mfc2257

As i said before, there is no mention of an ALS unit in the press releases.

The only complaints i see are manpower, call turnaround, and space.

Just to respond to your "call out" I'm really not obsessed with whether or not they end up getting an ambulance. I really could care less. What i do care about is their characterization of EMS.

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Ok last time... I know this one is tough

If they had a problem with EMS they wouldn't provide EMS care to patients with EMT's on their MiniPumper or Engine when the MiniPumper is tied up.

There are already volunteer, career, and combo BLS units that are providing ample BLS transport in 33's first due.... (Think of it this way, Bedford Hills is doing a fine job of providing Truck Company Operations in Katonah and Bedford Village... No need to force a truck on them right?.... It was more logical for Katonah to buy a new tanker than a truck.....)

What they have a problem with is staffing a county owned BLS ambulance that will take their men away from the calls that they are best at providing services for which is putting out fires and cutting people out of cars. There is plenty of BLS transport being provided in 33's first due. AND 33 is providing the critical EMS first response....

Again this isn't about the BLS unit... It's about POWER. The county chief is trying to exert POWER over a volunteer company... Nothing more.... nothing less.

There is one thing i'm sure of, E-One has NEVER had a catastrophic failure OR a tip over of one of their aluminum built aerials, the steel you mentioned could only be their Bronto product which is built in Finland and the Fire Apparatus part of Bronto has been a part of E-One since the late 90's (approx.) with no known failures. I'll give you the paint issues from the past etc... I guess LFDR1 would know why E-One (if it was indeed one) was to blame for aging equipment supplied by another vendor would have caused the rig to do whatever it did...

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I hadn't ever heard of an E-One failure but I've been curious. I've had two E-One's (the two Kenworth garbage truck chassis twins that were bough by Millwood in 1982) under my care and my biggest complaint was electrical and compartment fit. Even after multiple alternator upgrades, you couldn't keep TS-2 (E245) and E248 from discharging on the scene even with all the emergency lighting shut down. It was a big drain from the start. BUT the rigs were strong and pumped like hell.... But I guess you can give credit to that for the Detriot 6v92t's the Allison trannies and the Hale 1500gpm two stages and not to E-One.

So, they pride themselves in 7,000 calls, allot being fire, (or whatever) but don't want an ambulance because of burnout?

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At the end of this post I am going to call 66Alpha1 out... The moderators will probably deleate it, but I'm not insulting or bashing him so it should stay put because it's the truth......

They pride themselves on being a phenomenal FD that provides top notch fire/rescue services and EMS first responder services of which they respond to thousands of calls annually.

They don't want a BLS ambulance because it's not a BLS ambulance that thier first due needs.... It's a ALS ambulance that their first due needs and it's not something that they are prepared to staff based on thier training.....

GET IT STRAIGHT 66Alpha1 you are so obsessed with the fact that they don't want to staff a county owned ambulance that you are missing the point which has nothing to do with how important EMS is...... THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH EMS AND OR KENTLAND's VIEW OF ITS IMPORTANCE. ITS ABOUT HAVING TO STAFF A UNIT THAT IS BEING FORCED ON YOU FOR POLITICAL REASONS WITH NO REGARD FOR THE FACT THAT A CAREER STAFFED MICU IS WHAT THE COMMUNITY NEEDS.

Wow... people are missing a ton here because they are getting their feelings hurt and/or not listening to the facts.... If you've got no experience running in PG county OR a county run FD with career and vollie staffing you should step back. There are prominant posters on this page who are making strong comments about agencies they don't have a clue about. Lets review here before anyone's panties get bunched and they need an ambulance to transport them for a crotchectimy:

1: The boys at 33 have wicked egos that are getting annoying AND/BUT they are good at what they do.

2: 33 does provide EMS in the form of an EMT staffed MiniPumper to EMS calls in thier first due. If the MiniPumper is unavailable the Engine responds.

