FFPCogs

I have to agree with others here: Without question the MOST important equipment for any Truck Co. (or any other Co. for that matter) is trained personnel to operate it. Acquire the tools needed (most of which have appeared here), place them efficiently on the rig, and then work your a**ses off to be the best you can be to get the full potential out of your rig and personnel. It doesn't matter what "type" of fire department your in...paid, volunteer, or combination, the fact is we are firefighters and as such we have a responsibility to do all we can to provide the best possible coverage for our communities. All the bells and whistles on earth won't change that or make a rig work any better than the people who operate it, paycheck or not. Cogs

"Democracy is the worst form of government...except for all others" Winston Churchill nuff said

As was stated first and foremost you have to learn, and then know the rig's abilities and limitaions as a machine. I'll assume that it was purchased for a reason, to fill a need... learn to use it safely and properly to fulfill that need. As for staffing, well I would always prefer to utilize riding assignments based on a minimum of crew members. When this is not practical or possible your dept.'s truck co. operations should reflect this in your departments SOG's. If you don't have TrCo SOGs, seek advice from neighboring dept.s/companies with similar constraints to develop them ASAP and then train, train, train and then train some more. Also just to reinforce an earlier post, look to the ISO requirements and NFPA guidelines as a start. From there outfit the rig with whatever specific tools that your dept.s SOGs call for, and that meet your needs. There are basics of course: a well rounded compliment of ground ladders: life belts, couple of 24s, at least one 35, at least 2 different length roof ladders say a 12 and a 20..if you have roofs in your area that require such lengths, one attic or collapsible ladder, a step ladder (or little giant) or any variety thereof that meet the needs of your response area. hand tools: say 4-6 halliagns, same for flathead axes, at least 2 pickheads, a variety of hooks say four 6 footers, two 8s, two 10s, one crowbar, at least one maul, tool box with the standard set of screwdirvers, pliers, channel locks, hammer ect, at least one bam-bam (lock cylinder puller), wire and bolt cutters, say 6 -8 hand lights, at least 2 cans, 1 CO2, and 1 dry chem extinguisher, ropes for hauling and life safety/repelling and I'm sure there's a few more obvious ones I'm forgetting Power tools: venting saw, forcible entry saw (both can be K12s but I would make sure to have 2...one for venting, one for FE), an air chisel, hilti multi drill gun, cordless drill, at least one portable generator, a variey of scene lights salvage: at least four 12 x 12 or better salavage covers, a chimney brush and bucket for residential chim fires, a coal shovel, flat or snow type shovel, a push broom All necessary fittings, couplings and hose for master stream operations per your department's standards Like I said I'm sure there is much more...but you get the idea. Having all this equipment is important, but I've found that it's placement on the rig is also important...In general, I suggest that the more often the tool is used the easier it should be to deploy. I've seen plenty of rigs where the equipment is just thrown on or slapped into a compartment, or worse placed for style not function, and when it's needed it's a battle to get at it. When placing equipment put yourself on scene, not at parades or parked in the firehouse. Hope this helps a little Take care and as always Stay Safe Cogs

I have to agree that this country is in deep s*it no matter who gets elected, but it usually is at election time. Maybe that's because all our problems are repeatedly hammered upon by the candidates for soundbytes blaming the "other" guy or party. Once elected it gets awfully quiet regarding all our ills again...just business as usual. The President isn't a dictator, (although some have tried) and they must work with the Congress so..... Does it really doesn't matter who gets elected anyway? The rich get richer, the poor get poorer, jobs will still be flooding overseas, the economy will still suck, we'll still be in Iraq, we'll still be in Afghanistan...sh*t we might end up in Georgia toe to toe with our old nemesis the Ruskies (anybody remember duck and cover) or bombing the crap out of Iran. I'm a devout cynic when it comes to politicians and their ideas and promises. That being said, I'm also a firm believer that if you don't vote you have NO right to complain (although the Constitution says otherwise). So yeah it does matter who get elected. For me McCain is less of a liar and opportunist than Obama and he's is (or at least was) an honorable man who suffered greatly when he could have gone home...he actually thought about someone other than himself. I believe somewhere in this man that integrity still exists, and even a little integrity is far better than what we've done to ourselves with the last few Presidents..yeah Good 'ole boy Bill too. Also having worked in a war zone to support the military, I would much rather have a man in the Oval Office who has actually served in the military, and more importantly is himself a war veteran, sending our young soldiers off to war. And at war we will most likely still be. I'm no Karnak or Nostredomus, but it has been suggested based on previous elections that the new President may very well be tested by our enemies within his first year in office. Bill Clinton elected Nov. 1992, first WTC attack Feb 1993, GWB elected Nov. 2000...well we all know the rest. Who will be better suited to deal with this dreadful prospect when it occurs, a soldier, war veteran, veteran Senator involved in foreign affairs and miltary committees or a novice 1st term senator? It's 3am John has already answered the phone...it's still ringing at the Obama's. Hey but if the polls are right, none of this matters and we'll be playing "hail to the Chief"' Obama. As a proud American I will always honor, support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America, regardless who's President. Cogs

