Paul J DeBartolomeo

New Haven's L-2 is a fairly new Seagrave Tiller, as is New London's L-25. Rumor has it that Norwalk CT is in the market for a Seagrave TDA. I wish there were more out there its the true symbol of a fire truck.

I got to use the TNT system at a recent class and was very impressed with it. Very powerful system. I was particularly impressed with the multiple outlet ports allowing for multiple tool operations off of one rather light weight power source. Its currently being field tested by the rescue companies in the city and all the reviews have been very positive. I have also used Hurst & Holmatro quite extensively and feel they are both quality products. Each system has their inherent pro's and cons.

Understood that a mistake was made, but to use the defense of I thought it was on the sidewalk. This was the chauffer side of the rig, where the controls for the outriggers are located. He was definately standing right there as the jacks went down. I got some other photos from the cfa that suggest the boom was maxed out in order to reach the house, as roofsopen suggest maybe ground ladders should of been considered in this situation. As far as setting up, a good LCC should only need 1 guy on the outboard side to spot for him, using the whole company is a waste of resources imo, those members could be used for more important things Im sure.

God Bless your father and the men he served with, truly the greatest generation, and may God continue to bless America and those Brave men & women who protect us & our way of life.

aka: "Creative Writing Workshop 101"

Can I ask a question concerning this very split discussion. It is well known on this site and generally throughout the fire service that we lose on average 100 F.F. annually. In my opinion and Im sure everyone elses thats 100 too many. Of those 100 lost how many are a direct result of injuries sustained while actively involved in structural firefighting. Im not trying to lessen the other LODD's as they are equally tragic, just trying to make a point. Of the 100 lost, I believe some where in the range of 30 are killed while fighting fire. Are we to assume that these 30 or so brave men and woman died because they were operating unsafely.Can we honestly say that they would be alive today if only they were more careful at that last fire and conducted a more thorough risk analysis. Risk analysis is great and establishing certain guidelines on how to operate is important too, but at the end of the day the fact remains that things happen at fires that are largely unpredictable and sadly tragedy is often the result. In my 11 plus years as a career fireman I have had the unfortunate duty to see friends die at fires, and never once did I attribute their death to a reckless or careless act on their part or that of someone on scene. I simply resigned myself to the fact that this is an inherintly dangerous and unpredictable business we are in and sometimes things happen that are completely unforseen and unavoidable. Statistically speaking considering the total number of responses nation wide, and the number of structural fires, somewhere in the range of 500,000, as a whole we are not doing that bad. Personally I feel 1 life lost is too many, but I am realistic and know that we will lose people every year. I know I will lose another brother at work, its simply the nature of the beast. I continue to train hard and exercise caution wherever possible but remain fully aware of the inherent dangers that lie within.

Food, soda, ice? 1 key element missing considering this is a FF barbecue!

Good post Booger, very direct and to the point. Seems like yesterday when you walked through the door and got your orange sheild. how longs it been?

That show is an embarassment. Im embarassed that it attempts to depict life in the FDNY. It is so far from the truth on so many levels that the rigs and their light bars is the least of concerns. Who cares?

According to Tarzia she might be singing a differet tune!

We carry 100' of 3.5 for our ladder pipe & a few rolled lenghts of 1 3/4 & 2 1/2 o our rig. Never seen it used or heard of any one using it though.

Joe were those members or employees that you refer to?

To Matt P. & Cogs It is nice to read insightful, well thoughtout, & courteous discussion on this thread for once. Its obvious you both have your opinions but it seems niether of you has lost sight of the big picture. If only all discussions and negotiaions could go so well, maybe someday. As far as he negativity towards the GFD, in talking to several people within the system, it stems from the fact that they dont routinely get out the door for runs yet they are fully funded. Whereas some of the other depts are operating on a shoestring budget yet they cover their runs. It seems to be politics at its best, we will fund you, make a big deal about training you, but responses are optional. How long before their inactivity becomes an issue to justify more manning or another rig in that station? Just an outsiders view based on what Ive heard, not throwing any stones at either side. To Noula, your ideas may work in theory, but at recent incidents it hasnt been the case.

I noticed a young Terry Hatton working in R2 in some of those pics, RIP. Great shots but too much Brooklyn not enough Harlem

I believe there is a class being offered in airbags at this years FDIC conference with lots of hand on opportunity.

