FFPCogs

I was asked a direct question about taking a job to which I answered directly...that is NOT stirring the pot. The responses to that answer on the other hand are. As for the Mayor's proposal, yes some of what I proposed to the Task Force does seem to be incorporated into his draft, but there is much that is not especially in regards to paid personnel. Maybe you should reread with your own eyes just exactly what it is that was proposed and who it was that developed it....here's a hint: there were NO 786 members card carrying or otherwise that were actively involved. Cogs

First off Aron you would realize that I am not the "author" of the "plan" if you actually bothered to read what it is that I proposed about fixing Stamford's problems rather than simply jumping blindly on a bandwagon. Your ignorance here is amazing and honestly quite unexpected. If nothing else though there is one small area of agreement and that is that there is an agenda behind this whole mess, unfortunately it's just not the one you think it is. Secondly when it comes to antagonizing and pot stirring you and a few others here have that honor sewn up Stay Safe Cogs

http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/opinion/article/Support-Mayor-Pavia-s-fire-plan-534735.php Bingo!!

Here's a link to an editorial in todays Advocate http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/opinion/article/Volunteer-chiefs-support-Mayor-Pavia-s-fire-plan-533060.php Stay Safe Cogs _____________ Peter Cogliano FF/ T.O. Belltown Fire Dept currently working with Dyncorp/LOGCAP IV Camp Leatherneck Afghanistan

Then you haven't been comprehending what you've been reading, but that is to be expected when one toes the party line so tightly they can't think for themselves. All I've gleaned from your diatribes is a load of regurgitated spoon fed propaganda mixed with quotes taken out of context time and again. But hey if that makes you feel better have at it, the truth speaks for itself despite your pathetic attempts to circumvent it. Stay Safe Cogs _____________ Peter Cogliano FF/ T.O. Belltown Fire Dept currently working with Dyncorp/LOGCAP IV Camp Leatherneck Afghanistan

You can't really be that niave can you? Talk to the IAFF it's their policy And just what exactly is it that you can see specifically? As well they should given the tactics and propaganda used against them throughout this whole mess Yes it was as was every other proposal. Stay Safe Cogs _____________ Peter Cogliano FF/ T.O. Belltown Fire Dept currently working with Dyncorp/LOGCAP IV Camp Leatherneck Afghanistan

The more I read here the more it becomes apparent just what the true motives are. As some have said this whole thing is about turf, control, politics and power and so it is, but the major player here is the union which seeks all these things at the expense of the VFDs. The "old" system worked and could have remained working if it had not been assailed under the guise of "controlling overtime" by the previous administration and the union. Case in point about motives becoming apparent being ....no one especially the union, even mentions controlling overtime anymore because it's no longer (and never was) important. The deceit and outright lies that have pervaded this affairs since the beginning are becoming more and more evident everyday especially on the blatantly biased and hype fueled Stamford Fire Truths website (oh and I'm honored to have been quoted on said site). In a nutshell it can be summed up like this Volunteers regard all firefighters as brothers, while union firefighters regard only union firefighters as brothers and single out volunteer FDs as "rival organizations". That is the IAFFs stance in general and that is 786s stance specifically towards Stamford's VFDs. It is that attitude that has been at the heart of this since the beginning and it is that attitude which has prevented any meaningful action towards unification and integration...and no amount of hype on a PR firm designed website can change that Stay Safe Cogs _____________ Peter Cogliano FF/ T.O. Belltown Fire Dept currently working with Dyncorp/LOGCAP IV Camp Leatherneck Afghanistan

I see so those people who were originally hired by the VFDs prior to 1999 are not "scabs" even though they were hired under the very same conditions you find "horrible and sickening" and believe this new entity will employ and were not union members when hired. So it must just be that because they are union members now it really doesn' t matter how they got their jobs, why then does it matter how anyone else gets theirs? Yes I have both on and off these boards and you sir have been very clear in yours. I respect every member here regardless of whether or not they do me, but I have to tell you it seems many of you have come to believe your own rhetorical propaganda a little to much. Stay Safe Cogs _____________ Peter Cogliano FF/ T.O. Belltown Fire Dept currently working with Dyncorp/LOGCAP IV Camp Leatherneck Afghanistan

