mfc2257

If you haven't called already, I'm sure Mike (2252) and the boyz in Millwood would love to come meet with you guys to see what your SOP/SOG's for the new rig will be.... And to do a join Tanker drill so that everyone is in the know for when it really counts. Congrats...

http://www.rhvfd.org/index.html Just as Riverdale Heights was getting back on their feet with their finances and avoiding reposession of their apparatus, it looks like two of their career boys and a volly were injured in an apparatus MVA involving a DWI t-boning them. Driver with an injured leg, FF in jumpseat with a concussion, guy riding the seat with a minor injury to the back. All said to be home and hoping to return shortly.

One of the most dissapointing things that I've ever read. To be honest, I believe the CDC is not the proper department to head up this type of investigation. Frankly, given the technical nature of many FF deaths including collapse, HAZMAT, etc., I would say that the NTSB is infinatly more prepared to investigate than the CDC. The NTSB, by it's very nature has to carefully preserve evidence in large train and aircraft incidents, as well as determine mechanism of the the incident. I could be wrong here, but I think it's time to switch the focus away from the CDC and more towards a technical agency better equipped to handle these incidents.

Prince Georges County FD (and most others like it in MD and VA).... If you can't get your rigs out with vollies the county will provide career staff. If you refuse career staff your rigs will come off of county fuel, maintenence, and insurance... The county will stop recognizing you as a department and you will be eliminated from the box cards and no longer dispatched.... even in your first due.

I'll be there.... Back straight grandstands.... halfway up.

That's Gettysburg PA's (not Virginia) new 2007 Seagrave... My old department. I own their old B-Model Mack.

I could be wrong, but I think we have 4 USAR teams in Florida.... Central Florida (Orlando, Orange County Fire Rescue, Seminole County Fire Rescue) North Florida (Jacksonville) West Florida (Tallahassee) South Florida (Miami-Dade) Really I could be wrong here, but I remember seeing 4 seperate regional rigs for the state.

For those following this issue, please see the section bolded below. These guys aren't out of the woods yet, but it's a step. Officials: Volunteer firefighting system not broken From The Morning Examiner dated 2 February 2007 Daniel Fowler, The Examiner http://www.examiner.com/a-540910~Of... t_broken.html Prince George’s County - Prince George’s will not review its system of relying on volunteer fire companies to purchase and own much of the county’s firefighting fleet despite at least two instances where stations had or almost had vehicles repossessed, according to acting Fire/EMS spokesman Maj. Chauncey Bowers. On Wednesday, an attorney for the Riverdale Heights Volunteer Fire Department and Rescue Squad said the station avoided repossession of two fire trucks and a rescue squad vehicle by borrowing $40,000 from another volunteer department. But, Bowers said, “this process of individual companies purchasing equipment is not a broken system. This situation ... with Riverdale Heights is a rare occurrence.” About six years ago, Bowers said, the county’s Hillside volunteer company had fire apparatus repossessed and then the station closed within 18 months. “The repossession was the issue there, but ultimately what led to the closing I’m not sure if there were other factors,” he said. Bowers said volunteer companies own about 60 percent of the county’s heavy equipment fleet, including fire trucks and rescue squads. Montgomery County, meanwhile, owns approximately 85 percent of its heavy equipment fleet and has never had emergency apparatus repossessed, according to the county’s Fire and Rescue spokesman, Pete Piringer. “It’s hard to imagine that happening here,” Piringer said. Though Piringer would not say Montgomery County’s system is better, he said having a majority county owned fleet offers “more of a guarantee” of protection. “If you are solely relying on volunteer funds, there may be times when resources aren’t available,” he said. Still, Piringer said it is “not really fair” to compare the two counties because “the resources are so vastly different.” Prince George’s officials say the county said it has allocated more than $500,000 to the Riverdale Heights station in the past five years, including money for operation, fuel, maintenance, insurance and payments on apparatus. Riverdale Heights resident Janice Martin said Wednesday she is “not sure” whether she would be more comfortable with Montgomery County’s system, but was “surprised to find out how few of the apparatus is owned by [Prince George’s] County.”

