mfc2257

Powercall's sound great. They are used all over the Mid-Atlantic but don't appear to be that popular in the NY Metro area.

They've got that old school wail that sounds totally different than a typical electric siren.

Theres got to be somthing better than Sutphen?!

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Yes there is apparatus out there that are better than Sutphen. BUT given the fact that the Commissioners haven't found a solution for a new fire house, the rig will need to fit in the lower bay at Headquarters. Height restrictions limit the type of aerial devices to mid mounts. In a perfect world a rig like L-10 or L-47 would be a prime choice. The world isn't perfect and that leaves the options for 75ft, single axle, mid mount quints at one manufacturer.... Sutphen.

There are a lot of Sutphen haters out there but most of the problems that you hear about are bugs that get worked out in the first year or so. When we took delivery of E248, the Sparten/Sutphen mentioned before, we had some compartment fit issues (Sutphen's fault), AMP's generator issues (AMP's fault), and well Sutphen completely ignored the specs that I wrote for the emergency lighting system (Sutphen's fault). Otherwise no major issues that I can remember.

Lets face it, most fire trucks are nothing like the one that rolled off the line before or after it. They all have some problems when they are new given the custom nature. Everyone hated the twin E-One Kenworths in Millwood, yet one lasted 22 years and the other is still getting the job done. People have complained about Seagrave quality for 5 years but they're still rolling of the line with as much loyalty as ever. The Sutphen will do fine.

What is most important about all of this, is that the FF's in Millwood are going to get a safe, modern, and ultimately reliable piece of apparatus that will allow them to continue to protect the tax payers of the district. It's time to move the boys off of an open jump seat into an enclosed cab to keep them safe, and it's time to start planning for the next 20 years. The Sutphen, in the absence of a new fire station to put a rear-mount in, will give the FF's the tool they need to get the job done. When more help is needed the great companies who staff TL-14, L-51, TL-40, L-41/42, TL-27, TL-44, TL-1, TL-5, TL-12, and TL-57 are all 10 minutes or less away to assist.

I'm jealous that I didn't get to participate in the design process and that I won't have an opportunity to ride/drive the new rig. Hopefully I'll move back some day and become active at MFC again.

To tell you the truth, that's what firetrucks look like just about everywhere else in the world except North America. There are obviously some units that companies like Ferrara have delivered overseas as specialty units.

I would suspect that those rigs run high pressure pumps (thousands of pounds of pressure) through lines not much bigger than a pressure washer and carry very little water.

Those rigs aren't much bigger than a standard FedEx delivery van.

That's what I call a B.L.S. (Block Long Squad)

When I was an officer in Millwood I consistantly asked for the commissioners to consider selling Rescue 36 while we can/could still get a decent amount of money for it. There was a time when Millwood, The Department of Civil Defense, and U-12 out of Buchannan were the only mobile units filling bottles.... Hence the reason why R-36 went to the appartment fire in Pelham, and the Propane Truck vs. overpass in White Plains.

Now just like with Tower Ladders, Westchester County (especially Volunteer Departments) are saturated with Cascades.

Date: 3-21-07

Time: 2100hrs

Location: PG County - DC Border Inner Loop of Capital Beltway I495 South of I295

Departments: Various PG County, Alexandria, VA, DC Rescue 3, Fairfax County, VA Rescue 411, MSP Trooper Air Medical, Eagle One Air Medical

Description: PG County Rescue Squad 47 (Allentown Road VFC) Rolled OVer

Links: thewatchdesk.com & pumpfire.com

Writer: MFC2257

Just got an email about this from a buddy on the job in DC.

RS 47 involved in a MVA with a van (later updated to a 18 wheeler). Three MOS trapped in RS 47. PG County RS-27 (Morningside VFC) put to work with split crews to extricate. DC Rescue 3 added to assist. Alexandria, VA to handle original MVA that RS 47 was responding to.