If I didn't know better I might be intimidated by the picture you paint. Don't presume that you know what my motivations are because you don't. Now maybe in similar circumstances you may be motivated by the prospect of a job, but that my friend is a far cry from who and what I am about and those that know me know that. Stay Safe Cogs _____________ Peter Cogliano FF/ T.O. Belltown Fire Dept currently working with Dyncorp/LOGCAP IV Camp Leatherneck Afghanistan

Anyone who can read a newspaper knows the history of this affair, and anyone who can read the Charter can see that the Union has no authority to dictate what happens in the VFD districts. If you're going to try and disparage me please make sure to put everything in it's full context. Please do just PM me for my FPO Jason this particular point really stuck out as I read it. Just curious here but tell me do you feel that your union brothers and now brother SFRD personnel that came from the VFDs are "scabs" that never "took a competative written and physical agility test, passed a medical exam, attended a 14 or so week academy and work on engine/truck/rescue companies with a crew and boss" or that maybe they "couldn't get on the job anywhere through the front door, so let me just sneek in through the back", since after all the majority of them were hired by their former volunteer Chiefs only? If not why the double standard now? The return of SFRD employees back downtown may well solve many problems. On that note in answer to the question "why isn't it time for one unified combination department"?...a review of the last few pages should give ample proof as to why this is not a viable option for Stamford right now.

Oh you mean like the guys that scored in the 40s on the SFRD test and got hired over those with higher scores, which was to use your words... The fact is the Union "supported" the ill concieved and illegal plans of the previous administration and those plans failed. Now under this new Administration a new plan has emerged but unlike the previous one the Union has only limited involvement in the process. This because they have no legal rights to negotiate as they are not the legal Authority Having Jurisdiction and have no personnel working for the fire districts in question. End of story Stay Safe Cogs _____________ Peter Cogliano FF/ T.O. Belltown Fire Dept currently working with Dyncorp/LOGCAP IV Camp Leatherneck Afghanistan

Every participant had the opportunity to address the Task Force with their plans, and while 786 does have the right and responsibility to represent the employees of SFRD, it is the administration of that Dept that has the authority to develop and propose any plans in which they will be the major "shareholder". Any negotiations on how those plans would effect the "rank and file" union members should have been dealt with in negotiation with the SFRD administration prior to those plans being proposed. Niether the City nor the VFDs owes 786 anything in regards to the development of this new entity until such time as there are career employees to represent from it. What would be the attitude if the volunteers Chiefs were to demand a say in the next round of contact negotiations between the City and 786? For that matter what was the attitude regarding the previous merger plans and the installation of SFRD employees into the VFDs? 786 has NO employees working for the VFDs for whom they can negotiate regarding any future plans. If the "new" career personnel choose to become 786 members then and only then can 786 represent them. The current SFRD personnel, hence 786 members, in the volunteer houses are the sole responsibility of SFRD who assigned them at the request (which can be rescinded at any time) of the Springdale and Glenbrook VFDs.

