gamewell45

I don't think Putnam County wants to inherit Westchester's headaches.

I think its a good idea that they open it up to anyone who's interested; afterall knowledge is a good thing. We are constantly whining in these forums that many firefighters are woefully undertrained, so I think its a good idea when people take interest in taking courses like these, no matter what state they are from. If they start screening and doing the so-called "background checks", the program risks becomming elitist and I don't think thats what the government has in mind. Furthermore, from my experience, those who take these courses, do so with the mindset to learn; sure every so often you might get one or two people who's agenda's are not on learning, but I think for the most part most people's desire to learn is genuine. I've taken federal courses before and almost to the man and woman, they are all there to learn. Just my 2 cents.

I concur with you; it would be nice if EMS could be a municipal service, whether by the FD or 3rd Municipal service. Unfortunatley it all comes down to tax monies, which given the particular state of the economy, are in short supply right now. For any politiican to support this would be certain suicide for his/her political career and we all know how much they value their careers. Nothwithstanding, the public tends not to have too much sympathy for what pay and benefits employees receive since most of them are in the same boat and when they call 911, an ambulance shows up. The biggest uphill battle is convincing the public to buy into the concept of having the FD or 3rd agency provide the service. As it stands right now, the municipality/town/village has a contract with XYZ Ambulance to provide a certain level of service. Thats where it starts and thats where it ends; If they are unhappy with that Ambulance company when the contract expires, they hire a different company. They don't have to worry about paying salaries, benefits, etc. With a municipality/town/village FD or 3rd agency providing the services the whole concept changes. They now have the responsibility of paying the salaries (which normally go up every year), medical benefits (the cost of which normally increases every year) for the employees and their families, Vacation relief, sick pay, retirement, uniform fees, and other contractually mandated benefits and perks which unionized employees enjoy (this of course is assuming that the FD/3rd Agency employees unionize, which is more or less a given). Now lets not forget that you'll most likely have to hire an adminstrative staff to oversee/conduct billing, coordination with insurance companies, collection agencies, etc. And remember these people will have to have a benefits package much like their EMS worker counterparts as well. So when given a choice, its easy to see why many municipalities/towns/villages choose the private sector; its simply much easier to let the Ambulance company deal with the whole mess. Its also dependent upon basic economics; if the supply exceeds the demand, the monies paid to private sector EMS workers will be less then if the demand exceeded the supply. Right now it appears that there are more EMS workers then are required at least in certain counties and hence, lower salaries. Finally, in all fairness, I am not an EMS worker, I only work fire, but I'm looking at it as a taxpayer would and I think its very realistic to consider that others with no connection to the fire/EMS service would view it in this way. Like I mentioned earlier, you'd have to do good sell to the public and politicans to make this happen.

Sometimes youth sharing their knowledge and ideas with us can be a good thing; after all the youth are the future of the fire service.

I daresay what will most likely happen; if in fact it is part of the collective bargaining agreement between the city and the firefighters union where it spells out that the city has to pay the expenses, including alcoholic beverages, then it'll be a open and shut case and the bill will be paid in its entirety. However if the langauge is vague or not all encompasing then it'll go in front of an arbitrator who will hear what both sides have to present as evidence; review other cases of this type and magnitude; look at past practice and the notes of the prior negotiations so they can ascertain the "meeting of the minds" when the agreement was reached and then render a decision. Either way the firefighters lose. If the union prevails, the bill will get paid, but the city will paint the firefigthers & their union as greedy, unsophisticated public servants using money that could be well spent on worthy projects or programs rather then on alcohol during a rough economic climate the city is currently facing. If the city prevails, then their going to say that "we were right all along and the union forced us to spend monies on an arbitrator even tho' we told them they (the union) were wrong". Moreover the public will take a negative view no matter what the outcome because alcohol was involved. In retrospect, the union should have picked up the tab for the brews and chalked it off as money well spent to avoid negative public relations. Just my 2 cents.

If you contact the Board of Fire Commissioners, they'll be able to give you all the information you need in regards to the amounts of alarms they responded to and you'll know that the information will be accurate as opposed to getting it from someone who might not have the correct information.

My firehouse is a "dry" firehouse. Don't even think of bringing in a beer onto fire district property for consumption. You get caught, you will be disciplined. No district monies are spent on any alcohol for the firefighters; if its at a parade or inspection dinner, its paid for with monies donated for that cause. Thats why we do fundraisers and/or raffles.

I concur; taxpayer dollars should not be used to purchase alcohol.

ff101, very good point; I, like you, have suggested that the posters in here who have various conerns address them to their elected officials or fire district officers; to opine in here about how horrible things are in the fire service serves a very limited and narrow purpose; and while it never hurts to let others know how you feel, sometimes I feel that their are some in here who honestly believe that by coming in here and ranting, it'll be the cure all for most if not all of the fire service issues. Its not. But then again their are those who are agenda driven, irrespective of the agenda and it will continue until the moderators decide that enough is enough and close the particular thread in question.

Yup, time to close it. Nothing more to be gained by opining over this.

