FFPCogs

There is another side to this as well. What about the money that used to fund Belltown and TOR's operating budgets? Some of it was supposedly absorbed by SFRD to pay for all this as well since they now respond into those districts in practice as first due. That's about $120,000 for BFD and what another $240,000 for TOR. So even if SFRD takes half where is the other $180,000? In past years the funds for the salaries for the VFD career personnel was factored into those department's operating budgets. With the career personnel gone niether TOR or Belltown recieved those salary funds in fact that money is still paying those employees as it always has, like I said only the shoulder patch is different. The fact that there has been an increase in salaries and OT just doesn't add up since the former VFD personnel are still paid at their previous salaries, but now they are a part of a larger pool of FFs to cover all the OT. Fact is the math never added up and never will and the statements to the Advocate by the "officials" clearly shows this to be true. Cogs

Ahhh Matt like me your a man of few words... . It may well have been the case that the "old" system was in need of repair, but as is clearly stated in the article the salaries and overtime costs have increased with the "assimilation" of the career personnel from the VFDs. This is in direct opposition to the rationale for the merger in the first place. The "plan" was supposed to reduce these costs...how I really don't know, but that was the bill of goods City Hall tried to sell us all. It has now become evident that, as expected by some (and yes including me) there will be no real cost savings from the merger. As has often been stated the only difference now is the patch on the shoulder, not the cost of those personnel. The article also seems to say that these costs are a part of the expected 840K shortfall. This is all stated (at least according to the Advocate) by officials from the SFRD, not me or any other volunteer. The fact remains that what's done is done and can't be undone, so where do we go from here? I guess that is the $64,000 question. Stay Safe Cogs

OK I'll bite first. It is fast becoming ever more apparent that this whole situation is an unmitigated disaster. If we are to believe Mr. Morganteen it is also apparent that the rationale for the merger was indeed flawed since overtime has not been reduced, in fact it is growing and if things get worse will increase even more. I can think of no better example of the validity of the old adage "if it ain't broke don't fix it". Cogs

Discipline....possibly the most reviled word in today's volunteer fire service. Discipline takes many forms here and while discipline as punishment does have it's place there is a far more important and ultimately productive form of dicipline.....the self discipline of the membership to do what they signed up to do. Suspending members or even terminating them is a necessary step, of that there is no doubt, but when those doing the "disciplining" are not themselves acting in a discplined manner it becomes a farce or worse a popularity based tool. Far too often a double standard exists when it comes to punitive discipline, with the end result being a complete lack of discipline and breakdown of structure overall (no need to cite examples as I'm sure most if not all of you have seen this in one way, shape or form). To be effective discipline has to start with members and especially the leadership having the motivation and dedication to do what is necessary without complaint or passing the buck. This is not always an easy thing to do, but it is of vital importance in maintaining the right atmosphere of professionalism that is the cornerstone of the fire service. How can one effectively punish (discipline) another when they themselves regularly break the "rules" or lack initiative? They can't. Members see right through that BS and if it doesn't change "vote with their feet". By no stretch of the imagination was I a "disciplined" youth when I joined my first FD, that came from those who trained me. And not with threats alone but with their adherence to a professional attitude and not settling for less in training standards or department operations to make THEIR lives easier. They led by example. I try my damnest to maintain that self discipline myself and pass it on whenever I can. Those of us who sit and lament the current state of affairs or regularly digress into reminiscing of how "tough" or "better" it was in the "old days" need to get off the pity pot and step up and help instill the self dicipline that may be lacking back into our departments. We can do this not only through our words, but more importantly through our actions. We must stand firm in our commitment to our departments through good times and bad. We must respond even when we may not have to or want to, not to let others off the hook, but to be "role models" to the next generation on whom the burdens will one day fall. We can readily share OUR experiences on and off the fireground not to brag or point out the faults of others, but to encourage a higher commitment from those who follow us. We can and must show the self discipline to always remain professional while making every effort to help others find that self dicipline for themselves...we all have the potential, some just need a little help in that direction. We can train our newer member hard, as hard as we were trained, not for the sake of being hard, but so that they LEARN. This is how it worked for me, along with a few good swift kicks in the a** now and then when needed too.... . For me only those who have self discipline have the right to dicipline others. Stay Safe Cogs

