FFPCogs

B, How nice of you to chime in, I was wondering where you were. Glad you're here to resume our ongoing tete a tete. Well enough of the pleasantries time to address your queries as best I can. No I would not say that at all. If various incentives were to be implemented they would have to be distributed equally through an across the board program to avoid any problems in the future. As for the leaderships of the other VFDs I have no comments other than to say we as a department and me personally have always enjoyed a good working relationship with all them and expect that this would continue regardless of whether or not incentives come into play. As it stands today any internal issues within the other VFDs are there's and there's alone. If the proposed consolidation does in fact take place only then might I or anyone else have input on how best to resolve any of them. And this I have maintained all along. I urge the adoption of only those programs that have proven successful elsewhere inasmuch as that proof exists. Currently roughly about 100 on paper. One of the main premises of the incentives propsed is to increase those numbers by using them to offset a primary reason people are unable to volunteer...the cost of living in Stamford. A duty stipend may help achieve that as it has elsewhere in the tri State area. If in fact we are stagnant at 100 then the program will need to be revisited and adjusted to balance the cost vs performance requirements. In the end as ar as I am concerned we are bound by two mitigating factors, FSLA and the requirement to maintain adequate manpower (meaning at least 3 [preferably 4] qualified FFs in every VFD house 24/7/365) using career, volunteer or a combination of both to meet the needs of the community with as little additional expense as possible. Simply put and as it has been proposed here before...My belief is that yes one must be interior qualified to participate in a duty stipend or paid on call incentives program. Any other component of a program would be based on the neeeds of the department and or community and would need to be negotiated and based in realistic, practical and attainable parameters to address those needs. Insurance would be a part of the operating expenses of the department as they currently are and always have been. I must admit that I do not have that information available in front of me, nor can I easily aquire it at present due to the constraints of my employment. Thank you for pointing it out. Equipment is also an operating expense and while yes it would increase the overall budget I'm quite certain that cost would be less than the benefits portion of the compensation packages of the hypothetical 16 new career personnel discussed earlier. Also serviceable gear can be handed down if necessary as a cost saving measure which is a common practice in many departments. No as I said accross the board based on the program requirements. I'm afraid this is a non sequiter although I do get your point. If we are going to look at FSLA in the same light as Anhydrous Ammonia and the governmemt view as opposed to reality then all career personnel should be free to volunteer as FFs of they so choose. And yes while we must be ever mindful of the law the fact is like it or not all our laws are written by politicians. As written and reinforced by recent federal DOL decisions FSLA allows for a degree of compensation, taxable compensation by the way, for our nations volunteers, to ignore that law is to me irresponsible if it's terms have the potential to help serve the communty. And here again any incentives should require performance standards in order to recieve them designed and enforced to reduce if not eliminate these occurances. Fair enough. Let me be clear in that I am not advocating throwing money or tax abatements or any other kind of incentive into the wind and hoping for the desired result. Quite to the contrary I stand firmly and adamantly on the belief that any incentives must initially show a return in the the form of an increased level of service provided to the community and thereafter in the maintainance of that higher standard as determined by independent oversight. Stay Safe Cogs

My understanding is that if tax funds will be used to support the program(s) than yes they do either directly or through the established representative bodies of the municipality/AHJ. For department funds raised by means other than public taxation yes they can do with those funds as they see fit in keeping with whatever Federal, State, Local or District laws, ordinances or regulations, if any, that may apply to those funds. Nothing Since there are no programs in place there is no data to support their effectiveness or lack thereof in Stamford. Some believe incentives don't work, some believe they do. To be fair research can be interpreted predjudicially either way. Only through their establishment and continued and constant scrutiny can this question be answered for Stamford. Stay Safe Cogs

