gamewell45

There are idiots born every minute.

I think its next to impossible to accomplish. First off in most cities its not so much getting around in your pov, rather its amount of alarms that would for many people be too much to handle; secondly, you have union contracts to contend with that in many cases are not volunteer-friendly for obvious reasons; thirdly there would undoubtedly be some negative reaction by some of the paid firefighters who'd view volunteers as a threat to there livelihood and most likely do everything they could legally to make life as uncomfortable for the volunteers as they could. Fourth, they would most likely require training along the same lines as paid firefigthers are required to have in order to do interior work and for many volunteers, who already hold down full time jobs, the training requirements would be overwhelming for many of them. While start up costs might be minimal since your not paying salaries, the major issue would be recruiting volunteers from the city to become involved in the volunteer fire service. The only way i could ever see the usage of volunteers in a city-type setting would be for them to have there own house/truck for starters (that would help to partially eliminate any potential animosity between paid/volunteer), allow for bunk-ins for those who desire at the house, much like the system in place in states like Pa and Maryland. Depending on the training they decide to recieve would determine there status (interior, exterior, etc), work language into the collective bargaining agreement with fire labor unions allowing volunteers on the fire scene and spelling out what there duties can consist of and mount an extensive campaign to recruit volunteers. It would be a long and arduous task to make happen with a successful conclusion and there's no guarantees; its more of like a wish list. Unless the economy really tanks big time, I seriously doubt you'd ever see a city attempt something radical like this. Just my .02

Actually if you follow labor history, unions came in years later, after employees became upset with low wages, lack of benefits and job security. The unions don't guarantee services, as the municipalities control the level of service you get, but rather job security, which is one of their primary functions as a labor organization.

You have a good point, but historically people don't normally sign up to volunteer to plow streets, pick-up trash or clean schools, however there is a long history of citizens volunteering to fight fires as it's an immediate life/property hazard. Afterall--as I'm sure you'll agree--the fire service was initially founded by volunteers!

Someone should remind the city that slavery was abolished in 1865!

The fact of the matter is if the city of Poughkeepsie wants volunteer firefighters, you'll have them irrespective of what the fire department wants. The only caveat is that the city would have to honor the exisiting labor agreement; and if that agreement says that there can be no volunteers utilized to replace paid members of the department or if they have any exclusitivity clauses, then it makes no sense to form a volunteer squad. You could train them, equip them, insure them, give them all the physicals you want, but all they'd be able to do is just stand there and cheer on the paid staff as they work the fire. I don't think its out of the realm of possibility, if the economy continues its downward slide as it has been doing recently, you could see fire agencies negotiate (for those who are union) language into contracts permitting the use of volunteers once again. Just like it happened in Pa. during the 1980's in some of the area departments surrounding Pittsburgh. In a few cases, entire paid departments were disbanded and converted to all volunteer departments as there was just no monies to support a paid department. If it comes down to school vs. paid fire we all know where its going to go. Pray for the economy to recover folks.

I have no interest in discussing the emotional impact of suicide; just pointing out that there is an important human element that I felt you left out on your original post.

Point is, deaths, whether by suicide or accidental discharge, or by other means, are significant to those who've lost loved ones.

True, its insignificant, until its one of your own family members or loved ones.

Guess we agree to disagree.

Chris I agree with you on part of your post; in that fire-police are not replacements for police officers. But thats where it ends. Depending on how each department utilizes their fire-police units;aside from directing traffic, fire-police do assist with crowd control, keeping the fire ground safe for the firefighters, and contrary to what some in here say, they do prevent looting by keeping unauthorized people from entering structures/property; in addition to whatever lawful orders are given by the chief or IC. Additionally, aside from the basic fire police course, many fire police take additional training in justifible use of force, baton training and so forth. Furthermore I don't believe that police presence is necessary on every single forced entry into/onto property either; it should be left up to the incident commander to decide if he needs uniformed presence on location or if fire-police will be adequate. The police are already busy enough and understaffed as it is; if they are tied up at a fire/EMS scene where they are truly not needed, someone in distress who needs them more then we do will possibly be at further unnecessary risk.

Using your analogy, someone calling 911 for medical assistance for a sprained ankle would require a police dispatch; thus tying up a police unit over over a minor medical call..certainly no CPR will likely be needed. Furthermore, if its an EMS call, the paramedics/EMT's will be dispatched. For those of us who live in rural areas, you might wait for a police agency to respond in (not every town outside of urban of suburban areas can afford local police and thus the state or county police agency responds in) up to 20-25 minutes. To have police respond in under your analogy is not only unnecessary, its ludicrious and a waste of manpower, especially if another legitimate call comes in. And contrary to what you posted; while some VFD members might not have the stomach for EMS related activities, i think you'll find that overall a vast majority of volunteer FD members do in fact have the stomach for it, infact in my department a majority of our members have at least minimal training (CPR, CFR,EMT). There's just a very small handfull who don't have nor desire to have any EMS training. As far as your question as to whom the fire-police prevent from looting, generally its anyone who has no business being in the house, unless they are family members.

If your department has fire-police, there's no need to call for uniformed police unless you percieve a possible threat to EMS or firefighters. Aside from directing traffic, fire-police--who are sworn peace officers--can be used to prevent looting and can secure all non-criminal sites/locations.

Your absolutely right. It's going to get alot worse before it gets better.

If enough of the membership gets fed up enough, they'll simply go CORE membership; it'd be a nasty wake-up call for the union. IAFF really ought to re-think their position on this while they still can.

Hopefully the police are trained in CPR.

Goose, the fact of the matter is this; whether you or I agree with Obama's politics, he is now the President-elect; the Democrats still maintain control both houses of congress; that in and of itself is a clear mandate to do what they want to do and trust me when i say this, they will do what they want to do. You may recall when the Republicans controlled both houses when Bush (W) was President; they did what they wanted to and people said they had no mandate. Its just the way things are done in this country.

Obama had over a 4 million popular vote advantage; thats about 3.5 million more then Bush had in 2000. Its a clear mandate.

If we did; Bush would've been recalled.

Either way we have a new President-elect and perhaps we should follow Sen. McCains advice at his concession speech and try to work and give our support to President-elect Obama. So the best thing to do is to get over it and move on with our lives and and all work to make America a better place.

Ya beat me to the punch!

Does Greenburgh PD still have an auxilliary force? And if so, what duties are they relegated to?

I think each department needs to craft policy which works for that department. What works for department "A" may not work for department "B". In most departments, both the Commissioners and Chief know the personnel, their training, capabilities and people skills, so I think it should be left up to the departments to run themselves as they deem fit.

Sounds to me that some of the CPD members have too much time on their hands; one would think that they'd have better things to do then bust FD's for technicalities involving lights.

Were they pulled over by the state or local agency?