparatus".... "pick up my line".... "why didn't you do this"... "why did you do that"..... "you're second due"... "we smoked you into your own job"...

I've seen some shoves and punches thrown in the street afterward... BUT nothing that didn't eventually get solved with a handshake....

This stuff is crazy... We're all on the same team.

Seagrave just started making midmout aerials again last year.  There keeping up with the competition with Smeal, Stuphen, Pierce and LTI American LaFrance.

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I would be interested to see what they are offering. Do you have any pictures, links, etc. that show their product. I didn't see anything on their web site when

I followed the link that N.R.F.D.~TL-11 pasted.

Can it be ordered as a quint on a single axle with a 75 foot stick.

Seagrave also makes Midmount Trucks

Click- Seagrave Midmount

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Seagrave makes Mid Mount Towers via the Aerialscope platform.

To my knowledge, Seagrave hasn't made midmount straight jobs in some time.

Until recently Ladder 41 in Ossining was a Maxim mid mount

Somers ran an American LaFrance (1950's) midmount until a few years ago

Mid mount aerial apparatus allow for a lower profile and with modern chassis design, you can often have just as much compartment space as a rear mount. In fact a modern midmount will allow for everything a rearmount will... Hose bed, pump, tank, ground ladders, compartmentation etc.

Also, there is an advantage to a mid mount in my mind... With a rear mount, if the driver doesn't back in, you lose between 30-45ft of aerial reach (the length from the turn table to the front of the apparatus.) With a mid mount, you only lose the length of the cab.

There are several manufacturers that make mid mount aerials.... These are the ones I know off the top of my head

Pierce makes a 100ft Midmount on a tandem axle

American LaFrance makes a 75, 90, 100ft Midmount on a tandem axle

Sutphen makes a 50, 65, 75ft midmount on a single axle, 104ft midmount on a tandem axle

E-One makes a 50ft midmount telesquirt on a single axle

KME makes a 100ft midmount on a tandem axle

Smeal makes a 100ft midmount on a tandem axle

Marion makes a 75ft midmount (not sure axle requirement)

Ferrara might make a 100ft midmount on a tandem axle.

1975 Plymoth Scamp Bronze with white vinyl roof and interior. 225ci slant six... Bullet proof. My brother gave me this car, but about 6 mos after, the front shock towers started to deteriorate and I was forced to scrap it.

I then purchased my first car on my own.... Red 1985 Mazda RX-7.

I personally don't think that many of the changes that are made to the equipment location in fire apparatus are really necessary.

I personally feel that it is very important for every MOS that is riding on a piece of apparatus to have an SCBA in their seating location including the driver. At this point in history, as FF's we are asked to respond to many calls that can seemingly be routine, but upon arrival we find that chemicals, hazards, etc require quick action for us to protect ourselves. An SCBA that is instantly available to all personnel on the rig is the first line of defense to protect ourselves.

Removing SCBA's from the cab will not have a major impact on safety. The riding in a piece of fire apparatus doesn't need to feel like riding in a Town Car. Modern SCBA seats are designed to allow the FF or officer to pack up and wear their seatbelt when they are done. They don't have to be as comfortable as our POV's. NOW the problem is that people just don't put their seat belt on when they are done packing up. It would be preferable for everyone to have all their gear on before they pull out of the station so that all that remains is to put on thier shoulder straps, waist strap, seat belt.

Removing SCBA's from the cab is not solving the real problem.

Small engine concept is still very important.

This was recognized in Millwood in 1990 when the Mini Attack was purchased.

It comes close to meeting engine specs

Ford F-350 Standard Cab 4x4

750gpm single stage hale

150gal water

25gal Class B

1000 feet 4inch

This unit was purchased when the old GMC which at various points in time was called E-246, MA-10, and once the Lukas tool was purchased it was renamed R-36.

This unit was broken out into the current R-36 Ford L-9000 Heavy Rescue and the Current MA-10 listed above.

MA-10 has been the main fire attack unit at several large fires in the Millwood, Northern Westchester Area at properties that have gated driveways or other difficult approaches. Most recently, it supplied a 5inch line at the Kings College Fire in Briarcliff that was stretched by Chappaqua/Millwood FD by hand aproximately 800feet up the hill through the woods from the draft site below.