With all due respect I beg to differ. The cost outline can be found with a little effort. If it is something that really interests you then by all means do the research.. How so, by removing both an Engine Company and a Truck Company from areas of downtown? That seems to me like a reduction in service for those who live and work there, not to mention pay taxes based on those assets being stationed at their current locations. Will the redistribution of those assets be reflected in a tax reduction for those affected as well as a tax increase for those aquiring those assets? If so are the taxpayers aware of such? If not, well then somebody's getting screwed. And let's not forget that under the "Brown plan" the residents of Belltown will get no paid presence in their current district yet will end up paying for it. How are they getting more for their dollar? And while we're at it, what about volunteer funding, which is an important consideration in these trying economic times, since both plans will admittedly rely on volunteers to provide adequate resources? No matter how you slice it you just can't squeeze more out of this lemon. Stay Safe Cogs

Just a thought........ If SFRD will be able to handle the whole City as envisioned under the "Brown Plan" with no additions does that mean that it is currently overstaffed/equipped or will it come to pass that parts of the City will be understaffed/equiped if it is implemented and ultimately require additional career resources to compensate? Seems to me (and it turns out alot of taxpaying voters and their Reps) that if your going to take on the additional responsibilites of the "Brown plan" with the current SFRD resources there must be either too many and too much on hand now or those resources will become stretched beyond the breaking point trying to provide adequate coverage. My question is.....so which is it? Cogs

While I clearly see and understand your point, as so often happens in the course of our discussions, I think we will have to respectfully agree to disagree since it is evident niether of us will change the view of the other. I have to say that IMO if, and only if, the end result is the fire protection the community deserves in this case they are one in the same. Cogs

And maybe this will clear it up for you. What drives me (and many others) to volunteer is a personal choice to serve and I (we) neither want nor expect anything in return for that service. But that is me (or us). The simple truth is that choice is not one that is made as commonly today as it was in years past. Quite frankly in the world today most people want (or need) to get something to give something...right or wrong that is simply how it is. Also VFDs have traditionally been social organizations as well as service ones wherein members joined not only to help the community but by extension to help each other. In close knit organizations such as VFDs you tend to find members using each others services as a matter of course due to their departmental affiliation and commaraderie. It is no different than a career FF calling on a fellow career FF who, as a side job, mows lawns or builds decks ect. Unfortunately due to a variety of socialogical and financial reasons much of that draw has disappeared in the volunteer service. So we are left with a choice. We can either put our heads in the sand and expect or even demand people volunteer for reasons that in general no longer exist, or we can accept that the world has changed and develop the means to address those changes. IMO incentives are a means to address those changes. As for when one is no longer a volunteer...well as I see it, it is when the law says so. It is a well known fact that volunteers, compensated or not, cost far less than career personnel and always will, but cost alone without performance is not the answer. The demands on volunteers are more now than they've ever been, rising call volume, more stringent training standards, performance standards ect. Fact is all of these are perfectly legitimate expectations for the public to have of their service, but to achieve them will always bear a cost. The big picture is IMO if volunteers disappear from Stamford the costs to the taxpayers will rise considerably to provide adequate fire protecion Citywide in that same 15, 20 or 30 years. So again it is the taxpayers who are left with a choice which is rightly there's to make. I believe, based on research and personal experience, that incentives, as a component of the outline I've repeatedly explained in this thread, will offer them the most cost effective fire service for their money long into the future....bar none. Many, including many voters believe the same about the IAFF. I suppose that for many voters that same question could be asked of the IAFF as well, hence the continued existence of Stamford's VFDs. . What works in Belltown may not be what works elsewhere and no amount of wishing thinking by any of us will make it so. We must look at what will offer the best hope of maintaining and in fact expanding Stamford's volunteer sector as a whole, not only now but in the long term. And this applies even if ultimately it is the "Brown plan" that is chosen since by it's own provisions it will rely on volunteers as well. What has been the traditional motivations for volunteering it seems no longer exist so we must look to alternatives to address this reality and achieve the goal of cooperatively serving the community. Stay Safe Cogs

Fair enough, but one thing residents almost universally do care about is what any service will cost them. Incentives implemented as I have described throughout this thread will offer them the most for THEIR money....and by the way it's a BWT that shows up in Belltown.... Cogs

