mfc2257

A few days ago... Franklin County Engine/Tanker 18 (E/T18) Saint Thomas Township VFD http://www.stthomasfire.com/

This happened not to far from where I went to college. There is a large group of hills & valleys that surround the area and lots of winding roads. This happened in the flats at the bottom of a hill I believe.

I've seen more robust ladder setups on engines in more rural areas of the country. Where I went to college there were 26 companies in the county. We had the only Ladder and the only Quint. We would run first due to about 2/3 of the county on the Truck assignment with bordering counties making up the other 1/3 of the truck response, but the company who's box it was needed more than just a 24ft extension and a 12 foot roof ladder to get started (especially if they were a single engine company). Soooo some companies had bigger ladder racks that fit two extension ladders, some carried ladders on support equipment, and one that I can remember had two ladder racks, but I'll never be able to show you a pic because they are poor as can be and run one engine out of a steel building in a corn field and definately don't have a web page. I would say though, that two racks is not common. Better chances are, two 24footers on the same rack with the roof ladder elsewhere, OR the rescue or special unit has a ladder complement on it too.

From the time I've spent down in the area I was under the impression that they did.

I can see why the Liberty is attractive to the city. They are cheep, have diesel motors that sip fuel compared to gas fired alternatives or full sized diesel command vehicles, and they are 4wd for poor weather. I will say however that after radio, light, siren, and other equipment is installed, I can't imagine that there is a ton of room available in these rigs between the chief and their aid. I don't think that battalion chiefs would be very comfortable spending a 12-24hour tour in one of these.... especially if they are responsible for building inspections and other FD business where they are out for hours at a time and not just ready at the station to respond. Image sould mean nothing.... function before form... BUT Something larger seems more appropriate for this particular role. Just my opinion.

Not volly, BUT..... Hoboken (when I lived there about 7 years ago) had a 1970's Seagrave Tiller running with a Mack CF out of the Washington Street Station b/t 13th & 14th Streets.

The men and women of the Millwood Fire Company don't need a rude awakening. They need a good 2nd assistant chief to command their response and keep them safe. They chose a good chief through a vote. The commissioners denied thier vote and offered no reason (because there isn't a legitimate one). The rude awakening that needs to take place is with the commissioners. Their job is to provide fire protection to the district and to protect the interests of the taxpayers. One could argue that over the past 5 years they haven't done a good job at either. Not confirming the company's vote for asst. chief is yet another example of the commissioners looking out for themselves (they want a chief that will roll over and play dead when they stomp their feet) and not looking out for the best interest of the taxpayers and the safety of the FF's. Don't get me wrong, I would understand if there was a legit reason for the denial of the ff's choice for chief. BUT THERE ISN'T a good reason here. They are cowards.

Can someone go into more detail about experiences with them. In the box and out of the box reasons to use them. I was trained on them many moons ago. Seen them used once but I was driving the ambulance and communicating with other incomming units before a commanding officer arrived so my 2 EMT's and the medic were doing all the work and I don't even remember why the call was made to use them.

I served proudly as Lieutenant and eventually Captain under Walter Quast. I can honestly say that out of the several departments and states that I served as a firefighter or officer in, that Walter Quast was one of the two best chiefs that I ever served under HANDS DOWN. He is a no BS get it done type of chief. A man who led by example both by his actions while being a chief and by his historical actions as a superior fire fighter. The men who the commissioners would prefer to be chief were scared of their own shadow as firefighters and horrible chiefs whom the majority of the firefighters had no confidence in. On the other hand of all the elected officials that I had playing big brother, the Millwood Fire Commissioners were/are HANDS DOWN the worst. I cannot comment on Angelo Indusi or the other most recently elected member of the commissioners (a citizen who is new to the fire service altogether) because they took office after my departure for Florida, but the remainder of the commissioners have absolutely NO CLUE as to what is in the best interest of providing fire-rescue services to the tax payers and visitors of the fire district OR more importantly keeping firefighters safe. Being on the board of commissioners appears to be a way for them to feel important OR get their friends who were crappy fire chiefs re elected. To be completely honest, if you took a vote of the Millwood Firefighters who are active, train, actually respond to calls, etc (I’m ruling out the folks who claim to be FF’s but really never show up to big jobs and stand at the back during drills talking about nothing important). I’ll bet that the vast majority would offer a publically affirmed vote to confirm Walter Quast AND simultaneously deliver a vote of “no confidance” in the commissioners. By the way if the commissioners listen to the folks that they would prefer to hold office, E-245 (ex TS-2) will be replaced with a Tower Ladder and not a reasonable piece of apparatus like NWP’s or Mohegan’s 75ft Quints.