Three (updated to four) FF's Flown by Maryland State Police Troopers 2 & 8 to PG County Trauma Priority 1. Alexandria, VA E205 with the LZ. A total of 5 air medical units for FF's and civilians.

DC Rescue 3 and Fairfax, VA Rescue 411 also performing containment for HAZMAT runoff until PG County HM30 can access the scene.

I was at a job ten or more years ago in Armonk and there were there serving Coffee and Beef Stew.

It was stupid cold out and my gloves had frozen in the shape of an 1 3/4 handline... which odly enough is the perfect shape for a small cup of coffee to be perfecly dropped into without having to close your hand around it.

It's been a while since I've seen a S.A. truck at a job though.

I have deleted all my posts because I really don't get what mcf2257 is getting at. So here is my answer to what the question was. If you are dispatched to a fire and you pass a car accident that needs the tools you call the IC and advise of the situation and ask what they want. You do not self dispatch we already had that topic.

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I too have deleted any posts regarding our side conversation.

My long post is one of many that I've made because I feel that it's important for the volunteer side of the county to start reducing the redundancy in apparatus sitting in stations and to start getting dispatched in a way that brings the needed apparatus to the scene in a timely matter. For some this will include the addition of career staffing to supplement the volunteers. For others, it will mean doing what i said in my post.... Figuring out which apparatus will be added ANYWAY on just about any WSF or major incident, and include it as part of the initial dispatch.

One of the major flaws in the Westchester County dispatching system, is that we're still allowing a single department to be the sole dispatch to a structure fire OR an extrication and wait for an officer to request the additional units that are usually needed. The problem ISN't necessarily that there is a lack of manpower or apparatus in any single department, but rather there are tons of circumstances that would prevent the first due apparatus from arriving... well, first due.

Just about anywhere else in the world, if a working structure fire is dispatched (in Millwood for example) a full assignment would be filled out and it would have an engine or two plus a rescue or truck coming from neighboring departments.... for a reported working structure fire at the supermarket for example... One would expect that immeadiatly E-245 from HQ and E-248 from the West End would be out the door.... If there is a wreck on the TSP while E-248 is enroute, it could significantly slow that rig down OR require it to stop to render aid. Now E-245 is waiting on E-247 to complete it's water supply but as the second piece out of a station there may be a delay in its response by a few mintues.

What's the logical solution to this.... What most of the country started doing years ago.... Filling out box cards and having them as part of the CAD.... The dispatch should look like.... Millwood PLUS E-146, E-94, L-41 on the initial alarm assignment... No human intervention needed. If upon arrival the OIC only needs E-245, E-248, E-146, E-94, and L-41, then guess what.... Millwood E-247 remains in quarters and becomes the standby crew instead of having a neighboring department do it. If the job goes to a second alarm then E-247 is the first Engine on the second alarm plus whatever is already listed as the second alarm assignment on that box card. Bedford Hills has started a basic version of this and even have an example of it on their web site.... But I still believe that the additional units are only activated after the OIC escalates the call to WSF or Second Alarm.... I could be wrong though.

What's the downside to this... For the taxpayers NONE... For the EGO's out there Boo Hoo, occasionally you'll get smoked into your own territory by one of the neighboring departments that's on the first alarm. Wow... It would be really bad if the boyz from Ossining or Briarcliff were throwing ladders or laying in when E-245 rolls up... OR vice versa... I pulled up to a WSF with E247 at a Chappaqua fire just as E145 (first due) arrived a few years back ... I didn't see any tears or complaints from their crew when we went to work at the same time.

SO to answer the question, if a rig passes an event enroute to another and needs to render aid, there should be a system in place where the next due rig is already on the road and the first due rig can stop, and call to be replaced on the box assignment. Again NO human intervention needed.