3: THE BOYS AT 33 AREN'T REFUSING AN AMBULANCE BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT TO PROVIDE EMS.... ITS BECAUSE THE COUNTY CHIEF IS FORCING IT DUE TO THE HISTORICAL FACT THAT AMBULANCES ARE A GREAT WAY TO WEAR OUT THE VOLUNTEERS IN AN IMPOVERISHED COMMUNITY THAT USES THEM AS A SHUTTLE TO GET TO THE HOSPITAL FOR ROUTINE MEDICAL CARE THAT THE REST OF US WOULD MAKE AN APPOINTMENT AT THE DOCTOR FOR.

4: Read #3 and make sure that you can understand that logic is not the principal that can be applied here. The county chief has an agenda to eliminate the volunteers. THIS IS NOT THE WISHES OF THE CAREER FIRE STAFF IN PG COUNTY JUST THE LEADERSHIP.

5: The proper solution to this issue isn't a BLS unit in 33's station as there are plenty of BLS units running into 33's first due now. A MICU (medic ambulance) IS NEEDED IN 33's FIRST DUE, STAFFED BY CAREER PERSONNEL TO HANDLE THE ALS NEEDS THAT AREN'T BEING MET CURRENTLY AND CANNOT BE MET BY BLS VOLUNTEERS AT 33. I'll repeat incase you missed it, the need is for a career staffed ALS unit which the volunteers cannot provide. There needs to be a career staffed ALS unit that in this first due will be busy enough that it won't need a station to run out of.... It'll always be on the move.

6: There are lots of people on this web site that aren't willing to stand up and tell the ego filled leadership in Westchester County that's afraid to change the way that that emergency services are handled but that are willing to criticize other agencies out of state. When you've got the balls to stand up to the ego's in your own department, then start moving on to others.

7: Go back and read my previous post about other tools that the county chief is using against the volunteers as leverage.

8: Put yourself in these guys shoes... You've got volunteers that are successfully running in the Washington DC metro area comparable to the NYC metro areas of Mount Vernon, Yonkers, New Rochelle, and White Plains. Just last week, PG County Truck 9 (Bladensburg) staffed with 100% volunteers was transferred to a DCFD station for standby. 33 transfers into the district as well.... 2nd busiest engine or not (I'll agree the total response numbers are BS and their claim of 2nd busiest engine in the country include the responses for engines 331, 332, 333 and possibly the minipumper), this station still answers 7000 calls for service annually.... And they are 100% volunteer. They also serve what is historically the toughest working fire district in America. So Seth may be buddies with some folks with LA E33, but I'd like to see the comparable # of working fires that are being run before judgement is past.

9: As I've said before, I'm not anti career or pro vollie (although I'm a 15 year vet of the vollie service).... What I am is ANTI BULL SH!T.... Don't talk smack about something you know nothing about or something you've never experienced.

Two big issues here (this is from my experience both as someone who as run in PG county in the past, and someone who still has good friends down there)

1: This problem exists because the people of Prince Georges County have long abused the EMS system and it truly has become as much of a taxi service as it is a competant, safe, and effective system for providing medical care and transport for those in need. People who don't have cars or doctors (which many in PG county don't) simply call for an ambulance when they've got a fever and go to the hospital where they are required to be seen and then never pay the bill becuase they've got no cash or insurance. Meanwhile, the ambulance is OOS for an hour during this call while they are serving a BS response. Those who truly need EMS care are being screwed by the folks that abuse the system.

2: The fire chief for the county has long had an agenda to kill the volunteers off. He hates the strong vollie stations in the county because they aren't directly under his control. He wants everything to be 100% his way or the highway. SO he'll use an ambulance to try and break the backs of the vollies by telling them that if they don't take a county meat wagon and run it, that he'll pull county fuel, maintenance, and insurace from the vollie stations rigs and restrict them to only running calls in their first due even if they were willing to foot the bill for those costs on their own.

Make no mistake about it, the volunteer companies are their own Maryland corporations and cannot have an ambulance forced on them. On the other hand, the chief of the county department controls when and how they are dispacthed, and whether or not Station 33 will have the cost of fuel, maintenance, and insurance covered for the over 7000 calls for service that they respond to annually.