Continue down the path Belltown has? That would be an ideal situation, but unfortunately since that hasn't happened yet there is very little chance new members will simply flock to this new VFD because Belltown is a part of it. Belltown's recruitment has always been by word of mouth due to our reputation, which it seems is not shared by the other VFDs. This is not a slight against them but simply the situation borne out by the facts. As been pointed out here repeatedly by my esteemed career colleagues such as yourself, times have changed and people simply don't have the time or inclination to volunteer anymore for it's own sake. To an extent that is true but there are many departments and communities that have successfully addressed this situation through the implementation of incentives programs. Stamford IMO would be an ideal candidiate for some of them and I've never said otherwise, ever. I may be many things but a liar is not one of them. I stand firmly behind my convictions and a review of this thread will clearly demonstrate that. Now when it comes to stipends, tax breaks or other recruitment and retention incentives the cold hard truth is they offer the taxpayer the most for their buck when used in conjunction with staffing, training and other performance initiatives. The fact is incentives for the whole department would cost less than the cost of one new career Engine Company. In other words more than 200 volunteers for less than the cost of 16 career personnel...which is best for the taxpayer? Maybe but giving up is not an option. Our collective future depends on our collective efforts...it is as simple as that. Stay Safe Cogs

So you do not see professionalism as being an integral part of being professsional? Does simply recieving a paycheck make one a professional? Well according to our friend Webster yes it does, and there in lies the rub. The dictionary says one thing when the reality is something quite different. It appears IMO that it is many career FFs that are hung up on the semanitics and the liberal, although perfectly legal and therefore appropriate, use of the term volunteer. Cogs

As expected on this point we respectfully disagree. Like most things none oft this is as cut and dry as it may seem. Are there volunteers who are not '"volunteers" in the strictest sense of the word, yes absolutely there are, but as we all know only too well, not every career FF is a professional by any stretch of the imagination either. What it comes down to is what the citizens are willing to pay for no matter what terms or "misleading" nomenclature is used to describe the members of the particular fire department(s) that serve them. In respect to Stamford, there are legal precedents that allow for what some might consider "paid" volunteers but ultimately it will be up to the community to decide if those "volunteers" are what they want and that is as it should be since they will foot the bill. See it is possible to agree... ... from there anything is possible. I'll say it again, it is time to work harder on working together. Stay Safe Cogs BTW thanks Joe for explaining the geographic circumstances which make Stamford somewhat different from CTs other larger cities..

Personally I don't give a rats a** what term is used to desribe FFs who willing choose to serve their community in addition to holding down other employment as their primary source of income. And as far as misleading the public goes, in everuy case I'm aware of it is open and common knowledge that the "volunteers" serving the community recieve "pay" by the citizens. To the best of my knowledge no community has raised an objection to the use of the term volunteer nor have they complained about being misled in any way, shape or form. I suppose the consternation expressed here by some over the use of the term volunteer is in the same league as that espoused by volunteers who bristle at the use of the term "professional" to descirbe all career FFs. In the end it is service to the community that matters and all who underatke to provide that service, be they career, or volunteer, professional or hobbyist, share the same goal to protect and serve the community. It is truly a shame that so much interferes with that basic fact and everyone suffers for it. Stay Safe Cogs

C, You've hit the nail right on the head...only ONE department has managed to do this. And while I am extremely proud and confident of my FD, one is not enough for the whole city. I have done this for 32 years and niether asked for nor recieved anything for it.....nor am I looking for anything now. But like so many have said here over and over again times have changed and to maintain an adequate cadre of volunteers, regardless of which plan is ultimately chosen, will require new methods. There is a much larger picture here than SFRD or BFD alone and until we recognize that, we will continue to get lost in the irellevant and counter productive bickering and intransigence that has led us to where we are and prevented a resolution. Like I stated earlier that is something for which we ALL share the blame. Time to work harder at working together!!! Ok time again to set off to work in this mud encrusted craphole. Stay Safe Cogs

