FFPCogs

I just re-read my last post and DAMN my spelling sucks!......

I apologize for my misquotes regarding owernship of the FDs and properties of the Big 5..see what happens when we age...damn memory... :angry: . Red, I fully understand and can relate to having too many bosses..I lived it in Iraq for a few years, and at the very least it is extremely frustrating. I also realize that as of now ALL paid firefighters in Stamford are employees of the SFRD and are under the control of it's Chief and command structure. Regardless of what the City Charter says about autonomy, there can only be ONE Incident Commander regardless of district. Under the current situation that job will usually fall by default to the Deputy on duty as he will be responding with any SFRD units and they are bound by their chain of command to follow his orders..he is their boss. It may be a volunteer Chief's district but the paid personnel there are under SFRD command not his, therefore for all practical purposes the scene is under SFRD control. This is not necessarily a bad thing nor am I questioning the abilities, dedication or motivation of any SFRD personnel, but this can and does create an issue. This issue being that while the district authority is specified by City Charter, and by virtue of Incorporation as an independent entity, the practical authority of the scene is determined by the personnel on scene. It is akin to Greenwich firefighters coming into the SFRD district, and by virtue of that response Greenwich becoming the de facto command. All: Let me clarify something before I go on. I know beyond the shadow of a doubt that right now the citizens of Stamford are safe and well served by ALL of the firefighters there. I know that the fires get put out, people are rescued and every firefighter there does their utmost to serve the community..you all have my respect and thanks for all you do. OK that being said I realize that this may just seem like semantics or a technicality, but the legal authority of the volunteer districts is being usurped either with or without their consent. The following won't win me any friends with the Volunteers there but to me the majority of the blame for this falls on the VFDs themselves. Over the years the VFDs have relinquished control of their employees and therefore have no right to expect authority over them now. First by allowing them to become City of Stamford employees as opposed to employees of each FD as it was, and then by being forced to let them become SFRD employees. (It may very well be that those firefighters are better off, and I truly hope they are, but for the puposes of this discussion I am speaking of those former employees only as it relates to the autonomy of the VFDs). These concessions by the VFDs were a result of their divisive and self serving agendas in the past, and their inability to stand as one in the face of the City Adminstration's pressures. Combined the VFDs have the resources, finances and manpower to effectively serve their community and withstand any further encroachment by Malloy and Co...it seems only the will to change is lacking. My apologies to any who may be offened, but I try to speak as bluntly, honestly and objectively as I can..nothing personal. So enough of the history lesson...the important thing is where does this all go from here? I have noticed that many posts here fall within the well established career vs. volunteer battle lines, and I guess that is to be expected. Is it possible to move past those lines and work towards a solution? It's obvious to me that almost without fail all who post here are knowledgeable and dedicated fire service professionals whose main concern the community, and that is the common ground we all share from which to start. I have put forth alternatives in good faith that I truly believe are realistic, practical and can help rectify the situation to the benefit of all. If that sounds arrogant or conceited I apologize again. I guess what I'm saying is this..What solutions or alternative do YOU ALL have? I challenge all who post here to put forward alternatives for discussion to move forward instead of festering in this mess. Cogs

That reminds me of another point. How many Aeialscopes stared their life in busy FDNY Co.s and after their replacement STILL serve other Departments with a little refurbishment. You can get a serviceable Aerialscope in service out of the FDNY, and refurb it for about a 1/4 to 1/3 of the price of a new unit and still get 10-15 GOOD years out of it. While imitation may be the sincerest form of flattery, when it comes to tower ladders NOTHING beats the original. Cogs

Thanks Joe, my mistake. Cogs

In my experience Aerialscopes are the best tower ladder going.and serve that role better than any other. The design has been in service for many years with the FDNY and other dept.s with an overall excellent record. The stabilizer system , bucket layout and operating parameters are well designed with firefighting in an urban environment in mind but translate well to other demographics as well. Like with most things..you get what you pay for. If a department can afford an Aerialscope, and a tower ladder is what is needed it is money well spent. And I tend to agree, a basic design that for close to 40 years has had units continuously in service speaks for itself. Cogs