The guys at 33 have become ego maniacs over the past 5 years there is no mistake about that. BUT, they turn out a 2 man minipumper for EMS calls, two 4 or 5 man engines, one 4-5 man rescue engine (squad), and a 5-6 man truck with 100% volunteers 24 hours a day. There are times when they take the other engine from 46 or 37's station and staff a 4th 4-5 man engine when they've got the manpower to do it.

If the county chief was really looking out for the people, he'd put a career MICU in the area and leave the vollies alone. The alternative is to take one of those fully staffed pieces of fire apparatus off the road. The result will be an understaffed volly or career rig from another station running on a fire or rescue call, while the boys from 33 are waiting at the hospital for an hour with some kid with a cold.

I'm not sticking up just for 33 here, there are other great volunteer companies in the county that deserve support regardless if they have an ambulance or not. Some strong volunteer companies have career staff on for a portion or all of the day running the ambo or even operating volunteer owned apparatus. Generally the career staff and the vollies get along great. It's the career leadership at the top of the county level that is cancer to the department.

Well it's easy to blame E-One here, but honestly the transfer case, engine, pump, and transmission aren't parts that are built by E-One, they are built by Hale, Cat, Allison and their competitors.

On the other hand, blaming E-One for using crappy body parts, poor fit and finish, sub-par wiring, and shotty paint, etc. is well within reason.

On another E-One note, they build their own ladders both steel and aluminum.... Does anyone know if they've ever had a manufacturer related issue that has resulted in a aeriel device failure?

I found this site of Chicago FD incidents. The photos are great.

http://www.nordfirephotos.smugmug.com

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I love the Snorkel-Squads.... The photo's prove that they are a great way to access Brownstone-Townhouse style buildings on tree lined streets.

I'm interested to know who owns the manufacturing rights to "Snorkel". I haven't seen a new one built outside of Chicago rigs for years. I know that there is one in the Bayonne or Elizibeth NJ area that is less than 10 years old, but that's just about all I know of out there.

They are great for working below grade on rescue calls as well.

Is it me, or are there alot of true wacker depts. in Maryland, Pennsylvania & parts of Virginia???

I'm all for making your rigs safe, but come on now  !

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Not trying to start an argument here, but as a former PA and MD firefighter that has been involved with departments in 6 counties.....Wacker or not, they are 9 times out of 10 top notch departments that just about every agency in Westchester could learn a thing or two from. Don't knockem until you've worked with them....

Good point.

I am not sure of their locations, but there have been several Department's featured in some of the trade magazines, who feel that 4 Federal Qs, 2 Mars lights, and a Roto-Ray are needed on the front end of a rig (on top of the dual-preconnected hydrualic tools).

Is this a safety issue or complete waste of taxpayers money? (but I am sure they generate a lot of conversation at the parades and musters........)

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Parades and Musters aren't nearly as big a deal outside of NY and New England. Most of the goofy overboard setups on these rigs are installed at the cost of the volunteers after the rig has been delivered just like FDNY units that choose to instal Federal Q's on their rigs.

Most of these departments don't get much tax payer money because in VA and PA (Commonwealths not states by charter) there are strict rules about levying fire taxes... Most departments pay for these rigs (the whole rig not just the toys) through the sweat of the vollies doing fund raising like carnivals, dinners, bingo, raffels, golf tourneys etc.

No offense to Westchester as a whole.... I lived there all my life minus the past two years... BUT before we start getting critical of a goofy light setup on a rig etc.. why don't we look at the TRUE waste of taxpayer money in Westchester.....

Why do we need the number of Tower Ladders that we have.... Why do volunteer departments have 5 engines when they can only staff 2 or 3, why do we have the number of cascades that we have.... The truth is that the average Westchester department could provide high quality fire protection with (excluding Mini attacks and Tankers) 2 engines a truck or quint, and some way to provide rescue services (either with a dedicated rescue or carry the tools on a rescue engine)..... But everyone's got to have a fully stacked deck of apparatus... and god forbid one is out of service and you've got to rely on a truck from the next town over.....