Spade a spade? Ok by Webster's definition people recieving a stipend would no longer be strictly volunteer, but according to Federal labor Law (FLSA) they would be so long as that stipend(s) is less than 20% of the gross pay of a career firefighter or Officer ect. Now while this may offend the sensibilities of some, in the end it's not those sensibilities or even Websters that matters but the Law. I prefer the term retained as it better describes the status of members recieving stipends, but it's really nothing more than semantics. What term is used to describe a members status is irrelevent, call them whatever you want. My only concern is providing enough qualified firefighters at a reasonabe cost to protect the City, I believe "retained" personnel in concert with the existing career force can accomplish that goal. Funny some of us have been saying that all along, but have met feirce resistance from both sides of the fence. Why? Because niether is willing to compromise for the common good. Egos, agendas and politics at their finest. No it isn't but accepting change has to be a two way street that encompasses the needs of both "sides". Change should seek to maximize the similarities and minimize the differences between the career and volunteer sectors. It should seek to utilize the resources availabe to build a professional, efficient and effective fire dept to best serve our community. The continued useless arguments over semantics and the unwillingness of most to even entertain an approach other than their own just shows that goal to be the furthest thing from most of the players minds. Like I said egos, agendas and politics at their finest. Valuable time, experience, energy and the desire to serve has been and continues to be wasted with the public coming out as the biggest losers...and that is something every FF in Stamford (yes including me) shares the blame for. Cogs

Well at least we can all agree that the cost of additional career firefighters, regardless of who they work for, will apparently be astronomical. Maybe it's high time some of that money gets invested into the volunteer sector in the form of proven incentives such as per call and duty stipends since both plans currently on the table will require more and more career personnel in the very near future to effectively cover the City. And that, as those wonderful SFL ads on the radio so eloquently point out, is something the public neither wants or needs. Utilize the resources available more effectively and everybody wins, don't and we all lose. Stay Safe and Happy Holidays from now rain soaked Kandahar Afghanistan Cogs

RIP Lt.

Well what can you say..stupid is as stupid does. Hopefully these clowns face some harsh diciplinary action and a review of safety protocols takes place at the FD. That said I have to be honest I got a good laugh out of that guy busting his a** in that short fall.... :lol: If nothing else this should serve to teach him to learn how to use his equipment before trying to use it . Stay safe Cogs

I would definitely agree with everyone else in that the most important thing is planning. "Measure twice cut once" is the best advice. But I must add my own personal two cents here. The trend with each successive rig purchase for alot of FDs seems to be bigger is better. If we had a 1000gpm Engine now we need 1250, if we carried 500 gallons of water now we need 750 and so on. Now some expansion is practical and necessary, but some isn't either. I'm a firm believer in the philosophy "if it ain't broke don't fix it" and I think that adage applies here in many instances. And another thing more and more we see FDs trying to do it all with one rig..and as I've said many times before, it has been my experience that trying to fit everything into one rig usually means you end up with a rig that does none of them well. Yes money is tight, but for most of us there are resources relatively close at hand in the form of mutual aid that can offset alot of the supposed deficiencies a one rig wonder is supposed to solve...and more often than not doesn't as we expected. Remember too that salesman are just that... salesmen...they're looking to make the most off anything they sell you and many times will tell you whatever you want to hear to get it. And frankly it's not their responsibility to make sure a rig fits in YOUR firehouse...it's yours. Buying what's needed and not always what's wanted can go a long way in solving these occurences and bigger is NOT always better...it's just bigger!! Stay Safe Cogs