About 2 years ago some of the brass in Pleasantville starting working with us in Millwood to begin running Tanker 15 in the Western parts of Pleasantville's first due. From what I saw before I left and what I've heard since then, a good relationship has been formed and there is a successful plan in place for water supply operations in that part of town. The addition of the old Tanker 5 (I really want to start calling it Tanker 17) will help greatly. On a few jobs, it's already been established that T-15 from Millwood and T-12 from Pocantico Hills can be onscene and operating within the timeframe that 2371 wants. They have done cross training so that crews from the departments responding as well as P-Ville know what to expect and how to create successful water supply. In addition, 2371 has used MA-10 out of Millwood HQ as a source pumper in the past. With 1000ft of 4inch, 750gpm pump (that moves more water than what it's rated for), built on a 4wd superduty chassis, it can establish a continuous water supply just about anywhere there is a body of water. I'm glad to see all of this coming together for P-Ville. This will also help Chappaqua who has a few sections on the Eastern end of thier district where they need to make huge LDH lays. One broken piece of hose or a bad hydrant and they need help. I know Armonk and Millwood have helped with supply in the past, but having P-Ville's tanker will add another layer of safety for firefighters in the event that they cannot establish a continuous water supply through a long lay from a hydrant.

Tanker 17?

Umm not sure which rig you were hinting towards with the 2+ interior AND an operator, BUT if you can't send a four (preferably five) man engine or a four (preferably six) man truck, then you might not be meeting the expectations of who is calling you. As a former officer, if I called for additional apparatus and an engine or truck marks up on the air, I expect that there will be at least four ff's filling the assignment. If not, the correct thing to do is to include your staffing number when you sign on the air so that the dispatcher or the OIC have the opportunity to go next due. "Engine 248 is responding with "three"..... "60 Control to Ossining be advised, you've got Millwood Engine 248 enroute with a light crew of three, I'll be alerting next due unless you direct otherwise" I use my hometown department as an example, but it doesn't matter who it is, sometimes you respond with a full boat, other times not.... It is your responsibility to let the requesting department know if you are coming fully staffed or light. If they replace you on the box then you'll get a chance another time. Just another example of how I think ego's have to be set aside.

In the spirit of full disclosure, I am getting my info from friends in PG county that I used to run with, (none of which are members or career FF's at Company 13) and a similar EMTBravo like board for PG county so the money cannot be confirmed.... the rest of the situation I think I've got a pretty good handle on.

Unfortunatly I believe that boot drives are no longer permitted by the Prince Georges County Fire Department. Even though all of the individual departments have their own charters, they still have certain county regulations to abide by. Carnivals and other fund raisers might get them out of this bind, but honestly, they've got to find a sustainable way to maintain income to pay for the Squad if they want to keep it. They owe $28,000 just to make this go away for now, not to settle all of their debt. The situation is bad enough that if they totally default and the county doesn't bail them out, they there is enough debt on the Squad to warrent losing both Engines (which they used as collateral) AND the Squad. There is definatly a need for the department.... Otherwise they would have been forced to combine with another department by PGFD OR lose their county maintenance, fuel, and insurance for the rigs (this is called deadlining the apparatus) which happened when three companies combined a while back and the PGFD decided that they didn't need a tiller and a rearmount. The tiller deadlined and will be for sale shortly. So the problem isn't that the department isn't needed, in fact the county needs to have an ambulance in their station so they forced one on them (another story for another time). The real argument from PGFD will be that they are in this bind because they purchased a Squad that they didn't need. If they really needed one, there would be a county owned Squad already in the station. THEN if the vollies really wanted a superior piece of apparatus with better equipment they could have bought their own. Please don't think that I'm taking the side of the county here I'm just stating the facts. The cold hard truth is that even in Westchester there is too much duplication of apparatus. There is no reason why every department south of Bedford Hills needs to have a ladder truck. Katonah has been doing just fine having TL-57 and the Sorkel before it running first due into its box. The Tower Ladder and Cascade craze in Westchester is out of control.... But that's another rant for another time.