Jonsey you are right about the NIFR reports. I'm really referring to the internal FD documentation that goes along with NIFR reporting. If anything ever happened and the department needed to recall and justify itself, having a descriptive narrative on file to cross reference against a specific NIFR report is important. To the extent that it is possible, I think NIFR narratives should be as descriptive and congruent with the individual department's internal record and narrative as possible so that in the event of a lawsuit, the brief narrative on the NIFR report is very similar to the detailed description that is on file at the FD. Lawyers will have a field day with poorly documented events. There is always a reason to over document.

This is a long post and may sound crazy to some, but I’ve seen diligent reporting save the butts of a few of my colleagues over the years. There are classes that you can take in writing reports like this for EMS and Fire but I've never participated in one. Run report narratives are extremely important and have been a point of contention of mine for years. Too many departments (not necessarily my own) don't take any time to make a proper report, and as mentioned before, hand it off to an officer who wasn't even on the call to fill out and submit. I've seen too many of these reports that basically say "we responded to the parkway extricated a patient, assisted with EMS, and cleared". Even though Millwood doesn't provide emergency medical services I would write all reports to look something like the following to cover potential legal issues later. MFD & BMFD dispatched at 2312hrs as dual response to TSP NB just south of RT 100 for MVA reported 2 vehicles into the guard rail. Units responding: 2251,2253,2051,2052,R-36,R-37,E248, E94, 36M1, 53B1, 54B1, 53B2, 34M1, NYSP, NCPD, Stiloski's Recovery Svcs. AOS (arrive on scene): E248 AOS first Lt. 2256 establishing command and correcting location/description as TSP NB just south of Pines Bridge Road, 1 vehicle into guard rail 1 vehicle overturned in median with double ejection. 2256 requests 3rd BLS to the scene and NYSP to shut down TSP in both directions. All MFD apparatus respond via PinesBridge Road BMFD respond via Rt100 to TSP NB via southbound lane. 2251 AOS shortly after assuming TSP command with 2051 assuming Operations Command. TSP shut down shortly after via NYSP SB @ RT134 & NCPD NB @ RT100. Operations: Vehicle 1 (Silver Toyota 4Runner) overturned in median with double ejection. 2 female pt aprox 30yrs old in the median. Pt. 1 identified herself as Jane located north of vehicle in median. Pt CAO (conscious, alert, oriented) complaining of severe pelvic pain with obvious break to right tib-fib with bone protruding. 2253 and E248 crew assigned to Pt 1 stabilization awaiting EMS. E248/2253 apply no-neck collar and stabilize tib-fib with rolled towels and triangle bandages to limit movement. Care transferred to 53B1 & 36M1 with departure for WCMC after approximately 13 minutes. Pt. 2 found unconscious in median face down south of vehicle. Identified by Pt. 1 as Alison. 2052 & R-36 assigned to Patient 2 with second member of 36M1 advising load and go to WCMC via 54B1. 2052 & R-36 assist 54B1 with collar, and boarding of Patient 2 while 36M1 began ALS protocol. 36M1 Reporting Patient 2 as having distressed vital signs and apparent additional trauma to abdomen with possible internal bleeding. 54B1 w/ 36M1#2 departed for WCMC after approximately 6 minutes. Vehicle 2 (Red Mazda RX-7) found in NB #1 lane nose against bridge abutment with single occupant (Pt. 3) identified as John aprox 21years old out of vehicle CAO reporting no injuries other than air bag burns to wrists. No other obvious trauma noted by R37/E94 crew assigned to Vehicle 2. Pt. 3 refused medical attention and requests by crew to board and collar as precaution. R37/E94 turned care of Pt. 3 over to 53B2 & 34M1 after aprox 7 minutes. Pt 3 RMA at scene with 34M1 securing signature from Patient 3. Pt. 3 tx by NCPD to unknown location at Pt. req. R36, E248, 2251, 2051 remained OS to provide lighting for NYSP investigation until aprox 0209hrs (+1 day from dispatch). Stiloski’s removed vehicles following investigation. Follow up: All MFC apparatus responded to and from alarm without incident and to the extent known so did all other agency’s apparatus. No noted injuries or hazardous exposures of MFC or other personnel reported over duration of incident. MFC FF Jones reported a tear to T/O pants while securing battery of Vehicle 1. Pants placed O/O/S to AAA for repair and spare set issued. BMFD reported missing backboard & trauma bag following alarm. MFC apparatus checked and items found on R36. To be returned to BMFD by Lt2256. End of narrative. Submitted by John Q. Fireguy, Chief Millwood FD, Car 2251