I may be wrong on this but if I remember correctly the ban on career/union FFs volunteering in Maryland in general and PG in particular was declared unconstitutional and lifted. That's why places like Kentland have so many DC FFs as active volunteer members. My understanding is that all the county union FFs ARE prohibited from volunteering within the counties where they work, but can volunteer in any other jurisdiction if they so choose. To me this makes perfect sense, although I'm sure many union FFs would disagree and see it as undercutting union brothers in those areas where they volunteer. To me if certain condition exist a union FF volunteering in another combination jurisdiction does not negatively impact that local. Let me clarify, if a combination department has X number of union employees and those employees are receiving all that is their due per their contract (salary, overtime, pension, benefits ect), then it should not matter what the profession is of the volunteer members. Actually I believe union FFs should be able to volunteer anywhere they choose, so long as any contractual obligations are met for those union FFs "on duty". I have seen the argument that union members volunteering undermines the bargaining process..but does it really? The needs of any given department in terms of staffing are what they are. To ensure that coverage City officials will have to bargain in good faith with any given local. The fact that there are adequate volunteers (including IAFF members) to cover a jurisdiction above and beyond those needs does not undermine a local's ability to bargain for what is rightfully theirs. I guess I just don't see how volunteering hurts other union members other than in the growth of their local. (Union members of combination departments will still be paid their salary, receive their overtime, benefits and pension ect, and meet their minimum staffing requirements as determined by their contract and the actual needs of the community). I've been accused elsewhere of being anti career and anti union...I am not. I have the utmost respect for career/union firefighters because I have that same respect for ALL firefighters. I feel that union firefighters have generally gotten what they have earned and deserve through their collective efforts., I do NOT believe or advocate that they should lose or be deprived of anything called for in their existing contracts or gained through the bargaining process. So I am not anti union, but I am pro volunteer. If the necessary coverage can be and IS provided by volunteers alone or in conjunction with union FFs in a combination type department, then by virtue of this the community is well served. Cogs

I know the career/volunteer debate is a "touchy" issue so please realize that the following question is in NO way meant to be facetious or malicious...so to anyone who chooses to respond don't take it personally. How does allowing IAFF members to volunteer in a 100% volunteer jurisdiction hurt or compromise their local affiliate or the IAFF in general? Cogs

PJ, Ditto existing vertical openings/ventilation are the best bet on these roofs. That and good, well placed horizontal venting (a sometimes forgotten art, but that's another topic). Just to reinforce your statement, if you HAVE to cut, clean the area of gravel well and keep others clear..that gravel can fly like bullets. I'm not a big fan of PPV, but if your department practices it, these types of buildings are well suited for that evolution (generally speaking of course). As with every other aspect of firefighting..preplans, knowledege of building construction and repeated, in-depth training will help your FFs deal with these types of issues. While a fire rages below you is definitely NOT the time to have to figure things out. Cogs

Let me just add that I am fully aware that the above option does not fit with the current contract between the Local and the City. Obviously it would require a reevaluation of existing policies ect. But although difficult and maybe even unpalatable to some it could be done with just a modicum of willingness on the part of the involved parties. To achieve an outcome acceptable to the City, the Local and the Volunteer FDs ALL will need to give a little and respect alot. Also this type of arrangement is working elsewhere with no loss to the union members..remember these are countywide departments all incorporated into ONE Local...here's an example: Our Professional Fire Fighters, Emergency Medical Technician's, and Paramedics provide full time protection at twenty six of Prince George's County's forty four Fire & EMS Stations and daytime protection on Monday - Friday, between the hours of 7AM - 3PM, at thirteen additional Fire & EMS Stations. Same thing for Stamford, just on a smaller scale. Cogs The above quote totals 39 out of 44 stations in the county covered full or part time by career FFs..that leaves five 100% volunteer stations that are required to meet the same staffing regulations 24/7 and they do, ...so it is possible. Just another $.02