Chuck, You said Bedford "barely" covered a call? what do you mean? did they not get out or get out after whatever the prescribed amount of time is? Croton was unable to cover two calls? Were they already out on another call? The same for Peekskill; were they already out or was their bus sitting in the barn? Why don't you give us some more details. On a side note. are you involved with Fire/EMS where you live? If not why don't you consider joining and being part of the solution?

What I would suggest to you is that your bring this up at your fire company meeting and explain your position to them. If they insist on attending parades anyhow you can boycott parades by staying within the distict and man the station incase of an alarm. You can also refuse to be involved in pulling everything off the engine, cleaning them, testing them and making sure everything is perfect; afterall your a volunteer. Lead by example; they can't force you to do anything you don't want to.

Using your analogy, we could never leave town. not to shop, nor to visit relatives, nor go to work if you work outside of town, go to the movies...etc because we joined to protect the community. That's not what i joined the fire service for. I have other obligations and responsibilities aside from the fire department.

Well JFlynn, It just goes to show that you can learn something new everyday. Bet your glad you started this thread aren't you?? This is certainly earth-shattering news; maybe you should contact your local television station; maybe it'll make the 11 O'clock news!

You missed the entire thrust of the post . What may work for you in New Rochelle may not work for other departments.

Most people who attend parades plan to do so in advance since they know when its going to occur; its tough to plan for fires as you never know when they are going to occur.

JFlynn (hope thats better), perhaps the deafening silence is because the people who frequent this site don't have the information your seeking? Again, contacting the chiefs of the departments in question and then perhaps posting the results (which will let people know the responses) might help you achieve your goal??

Flynn, as a suggestion, why don't you contact the chiefs of the departments for the information you need rather then ask for it in this forum? It's quite possible that the people in here don't have all the information that you need or they could end up giving you the wrong information without knowing it.

Interesting website; they put their cards on the table, which is the right thing to do. While the Board of Fire Commissioners are charged with providing adequate fire protection, ultimately it falls on the shoulders of the first responders, which according to the website are primarily career fire fighters at least from the outset; it was disturbing to read the narrative that if the career FF is alone and they have a job, he hooks up; packs up; puts the truck in pump gear and goes charging into the structure in question alone. This in and of itself is inherently dangerous and subsequently could have disasterous consequences to the FF if he gets into trouble. If the local union hasn't brought this to the attention of the Board, they should. As we were taught in our fire training classes, no one should ever enter a building alone. While I realize that there are life and death situations that could arise, this is a terrible situation to place any fire fighter, whether career or volunteer under. The Local Union really needs to publicize this issue through their International's Safety Committee and begin a PR campaign through a PR Agency to make the locals aware of this. While I don't live in the fire district, I drive through Lake Mohegan on a regular basis and this is the first time I've heard that there is a staffing problem of this magnitude. Making the public totally aware of this issue is the only way to get it resolved, unless you vote the current commissioners out of office and vote in ones who understand the issues. Just my thoughts on it.

The first thought that comes to mind is; under your scenario, where is the money supposed to come from to pay for the hiring of more paid FF's? Remember we are in a recession; towns and villages are finding that monies they expected to collect are way off from projections in many cases. When it comes down to hire more FF's or keep taxes down, the average citizen will most likely choose the latter. ISO ratings notwithstanding, perhaps consolidation might be a temporary fix to the problem but again its a tough sell due to the "empire" syndrome that many Fire Districts suffer from. That being said i'm a little perplexed about volunteers FF not liking that they are being restricted by the "laws that keep them safe". Are you making your statement based on discussions held with every single fire fighter who's a member of Lake Mohegan? Or did you just talk to a handful? And did you talk with every single paid FF or just a couple who felt they didn't get much respect from the volunteers? I'd find it very difficult to believe that "every" single volunteer firefighter felt that they were being restricted by the "laws that keep them safe". Finally, as a resident of the Lake Mohegan Fire District you are certainly entitled to proper fire protection; I'd suggest, unless you've already done so, that you attend meetings of the Board and express your concerns to them so if for nothing else at least they know that there are citizens who are concerned about the quality of fire protection that they receive.

Very good solid advice and it makes perfect sense.

Two things that divide people in this world: Religion and Politics.

No matter who runs for President most people always regret it. I remember how everyone complained that the last Bush was horrible because they said he was incompetent; everyone hated Clinton because of his womanizing and lying ways; Bush 1 was reviled because of the so-called "read my lips" syndrome, Reagan for contra-gate/ATC isse, Carter for the Tehran blunder, Ford for being unable to make a decision; Nixon, the Watergate issue and Johnson, the Vietnam debacle. Seems like Eisenhower was the only one to escape unscathed. The point is, no matter who is president, people will find fault right or wrong with whatever they do. Whoever replaces Obama, whether it is in 3 years or another 7 will face the same criticism and scrutiny as Obama and those before him. That's politics folks!

The NBA was historically "majority white" until the early 1970's. The Boston Celtics were the only team to be able to field a "white" starting lineup as late as 1986.

May she rest in peace.