A Happy Easter/ Passover holiday to all from my family to yours. Stay Safe Cogs

Couldn't have said it better myself and God knows the author says it with far less pontification than I.... Cogs

Well nothing ventured nothing gained, that's for sure. What is to be considered effective, one new member or ten or a hundred. For many departments it may be well worth the money spent if in the end they get even one quality member. I say give it a shot. Cogs

It is indeed a Sutphen stationed in the Green Zone (oops International Zone) of Baghdad and operated by KBR F&ES. On one of my trips through going on R&R I stopped off at the station for a couple of hours to check things out. Like all the rigs in Iraq there's very little in the way of bells and whistles, but almost all are good solid dependable rigs that have held up fairly well in the harsh environment and relatively primitive conditions. These guys see the most work in the sandbox and unlike most other stations/FOBs they actually interact with the locals regularly on the streets since the Green Zone is an "open" area. During my first couple of years over there they were regularly responding to the multitude of car bombings people here saw on the nightly news. WSI operates Pierce engines, rescues and ARFF rigs as well as E-One tankers at their stations on the main bases and FOBs. Cogs

Nah. I know you engines guys can't help playing with your hoses and shooting early.... Cogs

I'll be the first to concede that there's alot of work to be done to improve the "system", but it CAN be done. With some willingness, perseverance and the coming change of "leadership" at 888 a different tune may indeed be heard. Our job, all of us, is to be ready to join the fat lady in singing it. Stay Safe Cogs

Spoken like a true engine jockey Joe.....

Anyone who's ever worked at a large construction site or been to a city dump in a hydranted area knows that hooking a couple of hundred feet of 1 3/4" handline to a hydrant (used to keep dust down and as a safety measure), is common practice. I can see where having a couple of hundred feet of handline on a truck co. for use in dealing with nuisance/car fires could be useful in an urban setting where there's a hydrant on every corner. Once off the commercial/industrial hydrant grid though it becomes more and more worthless as the hydrants get farther apart. I chalk this up to a company being flexible. They saw a need and worked a simple solution to fill it. Sadly it seems alot of what was once a hallmark of the fire service i.e. that flexibilty and simple ingenuity, is being lost in today's "high tech" world. Just my $.02 Stay Safe Cogs

Luckily she can improvise because there is still time to change the program. Cogs

She may be warming up, but the fat lady hasn't begun to sing just yet

Not only does this appear to be a house of cards, it looks like one with a beautiful open floor plan as well. Nothing stopping the interior spread of fire/gases here. This is no better than that first little pig's house of straw as far as I'm concerned. With construction like this it's imperative that you know your district, it will save your life. If anyone sees any of these traps going up please let us know. Stay Safe Cogs

Yes it's time for a rest from the not so merry go round. Thanks to all for the input and for the rational expression of opinions. I remain hopeful as well and as always stand ready to work towards a solution. Stay Safe Cogs

I can only say that these instances may have been the result of the expansion or attempted expansion of the SFRD into what is considered "volunteer territory" as determined by the City Charter. My comments regarding the VFDs not impacting 786s ability to negotiate refers to the bargaining processes which took place prior to these previous and the current situations. When I state that we do not seek to harm or "take" your jobs or that we do not impact the unions ability to negotiate for their current personnel in their current districts, the fact is we don't. Our only negative impact here is that we may possibly pose a threat to any further expansion of the union. To be fair there is much going on here from all sides that is in reality doing the citizens of Stamford a great disservice. I can only hope that those who seek a truly equitable solution, that seeks to provide for our community first and foremost, will prevail. Stay Safe Cogs

