mfc2257

BTW The aformentioned Rocky's Deli in Millwood is owned and operated by a very active member (and ex-chief) of the Millwood Fire Company for those folks who like to support businesses owned by FF's.

The historical "safe" answer is wait 90 days from the application to put anything besides soap and water on your paint. This varies by manufacturer of course.

Very similar to burt hair, but more intense because there is thousands of birds involved. Not to mention the floors are covered in waste products etc. When you introduce water to fight the fire, the steam thickens and increases the smell. Not for the weak of stomach.

I have fought several poultry barn fires in Adams County, PA Let's just say that the smell of burned feathers is one of the most fowl (pun intended !) that I've experienced.

In house systems are great.... The one that I'm familiar with (don't recall the name but I can get it) will allow the scanner or radio to broadcast at a reduced volume in the entire facility 24hrs per day. Seperate volume controls are installed into each sound "sensative" room such as the chief's office and a meeting room should the chatter on the scanner need to be eliminated during a meeting or phone call. All of this is secondary to a total system override that occurs when a minitor (or multiple if you have different tones for ems/fire or if you run with multiple counties etc) that is attached to the system is tripped. The when the tones drop the minitor sends the entire system (regardless of whether or not you've turned down the volume in a room or not) to full volume and overrides any other channel talk or scanner signal that might have been broadcasting through the building at that time so that the dispatch can't be interfered with by either the scanner or the secondary fire channels that are used on base radio in the station. Full volume on the system is maintained for a period of 10 minutes as well as all the exterior doors to the apparatus bay unlock for 10 minutes so any members who left a key at home etc, may enter the building during the response. After 10 minutes has elapsed, the volume returns to the original settings in the building, and the apparatus bay doors re lock themselves.

I've worked with both prepiped and non-prepiped trucks fairly extensively. For prepiped rigs one consideration is blowing of seals where the flys of the latter attach to each other on the pipe if the operator hasn't opened the drain for the pipe. Rigs that don't have prepiped waterways, typically have a length of 3in in a VERY accessable area on the rig, so that it only requires one person to connect to the gun at the tip, roll the hose down the ladder while it's still in the bed (down position) and then let the hydraulics of the ladder do the rest of the work to elevate the hose with the ladder. If department members are trained in this scenerio as part of setting up the truck, it doesn't really add significant time to the process.

Lady & Taylor Body Shop (Pennsylvania Fire Apparatus) in Gettysburg, PA. But get in line... They did Millwood's ALF Chemical Engine while I was in Gettysburg in College, and the've got by B-Model Mack right now as well as several wrecked pieces of front line apparatus from Adams County that they are dealing with. The owner (Gere "Jerry" Lady) is the best out there, BUT he's got a small operation and a lot of work to do, so expect to wait a while for it to get started, and then a while for it to be done. BUT when it's done you'll be happy you let him do it.

Doesn't look that bad, just doesn't look like a Seagrave.... It does as Pudge said... Look a little like a Metro (I think) series ALF cab.

A Rocky's Deli double egg, bacon, & cheese with a JUMBO regular coffee... Mmmmmmmmmmm 24hours a day 365days a year you can get that wonderful heart attack on a roll.

Totally agree.... If you're available it doesn't matter where in your territory you are... The other thing that drives me nutz is when an IC clears all apparatus from the scene and announces that they are returning, but then half the rigs feel the need to call individually. If everyone is available and returning as per the IC, then leave it at that.

While I was in college, I was "paid-per-call" for the Gettysburg, PA, FD... We were paid 10 dollars per call for basic EMS runs within our "first due area". If we ran a inter hospital transport we were paid 25 dollars. The same held true if we transported a PT from a scene and their treatment needs dictated that they go to York, Lancaster, Chambersburg , Hershey, etc instead of Gettysburg Hospital. Shortly before I graduated there were some talks about billing for MVA's where the "tool" actually touched the car and thus an evolution of that would be having MVA's added to the "paid-per-call" list as well. Gettysburg also added a "true" career EMS crew for their first ambulance during the day hours shortly before I graduated. Both ambulances were 100% volunteer at night as was the second ambulance during the day.