I would put nothing past the City administration at this point, but a tanker stationed on Haig Ave. seems a stretch. Has any of this information been verified or even mentioned by anyone else..I mean this type of story would surely make the rounds if there were even a kernel of truth to it. And who's going to pay for this new facility? Even the most uninterested taxpayer would have to question a costly new facility when there are already at least 2 already in existence that would similarly fit the bill. Correct me if I'm wrong but the City owns the firehouses and their property (except LRFCo I believe) don't they, so why build a new building at all? If a consultant's study actually backs this idiotic, costly and utterly ridiculous proposal than I think an investigation of that firm and it's relation to Malloy and Co. would be in order. Just a rhetorical question to my VFF friends in Stamford to think about...what are you going to do if this is true? Best of luck and as always I stand with you all. Cogs

Congrats, keep up the good work. Cogs

All very interesting, and eye opening. Although some "facts" may be somewhat skewed as with any political message, the core of the man is right on the money. One thing I do find troubling is the references to Obama's faith..as a conservative, hawkish and patriotic American I don't give a rats a** what someone's religion is so long as they can do the job. Being a Moslem is not in and of itself a bad thing, nor is it a incompatable with being President. Even wanting to "talk" with Moslem states and anti-American leaders is OK..under the right conditions (from a position of strength, not weakness). As American's any religious (or any type of) persecution or predjudice should not be a part of our decision making or be tolerated. Basing our views on those factors makes us no better than Nazis. Remember your history..we have fought against regimes dominated by this type of thinking for the last century. Thinking like this or using religion (or race) as a scare tactic, does a great disservice to and shows the utmost contempt for those Americans who have sacrificed their lives for freedom. There is no need to bring Obama's past, present or future religious convictions into this..his liberal policies and track record speak for themselves if voters would just "listen". I've posted many a diatribe on these threads regarding the upcoming election so I will not repeat them here (yeah I know...thank God), other than to say Barak Obama is the wrong man at the wrong time for our country. It may well turn out that he will make a great President, and I might even vote for him.......just not in 2008. Unfortunately due to the recent economic troubles wiping out any surge McCain may have enjoyed I don't think it would have really mattered who the Democratic candidate is...the White House will go to the Dems. Cogs

Congatulations on the best of all deliveries. Glad to hear all are well, and I see she is already on a career track...lol. Best wishes to all Cogs

I would have to say that yes, time of day and municipality(s) involved would be a factor in any response. Keeping that in mind I would also have to say that I'm sure ALL responders arriving at such an incident would do their absolute best to mitigate the disaster. Personally I believe that any such incident would be resolved with the utmost professionalism and dedication just as they always have been. Would mistakes be made..I would bet on it, especially as the incident develops and communications break down. Since MCIs are not a normal part of most departments responses most would be "flying by the seat of their pants" to some extent... as we all know drills and reality can be very different things. I think the largest factor is not so much how many responders, where they are from or are they volly or career...no I think the most important factor is the professionalism of the responders themselves. Professionals will approach the scene for what it is, rely on whatever training they have to make judgements and decisions to take action, and then go about doing it....(including most importantly ensuring the proper resources are there or on the way). Professionals will transfer command when necessary or prudent, and remain calm in the face of overwhemling circumstances while working diligently and safely to save as many as possible. Obviously some departments have better resources immediately available, and career depts would most likely have more manpower available initially, and these factors will determine to an extent the outcome. But even some (if not most) paid departments along the NYC commuter rail systems in NY, CT and NJ would be initially overwhelmed by such an incident. We here in the Northeast are generally behind our West coast brothers when it comes to ICS and interoperability, but I am sure we here would handle any such incident to the best of our abilities...because we have to. The only thing that will help prepare us is to train as best we can to face MCIs. Any department out there has the potential to face an incident no matter how rural, (school bus accidents come to mind), so we should all be doing a minimum of MCI training (say 3-4 drills a year). For those with a higher, more diverse potential our training should reflect this as well. Since communications would be a major factor, then we should be doing all we can to work out any glitches BEFORE they happen for real..here again is where professionalism comes in even before the incident. For me I am fan of more regionalized training, incorporating as many departments as possible in a variety of disciplines. I would hope that many departments have learned since 9/11 that we are all dependent on one another exponentially as incidents grow larger. Departments out in CA have traditionally worked well together, because they have a history of large scale cooperative operations due to the huge wildfires and very real potential of earthquakes they regularly face. We here could definitely learn a thing or two about these types of larger scale operations from our West coast colleagues...even if only from a logistical standpoint. I've been overseas for a while so I may be out of touch, (and maybe this is another topic) but here's an important question I think should direct any department in our post 9/11 world. Does your department have a specific protocol(s) for reponding to large scale incidents? If so what do they cover both incoming and outgoing, local? regional? statewide? or for that matter national? Not to get off track but I believe we in the fire service need to sit down and develop definitive response protocols (and training) on a national and regional scale to deal with future large disasters either natural or man made to better serve our citizens. Or maybe I'm just crazy... . Cogs