I went through the same list of knots 14 years ago when I was going though essentials (preparing for FF1 which I knew I would need when I went to college a year later) at 16 years old.

Cut several pieces of rope into 24 inch sections (you won't always need that much, but when you are learning you tend to use more rope then necessary).

Take two sections of rope (several knots require joining two seperate pieces of rope) and leave them in places where you spend idle time and can practice. Several places that I found useful were:

Bathroom for when mother nature isn't in a very big hurry

In front of the TV for when commercials interrupt your shows

Car for when you're in traffic

At your job / school locker

At the fire house near your gear rack for when you are hanging out

Also print the instructions for completing each knot and leave them with each pair of rope sections that you've strategically placed.... Each an every chance you have to tie a knot, do it..... You'll get it....

Also, when you have a moment after you've mastered your knots, ask someone or look up on line how to make a swiss seat out of a length of rescue rope... Combined with an upper body tie off, you can create your own rescue harness with much of the same knowledge that comes from the figure 8 on a bite. Although I haven't had to use it, I know brothers who have either for themselves or for a civilian.

Unfortunately I've got 5 movies in a dead tie... I can't narrow it down... Some were made before I was born..

Animal House

Blues Brothers

Slap Shot

Battle of the Bulge

The Dirty Dozen

I have had this problem of trying to weed out a few since I was 13 years old.

Doesn't look like I'm going to be able to fix it any time soon.

Removed (mfc2257)

I stopped reading the posts on this thread after a while.

I simply can't believe that there is a paid vs vollie argument going on here. Paid providers exist where they are needed due to demand, staffing, and territory. Vollies are still covering areas that they have the capacity to handle. PVAC is still more than capable of covering their territory. I know this because they took my grandmother to the hospital the evening before thanksgiving and they arrived with a full crew in less than five minutes. Their crew was exceptional and included a husband/wife combo, a younger girl that appeared to be an attendant and a driver.

ON THE OTHER HAND

Pudd1 is owed an apology. He didn't imply anything. He merely asked a question that vollies have been asked for years..... How much mutual aid do you GIVE and RECIEVE. That doesn't imply a damn thing. Even the career departments in Westchester cant handle a typical structure fire on their own (Yonkers, New Rochelle, White Plains, Mt. Vernon excluded for minor structure fires)... Fairview, Greenville, Rye, Harrison, PC, Pelham, Mohegan, etc etc etc combo, career, or other call for mutual aid. Don't kill the guy because he asked how your calls break down.

Get off the career vs vollie thing. In case anyone hasn't noticed.... There have been Vollies and Career FF's working together in Westchester since the early 1900's. Not just in Yonkers either... Mohegan's first career FF began working before WWII if I'm not mistaken.... Regardless, the Vollies are still covering their territories and the Career guys are still needed where the bells ring 10-12 times a day. It's life.

GET OVER IT.

didnt mean to start a argument  just needed some clarification on the subject.

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I would assume you're replying to my novel written above... No problem, to be honest I'm a little overpassionate about it because I spent several great years of my life involved in the combination fire service spanning the counties from Southern PA, DC & Baltimore Metro Maryland, & DC Metro Virginia (sounds like a big area to be familiar with, but it's only about sixty miles from Southern, PA through the Baltimore & DC Metro areas into Northern, VA.)

I still have a bunch of friends down there who are active as Vollies, Live-ins, or Career Firefighters spanning that area.

It really is a system (group of systems by county that is) that work very very well. I've always had a hope that the NY Metro area would move in that direction from an orginizational standpoint (not just live-ins or combo stations but the whole organization of a county fire service.... Just because the county takes administrative control of policy doesn't mean that the individual companies lose thier autonomy it just makes them work together more effectively) It's hard to invision how seemless everything works down there without actually being part of it for a few years.

Anyone who has an opportunity to go ride in PG County, Baltimore County, Montgomory County, Fairfax County, Louden County, Anne Arundel County, etc I would jump on it.

I agree that battery powered devices have a tendency to run out of juice at bad times... Often after all the spare charged batteries have already been used.... On a side note, I know that DeWalt has a unit that will convert its 24v units to corded power once you are out of battery packs. It is a unit that plugs into the DeWalt device just like a battery pack, but then runs corded to a 120v AC source. A good backup.

