mfc2257

Millwood 75ft Sutphen Quint (no bucket)

Just heard about this from my buddy at 3-Engine in the District. More on thewatchdesk.com and pumpfire.com

At aprox 1530hrs on 10-29-07 DCFD responded to 4th Street NE in the 600 block for the house fire. Upon arrival companies found heavy fire to the rear and upon entry there was an apparent propane or NG explosion critically injuring the 4 man crew.

As of this time:

Sgt Lacore of Truck 9 is intubated and in a drug induced coma

FF Shayab of Engine 9 is in critical condition

The two other MOS from Engine 9 were expected to be released last evening or this morning.

Don't assume that taxes pay for fire services. There are plenty of places in the US that state law doesn't let municipalities to levy a fire tax and the FD exists through the sole efforts of it's fundraising efforts and donatons.

Our streets are about twice as wide as anything up north I think Orange County's (Florida) rescues are bigger. They have 4 heavy rescues that also pump

Orange County Squads aren't bigger. They are single axle units of which at least 2 pump. They are about the size of the old YFD R-1, OFD R-14, or KFD R-17.

City of Orlando Heavy Rescue 1 as well as Truck 1, E-1, E-101, Rescue (Ambulance) 1, HazMat 1, Technical Rescue Support 1, and the Dive Team all turn out of OFD headquarters which I look at out my window. The Heavy Rescue is the biggest Squad/Rescue unit anywhere close to the Central Florida Area. It is almost always on the road though and gets ridden hard & hung up wet.

An update on this ongoing conversation.

Kentland Station 33 is no longer restricted to it's first due. They were dispatched to a small dwelling fire in Station 8's box area today as the third due engine (E331). They arrived second and assumed the second due rig's responsibilities of securing a continuous water supply for E81 and stretching the line to the second floor for extension.

It appears on the surface that the county is finally going to pay to staff the Ambo like they should have all along. It's not in writing yet though.

Also, Kentland station 33 (not 46) is still restricted to their first due, although they've been special called one or two times.

Also, Chief Tony Kellaher has not been reinstated as of this time.

It's a work in progress.

A-339 is also yet to go in service although rumor has it that it's been lettered and waiting at the shops for some time.

They had pretty good technique with the grover stuttertones, but that Q was ridiculous.

And, I could just see the air guage going down every time they fire off the locomotive airhorn... my chauffeer would be yelling at me to cut it out before I caused the maxi to lock up.

Train Horn systems on firetrucks have seperate tanks and compressors

Regular air horns on modern firetrucks have seperate tanks than airbrakes.

You can dump the horns and not have to worry about losing your brakes. Not that it's necessary and you'll probably get a John Q Public complaint.

That's an old FF myth.

one referred to as a wagon)

Often times the engine is the first due rig that you'll find infront of the fire building. The wagon or hose wagon is the rig that runs second due and snags the plug, completes the lay and picks up the engine's line.

However, most of the time these days a wagon is just a PA, MD, DC, VA term that means engine.

Primary EMS response comes from the career EMS unit out of Kentland's other station (a different agency) Kentland Station 46. Other responses the other PG County stations that surround them. Some are 100% volunteer (Bladensburg St. 9) most of the others are combination stations where depending on the time of the day, you may get a 100% vollie, combo, or 100% career BLS or MICU.

Primary EMS response used to come from a dedicated career staffed unit (formerly known as Rescue 2 but it was not a rescue like Westchester knows it or heavy squad like PG calls it) that was permenantly stationed in Kendland's first due. The PGFD Chief (the chief of the combined county department) removed this service some time ago and it was never replaced. There was another dedicated career unit that was removed some time ago also. Company 28 pulled thier vollie/combo BLS unit some time ago as well.

There is a roto-ray made now that is all LED's behind the lenses. I'm sure it's possible with a soldering iron and a little extra switching equipment to make them flash any way you want.

I'm thinking that the way to utilize this type of equipment is to contract with someone like Stiloski's. A rig like this would largly go unused by YFD or any other department for that matter, so why not let the guys who run this stuff on a regular basis take care of it for us.

Pay for the Stiloski's guys to be specially trained on doing rescue-style pick's with the crane. Then have an annual contract with them with a requirment that one of their rigs will always be available, OR immeadiatly made available.