You know what's funny? The Democrats..the party of the "People" have raised more money than ANY other party or campaign in history to get Obama to the White House. And where do you think that money comes from? Those very same corporate giants and wealthy Americans they say their going to go after and make pay to relieve the middle class....yeah right! (BTW Obama is going to attend a fundraiser tonite in Hollywood that is estimated will raise 9 million dollars for his campaign. Guess what...other than the workers, there won't be ONE middle class person there). Another interesting point...try as they might the Democrats have tried to pin our couintry's economic ills on the Republicans alone. "Our economy is in trouble and the middle class is suffering and it's all GWBs fault" they say. The truth is the law MAKING body...the part of government that can directly impact those ills..has been under Democrat control for most of GWs tenure. "We have the largest deficit ever" say the Dems..they neglect to mention that as the MAJORITY in Congress they control that spending. Say what you want but at least the Republicans make no secret of their bias towards the wealthy. Like it or not..if the rich don't spend ..we don't work, that's capitalism. Cogs

Joe, Thanks for reminding me of this very simple and often overlooked fact. We can and must NEVER forget the sacrafices made by all on that horrible day, but we must also never lose sight of the efforts of those who survived and rescued thousands from death. Their heroism, and dedication to helping others is sometimes lost in my thoughts because of the magnitude of the tradgedy suffered by the FDNY, NYPD and PAPD. To all those who survived and carried on under the crushing weight of their loss and the horror of that scene...THANK YOU. Cogs

Interesting story, and not completely unbelievable. The City charter or not will simply sidestep the volunteers and through lack of funding put them all out of business. It is no secret (or it shouldn't be) that many in Stamford want one fully paid fire department. This goal has been around since I was a member 20 years ago. I said it then and I'll say it again..The ONLY hope the volunteers have is to unify. 5 seperate entities each with it's own budgets, agendas, SOGs, equipment ect ect is costly, redundant and in light of current events divisive. Each of the VFDs has traditionally pursued it's own path with little or no regard for the others. Each has been so concerned with their own agendas that they have helped to create the environment that now exists. Remember the old adage "divide and conquer". To me it is inconcievable that faced with extinction VFDs there still find excuses try to keep things as they were. It is time for all VFFs there to put aside their pride, and think about the greater good. For the VFDs to survive they MUST devise a cooperative system or simply unify into one volunteer FD. All future adminstrative, operational and financial matters MUST be consolidated under ONE roof. It is the onus of the VFDs to show the citizens how they will save them money by keeping taxes lower than any other proposals, while meeting the NECESSARY operational needs. The VFDs have to ensure the same or better coverage than a fully paid department can offer, while saving tax dollars. This is virtually impossible under the current system, and I'm sure anyone can see that. The volunteers can only prevent their own demise by working together to prove to the citizens of Stamford that their existence is a win-win for them. Offering professional, timely and efficient responses at lower cost than the City's proposals will bring "John Q. Public" to your side..who doesn't want to save money. I've gotten alot of PMs and emails regarding the suggestions I and others have put forward on this thread. Most have said that they are good ideas but won't work there for a variety of reasons, all of which boil down to people wanting to keep the status quo vis a vis the volunteer system. I couldn't agree more....any change won't work unless the status quo itself changes. I think we all realize that what was is over, therefore it is time to see what will be..what is NEEDED to be, for the survival of the volunteer system...period. The Officers and members of the Big 5 (or what's left of it) need to ask yourself some very important questions and make a distinction. Do you want to be volunteer firefighters in Stamford, or do you just want to be volunteer firefighters at your current department? Do you want to save the taxpayers and yourselves money by volunteering or do you want to maintain your little fiefdoms? And most important of all...what are you willing to do to ensure the survival of the volunteer system in Stamford? In part the staus quo got you where you are today and is what threatens your future. So to me it is obvious that things MUST change to counter the City's plans and guarantee a long and productive future for ALL of Stamford's volunteer firefighters. Show the citizens of Stamford what you are willing to do for them, and they will respond. Together you can shut Malloy and Co. down, alone your doomed. Cogs If my statements seem harsh I do apologize..as you ALL know I have the utmost respect for all VFFs in Stamford, and what you all do for that community. Thank you.