Time for another installment of "Life in Afghanistan". In this episode we'll deal with what happens when it rains. For anyone whose ever lived in the desert the phenomena of the flash flood is something you are all too aware of. Well here in Kandahar we are as prone to them as anywhere else like say Nevada or Arizona ect, which brings me to the other night. Wednesday was like most days here except that for the first time this year we had a significant amount of rain...well significant by the standards here anyway. Morning had some drizzle off and on which lasted a few hours with the sun popping it's head out for about hour here and there. About 1 pm it started to downpour. Now out here in November that means just what we would call a steady rain back home. This lasted a few hours with varying degrees of rainfall throughout, but never heavier than slow speed on the wipers on the rig. As this rain came to an end it was just about 6pm which for us at the South Station is dinner time. So we hop on the rig for the short drive to the DFAC with me fully expecting to indulge in some nice baked fish and potatoes, with a side salad of course. Alas, like so many crews around the world at dinnertime, enroute we get banged out for an AFA , this time in the Deep South portion of the camp. As we begin making our way south we notice that there are a series of large puddles in the roadway, which out here is not at all unusual when it rains. What was unusual though was that as we proceeded down the road the puddles turned into a flowing river of muddy water about a 6 inches deep. I thought this flowing water was coming from the wash rack assuming a pipe or water bladder had burst, except it didn't slow down...in fact it began to rage and increase in depth by about 1 or 2 inches per minute. As we approached a six spoked roundabout (we call it Malfunction Junction) to make the swing south we began to see alot of vehicles becoming stranded and the road was now completely submerged ahead of us. A quick look out the cab and jumpseat doors (I was backstepping it) and we figured we'd be alright as the water wasn't even near mid tire yet. So we make the left to head down to Deep South and the waiting AFA. As we came around the roundabout to bear left the road before us was becoming clogged on the left side....this because people were trying to go around all the stuck vehicles closer to the edge on that side of the road. Although the street is technically only two lane there is generally ample room to get by and this we started to do. We made it past 6 or 7 cars and pickups when up ahead we saw a large pile of debris floating right at us down the middle of the road. My driver gently turned the wheel to the right in an effort to go around it which he had plenty of clearence to do.....or so we thought. You see as I said the road was submerged under a maybe a foot of water and while not a problem to usually negotiate safely, today was turning out to be anything but usual. Did I meantion that along the sides of the majority of roads here there are drainage ditches about 4 feet deep. Well there are and there were on this road south. So as we edged right to avoid the debris we ended up very close to the edge of the road and the drainage ditch which because of the flooding was concealed under water. We proceeded maybe 15 feet and then slowly, ever so slowly the rig beagn to list right....yep we had gone too close to the edge and the road gave way and into the ditch we went. See............. The rig took on a pretty good list but thankfully no one got hurt. It was rather comical to see us all trying to get out of the rig on such an angle, especally the Officer who had to climb over the dog house to get out the driver's door. I managed to slip down inside the cab a couple of times myself while trying to retrieve some equiment and personal items....laughing the whole time I might add since it really was a comical scene. So now here we are stranded in an ever increasing flood with our rig firmly ensconced in this ditch. The pics above are from about 3 minutes in and from there it only gets better. We radioed in and told dispatch of our dilema and ensured that the other engine took in the call (AFAs here get a single engine response). That done we drained our tank to lighten the rig and then had to just wait to get towed out. So while we waited the water began to rise..and rise...and rise and flow faster and faster and faster. MPs had by now blocked the road the way we had come, but some thought they could make it through only to end up off the road as well. I tried, using my usual colorful language, to turn people back, but they wouldn't listen. This comedy of errors only adding to our amusement at this point. Finally about a half hour later a wrecker showed up in what was now 3 feet of water, only to determine that he couldn't get the rig out...it was too wet...well Duh!!! Now we had a choice, stay with the rig and do nothing except get soaked or walk back towards the station and get soaked. We choose the latter since no one was going to be able to get down there to pick us up anyway. Off we went wading through thigh high to waist high water. Progress was slow and with the water deeping we began to think that maybe we'd made the wrong choice and better head back the 1/2 mile to the knee high water back by the rig instead. Then like a shining beacon they appeared...lights...headlights. Much to our delight an MRAP (mine resistant ambush protected vehicle) was heading our way. As we approached this armored beauty the crew inside asked us if we wanted a lift...and as you can well imagine we readily accepted. Now this was a ride. High up out of the water and virtually unstoppable. We rode on the hood and roof directing the driver whse vision was limited by us and the humidity. Around we went to our station only to find it submerged and uninhabitable as well. Generously our new Army friends offered us a lift to our accomadation block which for all we knew was also swimming. Enroute we pulled out a few cars and trucks, another MRAP and picked up a few more stranded souls. After about 2 1/2 hours and a few near misses with wayward empty connexes we made it back to our block which mercifully was just outside the flood zone. After accepting a few packs of ciggs for their trouble our Saviors were on there way...off to rescue others still out there stranded. A quick shower helped to wash off the contaminated water..(lots of septic tanks and mechanical shops in the path of the flood waters)..and fatigue. After that there was one final ignominy...dinner. See, we had missed all the DFACs serving hours save one called Luxembourg. Now while they do there best, Lux is generally regarded as the worst of the worst DFACs here and in the true spirit of living up to it's reputation it did not disappoint on that front. The Turkey ala King I ate..if 3 bites constitues eating... had neither turkey in it nor was it fit for even the king of the damned..it was in a word appalling ...and the perfect end to the perfect evening. Fast forward to yesterday. Engine 3 lies in the KBR workshop "drying out". We did go to pick it up yesterday evening only to find that it won't shift out of first gear...so back to the shop it went for a little more "work". Worse still...South Station is no more...my home that I had looked so forward to returning to after spending the better part of my first 3 months at the main station is condemned, a good 2 inches of fetid excrement and waste oil infested mud covering everything. Yes my sanctuary away from the politcs and BS of the main station is gone...along with a bit of the fun of being here. I'm sure some of you who prefer the smaller stations to the environments at HQs can relate. So now we wait..it is possible that as I sit in my room on my day off Engine 3 is back on the road, I'll find out tomorrow. To all the safety nazis out there, my driver did an excellent job under the circumstances as did the rest of the crew. In the end though we did learn one valuable lesson...stay to the middle of the road!!! Hope all is well back home Stay Safe and thanks for all that you do protecting the homefront Cogs