Even if there was a unit to be purchased for rescue only service, I don't think Yonkers would be the place for it. Stationing it at the training center with the technical rescue team makes more sense. It gives access to everywhere in the county via it's proximity to I87, I287 to Hutch/I95, Taconic, Saw Mill, Sprain, Rt 100(s), Rt 9(s), etc.

It didn't take long for someone's life to hang in the balance with the decision to restrict Kentland Station 33 to their own first due.

Over the weekend, a motor vehicle accident with rollover and double ejection where both victims were pinned under the front and rear axles of their vehicle occured. On this incident, Rescue-Engine 33 (also known as E-333) would have normally been the first due Squad Company (as RE-33 is recognized by PG county as a Squad) on this particular box. When the first (second at this point) due Squad Company arrived (RE-18 Glenn Dale VFD) they quickly exhausted thier cribbing and airbag resources and needed the next due unit. Chief 18 wanted to special call RE-33 which would have allowed it to respond in light of it's restriction to 33's first due via the "special call". However, Bureau Chief 12 (BC-12) of the PGFD career staff ordered him to request the next due Squad on the run card. This was Rescue Squad 8 (RS-8) from the Seat Pleasent VFD (a combination of VFD and PGFD staffing).which took an additional 12 minutes to travel to the scene.

The fact of the matter is that RE-33 should have been first due, with RE-18 next. One of the patients expired while waiting for RS-8 to arrive and/or set up. It's not RS-8's fault, they never should have been due on the call.

Who knows the patient might have expired anyway, BUT we'll never know because they were alive when Chief 18 arrived, which means that because RE-33 was in quarters (they had long before returned from a run in thier first due) the patient would have been alive when RE-33 should have arrived first due, and RE-18 would have been next, thus saving the extra 12 minutes it took RS-8 to arrive.

BTW, all the apparatus that was on the scene had paid PGFD personnel on it. RE-33 would have arrived 100% volunteer and with little argument would have been the best suited/equipped to handle the job with the exception of RS-14 (the Seagrave monster from Berwin Heights VFD that everyone loves) which has 4 miles further to travel then RE-33. So the question that pains to be asked is why won't the county supply staffing for an ambulance in 33's first due when they are willing to supplement just about every other company in the county except 9, 33, 37?

Oh yeah... The pic of Quint 2 brings back memories of the old E-247... Century Cab LaFrance with a 8V-72 in it. The MPO for Q-2 has the dog box open to cool the motor... E-247 was the same way.... On a hot summer day, after a job where it was pumping, you'd burn your leg on the dog box on the way home.

WOW!!! Those pictures bring back some memories!!!! Thinking back, I now recall everything from that fire as if it was yesterday.

One bit of interest - Elmsford Quint 2 was used that day to not onlyh supply its ladder pipe and several handlines, but it also supplied the City Of Yonkers FD's engine and one other piece of apparatus (so I can't remember it all).

My hose team was actually the first onto the fire floor (I was the nozzleman). Once we made entry to the apartment that the fire started in/over, we got driven out by 3 aerial streams - twice!!!

It was one really LONG day to say the least.

Not to be the big bringdown to some awesome shots of great historic apparatus, but that scenerio concerns me quite a bit. Not only that masterstreams were driving you out of an appartment, but that Q-2 was supplying both master streams and handlines at the same time....

Those are three rules of engagement I would never break as a pump operator or OIC...

1: Pumps supplying handlines ONLY supply handlines.

2: Pumps supplying master streams ONLY supply master streams

3: Dont place a master stream in operation into a room where MOS are making an attack or rescue.

Many people argue that relief valves are there to protect FF's on handlines, but I assure you that a relief valve is only as good as the person who sets it, AND the capacity it's rated for vs. what is coming into the pump.

If you've got guys on a handline and your master stream shuts down in a rush (like some fool backing over your supply line to the ladder operating next to you) the guys on the handline can be in a world of hurt.

Otherwise... awsome pics.

E-245 (ex TS-2)

When I was in Gettysburg we used to run to York, Hershey, Chambersburg, Shock Trauma in Baltimore, and Hopkins.... 100+ miles between them... We used to put a pre printed FEDEX sticker with our account number on the board and they were professionally stenciled with instructions that if the board wasn't at Gettysburg hospital ER, to place it with the outgoing next day's FEDEX shipment. The boards used to come back in the mail.

This could turn into a downward spiral of conflicting opinions about what should or shouldn't be done.