Diesel fuel (same as #2 oil)

Generally, diesel engines make much more low end torque than their gasoline counterparts especially at low RPM because of the high compression ratios necessary to ignite the fuel 17:1 (all firemen should know that gas is much more volatile).  It is true that a diesel engine is more efficient overall than gas BUT it takes 25% more crude oil to produce a finished gallon of diesel than it does to make a gallon of gas.  It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that diesel will generally always be more expensive than gas.  Diesel engines have trouble starting in very cold weather without a block heater as the fuel has a tendency to gel.  Also because of the ignition system that includes glow plugs proper starting and warm-up of the engine is highly recommended.  When seconds count waiting for glow plugs and engine temp to rise is not a good thing

Gas engines generally make more horsepower than equivalent size diesels, they rev faster and have higher RPM peaks than do diesels.  That combination makes for better 0-60mph times and and more driving "speed".  Gas engines also have an advantage in short term maintinence required (long term diesel has a huge advantage), they necessitate less crank case oil, don't require much care until 80k or so.

My answer to this question is Gas.....

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Don't want to start an argument here, but where are you getting your information regarding the amount of crude needed make a gallon of diesel vs. a gallon of gasoline. By nature diesel is a less refined product than gasoline and thus logic would argue that it takes less crude to make a gallon of diesel vs. a gallon of gasoline. Historically, diesel has been less expensive than gasoline. I would argue, that the reason behind the diesel price premium over the past 18-24 months is more a product of demand. Since the turn of the century (2000 that is) look at the number of Cummins, Duramax, and Powerstroke diesels that have been placed into service where gasoline fired V-8's had been used historically. I'd argue that more than half of all 3/4 ton and heavier service pickups sold today come with diesel power. 15 years ago, no one was buying underpowered, smoke belching diesels.... ESPECIALLY people buying pickups for personal use. Today, everyone's got a shiny new diesel fired rig with leather interior and satallite radio. There has been a greater demand for government use as well with the majority of vans being powered by diesels as well. The delivery industry has followed as well with just about every brand name carrier using diesel power for local delivery. SO how does this all translate into price, there aren't enough diesel refineries to keep up with the increased demand over the past 15 years. When International turbocharged the Navistar (Powerstroke), Chevy started using Izuzu's Duramax, and Cummins put at 24valve head on their trusty 5.9L, diesels started making equal horsepower and GOBS more torque than gas fired motors. Too much demand for diesel, not enough supply = higher costs.

Not seeing the logic on where a diesel has more short term maintenance concerns than a gas fired rig.

Compare diesel horsepower and torque ratings to gas fired motors over the past 7-8 years and I think you'll find that most of the time the diesel's on par or has an advantage.

If you do the math with regard to initial cost (which is high... but) increased fuel economy, lack of need for maintenence, and life expectancy..... A diesel is the ONLY option for a vehicle that is expected to be used for more than 5 years.

Let us not forget too, that the high torque of a diesel motor allows for transmissions to be shifting less often in stop and go traffic because they do not require nearly the amount of downshifts to maintain road speed in a congested enviorment.

Finally the resale value of a diesel either at auction or on the open market is much higher than a gasoline powered rig.

Downfalls: High initial cost, currently (although not historically) diesel is more expensive

Benefits: MUCH better fuel economy, less wear on the tranny, less maintenence costs, better low end power (which is what most duty vehicles need) better resale value.

I wonder if this is going to effect anything for the Nextel Cup series race later this year

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If the building is a total loss, it will limit some of the VIP hospitality that goes on at the club during the race. As far as the remainder of the event goes, it shouldn't make a difference.

That sucks... I used to race my Porsche at Watkins Glen... The Club is a great place when they have dinners and parties on race weekend.

A few others running "Q's"

Ladder 4

TL-135 (it's not a Q but it's a mechanical siren as shown on the cover of this months Fire Engineering.)

Down here in Winter Park, the Ambulance/Rescue that turns out of the station a block from my house uses a EQ2 and the Engine runs a standard Q... Up close I can tell the difference, but I'll have to admit that there have been times that I've been working in the yard and heard one of the two rigs pull out and without seeing them I couldn't make out the difference. If the EQ2 is placed on the "wail" equivalent setting you can tell that it's not a real "Q" because it has a perfectly measured up and down cycle unlike a real "Q" where the operators foot decides when its screeming vs. growling.