I would take a position yes as is my right. And yes my family comes first just as it does for any other family provider and I don't apologize for that. As I said before the members of Local 786 chose a course of action or at least the leaders that pursued that course, that that decision may negatively affect those members is not my fault...it is theirs for allowing it to continue. In the end they will have the same right to apply and go through whatever process is determined to gain a position as I will, should they be laid off. No. Testing should be an open competitive exam in which current members in good standing of the VFDs get points for their service..a very common practice which I believe you said your department employs It may seem that way but that is not the case at all. I simply don't believe that SFRD is the best possible service. And let's get something straight I have never ever advocated "placing the ability of volunteers to be able to respond, when they are able or it is convienent for them, above the needs of the citizens of your city"...if indeed you have read my posts you will see that I call for 24/7 coverage utilizing both career and shift coverage by volunteers. That aside the climate is not condusive to unification right now due to a number of factors including the animosity created by the attempted forced "merger" of the VFDs into SFRD with NO regard for the law. That utter disregard by the way speaks volumes as to the true motives of the merger. Once this new entity becomes a reality, if in fact it does, I have every confidence that it will meet the needs of the community better than the seperate VFDs do now. Well the same could be said of the previous Mayor's methods in dealing with the VFDs. On top of that they have no one to negotiate with other than the City in regards to their jobs with SFRD, which has NO jurisdiction out of that district. It may not be fair but alas it is the way it is. What I find interesting is that some here find 786s omission offensive and having a "deeply negative impact" while omitting the VFDs from the previous negotiations seemed to be a perfectly fine method. How is that different and not also deeply negative? And how could any level of trust be possible when that was the tactic chosen? It seems to me that a huge double standard exists here that unfortunately for some no longer applies in Stamford. Well I waited til now to address this. The Mayor has already publically stated there will be No layoffs, so this furor is misplaced at best or simply scare tactics. You are of course entitled to think whatever you wish. Stay Safe Cogs _____________ Peter Cogliano FF/ T.O. Belltown Fire Dept currently working with Dyncorp/LOGCAP IV Camp Leatherneck Afghanistan

Why would I be anything other than honest? I have a family to support and I would much rather be getting paid to do what I love doing (and am fairly good at) at home as opposed to 7000 miles away and in a war zone. Be that as it may job or no job I will remain an active volunteer for as long as I am able or until I drop dead. The delay in unification stems from the fact that as the situation exists right now it is a good bet that SFRD personnel put into the VFDs will mean their demise. Cases in point being the much maligned Springdale and even more so Glenbrook. To that let me add that I believe this plan is the best right now because of that probable eventuality, but also because I do believe that volunteers can provide for the safety of the community and do so even better with a paid component supplementing them during the day when numbers are down. Let me also just make one small correction. I said that in the future we could be one happy family, but not until much of the animosity between the "sides" has diminished and quite frankly until the volunteers are accorded the respect most have earned so they can be treated as what they must be...a vital component in the system..not the bastard step children. Yes, but testing should be done for the SFVD exclusively not the entire city as it is a different department. Also any current active volunteers in good standing of that FD should recieve points for their prior service Agreed Different department and quite possibly different bargaining unit They will improve over time as each becomes accustomed to this "new" system. Beyond that, I for one hope and will work tirelessly to ensure that the volunteers can not only meet but exceed the challenges they will face thus hopefully improving relations as well as some misconceptions disappear. This may take years, but just as it took years for this mess to develop, so too may inter-departmental relations take years to improve off the fireground...that is dependent upon the personalities involved. I have never advocated anyone losing their job, in fact I went to great lengths to developp a plan that guaranteed everyone kept theirs albeit on a different schedule. I would not want to see lay offs but to be honest I would take a job to support my family even if it meant someone from SFRD lost theirs. See as offensive as this may be to some, I did not fail 786 nor did the VFDs. They chose a course of action that ended up here and now the consequences of that choice may negatively impact them, that is not my fault. For me it is because they failed to respond to all but 12 calls in a year. That is a failure of epic proportions and is inexcusable as far as I'm concerned. That failure is also one that many here felt may be a protend of the future if another plan had been adopted. Why should they be. They are the bargaining unit for the employees SFRD, nothing more. 786 has no rights or voice in what goes on outside of SFRD since they have no binding agreements with the legal AHJs of any of the other fire districts in Stamford at this point and therefore can only negotiate with SFRD. 786 gave up any rights to bargain outside of the SFRD district when they chose to absorb the paid personnel that formerly worked at the VFDs and that was a choice they freely made. The fact is this plan was agreed upon by the administrations the FDs in Stamford...they all sat up there during that press conference and agreed....and that is as it should be since they are the AHJs not 786. I do not feel singled out since I believe in defending my views if need be no matter how unpopular they may seem. I hope that I have answered constructively enough or at least have "enlightened" you a bit. Stay Safe Cogs _____________ Peter Cogliano FF/ T.O. Belltown Fire Dept currently working with Dyncorp/LOGCAP IV Camp Leatherneck Afghanistan

