TimesUp

If the fire is in your district, town or city does'nt that dept have an obligation to fight the fire. Those home owners have been paying thier taxes which pay your salery or for your equipment etc. Of course if there is a peice of apperatus which is closer than your first due it would be a good idea to start it out. The problem comes when both depts respond in full. Now two depts are tied up and someone's district is left uncovered. Bad allocation of manpower. Or if you dept relies on the other to cover a certain area. When there is a fire and you depend on them to respond you come to find out they can't respond for any number of reasons. It becomes more than the closest company goes, there are some logistcs and lots of constant communication involved.

Any idea on what his dutys might be?

Jp4+delay in response+low manning=trouble for the SOB's A dedicated ARFF crew at the airport would take away the delayed response, thats a start.

So its a good idea as long as Firefighters are'nt hired to do it.

So you think it would be good to have a deicated arff crew at the airport?

Having personal cross trained is a great idea. But with different shifts and vacation to consider, not to mention sick days are the customers really well protected? With the volume of flights increasing the chance of an accident also increases. I don't think that increasing the protection by having arff staffing should upset anybody. Having a crew on site would be best in case of an aircraft emergency. Lets not squabble about who's incharge. Or "do you know what that will cost" I'm sure the same guy that complains about cost would be the same guy signing up for the job. Yes, a plane could crash anywhere, but its where all the flights arrive or depart that should be the best preparred for an aircraft emergency.

Any particular reason why this would be going backwards. Seems like moving fowards to many that have posted. Is this an example of the resistance that comes with change?

From what I understand it will be parked at wcdes. If needed it will respond to where ever it might be needed. Just like the haz-mat team.

Accidents happen....get better soon.

Chris, I think you missed the point. YES, there is only one IC. The break down comes when the other Chiefs arrive all adding there bit of statagy. This is where the breakdown happens, and yes it does happen. Stratagys change , tactics change all without the IC being aware. This is when things become dangerous. As far as sector chiefs? This was a term used and some places still is. They for example would be responsible for instance the #3 exposure and any efforts that are being made back there. Although with nims this title might not exsist but the job wil still be assigned to someone. Most likely at a multi alarm fire this person will be a Chief.

It sounds like however you put it that there will be alot of Chiefs at any given M/A fire. The primary dept will most likely have plenty of their own Chiefs there. Than for any mutual aid called more chiefs will soon follow. Some of these incoming depts have SOP's as per their dutys at another dept's fire. I think this is where the overall command stucture on a fireground starts to break down. Where we go from having one IC to having several. All with good intentions probably. If the dept recieving mutual aid already has sector chiefs do incoming dept need to bring there own? If the incoming Engine,truck or tanker already has an officer, Is'nt it then his job to ensure the saftey of his Co. It could be its a matter of communication, in which case having a member of your dept at the command post would be a great idea. This might be a matter of self dispatching as well which has been covered on here before.

I see this all to often. A Chief or some other ranked Supervisor will show up and their dept. is'nt even there on mutual aid. Sometimes it turns into a real buff event. It also leads to some confusion when they decide to get themselves involved in decision making. All the white helmets all over the place makes the scene very confusing. I think they might forget about their obligation to their own dept. and the citizens of their town, city, or district. Or maybe they can't control themselves?

Yaa!!!! What he said! Theres no such thing as Santa anyway, so get off the rig.

So now the roof is vented. Is it vented above the fire? If so the fire should vent itself up and out of the structure thus preventing horizontal extention. If someone decides this would be a good oppertunity to put a master stream into the vent opening they would be defeating the purpose. The stream could be pushing the fire to other parts of the roof or structure. Sometimes this is part of a strategy depending on the structure. If so you would want to position your master streams in a direction that would protect the uninvolved part of the stucture. Never position your stream as to push fire to uneffective parts of the structure. Take this into consideration when dealing with a roof that has collasped and the fire is well vented. For an effective interior attack a well vented roof helps with advanceing the line and lets the Engine crew work in a better enviorment. However vent above or behind them and you created a bad situation. Remember the fire is supposed to vent out of the hole you just made. If positioned properly this will keep fire from extending to other parts of the structure. As a sidenote nothing above is related to the recent fire in Greenville.

Venting prior to putting water on the fire. Depends on where you work. Some departments can accomplish this at the same time. Other department might only have drivers and verticle ventilation might not take place or be an option. For some fires its ideal for others its not considered. Even if you did'nt vent verticle, after a while the fire might vent itself vertical giving you the option of hitting it from above so the direction from which master streams are used must be choosen carefully. Also at which time any interior personal must be removed and the added weight of the thousands of gallons of water must be taken into consideration. Alot of fires go out without verticle ventilation and horizontal ventilation will suffice. As far as master streams I like to see them operated low to high but have seen the use of high to low and the negitive results. I've done and seen alot of roof venting in my career and have seen it done wrong and right. When done right it saves property and makes quick work of extinguishment.

No need for me to go on a rant...But your veiw is askew. Very impressive dd-214, why would you ever get out.

So you've been watching John Wayne movies lately. They are pretty good. CNN has had good coverage of the war in Iraq since day one of the ground war. I must of missed the part of where the Marines went in and killed all the bad guys and the the Army occupied. As far as being a decisive and destructive force . Don't tell that to the guys of the 1st Infantry div. that there not. They might disagree with you.

They go in and kill bad guys and turn it over to the Army? What war have you been watching?

Drained the Pump and all valves on the Engine today. If you're responding to a report of fire you can drop the tank before you go out the door.

I don't think the yiddish accent is offensive at all. Somebody is way too senseitive.

So you don't crawl all over the place know were the stairs are before you go in. Look for a side door, the basement stairs should be there. If its a 2.5 story the stairs are probaly on the same side as the front door. If you can Identify the type of house you will know where the stairs are. The rest L-12 covered already. But always get the line in the front door to protect the means of egress. Basement fires take alot of coordination between co's.

I can tell you were the front door and windows are. Could be a good place for a peicing nozzle and some saws.

So far on this thread there is nothing Career vs. Volley. Only thing I see is Jason trying to figure out why guys are getting burned out. He is relating to when he was a volley. Everytime someone wants to speak from a career perspective does'nt make it career vs volley.

"Delay notifying the fire dept until more than one device is activated" What if there's only one device in the area? What if it takes 10 minutes for another device to activate? I don't think the local gov. knows what they sound like? What was that old thread "Check and advise" Stuff like this is what creates delays in response.

I've gone on stuck occupied elevators where we removed the occupents. They were still alive so was this a rescue? So a removel might not always mean the person is expired. They were just in a place they could'nt get out of.