You are absolutely 100% correct Reddog. There is only one possible way in which the VFDs of Stamford can..whatever their reasoning...keep SFRD personnel out of their firehouses. That is to develop and implement a system that GUARANTEES 24/7 volunteer coverage...no easy task in the Stamford of 2008. Some suggestions to that effect have been offered here, but it is up to those departments to make it happen. The idea of 100% volunteer fire deprtments operating in Stamford is not wrong in general, nor would the citizens of Stamford suffer from such coverage...so long as minimum staffing requirements can be and ARE met, But having 100% volunteer coverage for the sake of having volunteer coverage regardless of the necessities involved is wrong and potentially dangerous. Another option is one practiced down in some counties of VA/MD in which career FFs staff some firehouses during the daytime regular working hours (i.e. M-F 7am-5pm) and then volunteers take the overnights (5pm-7am) and weekends. Now this may not be acceptable to all involved there, but it is one more possible compromise. All involved would better serve themselves and the community at large to expand their views and seriously investigate options that have and do work elsewhere. My daily $.02 Cogs

In the fire service we all suffer from the slackers that are a part of EVERY dept..including the SFRD. Yeah you've got them too..those who hang back, just show up for a paycheck, always whine and moan boo hoo hoo and do NOTHING for anyone but themselves. Their easy enough to spot at a job, and they are spotted. And the tool-a-tude is not just a volunteer malady either. There are career FFs who think they are the end all - be all of firefighting and are just as full of themselves as their volunteer counterparts because they are a "fireman". No part of the service has the monopoly on "bad apples", it is a universal problem (albeit for different reasons sometimes)and probably always will be. There have been and are abuses by a very few union members that cast a long shadow over the vast majority of career FFs/IAFF members who actually DO their jobs..just look at what's going on up in Beantown. If having "tools" among the ranks were a reason to close up shop...we'd all be done, regardless of status. My $.02 for today Cogs

NW, Thanks and I hope they all follow the calling..even my daughters (11 and 10)...yeah I know my dinosaur mentality is showing...LOL All, I've never been fond of the terms "good " or "ideal" parents...there's no such thing..kids don't come with handbooks or guides to judge by. There are just parents and BAD parents. And it's not too hard to spot the bad ones. All I know for sure is that I'm NOT a bad parent. Like all parents we do the best we can with what we have, and we can only draw from our own experiences. Cogs HFD good for him and kudos to you for a job well done

26 here as well...not too bad considering the lost brain cells of my youth. Cogs

The following is not directed against anyone in particular so don't take offense. I don't know about anyone else but my kids know the taste of Ivory and Lever ...just as I did. As for a good crack in the a** ect. well we practice it when necessary..and quess what no matter what those Phd.s say...it WORKS !! But that's just in my house. By the way my family is in no way "well off" and my kids (11, 10, and 8) don't have alot of "things"...but even if I had billions in the bank I wouldn't just give them everything they want. So even being lower middle class my kids get what they NEED from my wife and I. We work damn hard on instilling and reinforcing those core values I mentioned earlier. For all our hard work we've been blessed with respectful, decent young people who actually give a s*** about others. It ALL starts and ends in the home folks. We can lament the society of today all we want, but we are the only ones who can change it. For my (and my wife's) part we've done ok and will continue to do what is necessary to be a part of our kids lives...maybe if others in this world would do the same some of these problems would be solved. Cogs

ALS, As one of those who posted listing the ills of today and their affect on the fire service, let me say that you are absolutely correct in stating that it is the fire service that must change to meet the needs of TODAY. Identifying problems is only ONE part of that, and we've done well to list them here. So now what do we do about it? Well to me as I stated we need to develope the resources to meet the needs of current and future members and potential members. What worked or drove us in the past MAY not be good for today. If material or financial gain is a neccessity for attracting and keeping members so be it..than that is what has to be done. If other programs are needed than let's figure out how to make them happen. But tradition is also important as is the "old time" attitudes regarding work and commitment to the fire service. We may need to change our views in some respects, and offer incentives never even dreamed of 30 years ago, but to get them members should have to actually EARN them. Firefighting be it voluntary or not is not a hobby, nor is it a social club although social aspects are important too. We "older" members have a duty to help instill the traditions and work ethic we so sorely see missing in todays younger members. We won't reach them all, but with the proper attitude and (as much as it pains me to say) understanding we can produce firefighters as good or better than ourselves. Cogs Just my $.02