Very erudite and well thought out response thanks for posting it. While I can fully understand your views and even agree with them at times it has been my experience that dedicated volunteer firefighters handle themselves just as well as their career counterparts at the incidents I've been involved with. Now maybe this isn't always the case but for me it is and it is from this perspective that my views are formed. My goal if it were mine alone to pursue to fruition would be to create as professional a department as is possible by standardizing every operational aspect of the department for both the paid and volunteer personnel. Let's be clear here in that neither I nor anyone I know has ever called for a 100% volunteer fire department in Stamford, that is not realistic...but a combination of both paid and volunteer personnel working together as equals to provide exemplary fire protection is. Now believe it or not I'm not a fool, I know full well that there is and always will be differences between career and volunteer personnel, I have never said otherwise. But those differences can be drastically reduced through training and the instilling of an attitude of professionalism towards the duties involved in being a firefighter...and let me be clear I said reduced not eliminated. In that vein I do believe the Mayor's plan is the best one for Stamford at this time, but I also believe that to ensure that it is a success into the future some major changes will be required of Stamford's volunteers...first and foremost among them is the staffing of the firehouses with competent and qualified people 24/7. Now some these people will most assuredly be paid but to me the majority can and should be volunteer...and at the risk of starting a long debate the volunteer ranks should include the paid personnel also if they decide they want to volunteer on their off time. Yes Stay Safe Cogs _____________ Peter Cogliano FF/ T.O. Belltown Fire Dept currently working with Dyncorp/LOGCAP IV Camp Leatherneck Afghanistan

Rest in Peace Officer Perry

No, what I'm saying is that given the circumstances he made the best possible choice and I support it. In time maybe we can put in place the proper parameters on all sides to unify "once and for all" but until then two is better than six especially if both adhere to common standards and put in place the conditions that allow all to meet them. Just a couple of questions to those of you who refer to the Rural Metro experiment in Rye Brook. Do you advocate SFRD taking a similar stance vis a vis the SVFD, such as? "The Port Chester fire chief acknowledged that he was ordered by village officials not to respond to calls from Rye Brook" "problems turned into a crisis during the fire at the $1 million house on Rocking Horse Trail last December. Six full-time firefighters responded. Port Chester did not respond to calls for help" "Mayor Cresenzi said that a crowd gathered at the fire, and that its members seemed to include firefighters from neighboring communities who were willing to let the fire burn to prove a point" And if so who is it then that is putting the public in jeopardy? Stay Safe Cogs _____________ Peter Cogliano FF/ T.O. Belltown Fire Dept currently working with Dyncorp/LOGCAP IV Camp Leatherneck Afghanistan

Junior I don't have the answers to these questions, only conjecture at this point but I, like everyone else I'm sure, am wondering the same things. What I do know is that your assesment of the "merging" of the former VFD employees is my understanding of how it went down as well. I would assume that any new hires would be employees of the to be created tax district as opposed to the City and may or may not be affiliated with 786 or the IAFF. My hunch is that there will be a CBU exclusively for the SVFD employees and that they will deal directly with the tax district or commission or whatever entity oversees the "new" department. Stay Safe Cogs _____________ Peter Cogliano FF/ T.O. Belltown Fire Dept currently working with Dyncorp/LOGCAP IV Camp Leatherneck Afghanistan

Apparently you missed the second paragraph of my response so I'll reiterate it. "The simple truth is the only way that a truly integrated combination department can work is when all personnel meet the same standards regardless of affiliation for their positions...then there can be no discrepancy over who commands or controls what since all have met the same requirements for their positions" Such a scenario as the one I described above is possible for Stamford, in fact it is not only possible but working elsewhere and if I can influence matters in any way I will do my damnest to make it so. As far as experience goes there are some VFDs in CT that see more work and thus gain more experience than some career depts...the dept's in the Valley come to mind...so simply being a volunteer does not in and of itself preclude an officer from being a damn good one. Nor does being paid for 15 or 20 years but only going to one or two fires a year make you a good officer simply because you are paid. But those "exceptions" to the "rule" aside I fully agree that ALL requirements must be the same for ALL officers...and firefighters for that matter...period. I am not one who makes a distiction between career and volunteers based solely on their affiliation for I have met and worked with many great volunteer firefighters and ditto with a number of career lobs as well. People who take firefighting seriously and put the effort in to being the best they can be at it are simply firemen to me...whether we get paid to do it or not is irrelevant. Stay Safe Cogs _____________ Peter Cogliano FF/ T.O. Belltown Fire Dept currently working with Dyncorp/LOGCAP IV Camp Leatherneck Afghanistan