I was at work and was enroute to our office/shop which was in our foreman's garage at the time when they broke in on the radio to announce a plane had hit the N. Tower. When I got to the shop he had it on TV, we watched for a few minutes when the second plane struck the S. Tower live on TV. I immediately told him I had to go, that this was an incident far above and beyond the norm and even my department in New Haven County CT may be needed for some type of coverage or manpower. Both towers fell while I was enroute first home and then to the firehouse to see what was going to happen. I spent a good part of that day at the firehouse waiting and making plans with my fellow members to go down and help. By late Tuesday our department had decided that no one was to go, but by then I had already been in contact with some FF friends in Stamford and was enroute to Manhattan. We did what we could and by early Thurs. we left ground zero and just went from firehouse to firehouse in NYC and offered our help in any way we could to the guys there. I and my friend stayed in NYC till Saturday night running errands, and responding to a few alarms with everyone else who came to help. After that we attended every funeral and service we could get to, to pay our respects to our fallen brothers. There are some things I will just never forget..the smell of GZ being one of them. Cogs Side note: Later on when the rescheduled primary election was coming up, a group of us from Ansonia had gone down to pay our respects at some of the firehouses in town. At one, mayoral candidate Green had stopped by just as we were arriving. As he stepped from his limo I was the first person he saw...he began to stick out his hand while saying how thankful he was to "his" firefighters, to which I responded that I was not a FDNY man..all this took place as his hand came up to meet mine...well as soon as I finsihed my statement he pulled his hand back without shaking mine...the FDNY FFs saw this and told him to take a hike..no BS.

This morning my wife had on that blabfest show where the women sit around the table yakking it up. They were talking politics, and the one Joy said something I found to be important..although I don't think it was her intention to make this point. She said GWB and by extension the Republicans have done nothing for her in the last eight years except "keep her safe", as if that were a bad thing. I mean c'mon, keeping us safe IS and damn well better be a priority. All the other issues, problems and rhetoric don't matter if we're not safe when you come right down to it, now do they? If people think the ecomomy sucks now, how bad do they think it will get if or God forbid when we're hit again. I really hope voters take into account the razor's edge on which we now live and the potential disasters that can stem from mismanagement of Foriegn policy and National Defense/Security. Remember that, (as screwed up as it may be), Homeland Security and the military under Republican leadership and support have been and are what has kept this Country and it's citizens safe since 9/11. While I'm at it, I've been reading and hearing on the news alot lately about American covert actions against terrorists. I find this reporting to be harmful, dangerous (probably politcally motivated) and a detriment to our overall safety. I mean I'm all for freedom of the press, but reporting on actions meant to be secret (even without specific details), during a time of war puts those operatives and their missions in jeapordy by acknowledging their existence. Yes Americans have a right to know what's going on and where the money's being spent, but that's why these agencies have Congressional and DOD oversight. Americans don't have to and shoudn't know about any COVERT actions while they are being engaged in..that defeats the COVERT aspect of them. As for those who argue that we shoudn't be going into Pakistan, or hunting down these terror leaders like the dogs they are, I say WAKE UP !!! These are the actions necessary to keep us safe at home, protect our service men and women at war overseas, and are the steps that have prevented another attack. As originally pointed out in this thread, Obama's plans WILL weaken the U.S. and put Americans citizens at risk plain and simple. Cogs