Ok folks I'll weigh in here again.... The Riverdale Heights VFD is located in Prince Georges County Maryland.... A softballs toss from Washington DC. This county is where some of the very finest volunteer firefighters in the US are located. Unfortunately too, this county suffers from tremendous fighting between the Volunteers and the Prince Georges County Fire Department. The super basic description of what's going on here is that there are approximately 50 stations in the county. They are either 100% volunteer, combo, or a handful of county owned 100% career stations (although these aren't necessarily the busiest). When volunteers start having trouble getting rigs out, the county will put a few paid guys in the station. If the volunteers are able to recruit etc. and the turnout gets to the point where they don't need the career guys then they'll be pulled. This happened in Kentland and Bladensburg 12 years ago where the vollies had become so strong in numbers and talent that the paid guys were moved to other stations. Now, the county fire chief is a moron. Most of the paid firemen who supplement the vollies get along with each other regardless of the highly publicized fight between a few idiots at Kentland and some "paid maids" as they're called. AS FOR APPARATUS. These departments rely on fund raising, small stipends from local government, etc. to purchase their own apparatus. OR if they cannot afford to purchase all the equipment that they need, the county will supply what they need in the form of stripped down very basic rigs. Riverdale Heights made two critical errors. 1st, they got a county ambulance forced upon them a few years ago which has taken many of the available volunteers away from running fire rescue because they are required to staff the county ambulance... AND they bought a Rescue Squad (just called a Squad) that they didn't need. Unlike Westchester where there is tons of duplicated apparatus sitting right next to each other, PG county decides what is needed and where. Riverdale Heights didn't need a squad because there were three surrounding departments that had them. IF the department needed a squad and couldn't pay for it, the County would have placed a county owned squad in their station. If they could afford it then they could have bought it on their own. Looks like they couldn't afford it. So of the 15 or so squads in the county, there are about 10 that are volunteer owned and 5 that are county owned. ALL the apparatus in the county regardless of who owns it have maintenance, fuel, and insurance paid for by the county. (That's why when Kentland has enough guys to staff a 4th engine, either the county will provide a reserve unit or another volunteer station will loan one of it's engines to them) What does all of this boil down to???? Most likely the county will bail them out. How this will happen is up for debate. Either, the county will take possession of one or both of the volunteer engines and repaint them white with red PGFD markings and give them back to the station OR they'll help them pay the loan. The county will take possession of the squad and place it in service as a reserve or assign it to another station where a county owned squad is in need of replacement. Either way, the Riverdale Heights volunteers won't have a squad much longer if they can't raise the money to pay their debt, because the county doesn't believe that a squad is needed in thier station. .

Again... FD's in NY cannot bill for service.... But in other states (like Pennsylvania where the article that this thread was started on) can bill for services. The legislation that governs (burdons) emergency services in NY really has the the state locked in a handcuff of poor solutions. We (you guys since I'm techically no longer a resident) need to start lobbying for change. The most outrageous item that I've seen yet is that fact that you can't have a county wide fire department. Not to say that the individual agencies go away, but rather that they are governed by a central county authority. Until things at the leglislative level change, NYS will never be able to provide the OVERALL level of service to citizens, economy of scale to tax payers, safety to firefighters, resources for both paid and volunteer agencies that you currently get in even the most rural parts of Pennsylvania, California, Arizonia, Florida, Maryland, and Virginia. The powers-that-be need to start taking ques from areas of the country that are doing it better, faster, safer, cheaper....

There is another form of billing out there as well that has gained some momentum in recent years.... Billing for extrications. Again this is mostly happening in states that are actually Commonwealths (Pennsylvania, Virginina, Mass., and Kentucky) where the laws governing taxation are slightly different. So the gist of it is that if you are involved in a motor vehicle accident and the FD has to perform an extrication where hydraulic tools are used to facilitate removal, the FD bills the insurance company. In all honesty I've actually heard that most insurance companies are happy to pay that bill of a few thousand dollars usually because the sooner the pt can recieve medical treatment the less they will pay (in theory) in medical costs which we all know are excessive. The city in Florida that I live in (Winter Park - 3 miles east of Orlando) bills non residents for exitrications. If you are a resident of the city and you are involved in an extrication needed rescue you will not be charged. It just goes back to departments meeting the level of costs. If you break down the cost of providing a service for each incident that you go to, and there is a reasonable way of charging those who require the service without having to raise everyone elses taxes then in my mind it's worth it. Not to say that you charge for everything, BUT billing for reasonable items makes sense.

