Mark Z

Sweet Looking Mack!

She just got refurbed again last year. Here she is in her latest incarnation..sad to say after another 10 12- years, probably her last too

How about etiquette in general? How many parades have you been to where you see guys in uniform with their shirt untucked, tie falling off, hat all crooked, drinking beer? And some ff's wonder why the publics perseption isn't always favorable. Ever see military personnel look like that? Nope, because there is respect for the uniform and what it stands for.

Sadly much of the fire service etiquette seems to be slowly fading away. And those of us who have been around awhile are to blame. If we look the other way when members act disrespectfully or distastefully then the fault lies with us, the "older guys" who should know better. I more often than not find myself at odds with both the younger members and the admin of my FD, as I always speak up and see to it that the nonsense stops when members Facebook or Twitter or act disrespectfully at solemn or formal occasions. When such situations arise I hear the standard lament, "it's not 1980 anymore, it's a different time, you can't expect guys to act like they did years ago, wah wah wah, blah blah blah. I'm so f><king tired of that lame ass BS excuse. As I see it here's the deal, there is a right way and there is a wrong way to conduct yourself when in uniform and that goes doubly so for when we're present at funerals or other significant events. I think many will agree, but I also think that beyond agreeing we have to act when we see the wrong way happening...if we don't who will. I joined my first FD at 16 and believe me, my friends and I were hellions in the extreme. The older members made it clear what was and what was not acceptable....just as it had been made clear to them before us...and they made sure we learned exactly what that meant. I truly am thankful I had men like that around to show me the way...and sometimes do more than just show...because I came out a better person and a far better fireman for it. No matter how many volumes of the latest new age, progressive, politically correct management theory drivel is shoved down my throat I KNOW that what I learned and how I learned it is what works best and is the right thing. Society might be crumbling all around us and there may not be a helluva lot we can do about it outside our world, but in our world we still have control...so when guys need straightening out it's up to us to do just that. 10, 15, 20 years from now those same guys will be thankful we did

This was a bittersweet image to see, I recognized to many of those names but I hope it serves the district for many years and is as good a truck as she looks right now!

This was a bittersweet image to see, I recognized to many of those names but I hope it serves the district for many years and is as good a truck as she looks right now!

This was a bittersweet image to see, I recognized to many of those names but I hope it serves the district for many years and is as good a truck as she looks right now!

You should be happy with the Lifeline, Waterford where I was a volunteer before becoming disabled, has had quite a few of them over the years and currently has all six of the units in service from Lifeline.

Why blue you ask, I'll keep it short and the next few posts are off topic but it will answer your question
Back in 1988 while attending the NYS show at the old Concord Resort Hotel we came across an Engine that was built by Pierce for Peru, NY, an upstate FD that was painted Bright Regatta Blue or as we called it Pepsi Blue and our crew that was there that day really thought the Engine was very sharp, I took several pictures of it that day. After we returned and knowing that our 1974 tanker was out at Pierce for a refurbish we decided to share the photos with the members at the next monthly meeting and the membership voted to have our Tanker painted the same color, no other reason than that, the rest of the purchases after that have been the blue/white scheme. Here is the engine from Peru are our vehicles that followed (some of the photos are older and not the greatest)
The Peru engine that got it started

Our Tanker that was refurbished by Pierce in 1988 and first blue vehicle (Retired when new tanker purchased in 2007)

1989 Pierce Dash (retired)

The Dash on scene

1997 Pierce (Went out of service this week as a trade in on the new Engine

Rescue One light rescue 69-51 (photo courtesy of Ed Harvey)

Smeal tanker 69-31

Firematic BRAT 69-62

PL Custom Ambulance 69-71 which will be retired in a few months as we have a new rig being built by Lifeline

Pierce Mini Pumper which was originally red but was painted as shown when I was Chief (retired when we purchased the BRAT in 2009, photo courtesy of the SIGNMAN)

True, there is a lot of money getting thrown at recruitment and retention through SAFER and other programs, but there's no hard research into how VFDs can recruit and keep members, so there's very few vetted "best practices" out there.
But as I've said about a billion times on here: Most FDs in the northeast have at least one college within 30 minutes drive. "Bunkie" style programs work really well if managed properly. Every college has kids who were volunteers back home and every college has kids interested in the medical field who would love a chance to get some EMS experience. Right now that's the best recruitment system I'm seeing for volunteers that doesn't involve paid-per-call.