COMMANDCHIEF and I were both dealing with Sutphen East around the same time. It's like we'd talk and they would hear Greek coming from out mouths. My old college department of Gettysburg, PA just south of where this Sutphen/Mack was put in service has a 2004 Sutphen Engine/Rescue as Rescue 1 and just took delivery of a brand new Sutphen Engine as Engine 1-1. They heard that Sutphen East sucked (which they do)... And had the trucks built in the western facility. They've been THRILLED. Every other Sutphen in the county is rock solid too. They were all built out west. Finally.... The entire Orlando FD fleet for thirty years has been Sutphens. But guess what they're all made out west. Engines, Towers, Heavy Rescue, Hazmat. The headquarters station is directly outside of my office window 16 stories below. They turn a Tower, two Engines, Heavy Rescue, Hazmat, Dive Team, and Ambulance out of that station all day long and they love their Sutphens. The entire fleet consists of over 25 Sutphens including spares and they continue to buy them....

I believe that the reason why this works, isn't because you've actually created enough force to beat the door off it's magnetic lock, but rather because magnets are subject to losing their polarity when subjected to physical shock. Often times if you drop a magnet from the 'fridge onto the floor enough times, it won't work. Thus, by striking the top of the door where the electromagnet is holding the door closed, you are temporaraly disrupting the polarity that allows the magnet to secure the door thus the door is released. Without using the halligan to pre-load the door to the direction you need it to go, the magnet will recover it's polarity and you won't be able to open it. I don't know if I'm correct about this so someone please correct me if I'm not.

The rig was probably purchased cheap from Sutphen in "as is" condition white over red. It was most likely painted green by a former chief of the Heidlersburg FD in PA who has an extensive heavy truck shop where he has the east coast body repair contract for Roadway Trucking as well as National Trucking. He also runs a small fire apparatus manufacturing company out of the same shop. He does a ton of custom work as well as retro fits rigs with enclosed cabs, larger rescue style bodies put on older pumpers, etc. He also restors antiques.... He did Millwoods Brockway for me while I was down there in the mid 1990's at school (not cheap though) and he's in the middle of doing my B-model now although he's had it for two years.

IzzyEng4 had brought up in a prior topic thread that Sutphen had built a pumper with a Mack Tranny and Motor under what was supposed to be a new manufacturing agreement. The agreement went no where and the result was one piece of apparatus being built to my knowledge. Some form of legal battle over the rig and it's labeling ensued. If the picture didn't attach to this post, go to this link. You can't miss it. http://www.centralpafire.com/forum/showthr...hp?t=98&page=69 While I was in college, my department was the first due truck and rescue into the companys box who bought this truck from Sutphen. Pictures have been hard to come by, but here it is. I'm not sure if the Bulldog and the Mack emblem are still on the front of the rig. The department is in Pennsylvania... Adams County Company 25... They also run a Mack CF600 Engine (Formerly Engine 25, now Engine 25-1 with the addition of the Sutphen-Mack which is Engine 25-2) they've also got a Mack R Model Tanker an a Ford F-series light rescue (called a Special Unit as a county label)

Speaking of costs..... When I saw the Starfighters a few months back I was with a buddy and his dad. The father used to fly F104 Starfighters for the Italian Air Force before moving to Croton over 30 years ago......he got a chance to talk with the team. They said, if everything goes "well" that each time they go up for a 15 or so minute hop at an airshow, it costs about $7,000. "Well" being the operative word. Both the Mig and the F104 were designed in the '50's and like any classic vehicle they demand a serious premium to keep them in usable shape.

Millwood had E245. A 1957 (maybe a 1958 I can't recall this moment) tandem axle B model Mack. It was in service until Tanker 15 was placed on the line in 1995. It had a 5 man enclosed cab and was white over red.

This doesn't seem that strange to me at all. I recently saw two retired Lockheed F104 Starfighters that are now privately owned flying at an airshow in Central Florida. www.starfighters.net "The Starfighters Team operates two F-104 Starfighters and has a third awaiting restoration in the hangar. The two operational aircraft were originally in service with the Royal Canadian Air Force. They both later served with the Royal Norwegian Air Force before being imported into the US in private hands"

Before my departure south of the Mason Dixon.... Rescue 36 had a 30lb "D" Engine 247 had a CO2 cartridge propelled "D" that was quite old but was certified by AAA. E248 had a 30lb "D" that was delivered with it in 2004 but I can't recall if it was mounted or not.