You guys are missing something here... Look at the location... It's Reading Township, PA. In Pennsylvania there are VERY strict rules governing the levying of a fire tax by a municipality. Roughly interpreted if it's not a CITY (think Yonkers or White Plains not Ossining) you cannot levy a fire tax. (A VERY ROUGH INTERPRETATION) THUS, in order to provide the type of EMS services needed many agencies both 100% volunteer as well as volunteer supported by career bill for EMS services. It's not to make a profit, inevitably they always face a fiscal loss, but it's to keep enough funding so the bank doesn't come and repossess the ambulance. I've discussed it before, but most departments in Pennsylvania own their apparatus and building. They are self supportive through fund raising activities. The local municipality will often times contribute by paying a stipend to the company each year, but it's not even close to what it takes to keep the wheels turning. The department I ran with during college is replacing it's 1977 Seagrave 100ft RMA with a 2007 Seagrave 100ft RMA... They will pay for it through donations, fund raising such as thier carnival, and finally with a small stipand from each of the municipalities that the unit covers for the rest the company will take a loan out and pay for it over time. You'll get more money for the truck as opposed to an engine, because it's only one of 2 aerial devices in the whole county so each municipality that has it listed as thier first due truck will contribute (think Katonah giving Bedford Hills a small stipand for the purchase of TL-57). With an engine, each of the 26 department's has at least one of their own so they won't be sharing any money. www.gettysburgfd.com There is nothing more heartbreaking then watching a bank repossess a piece of fire apparatus. It doesn’t just happen to country bumpkin departments either. .

Well I totally disagree with you. There are brighter lights out there yes, but in this current world of wicked fast LED flashing, lots of this stuff gets lost when it's still daylight out or if there is multiple lanes of oncoming traffic (including the responding apparatus) coming towards other drivers. I believe the best forward warning setup for apparatus is the following: LED lightbar or split bars for Trucks. Alternating headlights Strobes mounted in the grille or above the headlights like Seagraves or Spartan's Roto-Ray ontop of the grille Mars 888's mounted in front of the mirrors. Loading up a rig with just LEDs, just strobes, or just halogen lighting is usless. A combination of the three is what helps in all weather and daylight conditions. I've run my a s s off in the northeast and the mid atlantic and rigs that still run modern lighting with a Roto-Ray and Mars 888 are more visable then some techno LED rig.

FYI that FF has since succumbed to his injuries.