Oh it drives me crazy.... He're one worse than that....

In 1997 or so Medic 28 (Gettysburg Hospital) and Ambulance 1A1 (Gettysburg FD) dispatched to an old folks home for a Syncopal Episode.

We had to transport but the pt was CAO and stable at the time. His status was what we referred to as class 2 which meant he needed medical attention but was stable. Unfortunatly Gettysburg Hospital and the two next closest (Hanover and York) were on divert for class 2 pt's for a lack of beds (only Class 1's that would be stabilized and transferred OR class 3's that would be treated and released were going there) so we had to go to Chambersburg over 40 miles away.

The other medic followed us the whole way while her partner rode with us instead of returning to Gettysburg Hospital to await another call.... WHICH came about 15 mintues after we departed.... Another medic (46) had to come all the way from Hanover hospital into Adams county to cover a serious pin job.

Just a terrible waste of resources.... I can think of others on the fire side recently in Westchester to rant about but I'll save it for another time.

Shoulda saved the $1000 it cost to buy the second roto-ray and put a set of 888's on it.

I like the train set on Shrewsbury's Squad.... Trying to clear traffic on Route 30 going through York county is like trying to herd cats.....

any way you can get/take some pics?

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If the Wekiva Reserve is still burning this tomorrow I may be able to. Other wise It'll be tough to get the time.

There is a subtropical storm off the east coast and that hopefully will help extinguish the fires. If it doesn't make landfall though it's wind will only hurt.

There are so many brush fires in all of Florida right now that smoke has visability at highly reduced levels state wide.

The Georgia wildfires have jumped the state line into Nassau, Baker, Columbia, Hamilton Counties in the North... In Central Florida the Wekiva Reserve is burning in Seminole & Orange Counties and there are big fires in Lake and Flagler Counties, and I-75 is closed in several spots in SW Florida through Manatee, Sarasota, Charlotte, Lee, and Collier Counties.

I woke up this morning with my new Dodge Ram covered in ash particles. The Citrus bowl in Orlando is a 1/2 mile from the I4 SR408 interchange and is usually clear as day.... It's totally blocked by the haze of smoke that has filled downtown Orlando.

Union Fire Company No. 1 of Carlisle, PA operates a 1996 4X4 Dodge brush truck with 250 gallons of water, 10 gallons of class a foam, a 200' booster reel and 1,000' of forestry line. It also has a 12,000 lb. winch and all of the various tools found on a brush truck.

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I've run with Carlisle a time or two... If I recall, Union Fire Company is Station 41 with the Engine, Tanker, Quint, & Brush... A buddy of mine was on the job at Station 40 and I was supposed to drive the Heavy Rescue one night when the Volunteers were having their banquet as the standby coverage but Gettysburg had a big job and at the last minute another company covered for us as the standby crew.

I miss my days in PA.... We ran the Truck and Hose Wagon 35 miles to Carlisle or Chambersburg massive jobs a time or two.

Were you guys at the big job in Aspers over the winter with 41's tanker?

Seems like a really capable rig for it's size. I'd love to see a pic of the 4 inch pack. I'm impressed.

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Grumpy.... As usual here comes a really long, but hopefully helpful answer...

The hose pack for MA-10 (and subsequently all Millwood rigs) is accomplished using a little trick I learned while at college in Gettysburg, PA.... (I give credit to them a lot because in the 4 years that I was there I learned an invaluable amount of fire/rescue knowledge).... To my knowledge, Millwood hasn't changed this method since moved to Florida.

Instead of packing the couplings for the LDH by keeping them in the bed with the hose and using dutchmen folds or other methods of keeping them in line with the hose, what we started doing was to leave 1.5 feet in front of the hose bed empty and each time you had a new coupling you would bring it forward and lay all of them together in the void at the front of the hose bed and then short your next length without the coupling so that you get a perfect fold at the end of the hosebed that faces the back bumper.