Want to get the Mayor's attention.... It's silly but would sure as hell work... Get a rig from each of the M/A departments as well as any other (vollie or not) that are willing to support the FDMV. Fill the street in front of the Mayor's house with rigs at 6am on a Saturday. Have each rig lean on the Federal "Q" and air horn until the air tanks are empty. When all the neighbors come out to see why there are 30 fire trucks from outside MV making that kind of noise explain to them. Repeat at city hall on Monday. The news will show up to cover the disturbance. The news will cover a big noise complaint, but not the fact that the firefighters of FDMV, and their mutual aid companies are put in grave danger every time an alarm box is struck. If waking the Mayor out of bed is the only way to get noticed then do it. Make signs to hang outside of each fire station that say "THERE ARE ONLY 2 FIREFIGHTERS WORKING HERE TODAY" OR "THE FIRE TRUCK THAT PROTECTS THIS NEIGHBORHOOD HAS BEEN O/O/S FOR 8 MONTHS"

Elections are definatly becomming popularity contests. There is an example of this going on right now in Westchester County that I wish I could comment more specifically on, but because I'm in Florida and not directly involved any more I'll let it come to bear through other channels as the folks directly related see fit to discuss it. From a non specific standpoint, the issue involves whether or not various elected representatives, the fire department, and exectuive board feel if someone is the appropriate choice to be an officer. The individual has filled this position before with tremendous success and they have the support of the firefighters. However, other people who don't know the first thing about the fire service are preventing this extraordinary firefighter from once again assuming the role of teacher and leader even though the men whom he would teach and lead endorse him. They are doing this becuase the individual in question is a progressive, motivated, and effective leader who doesn't roll over for politics or to make people feel warm and fuzzy. He wants to accomplish a goal as fast as safely possible and make sure that all citizens and firefighters wake up safe and sound the next morning. If all that happens then he extends his hand with a thanks to his men. If it doesn't, or there is room for improvement, he doesn't sugar coat it. It will be taught at the next drill. At the end of the day, fire departments exist to provide fire and rescue services to the communities that they are charged with protecting. So many ranking officials in the fire service and those who have oversight of the fire servce have lost track of the notion that the decisions that are made insofar as election of officers, purchase of equipment, and who to call for mutual aid need to have one single question asked before they are made "Is this election, purchase, decision the very best choice for the citizens of the fire district" If the answer is no in any way, then it must be readdressed. There is no room for popularity in the fire service. The best man for the job, the best equipment purchsed at the most reasonable price, and the closest mutual aid unit that fulfills the assignment are all that counts. Friendship and warm fuzzies come after these decisions have been made.

If you are merely looking to get the fire put out quickly here are a few tricks I've learned over the years..... For the trunk, if you can't get it open and you need to get the fire put out, don't waste time firing up the saw or spreaders. Take a halligan or a sledge hammer and take out the tail light assemblies. Most of the time you can access the trunk through the space where the assemby was before you took your frustration out on it. If there isn't an interior fire, see if the rear seats fold down. Finally take out the rear window with tool of choice, then punch the speakers through the rear deck.... For the hood, again for a quick extinguisment without relying on setting up hydraulic tools or saws, take the pointed end of a halligan or pick head and pierce the hood near the front corners about 6-8 inches in and up (for hoods that open from the front of the car) then leverage the tool to peel back the hood like a can of tuna. You'll be able to get enough water/foam in there from each side to kill the fire. For old Saabs and BMW's whos hoods open forward (hinges are up by the radiator not back by the fire wall) do the same technique except by the back of the hood.

My brother in law has one. Loaded company truck. Got everything he wanted but the diesel (settled for a Hemi). I'm a Ford man and I'm tempted to convert based on the overwhelming functionality of this rig.

As a quick warning (that I've mentioned before) to all those who have new CAFS systems or new FF's who have never trained with them.... CAFS puts many of the typical residential fires we encounter out very quickly, BUT Suppressing an enclosed (ie: Room & Content) fire with CAFS creates a totally different enviornment than using water or Class A consentrate. CAFS uses VERY LITTLE water (think shaving cream) and thus does not have nearly the cooling effect that straight water or foam consentrates do. Thus, when you extinguish the fire you are left with a room full of superheated gasses that are nearly has hot as they were while the room was burning. DON"T STAND UP. Crawl back out of the room and establish a defensive position to protect against flareups until the room can be properly vented by the Truck Company if the OVM hasn't done so already. ALSO, if you are fighting a near flashover fire from a doorway, you aren't going to get nearly the penetration that water would give you (think of the difference between the force of a can of shaving cream VS a super soaker water gun). Once a room reaches flashover, the foam will begin to suppress the fire from combustable materials such as the walls and furniture, but the superheated gasses that are burning from floor to ceiling will most likely overpower your foam line. At this type of fire I would suggest a smooth bore and bounce it off the ceiling and walls to create an impinging fog. Just a few thoughts.... Millwood bought the first CAFS pumper in the county (E247) in the late '90s and I've had a chance to use CAFS a few times. Its great but it's not the total solution that some folks think it is. There is still absolutely a demand for straight water at a some fires.