Well there is two definitions of what a Rescue Company is. First there is the training requirement for a FF to be assigned to a Rescue Company which is the first and most important qualification. Second is the requirement that the vehicle be equiped accordingly which is what I'd like to focus my reply on. If you look at the Westchester County list of Rescue Apparatus as provided on the county website, there are many "heavy rescues" listed. The fact of the matter is that most of these "heavy rescues" are only on heavy service chassis. Most of them are actually medium duty rescues (equipment wise) that carry a full complement of hydraulic tools but a scattered complement of everything else. The long list of equipment below, is what is required by Prince Georges County Maryland for a piece of apparatus to be listed with the county as a Rescue Squad (Squad). It is also from a thoroughness standpoint closer to what the 5 FDNY Rescues are like (not exactly) as opposed to what we have generally accepted as a rescue in Westchester. Now, PG comes under a lot of a lot of bad news for some of the fights that their various companies get into, BUT like it or not they run more fire, vehicle, and technical rescue calls that most other areas of our nation. Their heavy squad's are among the most active, best trained and best equipped in the nation as well. Company 14's Seagrave Squad has been featured in apparatus pictures on EMTBRAVO several times. Here is the equipment requirement: SCBA (8) SPARE CYLINDERS 60 Min (8) HANDLIGHTS (6) AIDE BAG (2) AED (1) EXTRICATION COLLARS (6) TRIAGE TAGS (50) OXYGEN SET ( 1) PORTABLE SUCTION (1) 7500/W POWER PLANT (1) 12,000/W POWER PLANT (1) FLOODLOGHTS (MOUNTED) FLOODLIGHTS (PORTABLE) (4) 2000/W FLOODLIGHTS (MOUNTED) (1) 2000/W FLOODLIGHTS (PORTABLE) (4) CORD REELS 50FT (2) CORD RELLS 100FT (2) FLARES (12) AIR SYSTEM 5000 PSI (2 CYL) KERNMANTLE ROPE (150’ ½”) (4) KERNMANTLE ROPE (300’ ½”) (2) NYLON ROPE (150’ ½”) (2) CARRABINERS (48) RESCUE 8 ( 4) RESCUE PULLEYS ( 4) RAPPEL RACKS (2) ROPE ROLLER ( 2) ASCENDERS ( 4, 4) MIN 1” WEBBING (20’) (10) HARNESS (CLASS 3) ( 4) STEEL WIRE SLINGS ( 4) 2” NYLON SLINGS (2) SNATCH BLOCKS (4) SHACKLES (4) CHAINS MIN ½” 15’ (2) CHAINS MIN 7/8” 25’ (2) BOLT CUTTERS 36” (1) BOLT CUTTERS 48” (1) GASOLINE CHAIN SAW (2) GASOLINE CUT-OFF SAW (2) SALVAGE MASTER OR EQUIV. (1) JUNCTION BOXES (2) ELEVATOR KIT (1) 2X4X18 CRIBBING (12) 4X4X18 CRIBBING (12) 6X6X18 CRIBBING (6) 4X4X48 CRIBBING (4) ASSORTED WOOD WEDGES (12) STEP CHOCKS (SET OF 4) (2) WINDSHEILD SAW OR EQUIV. (2) ABC FIRE EXTINGUISHER 10 LBS (2) CO2 FIRE EXTINGUISHER 20 LBS (1) CLASS D EXTINGUISHER (1) WATER FIRE EXTINGUISHER (2) HYDRAULIC RESCUE SYTEM CAPABLE OF 5 TONS FORCE MIN AND SIMULTANEOUS 2 TOOL OPERATION (1) SYSTEM WILL INCLUDED HYDRAULIC SPREADER MIN 27” (2) 6” CUTTER (2) 24” – 36” RAMS (2) 36 – 60” RAMS (2) 15” – 30” RAMS (2) PORTABLE POWER UNIT CAPABLE OF 5 TONS FORCE MIN AND SIMULTANEOUS 2 TOOL OPERATIONS WITH NO MANIFOLDS (1) CHAIN PACKAGE AND SHACKLES COMPATABLE WITH SYSTEM (1) AIR BAG SYSTEM (MIN 220 TONS) (1) AIRBAG SYSTEM (MIN 4 BAGS) (1) PLASTIC ROLL (1) PIKE POLES/ HOOKS (6) 12’ ROOF LADDER (1) 24’ EXTENSION LADDER (1) 10’ FOLDING LADDER (1) BACKBOARDS (4) KED (2) COME-A-LONG (3 TONS) (1) 6 TON WINCH (1) RECIPROCATING SAW (1) ELECTRIC CIRCULAR SAW (1) GASOLINE CAN (2 GALLON) (2) JIMMI JACKS/ACCES OR EQUIV. (4) TRENCH JACK/ AIR SHORE (4) PIPE CUTTERS (2” PIPE) (1) RAILROAD JACKS (15 TON) (2) RAILROAD JACKS (5 TON) (2) HIGH LIFT JACKS (3 TON) (2) FLOOR JACK (2 TON) (1) HYDRUALIC JACK (10 TON) (1) HYDRAULIC JACK (5 TON) (1) SHORT HANDLE FLAT SHOVEL (2) LONG HANDLE FLAT SHOVEL (2) SCOOP SHOVEL (2) MADDOX/PICK (2) SLEDGE HAMMER (8LB.) (2) SLEDGE HAMMER (12 LB.) (2) FORCIBLE ENTRY TOOLS (3) FLAT HEAD AXE (2) PICK HEAD AXE (2) RABBIT TOOL OR EQUIV. (2) ELECTRIC FANS (MIN 16”) (1) ELECTRIC FANS (MIN 22”) (1) GASOLINE POWERED FAN (1) LIFE JACKETS (6) ROPE TROW BAGS (5) WATER RESCUE HELMETS (5) COLD WATER RESCUE SUIT (2) SQUEEGEE (2) 2000/W PORTABLE GENERATOR (1) PNEUMATIC CUTTER (2) PRY BARS 36” (2) FLAMMABLE VAPOR DETECTOR (1) BINOCULARS (1) STOKES BASKET (1) FOLDING STRETCHER (1) PORTABLE CUTTING SET (1) PORTABLE RADIOS (2) WATER COOLER 5 GALLON (1) PNEUMATIC CUT-OFF TOOL (1) IMPACT WRENCH/SOCKETS (1) GROUND PICKETS (6) HEAT GUN / IR CAMERA (1) SALVAGE COVERS 12X12 (4) LOCK-OUT TAG-OUT KIT (1) METRO WSSAD (2) SALVAGE BUCKETS (STEEL) (2) STREET BROOM (1) HAND SAW (2) TIN CUTTERS (1) TOOL BOX (2) PIPE WRENCH SET 24 36 48 (1)