The end result is being able to fit a significant amount of additional hose in the bed because there is no inefficient folding with the couplings taking up odd space in the bed.

The hose bed is literally flat.

The only caution is that at the front of the bed where the other lengths fold up against the 1.5ft space that is reserved for the couplings, at times the wind can get ahold of the folds and peel them back resulting in an accidential 55mph hose lay on Route 100 or the TSP. The way to avoid this is to place an bungee across the front of the hose bed aprox. 2ft behind the front folds. When the occasional wind gust peels one up the bungee will hold it until the buffeting stops, but when you're laying in, there is enough elasticity to allow the coupling to be pulled under.

If this method is used properly (meaning you don't half asss the packing) you can fit about 35-40% more hose on your rig. It also works well for quints with hose shutes because the coupling has time to line up with the shute before it enters it. in a traditional pack with a dutchmen close to the shute, the coupling may be unfolding from the side as it enters the shute and can get caught on it or bounce into the turntable and get caught if it is exposed from above.

I'm a life long volly and I've got to say that the idea of back tracking and trying to get vollies to fill spots where career staff were used isn't realistic. The fire/ems volume as well as the additional training needed to respond to ship fires would be too much to try and get off the ground in a reasonable time.

I'm all for vollies where they can handle the call volume, career where the stats require a full time agency, and combo inbetween. BUT to recreate a combo department where a career agency existed is a no win.

The only time I've seen this even close to happening is in a county wide department where career staff were placed in a station to supplement vollies and then the vollie leadership was able to recruit, motivate, & train enough vollies to cover the response need. The county then will often withdraw the career FF's if the assessment is that the vollies can handle the needs of the station.

Bayonne should stay with career only Jakes. No brainer.

The FHP (Florida Highway Patrol) has gone to either mostly blue with a touch of red LED bars OR totally blue slick tops with all LED's.

They are so bright that you can see them from MILES, not just a mile away, on super long and straight Florida roads like the Turnpike and I-75.

Wouldn't that fall under an Act of God?

I am not sure of the full situation, possibly could have been caused by an underground drainage pipe that had leaked, or some other situation, in which case that landowner or DPW/DOT would assume responsibility?

I could not get close enough to see exactly what was under it, or what may have caused it.

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As an aside, this is an example of why it's so important to properly open and close hydrants. If water is consistantly flowing through the drain because the hydrant wasn't properly operated this is the result that you can expect at a minimum.

Hope I didn't just kill the thread.

I've seen a handful of ConEd Emergency Response Supervisors Tahoes that have amber lightbars (as you'd expect) but have red and clear dash lights and grille lights.

I believe if it is a ConEd related emergency with a life hazard, these vehicles respond as a true emergency response vehicle.

Not 100% on this, but I recall hearing a supervisor answer to that effect when questioned at a scene a few years back.

If a MOBILE CANTEEN TRUCK has RED LIGHTS and SIREN I think some

Con Ed vehicles should.

Electrical and Gas problems are often a REAL EMERGENCY.

Maybe a Vehicle like this and or Supervisors.

How often do we need a rush on Con Ed? A LOT!

What is more important having leaking Gas shut down or a cup of Coffee?

Think of all the political "hook up's" with RED LIGHTS.

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You and those darn roto-rays!!!!!!!! 

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I agree the roto ray would be distracting in traffic

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Yeah I know... Either you love them or hate them. Personally I love the look of the twin 888's with the RotoRay in the middle.

BUT... I also have to say that I am much more into function than I am into form.. SO if there are money issues with the rig and more equipment is needed, then the RotoRay can go to make sure the rig is well equipped.

Love the Mars 888's.... It just needs a RotoRay to be perfect. Also in front of the bumper is an awful risky place to put the Q considering Boston traffic and what can happen.

Winter Park, FL's two new Quantum's are nice, but I'm still a fan of a more traditional looking rig.