I always made it a strong point during training, to make sure that there are backup means in place to finish a job.

A car accident for example... If I was the officer on the rig, I expected that my initial crew would begin to work with the cutters, spreaders, cribbing, etc that were our best and quickest option to free those who were entrapped. I also was sure to have someone setting up all the backup equipment as well. That ment, that the gas fired hydraulic unit was out and had been started/warmed up, that the port-a-power was out and was tested to ensure that it was full of fluid and functional, the air chisel was out and attached to a regulator and air tank, and the corded backup equipment (sawzalls) were out of their cases attached to cord reels and had fresh blades in them, etc.

Just my two cents... but I don't think that it should be assumed at any incident, that a battery powered device is going to be able to fully complete all tasks from begninning to end. I've seen them run out of juice and spare battery packs too often.

He is talking about a robbery of the Mercantile Bank near Disney on State Road 192 in Kissimmee Florida.

Indicating that the SWAT team stormed the building might suggest recklessness on their part. I caution the use of that term. I liken it to when a piece of fire apparatus is involved in an MVA that wasn't the operators fault in any way, yet witnesses say that the truck came "barrelling down the street".

From what I can gather, after all but one of the hostages were set free, the male and female criminals mood changed significantly. I would bet that the order was given based on intelligence regarding the layout of the bank, location of hostage, and other factors that the SWAT team should enter the facility.

During the course of entering the bank the robbers departed via a seperate entrance in an employee's vehicle. A short time later their progress was impeeded by police barricades. After a botched vehicle switch and threats to kill the sole remaining hostage, the male criminal was taken out by an sniper.... Presumably an Osceola County Sheriff's Unit. The female criminal is in custody.

http://www.local6.com/news/6007331/detail.html

how does a "live in " live in? who makes the rules  or are there no rules??

do they have to be in by 11??  what about drinking? or other things?? who is the " live in" police?? seems to me there are more questions !!! just because "it gets you out faster" dosent make it right . whos is responsilbe if  excrement hits the oscollating  machine?? The Department?? the village or town??  Im sure you need a lot more  things answered beffore some one uses a "live in"

just my thoughts

being that homerj or als hasent answered yet

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I've commented on this a few times before but for review.....

Live in's essentially are FF's who live in small quarters that are built into the fire station. Liken it to a college dorm "single" in most cases although at some stations they utilize military style bunk rooms or partner folks up as roomates. Typically these folks are exceptional firefighters who are willing to trade the freedom of living in their own appartment or home (and all of the incurred costs that go with it) and live at the fire house. The most notable live in programs in the US surround the Washington DC area. Prince Georges County is probably the most noted in discussion. You can visit for examples www.34box.com for the Chillim-Adelphi Station 34 in PG County or www.kentland33.com for Kentland Station 33 in PG County or www.cpvfd.org for College Park (University of Maryland) Station 12. These three as well as many others have strong live in programs. Some stations are covered solely by vollies others by a combination of career and vollie crews. The rules are set in the by-laws and sog's just like they are for any other fire department activity. You need to make a certain percent of calls in order to maintain your live in status, and obviously you are responsible for station duty and cleaning. Each department will be slightly different, but there are usually strict 8 hour or more no drinking policies before stepping on a rig as well as restrictions on having guests or significant others spending the night.

As many folks including myself have said before, the fire service (both vollie, career, and combo) in the DC metro area is quite a bit farther along in this process then anyone in the North East. People are quick to jump and pass judgement when they hear comments about live-in's, combo stations, county departments etc because they don't understand how it works... Fact of the matter is, there is a lot to be learned in Westchester, Nassau, Suffolk, and the remainder of the NYC metro area from the way the volunteer and career fire services in Baltimore, Prince Georges, Montgomory, Howard, Fairfax, Louden, Anne Arundel and other Counties that surround DC and Baltimore have been able to work together.

Is anyone familiar with how the Chicago Fire Department operates it's Squad Companies. It would appear that each company runs a short wheelbase HME Heavy Rescue (ex: Squad 5) as well as a short wheelbase HME Snorkel (ex: Squad 5a).

Does each of the two squad apparatus assigned to each company have a full crew?