Willy, Mine and my family's most sincere condolences on your loss. May your wife rest in peace and your memories of your life together never fade. Our hearts and prayers go out to you and your family. Cogs

I may seem to be anti-union or anti- career but that is simply not the case. I am pro-volunteer and proud of that fact but I do not and will not support any plans that eliminates the jobs of my career colleagues, but by the same token I will not support any plan the relegates volunteers to a secondary status or role either simply because they are volunteers. Both sides carry with them the predjudices built up over years of animosity and no amount of goodwill will completely eliminate that. I honestly believe that while by no means neutral I have tried earnestly to see the situation from both sides and I think I've done a fair job at it while maintaining my core beliefs. Others may disagree and by all means that is there right. In the end I sincerely hope a new approach in which both sides work together in the true spirit of cooperation takes root. I am fully aware that this may be nothing more than a pipe dream, but it is one I will continue to espouse and work for. Whether or not others will follow suit remains to be seen From our discussions here it is clear to me that you have built a solid reputation and one that is well earned. I respect that and the effort it took to build that standing, so please understand that any disageements we may have are in no way meant to tarnish or diminish that respect. I hope I do not come across as disrespectful to you in any way, if I have you have my apologies. It is also clear to me that you have a view of volunteers based at least in part by your experiences with them. Well all I can say is that I would never tolerate such treatment by either "side" in a combination house. I am truly sorry that you have taken ill due to your years of service, and would like to take this opportunity to thank you for those years and what you have given to the fire service and all it's members, career and voluteer alike. But I will take exception to one point you have made. I do not believe that you "don't protect the homefront anymore", in fact I think nothing could be farther from the truth. You may not be backstepping it anymore, but your knowledege, experience and yes even the opinons that you share here serve to help the next generation become better firemen and do the job well...and that IS without doubt, helping to protect the homefront. Thank you for that. Please do not take my comments the wrong way, you have not sidetracked this thread. You and all are free to comment here any way you choose. I simply decided that I will not debate here because for me this particular thread is not about being right or wrong...(a first LOL),... it is about my experiences here and how they have and do influence my views. If anyone has contrary views and wants to express them they are free to do so. If it comes down to it and I feel something posted here deserves a contrary response I will definitely give one, but by and large I think I will just relate what goes on and my views on that. Again thank you for your service to the Country and with your department and for the sacrifices you have made. Disagreements or not I do appreciate and respect them. Stay safe and yes thanks for all you do (and have done) on the homefront Cogs