Matt, Thank you for your well thought out and eloquently expressed opinions. I being me will now offer mine in response. First off I do not hate the GFD or Local 786 for that matter, in fact I have some dear friends that are a part of both organizations. From my perspective I am more disappointed than anything else by some of the decisions that have been made by the leadership of both. As is well known by now I am a firm believer that the VFDs would be able to provide a higher level of coverage/service for the community if they collectively endeavored to do so. With the decision to accept the Mayor's ill concieved "plan" the GFD effectively negated their part in that possible collective effort because they chose to turn over the primary responsibility to the SFRD. And to be frank they in fact also weakened the opposition to the "plan". The Local's leadership for their part has steadfastly refused to enter into any meaningful negotiation or even acknowledge that there may be other possible alternatives to SFRD personnel staffing the VFDs 24/7. Let me give you an example of just one possible alternative that has been dismissed without even cursory examination. SFRD or paid staffing M-F 7am to 3 pm, with volunteer coverage for nights, weekends ect. (I have already drawn up an outline for this option which I concede will mean a change, but is fully within the realm of the possible). Downsides, well there are a few. First off for the previous 16 months there has been a drastic reduction in the level of response by the GFD, which does indeed negatively impact the department and their "service area". Not being a member of that FD I cannot factually explain the reasons for this, and I will not speculate as to what they may be, but the volunteers have not to this point effectively met their responsibilities to the community which they are there to serve. Another is that the taxpayers are in effect paying for services not rendered by the GFD. While it is true that there is 24/7 coverage of that FD this is due to the presence of SFRD personnel, not the GFD volunteers. Since the funding for the VFDs comes from the taxes raised in each district, and Glenbrook is now served by SFRD personnel then that is where the funds should be spent with any remaining funds then passd on to the volunteers. As it stands now the volunteers are fully funded in addition to the funding for the SFRD. This constitutes waste and in reality is a redundancy which this "plan" was supposed to in part, eliminate. The frustration which is manifest here stems from a variety of factors, but by far the most important is the fact that there was not and it appears will not be any negotiation with the VFDs. What are we to do then when those with whom we must negotiate will not do so? Your experiences in negotiation while admirable unfortunately do not apply here, since you entered into negotiation with another party that was either willing or by contract forced to negotiate with you. We enjoy no such luxury. On your next point I can agree in principle and fully realize that a willingness to compromise is paramount, but that cannot be a one way street. It has been my experience throughout my self imposed involvement in this debacle that all of the detriments you state have indeed been an impediment to progress, but you left out a major factor. The unwillingness of the City and yes the SFRD to accept alternatives to their plan. It may be that all Fire Services should be under the authority of the SFRD, but it may well be that that is not the case either. I for one have and continue to steadfastly believe that there are alternatives which in the end will provide for our community's needs, while allowing for autonomy for the VFDs. And that autonomy is important on many levels for the continued success of the volunteer system (and to me personally) until such time as we can be guaranteed an equal representation in all matters related to fire and emergency services. From another angle here, there is yet another major factor contributing to the current impasse, the agendas. Now if anyone believes that there are not agendas at work here, in fact driving this situation, then they are sadly out of touch with reality. I have my "opinion" as to what those agendas may be and to put them here without proof would be to devolve this forum into a wasted resource. What I will do though is make completely clear my personal view on how to resolve this situation (i.e. my agenda): I want to see the volunteers retain their integrity, authority and autonomy by working collectively to better serve the community through a variety of means which I have repeatedly expressed here. I would like to work with our career colleagues from the SFRD and once we have a firm foundation assist them to prevent job loss/layoffs and work collectively with them to ensure ALL firefighters in Stamford are supported. I would like to see an end to the consistent attacks on the VFDs by the union and an acceptance on their part that we volunteers do not want to harm them, take their jobs or prevent them from bargaining effectively for what they seek. (Let me say here and now that the VFDs have never negatively impacted the SFRDs ability to negotiate with the City in the past and there is no reason to believe our continued autonomy would do so in the future). In the end my agenda is quite simple...a collective approach with respect to each seperate part thereof, to providing fire and emergency services to this City on a level second to none. Stay Safe Cogs Whew talk about long winded.....