Sorry... I guess I should have done into a little history... As the other guys stated, the old pull box system over time evolved into box assignments that dispatchers can use as a bible for getting the appropriate apparatus out the door on not only the initial alarm assignment, but to additional alarm assignments and upgrades as well. Gone were the pull stations on street corners, but what remained and evolved was the list of subsequent apparatus that was assigned to alarms in that area. If you listen to most (not all just most) other states or counties..., you will usually hear a box number announced after the tones are done dropping. The list of apparatus that is announced following that box number is the preplanned list designated for the geographic area that corresponds to the box. In areas of the country that have evolved to true box assignment systems, there is no longer dispatching of entire departments, but rather only of specific apparatus related to the emergency at hand, regardless of department. If Chappaqua had a wreck on the Saw Mill north of town, the chief would have preplanned the box to have the following apparatus dispatched like this... Rescue 23, Rescue 15, Engine 146, Engine 105, respond on the Saw Mill River Pkwy North bound just north of Readers Digest for a motorvehicle accident with entrapement (this would represent a pre planned response for Mt Kisco and CHappaqua to cover this call from both directions)..... If any one of those apparatus was unavailable, or if the chief needed additional units added, all he would have to do is request an upgrade to a second alarm (for example if Rescue 15 was unavailable, Rescue 10 would have been dispatched in its place on the initial alarm). Box assignement in the CAD already has the next apparatus that the chief planned out long ago listed... No need for the chief to think on the highway about what rig he needs next.

My point is that it means different things to different people in different areas. If you were to ask someone who was active 10 or 15 years ago, "what would you say over the radio to indicate you are responding in apparatus XYZ"... Their answer very well may be "Engine XYZ is in service".... To them the word "Service" means it's being used, operated, responding. To myself and many others that are active in the service in the Tri County area today... When you hear that a piece of apparatus has been placed in service, it means that they have been released from the scene and they are now available for the next potential emergency.

A box is an area of geographic significance. It can be 1 building, or literally a boxed in area on a map. The box is then assigned a pre plan by the chief (or some type of committee) of the department. So for example, you are originally from Yorktown right? A box in Yorktown might be just the high school, or it could be the area from 202 down 132 to rt 6 and back up the taconic again.... everything that is inside that box area has the same pre planned response. The chief sets alarm levels for various types of alarms (1st alarm through 4th or 5th ususally) and pre selects the exact mutual aid apparatus that they want for that call. For example, in a certain box... Lets hypothetically call it Yorktown Box #1, for the first alarm of a structure fire the pre listed apparatus are L-51, E270, 271, 273, 274, 275, R16, T14. If the dispatcher recieves multiple calls stating a confirmed fire, they may advise the chief to upgrade to a second alarm right away. Well instead of the chief having to say, "Give me Tanker 10, Tanker 15, Tanker 16, E-253, L-10... The 2nd alarm assignment is pre programmed into the CAD. If the chief arrives and realizes he needs a 3rd alarm all he has to do is request the 3rd alarm, he doesn't need to think about his request because it's pre planned. This makes sure the the closest and most appropriate apparatus is being chosen for each alarm assignement. At 3am when a Millwood chief is requesting a mutual aid engine from Chappaqua, there are three very different engines available. Which one suits the need for the call. IF you are in a gated neighborhood with steap approach driveways, E-144 isn't a good choice.... But of the two remaining choices E145 has a 3inch hose reel and the chief may need 5in... Well that only leaves E-146 as the appropriate choice... With a box system in place, the decision to call for E-146 was made months ago while setting up the box assigments for that neighborhood not at 3am when the crap is hitting the fan.

If we were having this conversation a few years ago you'd hear old-timers signing on the air using the term "in service" as responding.

The term "in service" is confusing becuase depending on where you are from it means the direct oppisite. Usually In our tri county area, the old term "in service" means that you are actually responding to a call. In NJ, PA, MD... when an officer calls fire control and "places the box in service" that means that each piece of apparatus on that box is now available to respond to another emergency. If an individual piece of apparatus is released before others are, the officer on that rig would usually say that Engine XYZ is "in service, returning, available"... or that they have been released, they are returning to quarters and they are available to respond again.... Or they may be in service, returning, and unavailable if they need to fill the booster tank pack hose etc... This way fire control knows not to dispatch that piece of apparatus until they become "available"

Isn't it funny, that in one of the wealthiest counties in the USA with all the centers of influence that reside within the county, that there is no county sponsored technical rescue team.... Unbelievable... We've provided more govenment funded park projects, concerts, underwater basket weaving classes, etc yet there is now technical rescue team in a county that has water on both sides, several major interstates, two huge bridges, mountainous terrain, three major railway lines (not including freight) a nuclear power plant (which is safer than a con-ed sub station I might add) several chemical producing companies, an airport, resavior system, major high tension powerline right of ways coming to NYC from Canada... Need I go on. There is definately a need for a technical rescue team.