You KNOW some FF designed that..I'll be getting a couple myself. Cogs

I have to agree that FTOs are not really practical, and to some extent would hamper the "team" approach necessary in firefighting. From a practicality standpoint you would have to have at least one FTO to ride the rig with their probie. I think an extra body on the rig could be put to better use. And the FTO could not be another "regular" FF assigned to that rig, as his responsibility would be to train the probie, not carry out an assigned task or position on the fireground. Real world OTJ trainng has traditionally been accomplished by the officers and crew to which a probie is assigned, and has served the fire service well. The team learns the strengths and weaknesses of their new team member, directs their training to meet the needs of the crew, and watches over them...along with a good dose of ball busting. The same applies for VFDs just on a broader scale, since the "crew" usually varies the membership as a whole generaly becomes the "team". Taking a probie under your wing is fine, and I know sometimes FFs are even assigned the task of mentoring the "new" guy, but never at the expense of crew integrity. Unlike most other careers/services, firefighting is ALWAYS a team effort and it is the team/crew that should do the majority of the training of it's newer members to ensure maximum unity and cohesion. Just my $.02 Cogs

That's one of the best things I've seen on any site in awhile. Thanks Calhobs for the laughs. Man oh man..the dwarf..I haven't stopped laughing since I read it... Cogs

Gamewell, It's obvious that you've do your homework regarding the candidates, and you put forward some very important FACTS. Thank you. That John McCain thinks that unions have outlived their usefulness is unfortunate, and I totally disagree with that thinking. But (oh yes the inevitable but) there is some truth to other negative points about unions. PART of the reason Americans have in general such a high cost of living is that the demands of unions must be met. Unions are also a factor in American jobs being shipped overseas. In true American capitalist fashion "Big Business" is thinking of their profit margins. It is easy to point the finger at these "Big Businesses" as the villian, but they are only doing what their shareholders want..getting everything they can for their own. (BTW NAFTA was passed by a Democrat controlled Congrees and signed into law by a Democratic President). In essence Unions do the very same thing under the guise of workers rights and fair pay. There is nothing wrong with either one..it is the American way. Unions have their place, and are still a necessity for those workers who are members of them, just as there is a need for anti-union thinking. Why you ask? Because of that other uniquely American institution..the system of checks and balances. Each is necessary to keep the other in check. Big business would force us all to work for next to nothing, and for every union want to be met would put us all in the poorhouse. Yes labor issues and workers rights are important, no argument there. In truth though no matter who wins in November neither will significanly change the way business is done. John McCain can not do away with unions, any more than Barak Obama can guarantee better working conditions and pay for the average American worker. Those decisions and laws relating to them are made by Congress not unilaterally by any President. For me this election comes down to who I believe is the "better" man for the job and who will better serve the country overall. While I don't agree with every position taken by the Republicans..far from it, in regards to honesty, integrity and experience McCain the man towers far above Obama. Thanks again for your well educated and well presented posts. Cogs

Here's more good news about the state of affairs in the world..and Obama thinks military cutbacks are the answer. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080908/ap_on_...enezuela_russia Cogs

Stop the rip-offs. Paint your rigs with all the murals, decals, gold leaf and any other "artwork"you want, but make it yours. Customizing "stuff" is not simply ripping off the FDNY, it actually involves using unique "custom" designs. The only time I can see FDNY style being used is when it is in honor of them and is so noted or with their specfic permission. Sorry if I was unclear. Cogs BTW, on my first tour in Iraq, I "designed" a uniform patch for my base which was basically the FDNY patch with the NYC skyline replaced with a skyline of pyramids and mosques and using slightly metallic darker colors. This patch was purposely designed as such to honor the 343 lost on 9/11. In addition I asked permission to do so, and donated ALL of the net proceeds (about $2500) from the sale/distribution of the patch to the Intrepid Fallen Hereos fund...a charity that helps families of KIA and WIA armed forces personnel. I chose this charity because (no offense to any FDNY FFs) the 9/11 funds already had millions and I felt since I was supporting the military in person, and many soldiers bought patches, it was best to help the families of the fallen soldiers et al. And let's face it military families need all the help they can get. Sorry to get off track..point is I followed my own "rule" stated above.