Mark,
Looks good and I hope it serves you well and best of all, I am not around to put a scratch on it!

One Word! YUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCCKKKYYYYYYY!

Ulster Hose Co 5, Ulster County,put these 2 Ford F550/Seagrave 4x4 minis in service.
E61-21, j/n=9P075, known as Rescue 2, has a 500 gpm Hale/360/0

R61-14, j/n=9P076, Rescue 1, 4x4 is set up as a rescue, jaws,lite tower, etc. and no pump.

I prefer the old, but to each his own.

While I completely understand the issue, I have a hard time sending 18 year olds off to war but withholding any other right for a more mature age. You can be trusted with all sorts of weaponry, but cannot be trusted to drink alcohol or drive big trucks? Now, should all FD"s be required to have a comprehensive driving program that ensures drivers of any age are mature enough and possess the proper attitude? Of course.
It's just a basic fundamental flaw in the US's attitude toward men and women of military service age, that I see.

I'll contribute this. My dad never had an accident in his life. He never had a driving lesson and never passed a test. He started driving heavy vehicles (dump trucks etc.) near the end of WW2 when he was 14; he was just told to get in and drive it.
There are idiots and bad drivers and people who shouldn't be trusted with a lawn mower of every age. IMHO older people, some of them anyway, just tend to be better at hiding this.
You should assign drivers after looking at their record, their experience, their temperament, their personality, and their driving skills - all over a good length of time - and you should be assigning them prudently and erring on the side of caution. You shouldn't be looking at the calendar.
If there's a problem, or perceived problem, with younger drivers, the problem is in their selection, training, and supervision, not in the drivers themselves; the military manage to teach younger drivers to drive all kinds of vehicles in combat.
Mike

I must disagree as well. Im 18 and got my permit at 16 on the dot. I've been driving pick up trucks, plowing, and using the same mirrors fire apparatus are configured with for 2 years (obviously thats not alot compared to alot of other members on this site).However, I think it all depends on the person behind the wheel. In my department you are required to take EVOC before you can become a driver, and that is something I agree with. As they state in that class on the first day, some people are meant to drive and others aren't. I don't think age has anything to do with it. But maturity, patience, professionalism, and skill does.

They should be ashamed of themselves! The kid screwed up and it cost him his life! I wasn't there, but would wager most of us would have reacted the same way the officer did and I won't second guess his actions. I have children and would hate to see anything happen to them but don't see how this helps anything. Hang in there Officer Hess!

This is a ridiculous statement. What you are referring to is a combination department, not a career department. The career member in question was almost certainly directed to drive the apparatus to the parade by his volunteer "superiors", who very probably refer to him (with intent and purpose) as "driver", not "Firefighter".
Kudos to the many level headed, volunteers who care about their community and have had the courage to criticize in this thread the disgraceful practice of taking apparatus out of their district for a parade.
I do have an agenda about lots of issues. One of my issues (concerns) is the ridiculous and hypocritical practice of bringing apparatus to parades outside of the district. I hear constantly about the need for funding and incentives to recruit to fill the diminishing ranks of volunteer firefighters who will "save the community the enormous cost of a paid fire department" (btw always using the word "paid" as opposed to "career"...this too is done with intent and purpose)...It is also incessantly and inanely regurgitated that "volunteers and career guys are the same and provide the same level of service"...The practice of bringing apparatus and a large percentage of members to parades outside district flies directly in the face of these statements.
It is apparent that this is a legitimate issue and it is not unfair basing of volunteer by career members. Many volunteer firefighters are ethical and have common sense enough to realize that this archaic practice no longer has a place in the fire service if "we", yes "we" (career and volunteer) take the oaths we have sworn to our community's seriously. Many volunteer firefighters have stated so in this thread and in other threads previously...
Are we beating a dead horse? Absolutely not! The problem still exists! Any avenue available to expose this problem for what it is should be taken. Many people outside of the fire service are unaware of this situation and many inside of the fire service are complacent and / or resistant to change. So, those of us who have an agenda will repeat our mantra...most others will remain on the sidelines, some may feel inspired to join in and speak up for positive change, and of course we will always have those individuals who will rationalize, attack the messenger, or blame shift.
Eventually though, apparatus in out of district parades will go the way of horse drawn engines, wooden ladders, and pullup rubber boots (Lord, how I miss those!)
Hopefully, the discarding of this practice will happen as the result of rational, forward thinking fire service leaders and not as a consequence of a high- profile tragedy.