The boys and gals at 33 offered to take the county owned / county staffed unit into their station. They offered to build a temporary building for it on the property as soon as possible. They also offered to donate a parcel of their property to the county so that the county could build a permenant EMS station for the unit. They have offered all of this to the county in writing.

The county has consistantly and frequently changed their offers / rules of engagement on this issue and won't put anything in writing.

The Membership of Kentland 33 is absolutely correct to not want to accept anything from the County at this point because the County's word has been shown to be worthless.

The Membership of Kentland 33 is not rejecting the prospect of an Ambulance in their station or on thier property. They are just not accpeting the County's terms for the deal.

Haven't we all rejected terms and tried to negotiate on various deals... Why shouldn't Kentland have the opporunity to negotiate for what they feel is best.

This article is false.

1: The career staffing was only offered for the first 30 days. Then it would be removed and the burdon placed on the volunteers.

2: The offer for career staffing was taken away as soon as it was offered (within a week's time)

3: Sedgewick did not order that all stations maintain an ambulance and staff it. Stations 28 and 37 do no have an ambulance, nor are they being forced to comply like 33 is.

There were two 24/7 career staffed county owned BLS units in 33's first due for many years. The county removed them some time ago. Station 28 had an ambulance that used to run into 33's first due and it too was taken out of serivce.

There is a lot more to this story than just what the media and rumors have discussed. There is no denying that 33 needs a BLS unit in their first due. But as a Corporation that is an independant entity, it is not fair that the County Fire Department dictate that the Volunteers at 33 take on services that they are not interested in providing for free.

The fact of the matter is, that busiest engine or not, ego's at the station or not, these guys keep 2 pumpers, a rescue engine that runs as a full heavy squad company, a truck, and minipumper that runs EMS calls in service 24/7 365. They do it for free, and they are damn good at it. They can be jerks and egomaniacs, but they consistantly provide what is some of the best, if not the best, fire/rescue service in the county.

This has nothing to do with Kentland 33. What everyone should be looking at here (mostly the media) is that a private corporation should not be forced into providing something that they don't want to. Stations 28 and 37 don't want to provide BLS transport service either... no one is jumping down their throats.

If Seth doesn't want cursing or the modified illusion of cursing on the board, then that should be respected.

In all honesty, do we really need to curse or *&$%#^ to get our point across. Just say what you have to say and be done with it.

Think of it this way. If you say "I just cant tell you how disappointed I am in your behavior" OR I just cant tell you how ^&%$##ing disappointed I am in your behavior" it's not the curse word that hits at home. It is the word "disappointed" that feels like a dagger through the heart.

As I grow older (a whopping 30 y/o) I find that I'm even disappointed at myself after I've dropped the F-bomb or gratuitously curse. I used to curse up a storm. But now it seems like I'm diluting how important my point is when I'm throwing random F-bombs in there....

We've become too comfortable as a society with profane language as a part of everyday life. Curse words have lost their emphasis in fact. So now in a random conversation about fire trucks, baseball teams, or how many beers we drank the night before, we tend to throw curses in just for the sake of it.

I have found that people take you more seriously when you can make a stinging point in conversation/argument without resorting to curse words.

Just my thoughts on the matter. Doesn't mean they’re right

It's a B.L.S. unit !

Block Long Squad

By the way.... For the crowd of people who are in the "Firemen were wrong crowd"... Let me ask you this. What is a bigger waste of public resources.

5-10 firemen taking a Volunteer staffed vehicle to "support the troops". Cost = Diesel, limited wear & tear on vehicle, minor chance of uneccessary vehicle accident

OR

5000 people protesting the war in NYC marching up a major avenue which has costs such as = Hundreds of extra police officers on overtime, multple emergency services responses for those who fall ill, injured, etc, fuel costs, non-protesting citizens who are forced to wait for emergency services due to delays related to traffic / resources committed to the protest.... etc....

It just seems like most of this stuff is one sided. Kind of like, "the war sucks, so we're entitled to do/say/act however we want to voice our opinion regardless of what it costs." BUT a bunch of FF's can't roll out in thier rig to support the troops.... It doesn't even sound like these guys were "supporting the war". They were just supporting the troops. You know... supporting the troops as in like, we'll be here to help you when you get home... We miss you, you're not forgotten, WE LOVE YOU... You know... the TROOPS, our brothers, sisters, friends, parents, children, grandparents.... the dude who I wanted to wipe the sidewalk with in highschool who is a bigger man than I am because he volunteered to become a soldier in 1998 and hasn't stopped following orders since.