In Westchester I haven't seen many EQ2's... But I think E-257 and E-258 have them.

As for the vans..... I'd be really dissapointed if Ford axed the van lineup. I'm a little confused... Are they just getting rid of the E-450 or are they doing away with the entire Econoline from the E-150 on up. What about their commercial super heavy duty van line-up (E-450 & E-550?) that come with the black fender flairs and the slightly raised ride heights... Are they going too.... I don't follow vans much... Below however is the next gen info as I've recieved it for the new diesel...

The new Ford diesel will be a twin turbo International-Harvester Built (like it is now) next generation Navistar V-8. I'll make around 400hp and almost 700lbft of torque as of press time on the preliminary unveiling.

I've owned both of the previous generation single turbo Navistars and never had any trouble. In fact I'd say the 7.3L may be the best I've ever driven especially after adding a chip, new up-pipe from the manifold to the turbo, and a turbo-back exhaust. The 6.0L I thought could have made more power (even though stock it made more power than the 7.3L) down low for pulling an 18,000 pound 5th wheel trailer.

FYI - The new Cummins option for 2007 Ram's is up from 5.9L to 6.7L and now makes 350hp and 650lbft of torque. A 6speed auto now replaces the 4speed as the automatic option on rigs with a Cummins plant in them.

We have the whole Locust area, Hardscrable area, Mountain Rd, and Usiona area with no hydrants or really low pressure. When I became Chief I change the pre plans to Tanker Opps.  We use to lay over 5000' of hose, now we call Millwood and Pocantico Hills Tankers on any possible Structure or inside smoke.  Now we can not tax the other departments and help ourselfs.

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If you haven't called already, I'm sure Mike (2252) and the boyz in Millwood would love to come meet with you guys to see what your SOP/SOG's for the new rig will be.... And to do a join Tanker drill so that everyone is in the know for when it really counts.

Congrats...

Truck 75 (7-5) sounded the MayDay on the #2 floor. Members created an egress and all members accounted for shortly after.

Roll call from the scene... Any apparatus with DAU following the designation is from Dauphin County, anything with LEB is from Lebanon County.

Off one of the PA webpages

37 pieces of apparatus on the scene

COLLAPSE-6-5-1

ENGINE-2-12-1

ENGINE-7-10-1

ENGINE-7-11-1

ENGINE-7-11-2(E)

ENGINE-7-4-2

ENGINE-7-5-1

ENGINE-7-9-2

ENGINE-8-4-1

MEDIC-7-4-1(A)

MEDIC-7-7-3(A)

MEDIC-7-7-6(A)

RESCUE-2-3

RESCUE-2-6

RESCUE-6-5

RESCUE-8-4-1

SQUAD-6-5-1

SQUAD-6-5-2

SQUAD-7-15(A)

SQUAD-7-5

TANKER-2-12

TANKER-2-2(T)

TANKER-2-6

TANKER-3-LEB

TANKER-54-DAU(T)

TANKER-7-1

TANKER-7-10

TANKER-7-11

TANKER-7-6

TANKER-7-8

TRUCK-2-3

TRUCK-2-6

TRUCK-6-7

TRUCK-7-19

TRUCK-7-4

TRUCK-7-5

TRUCK-88-DAU

Everyone needs to read this article!  It is the 2nd part to the PASS alarm story. 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16991877/

This is typical federal/congressional bull$hit.  And it could seriously effect our safety.

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One of the most dissapointing things that I've ever read. To be honest, I believe the CDC is not the proper department to head up this type of investigation.

Frankly, given the technical nature of many FF deaths including collapse, HAZMAT, etc., I would say that the NTSB is infinatly more prepared to investigate than the CDC. The NTSB, by it's very nature has to carefully preserve evidence in large train and aircraft incidents, as well as determine mechanism of the the incident.