Well now the fact is the point I was making is that mistakes have been made by all involved, it was you who stated that you "come down squarely on the side of the Brothers of SFRD". As for my neutrality, well quite frankly I never professed to be neutral. Just as you feel strongly that " Any plan that could possibly put SFRD firefighters' jobs on the line, obviously abhors me", I feel just as strongly that any plan that in effect eliminates volunteers, abhors me. I also feel strongly that SFRD would be hard pressed to effectively cover the entire City with the resources presently at it's disposal and that in reality neither current plan is sufficent, therefore an alternate plan is necessary. To these points I will only say that everyone of us is entitled to our own opinions. I have made mine pretty clear as have you, and as Americans that is our right. I respect your views and more importantly your right to them, but I know that I will not be changing mine any time soon, nor will I argue them here. Fact is my continued presence in this cesspool of a country only solidifies my beliefs and reinforces my commitment to serve those who serve our nation. For now I will go back to relating my take on life here in Afghanistan and my personal views and experiences of that life. You or anyone is of course entitled to comment on any part at any time, but I think I will follow the advice of some very wise men and leave the debates about politics and religion for another thread. Stay safe and thanks for protecting the homefront Cogs

I'll do my best to answer your questions with the understanding that the views expressed are mine and mine alone On this subject I must say that it is unfortunate if your views in regards to my relating my experiences here have been skewed due to my fervent beliefs regarding my hometown situation, they are in fact unrelated. Stamford is in turmoil yes, and in part that turmoil is due to bad decisions made on the part of all the players invloved incuding your union brothers of L-786. Let me be as clear as I can about something, I do not now nor have I never advocated for or supported the loss of anyone's job from SFRD....period. In fact I will say once agian that the option put forth by a group of us did address the job situation and guarantees no layoffs and promotions as well as two new hires and all that within the confines of no increase in spending. But enough about Stamford. Yes I believe this is our Nation's the longest war. As for when do we leave, well I say we leave when the threat to our Nation is eradicated. To that end I think that we will need to have a military presence in this part of the world for the foreseeable future. We have made our Country safer by rooting out and eliminating those who seek to do us grievous harm where the are. The blood spilled on these foreign shores has not been in vain because I subscribe to what I know is a general feeling among our troops here who often express it with this sentiment: "we would rather be doing this here than at home". And I believe that if we desert these operations here we will face a dramatic increase in terrorist activities and violence which will require a military solution at home. America's strength since the early 20th century has been our ability to keep the fight off our shores, failure to meet violence with violence here will only encourage our enemies to attack us at home. And quite frankly as I see it they use what resources they have fighting us here, not using them to get at everyone back home. 1)Yes I believe the Taliban can be eliminated, but not by military action alone. Life must get better for the people here to lessen the draw of groups like the Taliban. But the Tailban is just a symptom of a much larger problem facing the World.....radical miltant Islam 2) I think the Karzai government is a rotted bloated corrupt corpse in need of burial 3) I do not have first hand knowledge of corruption, but the signs are pretty evident all around us 4) Drugs are a major source of income here, not only for our enemies but for the regular Joe ( or should I say Akmed) as well. The trade although illicit and despicable is how many people simply feed their families here. And in what I'm sure will cause consternation to some, I believe that in the end it is not the drug growers or even pushers who are to blame alone, after all for them it is a business, but more so the users. There has to be a demand for the product otherwise it would not be profitable to engage in the drug trade in the first place. Drug trafficking as a way of life needs to be eradicated here, but there must be something to replace it if we are to gain the support or at least acceptance of the people here. It will be next to impossible to convince people to stop engaging in drug trafficking if they have no other way to feed temselves. This war could end in a relatively short time if we approached it as a war. The restraints placed on our forces are hampering their ability to win a war and are in fact prolonging it. I do not advocate killing innocent people, but I do advocate winning our wars by whatever means necessary. If villagers are not with us they are against us and as far as I'm concerned they are the enemy and should be treated as such. The end game here is the destruction of the Taliban and their supporters as well as a stabilzed country that wll no longer harbor terrorists nor aid them in their activities. Here is the problem with this option. Pakistan is a soveriegn nation and a supposed ally, attacks on their territory will only widen the conflict and feed the insurgency. Also wars are not won by long distance engagements. We must have troops on the ground and the infastructure to support them and help move this country forward to secure the gains we make..and we are making them albeit very slowly. The whole issue of this region is containing and eliminating radical Islamic militants. This is happening here in Afghanistan, but it is Pakistan that is the breeding ground for the majority of this scourge. Until we face that demon we will be holding back the flood at best, but holding back that flood is a necessity or it will only get worse. When the time is right we will have to deal with radicalism in Pakistan if thye do not do so themselves, but for now we must work on eliminating it here first. Yes we do face a myriad of problems back home, but failure to address the enemies outside will only end up leaving us more vulnerable at home. The troubles back home are severe and it will take sacrifices on the part of every American to get us moving out of the morass we are in at home. Maybe some type of new "New Deal" is in order to help jump start that process, but we can't just leave here now no matter the burden. The consequences of that would be dire and such a move would end up creating a worse problem in the end as our departure would signal to our enemies that all they have to do is wait us out. We will have a chance in a year to change direction of things back home and hopefully this time we will make the right choice. Which is why I didn't vote for him Well I think I've covered this, but I will reiterate that as far as I'm concerned and in a nutshell our involvement here and throughout the Middle East is necessary to act as a bulwark against the spread of radical Islamic militancy. We as a nation and as Americans are a target in this world and to me that means that we must be ever vigilant and ever ready to use force to protect ourselves. I do not take the shedding of the blood of so many young and honorable Americans lightly, but I do believe that like their forefathers their spilled blood has made us safer in this world. For that they have my most hearfelt and eternal gratitude Stay Safe and thanks for all you do on the homefront Cogs