You know... The Troops.

The same thing applies to the firemen who said they were more comfortable dealing with burning babies than being around the gay members of their community. If I was a gay person in San Diego I'd wonder if I was going to get the same level of service from my fire department as a non-gay person.

Dude... What are you talking about??? You didn't get a good handle on the SanDiego deal. The FF's were FORCED to attend the parade as participants by a superior officer via direct order. The men involved said that they didn't enjoy the fact that they were FORCED to participate in an event that had nothing to do with their job even after they requested to be excused. I'm sure that the gay folks in SanDiego are probably more offended that someone was forced to attend their event rather than being there of their own choice.

We need to stop reaching for stuff to be pissed off about.

mmmm, beginning to get a bit off topic but anyway, from Wikipedia's section on NPR. Like anything involving politics, seems to be hard to get a real answer, but it certainly looks like the feds are funding a fairly small proportion of NPR, between 2 & 22%.

If that's the case then I stand corrected on the funding of NPR.... My point still stands though, that there are plenty of instances of government funding, facilities, or equipment being used to support one side or the other.

Examples might include Nancy Pelosi using a federally owned aircraft to attend Democratic campaigning events in support of the 2008 Presidential election.... OR George using Air Force One for his 2004 re-election bid.

The point is that it's not such a disgrace as people claim it to be. Rather, it's just the way it is and people should really choose what mountain they want to die on. If the boys and gals in Rockland took the rig out to hand out some water for a cause that wasn't illegal and they considered to be merited then writing newspaper articles about it might be a bit much. Should they have thought twice about it. Maybe. But we are in such a litigious society that everyone wants to exact a pound of flesh for everything that doesn't fit into some pre-planned, politically, emotionally, and socially correct formula.

It's called life and the protesters about the fire truck thing should just get over it.

I still don't think any public owned vehicle should be used for this purpose.

So since so many feel that a public owned vehicle shouldn't be used for this, then would you agree that National Public Radio (NPR) should be taken off the air because it is nearly 100% funded with tax dollars. It is a perfect example of taxpayer money being used for political purposes as it's no secret that NPR flys way to the left and doesn't even come close to equal representation amongst prevaling political agendas.

Sounds like some people are only thinking inside the box when it comes to Quints... By nature, Quint operations require an outside the box thought process. Departments that operate Quint's may do so for a wide varity of reasons that include cost, lack of station space, staffing concerns, or just the overall demographics of their district. In a box area with lots houses set back from the road with narrow driveways, a Quint isn't a bad choice because you have most (not everything) you need for initial truck operations and initial engine operations fitting in one small area in the driveway. Some departments name thier Quints as engines because that is what their focus is... others name them trucks because that is the focus. When Millwood takes delivery of their new 75ft Sutphen Quint I believe it should be badged as an engine as their main focus has never been truck op's. Katonah may consider the same.

I fully believe that departments that operate Quints need to train not only on engine op's and truck op's, but also Quint op's....

What I mean by this, is that you need to add certain thought processes (especially if you are a first arriving officer) as to how to utilize your Quint. What do the fire conditions dictate? What is the layout of the fire property like? What room do I have for additional resources? Do I want to commit the crew riding on the Quint to truck op's or engine op's....

The last point I believe is the most important one. Having an OIC commit between truck or engine op's for the initial crew is vital. THIS is what eliminates many of the problems that people have with using Quints... i.e. "they don't really do one or the other"... If the OIC commits the initial crew to engine op's, then that's ALL they do. When the next due unit arrives (especially if it is driveway operations) they can take up the role of the truck company (most likely the pump operator will be required to switch and take the turntable and the second due engine operator will take over the Quint's pump panel. It is safer to have the most familiar person working the turntable). When ever possible it is important to ensure that the ladder pipe is supplied seperately from the handlines on the Quint. With modern apparatus design and the more effecient use of space, you truly can equip a Quint with all the equipment of an engine, and most (not all) of the equipment from a truck.

Individual departments have their reasons for what they do. Truck, Engine, or Quint. So long as the reasons why they purchase equipment are in line with the needs of the community, then the old though of "truck is truck", "engine is engine" can be blended together to better serve the community.

Now... In full disclosure, I prefer truck work, Soooo... I'd prefer to ride a dedicated truck any day of the week.