I must agree that the money will not return unless we play ball but playing ball is not the issue, which ballgame is played is. Cogs

First off I think it's great that the the GFD guys are training. I think inter-departmental training is also a good thing since companies that train together work well together. But I do not believe that the GFD is the "model" VFD for Stamford. As unpopular or unreaistic as it may be to some, I find the belief that Stamford's VFDs are capable only of being "support" personnel abhorrent. This may sound arrogant but I haven't spent the last 28 years of my life training and responding to end up being relegated to supporting anyone, and I believe many of my colleagues feel the same way. Now some might say that the VFDs can no longer "handle" their responsibilities, and this may indeed be true to an extent for some, but before taking the irrevocable step of forcing "specialization" or "support" roles on the VFDs every effort should be made to retain and rebuild or reinvent the "system" that has always served this city. How to do this is open to exploration and I would venture to say negotiation, but a good start would be to restore the operating budgets of the penalized VFDs and implementing a city funded incentives program to recruit and retain more volunteers (plenty of which exist within and outside of CT as templates). There is nothing to be lost by attempting these two simple things, but there is the definite potential for success which will be lost if not. No one can say for sure that this will work, but then again no one can say it won't either. There are alternatives to gutting the volunteers, and to be fair it is incumbent upon us, the volunteer FFs of Stamford, to diligently explore, create and enact them but it is also incumbent upon this City to give us the tools to do so. Cogs

What's the consesus on Matydales? I have over the years come to believe that strecthing lines (preconnected or not) off the rear of the rig is the way to go as opposed to the now "traditional" crosslays. The reason for this is twofold 1) When using crosslays the placement of the rig is many times wrong. Drivers have a natural tendency to line the mattydales on the rig up with the front door. Now I know we're all trained to pull past blah blah blah, but the fact is (and I've personally witnessed this more times than I can count) we end up with improper placement more often than not. Slow busy, paid volunteer it doesnt matter that first due engine usually ends up hampering Truck placement. By strectching off the rear it becomes the natural tendency to line up the rig for the most direct access to the front door, thus they normally pull past leaving the front of the building open for the Truck. 2) The chauffeur has less interference when stretching off the back since the only line at the panel is the feed line coming in. Gone is the tangle of hoses stretched in front of the pump panel and under foot, hence a safer operating area. Any thoughts? Cogs

Now THAT makes sense.

You're late G, saw this one on FH.com yesterday, but as usual thanks for the update. Just out of curiosity and not to start debating the validity of the actions, but how many here feel that the tactics being employed i.e. slashing the VFD budgets to gain compliance, is appropriate? I'll start and no suprises here I DON'T! So that's one in the nay column. Cogs

Rest in Peace and sincere condolences to family, friends and guys from is house.

Time for the Devil's Advocate to make an appearance. First off let's get one thing straight predjudice always has and still does exists everywhere, and it is not only black v white as we all know. I can safely say that if it were not for Affirmative Action or the ERA there would be far fewer minorities and women riding those big shiny rigs because the culture that kept the fire service a predominately white male service would never have changed. And since for the most part minorities had fewer educational opportunities they were not considered "capable" of doing the job and sadly this is still true today, (although to be fair there are other reasons for this besides simple predjudice on the part of "the man"). As has been mentioned here race/gender should not be a factor in becoming a firefighter or anything else for that matter, but truth be told that is not the reality of the world in which we live. Old predjudices die very hard, on all sides of the issue, and this is evident by simply walking down the street or better yet watching people's reactions when taken out of their "element". As insidious, destructive and ultimately ridiculous as racism/sexism are, it does exist and it does have an impact on the potential to gain civil service employment and in society in general, to believe otherwise is to live in a bubble. Then of course there is the one fact that has been overlooked, Affirmative Action or other quotas exist...when you willingly take an exam where they apply you willingly accept that this may have an impact on your chances of getting a job. If you don't want to deal with what may in the end be an unfair advantage don't take the tests that have quotas or apply in cities that traditionally use them. Just a side note; in the 1980s I was passd over for employment on a couple of occasions due to Affirmative Action quotas..was I happy about it NO "blanking" way but it was a situation I was fully aware of. I understood that right or wrong quotas are a fact of life Honestly I do not approve of AA or ANY quotas, but I do understand why they are in place and as unpopular as it may be can still see the need for them...but only AFTER candidates have legitimately and successfully passed every phase of the hiring process. Cogs