To be quite honest given the right parameters I would wholeheartedly support a Charter revision to create one unified department. But having one FD where volunteer Chiefs are subordinate to career Captains and volunteer officers oversee only volunteer personnel and are subordinate to career firefighters is not a viable option and that is what was proposed. As has so often been said by many people here "you cannot have two chains of command on the fireground" and that is what we would've got...two commands. I can say with complete candor that unity of command is a concept I fully agree with and as offensive as it may be to some, to me if that means creating two departments and two seperate fire districts to achieve it, then so be it. The simple truth is the only way that a truly integrated combination department can work is when all personnel meet the same standards regardless of affiliation for their positions...then there can be no discrepancy over who commands or controls what since all have met the same requirements for their positions. This among other things is what I proposed to the task force and it appears that this point at least, the standardization of requirements for all positions, will be a goal of this new entity and one I fully support. Stay Safe Cogs _____________ Peter Cogliano FF/ T.O. Belltown Fire Dept currently working with Dyncorp/LOGCAP IV Camp Leatherneck Afghanistan

Yes it does, but the time to chart the course of that change has come and gone it would appear. All "sides" had the opportunity to put forth their "plans" and from them the Mayor made his decision. It may not be a solution that some want, it may not even be the best one, but it is the vision for the future that has been laid out. Let me just clarify that it may seem to many to be a step backwards, but to me it is a large leap forward if for no other reason than it calls for the operational standardization of all the VFDs sans Glenbrook (at this time). Anyone who has known me for more than a short time can attest to the fact that I and a few others put this operational consolidation idea on the table over 25 years ago, only to be dismissed as lunatics. To me this is a step that is long overdue and one that may one day in the not too distant future allow for the total and equal integration of all of Stamford's fire dept's into one unified service. We've been around the block on this one more than a few times so I won't belabor the point with why I believe this to be a positive and necessary step. Truth be told daytime only career staffing is not even remotely possible without the commitment of the current and future volunteers of Stamford to night shifts to make it happen. That being said what this amount to is not so much a change in operations but rather a change in the culture of the volunteer fire service in Stamford. Now many people here (and elsewhere) have rightfully pointed out all the pitfalls as to why this is an impossibility, but they have refused to accept that this type of system does have a proven track record elsewhere and that that track record of success was built upon the very same foundations we have here. In our meetings with the Montgomery and PG County Chiefs (both paid and volunteer) on how their systems work we brought up all of the concerns and opinions against this idea...all of which existed there and all of which were addressed to create a workable integrated combination system...the cornerstone of which is volunteer staffing. That it can be done is not in question, if others will work towards it here is. My "job" as the major advocate of this approach is to continue to work towards making it a reality by utilizing facts and the experiences of others to broaden the horizons of people here. The goal....the hope...is that we can emulate the success of those workable systems without the trial and error they've already experienced. Stay Safe Cogs Peter Cogliano FF/ T.O. Belltown Fire Dept currently working with Dyncorp/LOGCAP IV Camp Leatherneck Afghanistan

All have brought up valid concerns/opinions which firmly support their point of view and add to the discussion. Glenn In reference to the above I presented an option which did just that (staffed each VFD house with SFRD personnel) to the task force, so I would and do support SFRD people staffing the firehouses so as to ensure no jobs are lost. But only under certain conditions, the major ones being daytime only career staffing and a unified command based on standardized training/testing which includes volunteer officers as equals, not subordinates. This option is well worn on these pages and almost universally derided here and elsewhere, but the fact is given the proper support it can and would work...just as it does elsewhere. But that is not the direction anyone seems to have wanted so now we have what we have and it is time to get down to the business of making it work. I have also noticed that in the defense of Mr. Keatley's comments and in the repeated derision of the Mayor's plan most here have conveniently left out that there is a not only a valid but a legal reason that things have taken the direction they have...it's called the City Charter, and as much as some want to ignore it, that document (as outdated as it is) has dictated much of what course the solution had to take. Stay Safe Cogs ____________ Peter Cogliano FF/ T.O. Belltown Fire Dept currently working with Dyncorp/LOGCAP IV Camp Leatherneck Afghanistan

Thank you Mayor Pavia!!