The only reason I ask is because we have debated entry techniques on this site. This is yet another reason why I use the Irons on all forced entry runs, they make a hell of alot of noise. As was stated dont know if would of made a difference hear but it may to someone some day. Using the ram or thru the lock are good but you better clearly announce yourself. I know sometimes we send a guy in off the fire escape, not a big fan for this very reason. Someone coming in from a window could easily be mistaken for a criminal. Condolences to the fallen Brother and the elderly gentleman involved

Anyone know how they gained entry?

Is it possible the heating system was changed over from a hot air sysyem? Possibly some renovations occured and this was never addressed?

A question for the MFD Probie or anyone else from Milan. Same fire, same response, same manning, same supply, but no fit5. What would the tactics of been? I think you would of immeadiately streched the first line and operated as TSull and others described. We cant get caught up on the latest and greatest gimics that come along and lose site of basic Firefighting. This was a standard structural fire, that could of been handled with stardard tactics. Well vented, fire showing, no great shakes for an aggressive and well trained engine company. Save the toy for the tough ones, and get in there already.

MFD I understand your opinions and you make some valid points. Manpower and suffcient water supply are always the difference makers on any fire so the fact that you guys were thinking about both is great. We must remember what we can and cant do as a firefighting force. We also must take into account what we have on scene and what we can accomplish. A 1 room fire in a P.D. can most certinly be put out with tank water or less. As John Salka has said many times " if you cant put out 2-3 rooms with your tank your obviously doing something wrong". Looking at those pics I am quite certain that fire could of been extinguished without using "the new toy" without losing the entire home in the process.

Capt. Benz Thanks for the detailed info. Thats interesting how the bays were modified to act a s a flue system, what a way to have rapid undected fire spread. The 3 things you mentioned happening simoutaneously would have probably had no negative effects if they occured independently of each other. Thats what amazes me about this business anything can happen at any given time. Again, thanks for the info definately a learning experience, and a speedy recovery to the injured Brother.

Im having a hard time understanding what took place here. Ive heard it described as a fire in the bsmt, a fire traveling the duct work, a mini backdraft, & a backdraft. Can any of the brothers from New Rochelle who were on scene describe in detail exactly what took place, and how the injured brother got caught up in it please.

MFD just curious about your post. It gave you several minutes to establish and agressive interior attack and prevented a total loss. From the pics it looks like a 1 room fire, why would you say this would of been a total loss without the fit5. Give yourselves some credit. I dont think it would have taken you several minutes to stretch and operate a line at this fire, and I think you guys would have kept it to the area of origin with some minor extension possible unless there was a serious manpower or supply issue that was not mentioned. Just curious of the decision making process here. I understand you thought the place was occupied and you had a well involved situation but it concerns me that the oveall opinion is that this would of been a total loss if you didnt have the Fit5. Modern technology should never take the place of a well trained and agressive group of Firefighters, if it does we are all in trouble.

I think there is some indirect proof that members being completly encapsulated in PPE has led to fatalities and severe burn injuries. Members have found themselves deep in a bldg and been caught in a flashover they never saw coming. Am I saying that having the hood down would have made a difference, who knows, but if they began to feel a great deal of heat and their ears began to tingle maybe they would of reacted. I personally don my hood and usually keep it in the down position when working in the ladder company. I feel I can quage conditions as I conduct my search and attempt to locate the seat of the fire. Sometimes conditions are such that the only sense we can rely on is the degree of heat coming from a direction of travel (fire proof bldgs for ex.) Personal preference I quess but I have never had a major issue. When working in an engine company operating the line the hood is up and the flaps are down to protect against the steam. I am not debating the effectivness of our PPE, but I feel in some instances its too good and can get guys in trouble, especially newer guys who lack the ability to read conditions on the fireground. The gear makes them feel invinsible and they march into situations, unknowingly at times, completly encapsulated and oblivious to their surroundings.

SPFC that sounds like an outstanding agility course you have set up. How long does it take the average FF to complete a circuit(one pass) and what is the percentage of guys that can complete 2 passes on 1 cylinder. Do you allow outsiders to go through it, I would love to try it. With no one watching of course