You're welcome Seth, and thank you for the forum to share my experiences. I will continue to post installments as I can and when there is something of value to tell without repeating myself too much. Stay Safe Cogs

Well all I can say about the article is it's about time the Ragvocate gave credit where credit is due. On a personal note: I am extremely proud to be a member of the Belltown Fire Department and to have had the honor of serving as a Captain this past year. These guys are second to none and I want to thank all my fellow members for the sacrifices they make to serve our community. Through their efforts we have maintained the respect and support of the people of Belltown who know they can always rely on us just as they always have. Great job guys!!!! Belltown Fire Dept. "A t W" since 1928 and still going strong!!! Cogs 2nd Captain Belltown Fire Dept

This is true, there has to be enough that actually show up to make a difference, hence the staffing initiative. I do not advocate a come as you want response at all, but rather each trained and qualified member woud have an assigned duty tour to cover the hours required. One way to help achieve that is to use one of your favorite methods, incentive programs. There are a number of them that we believe can work while maintaining the goal of no increase in expenditures. Well that's not exactly true. BFD has at least a 4 man crew in house every night 6p - 7a and weekends, generally though that number is 8 or more so that's 2 rigs on the road at least, and that's just from the in house personnel. Other VFDs have also had some success with nightime and weekend staffing I've been told, but not on as regular a basis as BFD. So the groundwork is there, but this must be addressed and formalized to ensure 100% coverage. I firmly believe that by requiring duty tours to ensure the necessary coverage the stations can be staffed by volunteers nights and if necessary weekend days as well as nights. Weekdays however remain a problem to a varying degree dependent on department and this is why I advocate paid staffing days only across the board during these hours. This paid staff can be SFRD, but if need be it can be SVFD or housemen for that matter if there is no impetus to compromise by SFRD. Cogs