Absolutely 100% true !! But (yeah that damn but) because of the ingrained, hard earned and well deserved respectability that comes with the Class A FD uniform (cops and EMS too) we in the public safety services are held to a higher standard like it or not. We have chosen to become the protectors of our fellow citizens in our communities, and as such more is expected of us. When just one of those bad apples is "caught" it casts a very long shadow over the rest of us in the public eye. To the public it is assumed that all firefighters (and cops too) who work so closely together and in the case of career FFs actually live together at times, know all about each other. So when one or two do "abuse the system" it is also assumed that we all know about it and either participate ourselves, condone or ignore it. This is the perception right or wrong...which has been fed by TV and movies. It doesn't matter if it's true...it only matters that people THINK it's true. Also as budgets get tighter at home people naturally begin to question why FFs (and cops) get paid so well when they only actually "work" a fraction of the time they are on duty. Again this is the perception....and until proven otherwise perception IS reality. The wave of respect and admiration that washed over ALL firefighters after 9/11 has long since receded. Society in general has a short memory, as the realities of their lives hit home today. Money's tight, homes foreclosed in record numbers, jobs being lost..all of these things add up to make the public scrutinize public sector and especially emergency service employees much more diligently. All firefighters paid and volunteer know the truth and the dangers faced everyday in the fire service. We all know and respect what career FFs do to actually EARN those salaries. We also all know that abuses do occur and that 95% of the time they aren't tolerated, but that other 5% is what makes the news and determines the public's perception of us like it or not. It is up to us to change those perceptions or face the consequences of inaction. Cogs

Well the operating costs have to come from somewhere....and having sat through many a monthly meeting I can tell you 20Gs won't last too long at all. You gotta love the legal system though...where else can you take a 2 month vacation when lives, property and peoples jobs may hang in the balance. In reality it's seems apparent to me the Judge Tierney (whom I've met) wants this resolved out of his courtroom. Cogs

It's always hard to give a definitive answer from a one dimensional view. First off though..try before you pry! Why do we need to get in...people trapped? Or simply fire suppression. If people are trapped we need to get in ASAP. So for all the time needed to torch or saw through 1/2 steel plate safely maybe a couple of mauls to the wall is just as effective from either the exterior or the adjoining buildings. Obviously access from another opening in the rear would be the best scenario. If it's suppression only we have a little more time and our options increase. Here's a crazy idea...get a copy of the key(s) beforehand from the owner/tenant or have the FMs office order a knox box installed!! Always remember work smarter not harder. Cogs

Yeah that's a bit scathing to say the least. There is some truth though to the authors "opinion". His facts may be biased in terms of the actual "work" firefighters do, but to the public he probably makes perfect sense. And the public in the end pays those salaries. I mean c'mon out on disability but able to compete in a BODYBUILDING competition..that's just an abuse no if and or buts. I understand the union's duty to protects it's members..but let's keep it within reason. In this instance what this guy did is FRAUD and seemingly illegal plain and simple, and union support of that behavior only reflects badly on the union itself. When things like this come to light no matter how rare, union officials and members must distance themselves from and correct PROVEN misconduct/illegal behavior by any of it's members from the outset. There will undoubtedly be a public backlash, and based on this guys article it has already begun, which will have unfortunate results for the stature and financial well being of career firefighters. Budgets are getting tight and if further recession fears grow are sure to get worse. Career firefighters and every other dept and board ect funded by tax dollars are going to have project a squeaky clean image as well as justify their expenses if and when fiscal dilemas arise. ANY abuses real or percieved will only hurt them in the long run and may cause long lasting negative impressions for all firefighters. We are ALL beholden to the taxpayers like it or not...so we should do our best to keep them "happy" and eliminate any further ammunition against the fire service. Take care and as always Stay Safe Cogs