Interesting article but not at all suprising. That Mr. Keatley is upset because "his organization has been left out of the conversation from the beginning" is an erroneous statement being that he did address the Task Force on numerous occasions prior to the Mayor's decision and therefore was not "left out of the conversation". Not only that but he and others had absolutely no qualms about the VFDs being "left out" when our previous Mayor inflicted his "plan" on us all, starting this debacle. As far as him negotiating for the labor force, he has the right and duty to do so for his union which is SFRD, not those of this new entity as of yet. To speak on anything having to do with any new firefighters for the SVFD is to put the cart before the horse. Firstly because there is no labor force of the SVFD as of yet for him to speak for and secondly because when or if there is one they may not want to be affiliated with the Local 786 or the IAFF, nor do they have to be. It is also rather interetsting to hear Chief Passero voice his concerns now, after a plan has emerged instead of during the task force meetings when he had ample opportunity to do so. For that to have happened though he would have had to attend more than one meeting. His lack of input is his own and one he should not be lamenting now, he had his chance to speak. So come what may it is his responsibility for what happens to Glenbrook. There is of course another factor that seems to be overlooked here by many detractors and that is the fact that by the City Charter each of the VFDs is an independent entity that can do what is in their own best interest. Now many might not like or may even scoff at that fact but it is a fact just the same, and one that Mayor Pavia and the rest of us have to contend with and accept, like it or not. Lastly I am not so sure that we are talking about a tax increase, but rather a redistribution of taxes. By this I mean it is quite possible that the cost of fire protection in the SVFD district will be paid directly to the district as it is in other cities and towns that have a fire tax district, but that cost will be deducted from the overall property taxes paid to the City. In other words if I pay $5500 a year in property taxes now to the City of Stamford which then distributes the money between services, in the future I will pay the City $5200 and the SVFD $300 per year. My overall taxes will be the same, only it's distribution will be different. This how the fire tax had been envisioned by some of us when we first brought it up, although it may be that this will change as circumstances do. Take care and Stay Safe Cogs ____________ Peter Cogliano FF/ T.O. Belltown Fire Dept currently working with Dyncorp/LOGCAP IV Camp Leatherneck Afghanistan

Hmmm this all sounds vaguely familiar to me, like I've seen alot of this somewhere before. combining/unifiying districts career/volunteer staffing one career Chief to oversee the combination department seperate taxes to pay for it all With what limited info there is presently available I can say that by and large I support the Mayor's proposal (as much of it is what I've been saying all along). There is of course is one glaring problem that I see looming and that is the fate of any City FFs currently working "up North" that may be pulled from Springdale and TOR. One possible option might be to augment the Truck and Rescue Companies of SFRD with that personnel so as to increase their overall effectiveness and more importantly to help ensure that no one loses their job Just one more thing: Before some of you go off calling for Mayor Pavia's head remember that this whole affair was started by an ill concieved "plan" hatched during the Malloy Administration. Had the time and effort been put into finding a workable solution then it may very well be that another far more cohesive plan between SFRD and the VFDs may have emerged. Unfortunately events followed a different path and much has been said and done that has created an atmosphere where true cooperation between the "sides" is now virtually impossible. Career or volunteer, union or not, if your unhappy with the Mayor's proposal keep the blame where it belongs...squarely in Malloy's lap. Pavia simply made lemonade out of the lemons he was handed. Cogs ____________ Peter Cogliano FF Dyncorp/LOGCAP IV Camp Leatherneck Afghanistan