I could be wrong here, but I think it's time to switch the focus away from the CDC and more towards a technical agency better equipped to handle these incidents.

2 career FF's injured in a volly dept........interesting

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Prince Georges County FD (and most others like it in MD and VA).... If you can't get your rigs out with vollies the county will provide career staff. If you refuse career staff your rigs will come off of county fuel, maintenence, and insurance... The county will stop recognizing you as a department and you will be eliminated from the box cards and no longer dispatched.... even in your first due.

I'll be there.... Back straight grandstands.... halfway up.

http://www.rhvfd.org/index.html

Just as Riverdale Heights was getting back on their feet with their finances and avoiding reposession of their apparatus, it looks like two of their career boys and a volly were injured in an apparatus MVA involving a DWI t-boning them.

Driver with an injured leg, FF in jumpseat with a concussion, guy riding the seat with a minor injury to the back. All said to be home and hoping to return shortly.

Here are the Lighting and Siren Specifications that a Virginia Fire Department has layed out for there New 2007 Seagrave Ladder Truck:

The warning package will include a Powercall Siren, Federal Q2B, Dual Mars 888 Warning Lights and a RotoRay Warning Light System.

Now having both the Mars 888's and the Roto Ray is very impressive.

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That's Gettysburg PA's (not Virginia) new 2007 Seagrave... My old department. I own their old B-Model Mack.

I could be wrong, but I think we have 4 USAR teams in Florida....

Central Florida (Orlando, Orange County Fire Rescue, Seminole County Fire Rescue)

North Florida (Jacksonville)

West Florida (Tallahassee)

South Florida (Miami-Dade)

Really I could be wrong here, but I remember seeing 4 seperate regional rigs for the state.

For those following this issue, please see the section bolded below. These guys aren't out of the woods yet, but it's a step.

Officials: Volunteer firefighting system not broken

From The Morning Examiner dated 2 February 2007

Daniel Fowler, The Examiner

http://www.examiner.com/a-540910~Of... t_broken.html

Prince George’s County - Prince George’s will not review its system of relying on volunteer fire companies to purchase and own much of the county’s firefighting fleet despite at least two instances where stations had or almost had vehicles repossessed, according to acting Fire/EMS spokesman Maj. Chauncey Bowers.

On Wednesday, an attorney for the Riverdale Heights Volunteer Fire Department and Rescue Squad said the station avoided repossession of two fire trucks and a rescue squad vehicle by borrowing $40,000 from another volunteer department.

But, Bowers said, “this process of individual companies purchasing equipment is not a broken system. This situation ... with Riverdale Heights is a rare occurrence.”

About six years ago, Bowers said, the county’s Hillside volunteer company had fire apparatus repossessed and then the station closed within 18 months. “The repossession was the issue there, but ultimately what led to the closing I’m not sure if there were other factors,” he said. Bowers said volunteer companies own about 60 percent of the county’s heavy equipment fleet, including fire trucks and rescue squads.

Montgomery County, meanwhile, owns approximately 85 percent of its heavy equipment fleet and has never had emergency apparatus repossessed, according to the county’s Fire and Rescue spokesman, Pete Piringer. “It’s hard to imagine that happening here,” Piringer said. Though Piringer would not say Montgomery County’s system is better, he said having a majority county owned fleet offers “more of a guarantee” of protection. “If you are solely relying on volunteer funds, there may be times when resources aren’t available,” he said. Still, Piringer said it is “not really fair” to compare the two counties because “the resources are so vastly different.”

Prince George’s officials say the county said it has allocated more than $500,000 to the Riverdale Heights station in the past five years, including money for operation, fuel, maintenance, insurance and payments on apparatus.

Riverdale Heights resident Janice Martin said Wednesday she is “not sure” whether she would be more comfortable with Montgomery County’s system, but was “surprised to find out how few of the apparatus is owned by [Prince George’s] County.”