Let me start this reply by letting everyone know that I'm not hyper critical of others opinions when I post long (borning for some I'm sure) posts like this. It's very difficult to understand tone via writen messages and sometimes it comes off aggressive and that isn't my intent.... That being said. Pudge I agree with you that it may be confusing to some, at first at least. A simple shuffle of the deck to put engine numbers in line a little and leave room for expansion was what was done (basically) a few decades back when county numbers were assigned to apparatus in the first place... That has been outgrown. My perception of the problem expands beyond a confusing system of numbers that are used now. My thoughts involve bringing Westchester County into the 21st century. When the root of the numbering system is based on each department having a unique number to base off of it extends into better CAD development with box areas being developed. If Millwood is company 25, then all the Millwood box areas in the cad will begin with the number 25. For example the area West of Rt 134 (Allapartus, Glendale, parts of Old Albany Post Road etc) might be Box Area 25-1. East of Rt 134 Box 25-2. Millwood Business district might be Box 25-3. From here.... Dispatches stop sounding like "60 Controll to Millwood respond to 19 Allapartus Circle for a Structure Fire" and begin sounding like "60 control to company 25 respond to box area 25-1, at 19 Allapartus Road for a structure fire... the following units also alerted to fill the box, Battalion 12, Tanker 8 (Croton for example) Tanker 53 (Yorktown) Tanker 38 (Pocantico) Engine 33-1 (Ossining) and 5A1 (Briarcliff's ambulance).... I came up with all these hypothetical numbers by dropping the 2 from each of the current numbers that the county has assigned to our departments... (Millwood 225 is actually 25, Ossining 233 is actually 33, Croton 208 is actually 8 etc. To move beyond box areas set up via numbers you get to the actual apparatus assignements for mutual aid for those box numbers. No more guessing who to call from the fire ground. The chiefs lay out alarm assigments from 1st through 4th alarm in each box. They choose the specific apparatus numbers from their mutual aid partners for each alarm. This way if Chief 25 requests his 2nd alarm assignment in box 25-3 and one of the engines on that assignement is O/O/S the county doesn't need to call him back and ask for his preferance... The county simply takes the first engine listed on the 3rd alarm for that box and moves it up to the second alarm assignment. This probably sounds terribly complicated to many folks reading, but this is the way that the busiest counties base their CAD and department management. Once put in place it makes dispatching and fireground communications 100% easier than they are today in Westchester.

Steve... I've done a ton of research on how counties number their rigs and both Putnam and Rockland have some good ideas at trying to convey as much info about a rig as possible throught it's identifier. However, if we look to the really large and successful combination career/volunteer counties (most of which are in the DC/Baltimore metro area like Prince Georges county etc....) They have tended to keep identifiers super brief at apparatus type followed by company number followed by apparatus number within that departmant.... E25-2 (said over the radio as "engine twenty five...two" or "engine twenty five dash two") The special call details of apparatus is kept in the CAD. If a chief needs a 2000gpm pumper he'll make a request to upgrade the box with the next available unit that meets that criteria and it's the dispatcher's job to find, dispatch the unit and inform the IC of his choice. I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with the Rockland or Putnam identifiers, simply that there are some really big counties that run a ton more fire/ems than we do in the tri county area in other parts of the country and they've had a lot of success with the simple version of the system. They have also put some really stringent rules on what criteria has to be met to get en engine / truck / rescue designation. That is for another post topic that I could go on forever about but I'll spare everyone. Blah blah blah...

635's got it right... It's not hard to remember if you are an enthusiast. There are lots of positive things about the fire service in Westchester County and I miss it terribly now that I live in a mostly career department state, BUT there is a lot that still needs to be fixed in Westchester to make the fire service safer for the firefighters and more effective for the public. Apparatus and department numbering is just one item on the list that includes other items such as dispatch and operations on the same frequency and so on. None of these items will be fixed until two things happen. 1: Someone is hired with a proven trackrecord of running a combination career/volunteer countywide emergency service program. This person has to be paid what they deserve (imagine that) and empowered to make choices (like numbering and frequency changes) that will not necessarily sit well with all departments in the county. 2: The old and very fragile ego's that drive inter and intra fire department politics need to be eliminated. There way to many politically motivated fireground decisions made with regard to mutual aid and other key fireground decisions in Westchester. Anyone who's still "doing it because thats the way it's always been" needs to step aside. Old traditions are important for ceremony, parades, and stories with the boys while out at night, but at the fireground there is only room for one decision and that is the one that regardless of friendship, tradition, ego, or allegiance, is made in the best interest of the firefighters and publics safety. The numbering system is just a small part of a long laundry list of things that need to be improved. Westchester has some of the most innovative and talented individual fire departments that I've seen (not to mention some damn good dispatchers that are rock solid under heavy fire). The county structure and support is all that is missing.