1997 or so 8:00am TSP SB b/t RT 134 Pinesbridge Rd. for the MVA into the woods with 1 ejected. The usual Briarcliff and Millwood units plus R-16 and a Y-town engine on the improper location given by the initial caller (in hindsight it was probably Yorktown's call technically by district line) Lady went into diabetic shock and with her foot pinned to the floor she drove off the right side of the road and into a big tree and ripped the car and subsequently herself into a million pieces. She was Class 4 upon our arrival. NYSP requested an investigation scene be set up...So myself and one of our Lt's (who eventually became one of the best cheif's I've ever served under) started turning traffic that was stopped around and sending them back NB to RT 134 to pickup a detour down to RT 100. It's going well for the first 30 or 40 cars until some lady trys to pull a basketball move with her car and fake left and accelerate right around us. We are lucky to get out of the way but she had to stop for another car infront of her... When we approached her window in anger at this point she rolls down and says "What could possibly be so bad up there that you are screwing up my morning and sending me on a wild goose chase".... My Lt's reply was precious.... "Miss, it's pretty bad up there, an Airplane crashed into an Oceanliner and then got rearended by a Subway Train. The NTSB is all over this one and you'll make our job a lot easier if you'll turn your pretty little Mercedes around and try not to run over anyone on your way back to the detour."

Ahhhh... My days of college in PA where I could get a Lager (almost no one calls it by the brand name Yuengling) on draught (draft... whatever) for a dollar.... That wasn't too long ago either.... 1996-2000. The only PIA with Yuengling is their stupid keg design with no handles and a different tap. I used to bring about 10 cases home at Thanksgiving, Christmas, and again before the beginning of the summer. Never lasted more than a few nights with my friends. You can get it on draught here in Winter Park (Orlando) at Mellow Mushroom. Not for a dollar though

I prefer truck work to engine work any day of the week...... Here are a few answers based on my experience, training, and either county or departmental SOP's where I have spent my time: Two man Trucks aren't Trucks at all. It's an aerial device with one firefighter and a chauffer. In a perfect world a truck company will consist of 6 personnel but no less than 4. Driver, the officer, and at least 2 but hopefully 4 ff's. If you have 4 FF's a good SOP for the crew is (and this will vary by whether or not your first, second, third, etc. due.... and how far you park from the scene) Driver - Operate aeriel device, throw ground ladders, secure utilities, assist with search & rescue (if aeriel is out of reach) meet up with OVM or Roof Man (if aeriel is out of reach) Officer - Scene size up, assist with apparatus positioning, search & rescue, OIC if first unit on scene, secure utilities if driver or second due truck unable to. Pike Pole/Can Man - Throw ground ladders, minor extinguishment with can, search & rescue, open up walls/ceiling for engine crew, overhaul Irons Man - Forceable entry for engine crew, search & rescue, overhaul If you have more than 4 FF's you can add the following Outside Vent Man (OVM) - Vent outside of structure at command's and engine crew's request (windows, siding, cockloft, operate from fire escape), throw ground ladders, search & rescue Roof Man - Begin roof vent at command's request, ensure stairwell door is functioning (and open if command requests), throw ground ladders, secure multiple routes of egress from roof for incoming crews, search and rescue It is very important for the truck crew to be working in conjunction with the engine crew and command at all times. A freelancing truck crew that opens a fire up before command or the interior crews are ready can do more damage than good and even fry their brothers inside. Ill timed ventilation can be deadly.

If BHFD was willing to donate to the DPW, I wonder if they would be willing to donate the rig to the county as a spare. There are a relatively small number of tankers in Westchester for the amount of hydrantless area. If one tanker goes down it's a big deal. When Tanker 10 was OOS after the wreck, it really left the west side of Millwood in a pickle. Tanker 14 is the next due rig and it's got to come from YFD HQ. Tankers 12, 16, 5, 6, & 11 all have pretty good runs to make before they can make it to the Spring Valley Road / Glendale area of Millwood. SO I'm not suggesting having a huge pool of spares available as 99% of the departments either have more than enough internal engine, truck, rescue resources or the surrounding areas are saturated with rigs that can make a reasonable mutual aid response...... BUT from a tanker standpoint, having a spare fills a need that can't be filled very easily.

Lots of talk about the same old stuff. Not a lot of talk about how to solve the problems. I live in Florida other wise I'd be the one to propose a group of career and volunteers to get together and talk with the county, union(s), chiefs assoc., town officials, and finally the departments who's leadership is stale and stuck riding the back step. (pssst I just made the suggestion for you) Sooooo.... Someone step up and start working on putting the pressure where it counts. If you're not willing to act, stop posting about the same old stuff because you're not part of the solution.