Do they respond as a mated pair on all calls they are assigned to?

What is is the purpose of the Snorkel or the theory behind it's use when the department runs a standard complement of aeriel and tower devices as well?

There is very little online information about the Chicago Fire Department. It appears that there are at least 7 Squad Companies running this combination in the city, and it also looks like it's been in operation since the late 1950's. Aside from that there isn't much info.

Any takers?

Pictures can be found by going to:

http://www.firegroundphotos.net/Chicago.htm

Squad Co's 1, 2, 5 are shown with both apparatus.

In years past it has been a great idea to put a cascade on a rescue. Up until the late 1990's there were only a handful of mobile cascades in the county. Greenburgh Civil Defense, Millwood R-36, Buchannen's Utility, and (don't quote me) New Rochelle's Rescue (R-4 I believe) were the only units around. Then everyone started buying them or retrofitting their rigs with them. To my knowledge all of the following units now have air filling capacity... And I'm sure I'm missing one or two, not to mention Putnam/Fairfield County units that border Westchester Response Area.

Millwood R-36

Briarcliff R-37

Yorktown R-16

Bedford Hills R-10

Katonah R-17

Chappaqua R-23

Irvington R-49

South Salem R-34

Town of Mamaroneck R-6

Larchmont R-1

Continential Village R-39

Irvington R-49

Buchanan U-12

Croton Falls.... I forget the # it is either Rescue or Utility 28

Yonkers U-21???????

Greenburgh Department of Civil Defense U-446

At this point, there are more than enough cascades in the county. With innovation in Truck / Engine bodies and the amount of available space on modern rigs, most departments can fit their extrication equipment, water rescue equipment, and other equipment onto Trucks and Engines and eliminate the need for a dedicated rescue truck unless some form of technical or specialty rescue equipment was carried thus necessitating extra space.

That is correct. Millwood does have riding positions. Most of the time, the officer will assign them based on the crew he has, but in the absence of an officer, the positions are set inside the jumpseat by a laminated card mounted on the wall infront of the jumpseats that indicates the positions, responsibilities, as well as the tools that each spot needs to carry. Most FF's know all the positions and shouldn't need to reference the list, but it is there for folks to review if needed or to help teach newer members.

Firefighters are expected to leave the rig and immeadiately gather the tools to perform the function that they are assigned and either proceed to work via the pre arrival instructions of the Chief / OIC.... OR they are to stage at the most appropriate area for them to act if they are awaiting orders.... Regardless if it's a structure fire or alarm bells sounding.... Same preperation all the time.

Shortly after TL-27 went into service in Chappaqua, I asked them to come do a drill with us (Millwood) at Westorchard Elementary School where I held one of our annual ladder company operations drill. With the Telesquirt (E-245) and TL-27 side-by-side, we worked for a few hours on several evolutions. As of that time, Chappaqua appeared to be happy with the apparatus.

There are a few Chappaqua officers that read these pages every once and again. I'm sure one will comment on the current opinion of TL-27 at some point.

When we took delivery of E-248, there were a few snafu's that took some time to work out with the Sutphen East Corporation. Most of it wasn't Sutphens fault, it had to do with faulty equipment that was made by third parties such as the CAFS pump and the generator.

As of right now, all the issues are worked out and the rig is apparently running great. I drove it to an alarm while I was home for Thanksgiving and checked all the old problems out from when I was Captain and there were no issues.

Chappaqua's Tower Quint is not the only one of it's type. Sutphen has manufactured small towers for years. THey used to make a 60+ footer as well.

They also make mid mount quints (essentially Chappaqua's Tower without the bucket) which are great for districts with height restrictions on roads or bay doors.

I'm not really sure why Yonkers wasn't thrilled with Sutphen rigs.

The City of Orlando, FL runs Sutphens exclusively and has for decades. It would probably be easier to purchase E-One's since the factory is only 60 miles from Orlando, but they continue to purchase Sutphens.

They have 15 front line engines in 14 stations)

6 or 7 90+ ft towers

1 Heavy Rescue (one of the biggest I've ever seen)

1 Hazmat Unit

Several Spare Towers, Engines that are all Sutphens.

They just took delivery of more apparatus to replace older rigs this year.