The numbering system in Westchester has no rhyme or reason to it. Basically what it has come down to is each department based on availablility of numbers has reserved spots for apparatus. For example, even though Millwood only has E-245, 247, 248 in service right now, numbers 244, 246 are reserved either for future use or because they were used in the past. Other numbers are assigned based on how many prior apparatus of its kind are in existance in the county, for example Tanker 16 in Somers is literally the 16th (really the 15th as Tanker 13 doesn't exist) Tanker in the county. I've said it on this site more than a few times before, that the "on a whim" numbering system in the county needs to be eliminated. Each department needs to be assigned a department number and all officer/apparatus designations need to be based off of it. Millwood is currently department 25 if I remember correctly.... The numbering should work as follows. Cars 2251, 52, 53 become Chiefs 25-1, 25-2, 25-3 Captain 2254 becomes Captain 25... Same for other officers E-245, 247, 248 become E25-1, 25-2, 25-3 R-36 becomes R-25 T-15 becomes T-25 MA-10 becomes MA-25 U-44 becomes U-25 Nothing better than being at a fire and having a million different units with the same identifier... Example... You could have MA-10 (Millwood), T-10 (Croton), and R-10 (Bedford Hills) all working at the same incident if it occured somewhere on R-100 or Rt 35.... In that case I'd feel bad for whomever was doing apparatus staging for Somers at that call... You'd have a unit with a #10 identifier coming from South, East and West....As a dispatcher, IC or anyone else on the fire ground it would be nice (and a lot clearer) to know that when Chief 25 is talking to MA-25 about a draft to E25-1 that all those guys are from the same department instead of hearing 2251 telling MA-10 that E-247 is ready for water... Sounds silly after a while.

Right !

The reason why Conti Village is considered over other alternatives is the types of roads that lead to the West End of the Millwood Fire District. CV has a straight shot down 9 and can access the West End from the back side of Glendale or Rt134. On the other hand to bring T5, 6 or 16 to the far West End requires them to come down 100, through the twisties on the East Side of Rt134 and then to navigate Allapartus. CV is a longer drive, but 85% of it is at 70mph. The flip side of that is on the East Side of Millwood's non-hydrant area, it's faster and more simple to have Tankers 5,6 and 16 on the box.... And they are accustom to working together.... That was the logic behind changing who to call. To my knowledge they haven't been called to a fire yet since adding them to the box.

If there is a factor that makes using the old box a problem, such as an accident, then don't use it. However, if you have a standard type 1 or 3 box that is free of problems and just sitting on a tired chassis there really should't be a problem putting it on a new chassis. The best interests of everyone involved ought to be looked at. Example... IF you have a commercial chassis (FL112 or Topkick for example) and everyone hates the rig, when it's time to replace it, get a brand new rig. On the other hand, if you've got a 1998 F-350 that everyone loves, but it's blowing smoke and the tranny is about to drop... Assuming that no one complains about the box, why not upgrade to a new F-350, 450, 550 and keep the box. Just my opinion.

I often complained about some of the same things. When I became Lt. and eventually Capt. in Millwood I was very frustrated about who we were calling for tankers after 10 and 14 (Croton & Yorktown for the down county crew reading this). Finally, after some of the nay sayers moved out of office, the current Chief took a look at the argument that I was making for Pocantico and Continental Village to be added to our box. They both have great rigs with easy shots to our west end via route 9. In addition, Engine 188 was added even before Tanker 16 was purchased by Somers. Now, depending on where the fire is, there is a more specific response. On the extreme west end, 10, 11, 12, 14 & Millwood T-15 should be called.... OR closer to the center of the district the response should look more like 5, 6, 14, Millwood T-15, T-16. Same goes true for FAST teams, and special calls. There is nothing more frustrating than listening to a really hairy job going on over the radio and hearing a chief make a call for a piece of apparatus 2 or more towns away when an equally sufficient piece of apparatus is sitting idle in a station inbetween (no to mention that 10 guys from that station heard the fire was a big one and they drove to the fire house, have their gear sitting next to the truck and already checked the map book to see how to get to the scene) I digress... Once some people lose their egos and stop letting politics (which really means "anything that gets in the way of making the most logical decision") and other factors drive their decisions, Westchester will see a major improvement in what is already a successful mutual aid system. As far as using the VA hospital rig, that's a great idea and probably overlooked too often.