I joined my first VFD in 1980 at 16, and I did so because for as long as I can remember I wanted to be a "fireman". I and most of my firends who also joined were typical teenagers of the day in my area...smoking pot, drinking beer, trying to get laid...and avoiding school as much as possible . We were also typical in other ways though...we had respect for our elders and the community in which we lived and we were long term residents of that community. Obviously the world has changed considerably since then...kids and young adults are still the same when it comes to "experimenting" and seeking that sometimes elusive "sack time"...some things will never change. But as for respect and community involvement, these things have sadly passed from the scene for the most part. Now I'm no sociologist but some reasons as to why this is are blatantly obvious, at least to me.. First off when I was young there was usually at least one full time parent (or grandparent) to instill and reinforce core values into their kids...thank God. Today both parents HAVE to work to simply put a meal on the table, so kids are left to their own devices and influences. Back then society had a different attitude about responsibilty and excuses. Nowadays there's an excuse for everything under the sun...people don't take responsibility for their own actions..it's always someone elses fault. From this stems the unwillingness and in some cases the inability for people to actually work hard for themselves...someone else will do it. Commitment and dedication are the casualties of this attitude, and that's in every sector of society not just the fire service. Kids today and in recent years have been bombarded by TV, by the movies and in ads by the notion that wealth is the only TRUE measure of a persons value in the world. Anything that detracts from them getting "theirs" or any profession that actually requires getting dirty are of no interest to them..in general. Again without the grounding from home young people are easily seduced by this fallacy and never develope any interest in helping others. For VFDs this attitude is in direct contrast to their tradition. Todays society has ingrained in younger generations that you must ALWAYS get some material reward, otherwise any endeavor is not worth the effort. As we get a little older we have to work, have our own children and build a life...that takes more out of our paychecks today than it did in years past. My generation (I'm 44) is the first in U.S. history to be worse off overall than our parents. To meet the needs of raising our families, keeping a roof over our heads or simply putting food on the table in some cases, takes ALL of our time. Society today is much more transient than it used to be, people are simply moving more often than they used to...usually in pursuit of that all consuming wealth. Younger kids brought up in this environment don't have any real roots in any community and therefore don't become oriented towards contributing to any community. They to will simply move around following the dollar. Some of the other factors which impact memberships have to do with the fire service itself. The requirements to be a firefighter have become much more stringent...alot of time and energy must be devoted to training, certification ect. Many people just don't have the time to volunteer to do it. Also VFDs have dropped the ball overall in terms of recruitment. We will always have those who join out of family tradition and their exposure to the FD when young. But in general we haven't done enough to draw in those who may be willing but just don't know it yet. We need to develope methods and resources to reach them, and then actively pursue them. For career depts the number of those "going after" the available jobs has soared. Competition for the few slots available is tough and very few make it overall. Also there's the mixed blessing of the advances in technology. These have allowed career dept.s to do more with less in terms of the number of firefighters while helping volunteers face their membership issues a little more effectively. (Just a note here I'm all for technology to make our job safer ect) Of course all departments suffer from the budget axe..which directly affects the firefighters of career depts. Their liveilyhoods can be and are at times directly threatened. This also indirectly influences people's decision to join a VFD...in general no one has the time or energy to get embroiled in the fight for funds on top of their already busy lives. Fortunately though, for both career and volunteer FDs there will always be people who just want to be firefighters no matter what it takes. The numbers may shrink but in general like the military, we end up with the best people because they WANT to be here. Cogs

Thanks for the update Cogs

Your not too specific so I'll give a simple broad answer. If members are at the station and they decide Not to respond because they "don't want to" then they should get size 11s right in the a** on their way out the door...for good. Just my $.02

And I thought we had it bad 6 sq. miles with five independent 100% volunteer stations...LOL . My city is roughly 20,000 pop., covering 6 sq. miles divided by a river. Approximately 2/3 on east side of river 1/3 on west side. West side Company 1 - one engine Company 4 - one engine East side Company 3 - one engine, one squad/support Company 5 - one engine, FM office Company 6 - one engine, one tower ladder (downtown) Chief's office located at city public works facility Cogs

U.O. you are right Geppetto. I guess I don't remember it quite as well as I thought. Must be gettin old. thanx for the correction. Cogs

Not to get off topic. Joe , I remember Polycast well, and visiting him at the hospital. He is indeed one of the best I've ever had the pleasure of knowing. We (him and I) had a great trip driving the rig (actually he did all ther driving) to the very first FH Expo and Muster in Baltimore. Ahhh memories. From what I've read this fire (Selleck St.) was a job well done by all in the face of some very bad...well sh*t. Kudos to all and thanks guys. Cogs

Robert, I got that, and no offense here, but I was always taught and still believe that while homeowner info may be correct, people in stressful situations can and do make mistakes. What if little Sarah came home and went straight to her room or any number of other variables. Searches still have to be conducted ect..and like I said the sooner we get water on the fire the better. I'm all for standards as guidelines...and in most circumstances they are applicable. But when the "unusual" arises so must we to mitigate the scene asap..at least to me. But like I said I'm a dinosaur. I come from a tradition of aggressive interior FFing and right or wrong I (and most FFs I know) still adhere to this "style" There are other factors too..such as level of involvement. exposures and so on in which your experience should help determine any decision you make. Again, not looking to debate or correct anyone..just my $.02 Great topic by the way. Cogs CYA, insurance, litigation, standards, OSHA and so on. Sometimes it seems that next it will be no firefighters in a burning building at all. Just stand outside and lob water. That's the day I hang up my helmet, if God forbid I live that long.