Where in the definition of "Volunteer" does it say lack responsibility? It seems to me to be the ever growing "attitude" within volunteers. Whether it is a new mandate for training , or a change in operations for better overall function of your home dept. It seems to me that the "excuse" of "I'm a volunteer, why should I have to take OSHA," or "I'm a volunteer why should I have to be at my ambulance when I am rostering that time." The last time I checked when I became a volunteer at the age of 16, I joined because it was something I enjoyed doing and wanted to help. Just because you don't receive any type of monetary payments does not mean you cant uphold yourself to the same standards as everyone else. I for one feel that without changing that outlook, volunteers will be a rapidly dying breed. Now for those that don't me, and may think I am "voly bashing" get your facts straight. I have been in my dept for 10 years, and put as many hours as any other active voly. I have not forgotten where I came from, and continue to provide the service and have the attitude as of a volunteer just as I would at work. The main objective of this topic is to answer the following ques. and agree or disagree with the above statement, (Because I am a volunteer I don't have to uphold responsibility.) Is this attitude moral oriented? Is it something that can be changed? If so how?

If I could rep this post a thousand times, I would.
I'm so sick of this nonsense excuse for guys acting unprofessionally. They want the benefits of being considered an "employee" without the responsibilities. Like it or not you are in a position of public trust and you are held to a higher standard than the average citizen. And these are the same guys that say "career or volunteer doesn't matter, we're all the same." Legally, yes, you are the same. But you will only be viewed as equal by the general public when you act like a professional. That means training, that means demeanor, that means respect for your uniform and equipment. If you don't have any respect for yourself and your job then you can't expect anyone else to respect you.
"With great power comes great responsibility" -Uncle Ben

If the CPAT were required for the volunteer fire service it would cripple the volunteer fire service; I am interior qualified in my dept and I don't think I could pass the CPAT, and at my age( 51) don't even have a clue about setting up the kind of physical conditioning program it would take to get in shape to pass it! But I also realize that unless absolutely neccesary, I have no business on an interior attack anyway.

If the CPAT were required for the volunteer fire service it would cripple the volunteer fire service; I am interior qualified in my dept and I don't think I could pass the CPAT, and at my age( 51) don't even have a clue about setting up the kind of physical conditioning program it would take to get in shape to pass it! But I also realize that unless absolutely neccesary, I have no business on an interior attack anyway.

I much as I would love to volunteer WITH the FDNY, there is NO WAY IN H**L I would ever stab them in the back and volunteer in order to strikebreak and I would bet that most volunteers feel the same way. (I hope!)

LOL. What about if someone read my post again and know what terms mean what. If there is rigor or lividity those are signs of OBVIOUS DEATH..hence BLS personnel do not need to start resuscitation efforts. Therefore..if you don't start any resuscitation efforts...you cannot TERMINATE them. Clearer now for ya?
So again...no BLS should not be able to terminate resusciation efforts in the field being they are not trained to nor do their AED's more often do not show EKG rhythems. Which by the way the protocol states that an AED is only to be placed on an unresponsive patient for all you LP 12 as AED's and are putting leads on patients.
Also I for the most part do not have the ambulance crew use lights and sirens to the hospital with a cardiac arrest. There is nothing I'm not doing that they are not going to do at the ER and 9 times out of 10 they call it within several minutes of arrival. Not worth the risk or on the high priority "True Emergency" scale.