Boston's somehow looks better than most. Maybe it's the traditional door steps instead of the fold downs.

Got to give credit to the home town rig... This truck isn't a true woods truck but it's an off road work horse when you're trying to move lots of water to a remote fire.....

Millwood MA-10.... 750gpm single stage Hale. Full complement of forestry hose, pre piped class B foam eductor, 1000ft of 4inch supply line, Ramsey front winch, and the Zodiac when requested.

If you are looking to establish an off road supply for a major fire, this is the rig to do it. Put it in 4Wheel Low and get as far into the bush as you can with the 4inch. Then run the 2.5in to gated wyes and multiple forestry lines from there.

Or at a structure fire in a gated driveway or other challenging area it's got enough discharges to push well over 1000gpm with a good hydrent or engine pushing to it. At the Kings College fire Ex-Chief Santone stuffed it in the woods and the boys from E146 helped to drag several hundred feet of 4inch up the hill. It pumped all day from the lake at the bottom of the hill to supply the operations on the back side of the building because the Tower Ladders out front had tapped the hydrant capacity from the front.

Date: 4-25-07

Time: 0129

Location: 4th District Montgomery County MD, PD - Aspen Hill

Departments: Montgomey County MD, PD

Description: Line of Duty Death

Writer: MFC2257 (Edward Smith)

Consolidated from several MD web pages:

The Montgomery County Police Collision Reconstruction Unit is investigating a serious personal injury collision involving two 4th District Montgomery County Police officers who were responding to a suspected Driving Under the Influence (DUI) impaired driver.

On Wednesday morning at approximately 1:29, 4th District officers of the Montgomory County, MD Police Department responded for a suspected impaired driver. The driver drove into the parking lot of an apartment complex and bailed out of his vehicle. Officer Luke Hoffman got out of his cruiser to engage in a foot pursuit. It was very dark and the roadway was dimly lit. As the officer began to cross Old Georgia Avenue, he was struck by a police cruiser driven by another 4th District officer who was responding to provide back-up. That cruiser then swerved off the roadway, went down an embankment, and struck a tree.

Both officers were flown to the R. Adams Cowley Shock Trauma Center ( "Shock Trauma" ) in Baltimore. Officer Luke Hoffman was in grave condition as a result of being struck has since passed as a result of his injuries. The other officer is in stable but serious condition.

Investigators have developed information about the identity of the suspected DUI driver, but at this time that driver remains at large.

Please pray for Officer Hoffman as well as his family. Also, please pray for the officer who struck PO Hoffman who remains hospitalized.

I had no idea they had a facility in Canada too.

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The Canadian facility was purchased within the past 4 or 5 years from another manufacturer who used Spartan Chassis quite a bit to mount thier stainless bodies. Works well given the amount of salt on the road in that part of Canada.

It's in a town named Carleton Place in Ontario on the Quebec border. The town is VERY small. I drive through it on the way to my hunting and fishing camp in the back bush of Quebec.

It always looked like they had a ton of work in progress though, so I'm assuming that they were a good purchase for Seagrave.

hmmm.....thats a little surprising....only 500 gallons of water  

well, i guess thats why its made to their liking rather than mine. i prefer 750 gallon

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In a municipal water district 500 gallons should do just fine. If this rig happened to be the first rig in on a fire, the second due rig should be able to pick up their line and complete a contineous water supply in time. Not to mention, if you can't put a fire out with 500gallons..... Chances are you're going to need a lot more than the extra 250 to get it done.

Remember that this rig is carrying full tools and running in place of a dedicated rescue. 250 extra gallons of water adds another 2,150 lbs to the weight of this rig before you account for frame strengthing and additional tank mass as well as additional possibilities such as bigger brakes, axles, heavier duty drive train etc. With lots of hills to pull in Thornwood I'd be leary about adding any more water.

MFC - Millwood Fire Company

2257 - My radio designation when I originally registered on EMTBravo as Lieutenant in Millwood.... I should probably change it as I am no longer an officer.

MFC2257