I too agree with a slight variation. Letters on turnouts, paint jobs on rigs, hats, tee shirts, and all the other useless BS...NO Tactic used, lessons learned and equipment developed...YES Cogs

Here I am this morning reading my usual newspapers and watching the usual news networks, when the latests from Pakistan comes on. For those unaware an airstrike in a small village near Afgahnaistan has kiilled 13 including children. This on the heels of an airstrike in Kandahar Afgahnaistan which killed many more "civilians" and has led to an increase in anti-American/Western sentiment. So what's the point? Well due to our downsized military, airstrkes offer the only practical and relatively safe option to eliminate threats. It is true that our ability to limit "collateral" damage is better now than ever before. And yes this option puts our servicemen at less risk overall, but the potential negative reactions to this airborne "overkill" are and have been tremendous. I for once find myself in agreement with the critics who call for a revision of this policy, but not for the same liberal, pacifist, anti Republican reasons. Mr. Obama's plans to further hamper our military's ability to put troops in action as safely as possible will only lead to an increase in these types of "accidents" in the future. His calls for the reduction or elimination of the funding for Future Combat Systems will lead directly to the death of more "civilans" and children, not to mention most importantly, more U.S. service members. FCS programs are the ones that develop the precision munitions and weapons that allow our shrunken military to effectively do their job, reduce "collateral" damage, and complete the necessary missions as safely as possible. FCS programs are also actively developing new technologies for the average grunt on the ground. Technologies that will allow them to go in, destroy an enemy up close and relatively safely on the ground, and reduce the potential for civilian casualties when necessary. FCS will help to some degree to decrease potential future enemies...people who develope anti- American sentiment after their families have been mistakenly killed by our bombs. I am not a warmonger, nor do I take the deaths of American soldiers, sailors and airmen lightly. I do not want to see them thrown into battle needlessly. I am though definitely a "hawk" when it comes to matters of national defense/security based on what history has taught us, my previous service to my country, and my recent experiences in these warzones serving our troops. Mr. Obama's plans are dangerous to our national security, but more importantly to the men and women in uniform now and in the future. Our military has suffered enough from having their hands tied, and necessary weapons systems dropped. Remember too that we ARE at war, no matter how much we may not want to be. Our enemies declared war on us, our enemies attacked and killed us at home and abroad, our enemies are bent on our destruction at all costs. We can run, but we can no longer hide. Our enemies do not play by our rules and are just waiting for us to walk away. We can cut our military, tie their hands, and take away systems designed to help them win all we want, but in the end it is WE who will pay the price in blood. Instead of looking for ways out, we should be doing and giving all we can to help our forces WIN. Cogs

Good question, and good solution. Cogs

I too have been following this thread in silence, and can understand the opinions of some regarding Kentland. I have been there..and yes I've done a few ride-alongs, as I've done with a number of other FDs in my time. I can only speak for myself, but my time spent "riding" has always been used to observe, learn and on rare occasions participate. Busy departments are just that busy, and there is knowledge to be gained from the time spent with more experienced FFs. If that makes me a "stem-whacker" so be it. But those who have shown me the respect and open-ness to share their knowledge and experiences with me never made me feel that way, and have helped me to become a better FF in the process. We are not all running 1000s of calls a year and many don't have the opportunity to see what many FFs from larger busier departments see on a regular basis. Ride-alongs with those busier departments have given me the opportunity to learn from those who do, and to apply that knowledge gained on the infrequent occasions when they arise in my areas. It is true that Kentland does mostly B & B fires, but in doing so regularly they have developed some tactics that are applicable elsewhere. The fact that they are a volunteer outfit, albeit well served by off duty career FFs, is to some also a draw. I myself as some on here know, have suggested adopting a similar staffing program to "fill out" a volunteer system currently undergoing some difficulty. In my experiences with the KVFD, as with every other one, I was treated well, respected and enjoyed the time spent there. I have never had a negative experience with any ride along I've taken part in and I've always come away with something useful on the fireground. This is a credit to those FFs and Officers who, over the years, allowed me to share their firehouses and shared their knowledge with me in NYC, Boston, Houston, Kentland, Richmond, LA, San Fran, Baltimore, Philly and Chicago. Cogs ps As big of a stem-whacker as I may be, I don't parade around in FD shirts, hats, ect that I haven't earned. To me, those who do are an embarrasment to themselves and the departments they are advertising.